It's official, Devil May Cry fans are the worst fans ever

JellySlimerMan

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AgentLampshade said:
Nieroshai said:
Entitled, much? If you aren't represented by the comment, IT WASN'T ABOUT YOU.
I'm a DMC fan. The OP is talking about DMC fans. I am (mis)represented by the comment. What on Earth are you talking about entitlement for?
Because "entitlement" is the magic word that solves all arguments. Just like how "Artistic Integrity" is the magic word to be immune to all criticism.

And since you are a DMC fan, can you explain what is the theme of the series, and the theme of Dante personality and strugles that (somehow) isnt in the new DmC?
 

DioWallachia

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bug_of_war said:
Ok. Take your time off the forum so you can have a clear mind before seeing the long ass videos. Also, dont forget this one:


And to save the text on a notepad so it doesnt get lost in a worst case scenario (Like @JellySlimerMan said)
 

shadow skill

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JellySlimerMan said:
AgentLampshade said:
Nieroshai said:
Entitled, much? If you aren't represented by the comment, IT WASN'T ABOUT YOU.
I'm a DMC fan. The OP is talking about DMC fans. I am (mis)represented by the comment. What on Earth are you talking about entitlement for?
Because "entitlement" is the magic word that solves all arguments. Just like how "Artistic Integrity" is the magic word to be immune to all criticism.

And since you are a DMC fan, can you explain what is the theme of the series, and the theme of Dante personality and strugles that (somehow) isnt in the new DmC?
The theme rests on the distinction between demons and humans being that human beings can care about beings other than themselves. In fact it is this ability to care for and about others that makes Dante more powerful than most other demons aside from possibly Mundus. DmC not only removes Dante's biological connection to humanity, it never once indicates that the capacity to care for others is what makes Dante strong. In this game it is pure genetics that allows him to stand up to Mundus, nothing more, nothing less. The title loses what little meaning it had in the previous games.
 

Toasty Virus

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Liked the original DmC's [I discount 4 because it was fucking shit and tolerate 2] and I thought the new one was cool.

Yeah I think it would've worked better as a new IP but as much as people whine, the original DmC's are still there so do what I'm doing and play them again :D.
 

JellySlimerMan

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shadow skill said:
The theme rests on the distinction between demons and humans being that human beings can care about beings other than themselves. In fact it is this ability to care for and about others that makes Dante more powerful than most other demons aside from possibly Mundus. DmC not only removes Dante's biological connection to humanity, it never once indicates that the capacity to care for others is what makes Dante strong. In this game it is pure genetics that allows him to stand up to Mundus, nothing more, nothing less. The title loses what little meaning it had in the previous games.
But dont you find that, only BIOLOGICALLY, you can care about everything BUT yourself? sounds as stupid like the Always Chaotic Evil races of Dungeon & Dragons. It doesnt matter if you raise an orc to be a good person, the evil is in their veins and there is nothing you can do about it. It will stab you and rape your corpse because its evil.

Also, in DmC, Dante not only cares about humanity even more than Vergil by the endgame, he actually cares about the human Kat and fights the final boss for the freedom of all humanity. And ends up having the white hair permanently.
 

JellySlimerMan

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Atmos Duality said:
JellySlimerMan said:
Because that is not hypocritical at all, isnt it? we say that a politician SHOULDNT judge ALL gamers for the actions of a mentally defient moron who killed people and liked COD, all while gamers say to each other how horrendous they are for the actions of a single fan of DMC.

Nop. Totally different things, this case is completely different.
Strawman Argument.
Is it? or encapsulates everything about this thread?

Judging ALL the people of ONE group just because ONE individual did something bad, is:

A)NOT OK, when non gamers judge all gamers when ONE idiot killed people and liked COD.

B)OK, IF gamers do it to their own sub groups, that are judged by the actions of ONE individual.
 

bug_of_war

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DioWallachia said:
...but if you insist, here are the shortest ones that deal with a fraction of the retcons

DioWallachia said:
Ok. Take your time off the forum so you can have a clear mind before seeing the long ass videos. Also, dont forget this one:


Alright, you want me to go through these bit by bit. Fine, can do.

Retcons: Already explained my opinion on the ammo change.

Medi Gel: Healing with it came back in ME3 and was fused with regeneration, thus meaning you could heal yourself up mid battle when you're in tight moments. How does it heal Legion? How does it get through Tali's suit? This is a game, they take liberties. No it doesn't make sense lore wise, but it's a gameplay mechanic that works for every other character so it would break the flow of the game if you suddenly were no longer able to heal Tali or Legion. In fact, it would probably stop players from using them as squad mates.

