It's Super Serious! For Serious! Comics!

[ninjaRiv]

I've been getting into comics again lately (having been put off them by Marvel's recent AvX crap) and it made me remember the times I heard people say "Comics aren't serious, grow up." Now, I know you've all heard this and we've had lengthy discussions about the topic here before but what I was wondering is, what do you show them to prove them wrong? What comics do you pull out with a loud "HA!"

Also, games, too. Games get a bad reputation for being immature but I'm pretty sure we all whip out the same examples.

 

[hazabaza1]

The Walking Dead, both comics and games. The Persona series has some pretty adulty serious stuff in them, while being able to keep the happy friendly parts intact.

 

[ItouKaiji]

While not a western style comic book I will always pull out Naoki Urasawa's Monster. Dark, psychological themes handled in a mature fashion, a complex multi-layered plot that is as much about developing those themes as telling the actual story. It's not just a great manga, it's a great story that will make you think.

If you want something more western then there is always Watchmen. A deconstruction of of super heroes in general, lots of character growth and development. It's a great graphic novel with some interesting ideas and concepts. And it shows that superheroes don't have to be just for kids.

 

[Thaluikhain]

If you want something more western then there is always Watchmen. A deconstruction of of super heroes in general, lots of character growth and development. It's a great graphic novel with some interesting ideas and concepts. And it shows that superheroes don't have to be just for kids.

Well...yes...only for 20-30 years it was ripped off by people aiming for rather immature readers. Watchmen was ground-breaking, now it's been swamped by rubbish imitators.

 

[ninjaRiv]

Personally, I feel that Watchmen is overrated (as well as Alan Moore as a writer) but yes, it does help prove that superheroes aren't always what people think they are. I'm more likely to use Dark Knight Returns to argue that, just because of preference.

 

[ItouKaiji]

If you want something more western then there is always Watchmen. A deconstruction of of super heroes in general, lots of character growth and development. It's a great graphic novel with some interesting ideas and concepts. And it shows that superheroes don't have to be just for kids.

Well...yes...only for 20-30 years it was ripped off by people aiming for rather immature readers. Watchmen was ground-breaking, now it's been swamped by rubbish imitators.

Yes, but that doesn't take away from Watchmen itself. Most anything that achieves that kind of status is going to be imitated by every talentless hack that doesn't understand what made the material good in the first place. Watchmen is still to this day a solid story even if parts of it come off as a bit dated, and it still shows the potential for thoughtful and in depth storytelling in comics.

Edit: And yeah, Dark Knight Returns is another good example of a mature super hero story....just make sure to skip The Dark Knight Strikes Again which was written after Frank Miller went crazy and could only write Sin City style stories even if they didn't fit the tone of what he was working on.

 

[Mr. Q]

I'm not big into overly serious books. I'd like to try out stuff like Maus but I feel the serious "grim & gritty" tone comics have these days has consumed too much of the landscape. I'd like to get into books that can have a serious tone but offer some humor as well. Best examples for these is the Giffen/DeMatteis run of Justice League International and Eric Powell's The Goon.

 

[ShipofFools]

It's different here where I live. Lots of adults here like comics, only not the superhero kind. (Neither do I, for that matter.)

You know what's really fun? Scrooge McDuck comics!

 

[an annoyed writer]

Ever heard of the Graphic Novel Road to Perdition? It was so good that they made a movie adaptation with Tom Hanks in it, and that was good. Pull that one on them if you want to show a good adult-oriented comic.

 

[Muspelheim]

Blacksad's fairly serious. Thankfully, in the right way, being a noire-style detective comic and not for grittiness own sake. The watercoloured atmosphere is beautiful, and makes it well worth reading for that alone.

I'd also recommend Joe Sacco's work, an American-Maltan journalist who uses comics as a journalistic medium, and does it very well. He's practically a war correspondant, and his works about his visits to the Yugoslavian war and Palestine are likely to be a lot more serious than anyone would bargain for...

It's different here where I live. Lots of adults here like comics, only not the superhero kind. (Neither do I, for that matter.)

You know what's really fun? Scrooge McDuck comics!

That's true, as well. Donald Duck stories drawn by legendary Don Rosa can have fairly serious moments and genuinely touching scenes. Not bad work at all, considering it's about talking ducks.