N7 armour: Same as above, gameplay mechanic, liberties etc etc.

Joker's disease: He basically says his whole lower body is broken in the first game, and that his level of severity can range to the severe. Thus you can assume that it could get worse and spread, and if his body is unable to repair or upkeep his bones then the upgrades Shepard can get could have the potential of doing more damage. this is mostly assumptions, but they are how I personally justify this. to each their own.

The cooldown rate: Gameplay mechanic, it makes it so you can'tgo up tougher enemies and just spam everything you got at them. It makes you have to play a little more strategically.

Genophage: Remember, Wrex is a Krogan, and Krogan aren't known for being scientist or doctors. Mordin on the otherhand is highly intelligent even for a Salarian, and also worked on the modification of the genophage, I'm pretty sure he would have a better understanding then Wrex. As for the stillborns and what not, the Krogan live on a harsh planet and live harsh life styles, there are bound to be stillborns/miscariage, and the fact that most Krogan have given up hope for their species suggests that many Krogan are not trying to keep their species alive.

ME2 worse ending: Shepard never actually seemed to be a super fit human in the first 2 games. Soldiers of today (at least in Australia) have to be able to run 2.4 kms in 10 minutes JUST to become an infantry grunt. Shepard is supposed to be the elite of the elite 30 year old human male in a future where we live to 150, yet in ME1 and 2 he can barely run 10 meters. As for being unable to pull himself up, he was kinda getting shot at by 50 or so Collectors, and there is a noticible ecplosion that hits Joker and Shepar as he's being pulled up.

Humans being special: I always thought this was stupid, but people have said the writers wrote it like this so as that it would make sense why after hundreds of cycles the Reapers finally found the perfect species to counteract the Dark Energy. I also agree that the in-game explanation is poor, but I think most of the writing in Bioware games is average so yeah. Side note, I would have thought the Vorcha were more genetically diverse seeing as how the codex explains that they can basically adapt to any conditions.

Liara's personality change: I dunno...I guess she grew up after 2 years. I never liked Liara so yeah...

Virmire survivor: I agree that Shepard was half baked in his explanation.


Onto the newest video, I don't see how the ending immedietly looses the 'art' part of the game. Seeing as how it is part of the entire piece, it is in fact a part of the artistic experience, hence forth it is art. With the part where he says he was unsure what to do in the ending when it came to shooting the tube, how in the hell did he NOT know what to do? Honestly, I thought the cutscene made it pretty clear what you had to do to 'activate' each options ending. You see Anderson shooting the tube, and he was an advocate for destroying the Reapers. You see TIM holding onto the two blue beam things, and he was an advocate for controlling the Reapers. The only ending that doesn't exactly give a clear indication is Synthesis, but even then it's not too hard to figure out. It's frustrating for those of us who had basic level intelligence to see people unable to put two and two together and realise, "If I want the Reapers dead, I shoot the tube like Anderson did".

As for how shooting it works, I got no answer and not even any assumptions. The condescending talking down to he mentions in the video seems to have come from people who enjoyed the game, and not Bioware. Hell, he shows a clip of the guy from IGN who reviewed the game while speaking about this. Yes, he should have thought more clearly and not come out and said,"You're just mad cause Shepard is dead" but that's just an example of someone whom liked the game not thinking about other peoples opinions, similarly how people who hate the ending don't think about anyone elses opinion. Nearly everyone I have had this argument have said that I am just 'too dull/stupid' to understand the full complexity of their argument, and they're dead wrong. I get why people don't like the ending, I just personally don't view their reasons as my own and disagree with them. Because of this, I get called an idiot by the very people who got mad when people said they were too emotional and I find it's quite hypocritical of them. I am not trying to say you are wrong about the ending. I am trying to say that your opinion of the ending does not extend to everyone and the fact that most 'fans' who jump up and down about the ending make it sound like everyone who played the ending has that specific view. Then, when viewing their actions such as demanding a completely new ending, something which they have NO RIGHT to do, I feel misrepresented.

I actually believe that the reviewers opinion being likened to being formed in a vaccum is actually a good thing. This way their opinion is not swung by any outside influence and their opinion is entirely their own. This is why the Mass Effect ending blew up, because one after another people started looking towards the internet for other peoples opinions and then had their opinion changed. I know a guy who still hasn't played the game, yet tells people it's shit because he watched youtube clips. In fact, I've read a lot of people on this very site that they have not played the game and refuse to do so because of the internet. THEY aren't playing a game because their opinion was negatively affected due to the rage that came from the internet. I am seriously surprised when I read a thread and see someone say, "I played ME3 just last week, and it was actually ok" because I'm surprised that the internet hasn't stomped all over their opinion and changed it.