(Don Rosa also did stories about templars and dream diving before both those things were public property, which apparently means he's a clairvoyant, too)

 

[Zoe Castillo]

Ever heard of the Graphic Novel Road to Perdition? It was so good that they made a movie adaptation with Tom Hanks in it, and that was good. Pull that one on them if you want to show a good adult-oriented comic.

I second that (as I always seem to)

Now I hate to do this but being a bit of an Alan Moore fan I have to be predictable and say ?From Hell?, ?v for vendetta? and ?watchmen?. But since that?s kind of too obvious here Is some more interesting stuff

Blankets
Maus
Northlanders
Sandman
DMZ

 

[FalloutJack]

Hellblazer.

Nobody is more in the shit in life and the supernatural than that blonde bastard, John Constantine.

Though, I love Gaiman's work too.

 

[Casual Shinji]

Berserk

No, not due to the violence, but because of the intricate relationships between the characters and their power struggles, especially in the Golden Age arc. The relationship between Guts and Griffith is some deep stuff.

 

[ninjaRiv]

Hellblazer.

Nobody is more in the shit in life and the supernatural than that blonde bastard, John Constantine.

Though, I love Gaiman's work too.

Hellblazer happens to be my favourite comic... right up until the cancellation.

 

[Froggy Slayer]

Kingdom Come is a really good comic book. Mature, and yet still remains idealistic.

Also Red Son.

Also Sandman.

 

[ninjaRiv]

No mention of Warren Ellis and Transmet yet? That's one of those I bring up to show comics can be fun, crazy and have serious, satirical tones.

I actually bring up Bendis' run to defend modern superheroes, too.

 

[Daft Time]

Now, I know you've all heard this and we've had lengthy discussions about the topic here before but what I was wondering is, what do you show them to prove them wrong? What comics do you pull out with a loud "HA!"

Also, games, too. Games get a bad reputation for being immature but I'm pretty sure we all whip out the same examples.

Watchmen, V for Vendetta, etcetera. The comics I'd pull out if I felt the need to argue for their ability to produce intelligent, mature content are fairly obvious but solid examples of their potential. I'm not particularly into comics, graphic novels or manga though so I rarely bother with defending them. Despite their fantastic potential the majority of the medium is trash. Admittedly, this is true of all mediums but it's so much harder to navigate comics to find the stuff truly worth the time to read.

...that sounded more like hating than I intended. Before anyone gets riled up, I really do stress the last sentence of that paragraph. It's probably the most important issue facing the comics industry if it wishes to expand it's audience. To the outsider who wishes to find more comics there is a virtual sea of horrendous material - particularly the much over produced Superhero segment - to sort through.

As for games? The Walking Dead is my current favourite. It's as equally obvious as the previous examples - maybe more so - but it's a very strong contender for the best written video game to date. Beyond that; more narrative centric titles with the sense that player involvement actually matters. L.A. Noire, Deus Ex, Mass Effect - all pretty good examples of what I mean, though they aren't nearly as convincing an argument as the Walking Dead is. I'm sure there's something that's of the same calibre as it, but I'm currently drawing a blank.

EDIT:
I forgot to mention it, but I find it really interesting that the exemplar for mature video games has it's roots in comics, the other medium that has problems establishing it's potential for mature content in the general consensus of the public.

Ever heard of the Graphic Novel Road to Perdition? It was so good that they made a movie adaptation with Tom Hanks in it, and that was good. Pull that one on them if you want to show a good adult-oriented comic.

I think I've heard of it before, but I don't remember either picking of the graphic novel or watching the film. Odd. I'll take a look at it if I get a chance. Thanks for the recommend.

 

[ninjaRiv]

Now, I know you've all heard this and we've had lengthy discussions about the topic here before but what I was wondering is, what do you show them to prove them wrong? What comics do you pull out with a loud "HA!"

Also, games, too. Games get a bad reputation for being immature but I'm pretty sure we all whip out the same examples.

Watchmen, V for Vendetta, etcetera. The comics I'd pull out if I felt the need to argue for their ability to produce intelligent, mature content are fairly obvious but solid examples of their potential. I'm not particularly into comics, graphic novels or manga though so I rarely bother with defending them. Despite their fantastic potential the majority of the medium is trash. Admittedly, this is true of all mediums but it's so much harder to navigate comics to find the stuff truly worth the time to read.