This guy is a poor man's Plinket. My opinion, I wont watch him again, nor will I talk about him from this point on because I accept that other people must like him and that just because I don't like him doesn't mean other people don?t.
 

Atmos Duality

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JellySlimerMan said:
Atmos Duality said:
JellySlimerMan said:
Because that is not hypocritical at all, isnt it? we say that a politician SHOULDNT judge ALL gamers for the actions of a mentally defient moron who killed people and liked COD, all while gamers say to each other how horrendous they are for the actions of a single fan of DMC.

Nop. Totally different things, this case is completely different.
Strawman Argument.
Is it?
It totally is.

or encapsulates everything about this thread?

Judging ALL the people of ONE group just because ONE individual did something bad, is:

A)NOT OK, when non gamers judge all gamers when ONE idiot killed people and liked COD.

B)OK, IF gamers do it to their own sub groups, that are judged by the actions of ONE individual.
What the fuck does a random crazy shooter have to do with Devil May Cry and its fanbase?
I have no idea where you got random shooters and politicians from in regards to my comment, but I suggest you sort your nonsense out before replying again.
 

GrimHeaper

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JellySlimerMan said:
shadow skill said:
The theme rests on the distinction between demons and humans being that human beings can care about beings other than themselves. In fact it is this ability to care for and about others that makes Dante more powerful than most other demons aside from possibly Mundus. DmC not only removes Dante's biological connection to humanity, it never once indicates that the capacity to care for others is what makes Dante strong. In this game it is pure genetics that allows him to stand up to Mundus, nothing more, nothing less. The title loses what little meaning it had in the previous games.
But dont you find that, only BIOLOGICALLY, you can care about everything BUT yourself? sounds as stupid like the Always Chaotic Evil races of Dungeon & Dragons. It doesnt matter if you raise an orc to be a good person, the evil is in their veins and there is nothing you can do about it. It will stab you and rape your corpse because its evil.

Also, in DmC, Dante not only cares about humanity even more than Vergil by the endgame, he actually cares about the human Kat and fights the final boss for the freedom of all humanity. And ends up having the white hair permanently.
I find it funny you have to bring up the white hair at all like it redeems him.
Donte is pretty much emotionless in this game. Vorgil shows more care than him for humans.
Kat shows more care for vorgil than Donte.
Humanity isn't free at all at the end it's doomed.
There is no other direction that can be made besides doomed at that point.
Another video pointing out flaws.
and the part 1 so you don't complain about him being a hater.
 

shadow skill

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JellySlimerMan said:
shadow skill said:
The theme rests on the distinction between demons and humans being that human beings can care about beings other than themselves. In fact it is this ability to care for and about others that makes Dante more powerful than most other demons aside from possibly Mundus. DmC not only removes Dante's biological connection to humanity, it never once indicates that the capacity to care for others is what makes Dante strong. In this game it is pure genetics that allows him to stand up to Mundus, nothing more, nothing less. The title loses what little meaning it had in the previous games.
But dont you find that, only BIOLOGICALLY, you can care about everything BUT yourself? sounds as stupid like the Always Chaotic Evil races of Dungeon & Dragons. It doesnt matter if you raise an orc to be a good person, the evil is in their veins and there is nothing you can do about it. It will stab you and rape your corpse because its evil.

Also, in DmC, Dante not only cares about humanity even more than Vergil by the endgame, he actually cares about the human Kat and fights the final boss for the freedom of all humanity. And ends up having the white hair permanently.
Sparda also exhibited this behavior and he was a demon. So that has never really been the case in DMC. But that entire theme is gone from this game. There is a difference between a theme and a plot point. What happened at the end of DmC with respect to Dante is a plot point, not a theme. Why discard a theme that already existed in the previous franchises to reintroduce it as a plot point at the very end of the game? If anything Vergil exhibits more concern for humans than Dante does for the entire game, although it is true that his angle is far more smugly paternalistic. Further given what has happened through the course of this game it might have been better for Dante to agree to work with Vergil in order to protect humanity while trying to convince Vergil that humans are not beneath him. Still the title of the game is less meaningful than it has ever been. It refers to no theme, or plot point in the game, the title just sits there doing nothing at all.
 

lapan

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Atmos Duality said:
JellySlimerMan said:
Because that is not hypocritical at all, isnt it? we say that a politician SHOULDNT judge ALL gamers for the actions of a mentally defient moron who killed people and liked COD, all while gamers say to each other how horrendous they are for the actions of a single fan of DMC.

Nop. Totally different things, this case is completely different.
Strawman Argument.
Isn't the whole point of this thread a giant strawman?


Also maybe some mod should split the topic since the last few pages were mostly about Mass Effect.
 

JellySlimerMan

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Atmos Duality said:
What the fuck does a random crazy shooter have to do with Devil May Cry and its fanbase?
I have no idea where you got random shooters and politicians from in regards to my comment, but I suggest you sort your nonsense out before replying again.
Well gee, lets see:

1)In case one, we have Group A jumping to the conclusion that Group B is the worst ever (and the cause of global warming. Because why not?) just for the actions of ONE individual of Group B.

2)In another, we have Group A jumping to the conclusion that Group B is the worst ever (and the reason that gaming is dying) just for the actions of ONE individual of Group B.

Did you connect the dots yet? let me make it easy for you.

1)In case one, we have Group A (Non Gamers and politicians) jumping to the conclusion that Group B (ALL Gamers) is the worst ever (and the cause of global warming. Because why not?) just for the actions of ONE individual of Group B.

2)In another, we have Group A (Gamers) jumping to the conclusion that Group B (ALL DMC fans) is the worst ever (and the reason that gaming is dying) just for the actions of ONE individual of Group B.

Again, loving the hypocrisy so far.

Oh, and it isnt a strawman, its a Slyppery Sloppe.
 

JellySlimerMan

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GrimHeaper said:
Another video pointing out flaws.
and the part 1 so you don't complain about him being a hater.
Why would i care about a person being a hater if the argument is solid? So i am the kind of person that jumps to the conclusion that everything is either Black or White/With Us or Against Us? What kind of idiot would judge someone's argument depending of who says it, instead of the argument itself?
 

Atmos Duality

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JellySlimerMan said:
Well gee, lets see:

1)In case one, we have Group A jumping to the conclusion that Group B is the worst ever (and the cause of global warming. Because why not?) just for the actions of ONE individual of Group B.

2)In another, we have Group A jumping to the conclusion that Group B is the worst ever (and the reason that gaming is dying) just for the actions of ONE individual of Group B.

Did you connect the dots yet? let me make it easy for you.
OK, so two groups of people did the same thing....in a completely different time and context.
Was I talking about the CoD Shooter? Was I talking about Lieberman or Tipper-esque "Save the childrens from media" outrage?
No?
Why should I be? Why should I care?

I might as well invoke Godwin's Law and blame the Nazis too, because it makes just about as much sense.

Again, loving the hypocrisy so far.
Well, love away because I am going to guess at what conclusion you're trying to form.

That gamers are capable of making broad generalizations?

Yeah, no shit. That's what my initial comment was about.
But I didn't drag anyone else into that; no knee-jerk politicos, or outrage groups, or shooters etc.
They have their own sins to account for, but today, I'm only aimed at the guy who is condemning ME (a Devil May Cry fan) for actions others committed.

As for hypocrisy:
i) Do we know for sure if this individual has openly decried broad generalizations levied against him/her? No?
It's pretty shaky to accuse someone of hypocrisy if you don't actually know what they've said and done.
Nor should we assume.

ii) Hypocrisy is not inherently evil, despite its negative bias. (in fact calling someone a hypocrite as part of an argument is a fallacy itself). People can change their minds (and be thankful for that), or the role of advocacy may require them to argue against things they believe in.

Here, I'm guessing the intention of your argument was to call others hypocrites...which isn't a fallacy since it's the end and not the means.

So...uh...OK?
 

Atmos Duality

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lapan said:
Isn't the whole point of this thread a giant strawman?

Also maybe some mod should split the topic since the last few pages were mostly about Mass Effect.
Yes, it is a giant strawman. The topic title is just a broad generalization.
I think the mod should just lock the damn thing.
 

JellySlimerMan

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shadow skill said:
JellySlimerMan said:
shadow skill said:
The theme rests on the distinction between demons and humans being that human beings can care about beings other than themselves. In fact it is this ability to care for and about others that makes Dante more powerful than most other demons aside from possibly Mundus. DmC not only removes Dante's biological connection to humanity, it never once indicates that the capacity to care for others is what makes Dante strong. In this game it is pure genetics that allows him to stand up to Mundus, nothing more, nothing less. The title loses what little meaning it had in the previous games.
But dont you find that, only BIOLOGICALLY, you can care about everything BUT yourself? sounds as stupid like the Always Chaotic Evil races of Dungeon & Dragons. It doesnt matter if you raise an orc to be a good person, the evil is in their veins and there is nothing you can do about it. It will stab you and rape your corpse because its evil.