...that sounded more like hating than I intended. Before anyone gets riled up, I really do stress the last sentence of that paragraph. It's probably the most important issue facing the comics industry if it wishes to expand it's audience. To the outsider who wishes to find more comics there is a virtual sea of horrendous material - particularly the much over produced Superhero segment - to sort through.

As for games? The Walking Dead is my current favourite. It's as equally obvious as the previous examples - maybe more so - but it's a very strong contender for the best written video game to date. Beyond that; more narrative centric titles with the sense that player involvement actually matters. L.A. Noire, Deus Ex, Mass Effect - all pretty good examples of what I mean, though they aren't nearly as convincing an argument as the Walking Dead is. I'm sure there's something that's of the same calibre as it, but I'm currently drawing a blank.

EDIT:
I forgot to mention it, but I find it really interesting that the exemplar for mature video games has it's roots in comics, the other medium that has problems establishing it's potential for mature content in the general consensus of the public.

Ever heard of the Graphic Novel Road to Perdition? It was so good that they made a movie adaptation with Tom Hanks in it, and that was good. Pull that one on them if you want to show a good adult-oriented comic.

I think I've heard of it before, but I don't remember either picking of the graphic novel or watching the film. Odd. I'll take a look at it if I get a chance. Thanks for the recommend.

You're right but I think that's more down to how many comics get published. There's a lot more comics in general to sort through so there's gonna be more crap than most mediums. But I have to admit, I still enjoy a couple of Superhero titles. Mostly the new Flash series.

I haven't played Walking Dead yet. Having not enjoyed the comics in a long time and not enjoying the show after season 1, I can't find the motivation to get it.

 

[Daft Time]

You're right but I think that's more down to how many comics get published. There's a lot more comics in general to sort through so there's gonna be more crap than most mediums. But I have to admit, I still enjoy a couple of Superhero titles. Mostly the new Flash series.

I haven't played Walking Dead yet. Having not enjoyed the comics in a long time and not enjoying the show after season 1, I can't find the motivation to get it.

Forget about the comics and the show all together. While technically it exists in the same universe, it stands completely on it's own narratively. The characters are original, as are the places it visits. It's also extremely different thematically then both the television show and the comic. It'd truly be a shame to miss out one of the most emotionally effective titles that's been produced n any medium. It's is extremely different from any video game that has come before it in it's narrative.

You wont regret it, I promise.

The comics issue isn't really because they are so numerous (though it's a part of the problem), but because a single line of comics will vary so much in quality throughout it's run. How many long running comic icons have a few excellent issues, only to have a horde of horrid ones both preceding and proceeding it? Somebody new to comics may pick up a fabulous comic on their first time, then try to find others but looking at others of the same title and finding some of the most inane garbage known to man.

The quality just isn't sustained.

 

[ninjaRiv]

Forget about the comics and the show all together. While technically it exists in the same universe, it stands completely on it's own narratively. The characters are original, as are the places it visits. It's also extremely different thematically then both the television show and the comic. It'd truly be a shame to miss out one of the most emotionally effective titles that's been produced n any medium. It's is extremely different from any video game that has come before it in it's narrative.

You wont regret it, I promise.

The comics issue isn't really because they are so numerous (though it's a part of the problem), but because a single line of comics will vary so much in quality throughout it's run. How many long running comic icons have a few excellent issues, only to have a horde of horrid ones both preceding and proceeding it? Somebody new to comics may pick up a fabulous comic on their first time, then try to find others but looking at others of the same title and finding some of the most inane garbage known to man.

The quality just isn't sustained.

Ok, I'll give it a shot!

To be honest, I think that's part of the fun and adds to the community of it, in a way. "Oh, hey, did you check out Brabaker's run on Punisher?" "Yeah, it wasn't as good as Ennis' but it was good. Let us retire to the dining area and discuss different runs on the Punisher with a brandy!" That being said, every medium has that. Franchises like Star Wars, for example. And can you really say every Police Academy is great? So I don't personally think that's an issue (Ha! Comic pun).