Also, in DmC, Dante not only cares about humanity even more than Vergil by the endgame, he actually cares about the human Kat and fights the final boss for the freedom of all humanity. And ends up having the white hair permanently.
Sparda also exhibited this behavior and he was a demon. So that has never really been the case in DMC. But that entire theme is gone from this game. There is a difference between a theme and a plot point. What happened at the end of DmC with respect to Dante is a plot point, not a theme. Why discard a theme that already existed in the previous franchises to reintroduce it as a plot point at the very end of the game? If anything Vergil exhibits more concern for humans than Dante does for the entire game, although it is true that his angle is far more smugly paternalistic. Further given what has happened through the course of this game it might have been better for Dante to agree to work with Vergil in order to protect humanity while trying to convince Vergil that humans are not beneath him. Still the title of the game is less meaningful than it has ever been. It refers to no theme, or plot point in the game, the title just sits there doing nothing at all.
Why i dont hear this kind of thing more often?? I mean, if it is this obvious to ilustrate how broken the premise and theme of the DmC is compared to the original, then why people still insist of fans of Devil May Cry on being whiny?? They seem to know better than the developers themselves. (most fans so far end up showing an amazing comprehention of the games they play to the point that i am surpriced they arent making games or writting stories yet)

Anyway. What was the official reason to change the fundamental aspect of the series?
 

DioWallachia

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shadow skill said:
Sparda also exhibited this behavior and he was a demon. So that has never really been the case in DMC. But that entire theme is gone from this game. There is a difference between a theme and a plot point. What happened at the end of DmC with respect to Dante is a plot point, not a theme. Why discard a theme that already existed in the previous franchises to reintroduce it as a plot point at the very end of the game? If anything Vergil exhibits more concern for humans than Dante does for the entire game, although it is true that his angle is far more smugly paternalistic. Further given what has happened through the course of this game it might have been better for Dante to agree to work with Vergil in order to protect humanity while trying to convince Vergil that humans are not beneath him. Still the title of the game is less meaningful than it has ever been. It refers to no theme, or plot point in the game, the title just sits there doing nothing at all.
Interesting. But i got an early response to this question and it seems that other people dont see any difference between Donte and Dante. See post 96.

http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/9.399742-Its-official-Devil-May-Cry-fans-are-the-worst-fans-ever?page=3
 

shadow skill

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DioWallachia said:
shadow skill said:
Sparda also exhibited this behavior and he was a demon. So that has never really been the case in DMC. But that entire theme is gone from this game. There is a difference between a theme and a plot point. What happened at the end of DmC with respect to Dante is a plot point, not a theme. Why discard a theme that already existed in the previous franchises to reintroduce it as a plot point at the very end of the game? If anything Vergil exhibits more concern for humans than Dante does for the entire game, although it is true that his angle is far more smugly paternalistic. Further given what has happened through the course of this game it might have been better for Dante to agree to work with Vergil in order to protect humanity while trying to convince Vergil that humans are not beneath him. Still the title of the game is less meaningful than it has ever been. It refers to no theme, or plot point in the game, the title just sits there doing nothing at all.
Interesting. But i got an early response to this question and it seems that other people dont see any difference between Donte and Dante. See post 96.

http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/9.399742-Its-official-Devil-May-Cry-fans-are-the-worst-fans-ever?page=3
Dunno what to tell them really, I already dealt with that post, but if people cannot look past archetypes Kratos would be the same as Dante and DmC Dante. But even if the personalities were the same the theme of humanity would still be broken in DmC.
 

GrimHeaper

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JellySlimerMan said:
GrimHeaper said:
Another video pointing out flaws.
and the part 1 so you don't complain about him being a hater.
Why would i care about a person being a hater if the argument is solid? So i am the kind of person that jumps to the conclusion that everything is either Black or White/With Us or Against Us? What kind of idiot would judge someone's argument depending of who says it, instead of the argument itself?
Are you new to the internet? And judging from your response you didn't even watch the videos.
DioWallachia said:
GrimHeaper said:
Those videos are mine now. Going to download them and use them for future reference.
Glad you will.
I keep finding these kind of video's and they don't often repeat the same points that often.
Here is some ammo for you when you get around to it.
OG dante says he doesn't like people that talk more than him, he would hate Donte.
Donte is also weaker and has less variety than old dante in combat.
People saying he looks the same who are blind
http://storage.siliconera.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2013/01/dmc1.jpg
SO MUCH AMMO and I didn't even post all of it.
Not even DMC2 gives me that much ammo.
And DMC2 is horrible.
Of course there are people that say judge it as it's own game and rag on the old ones while they are at it.
Saying the old games are easy anyway, but if that was the case why are they justifying them making it even easier for a bigger audience? It's so so terrible.