However I'm really not that invested in 'winning' any argument on this topic, as much as my last post implied otherwise. I can actually tolerate people with different opinions on a topic/film, which seems to be a rapidly diminishing trait on the internet today.
Amen to that, brother. If you ever want to have a civil discussion about the film, by all means hit me up.
Chriss_m said:
You say that starting a counter drama is not a solution, and to simply ignore it. Fair enough. But that's not a solution either. That's simply conceding the argument to the nutcases.
Thanks for that video. It was a good explanation of meme theory, clickbait, etc. And I do take the point. But, I would only argue back, and this will be my last post for now (you can have the last word if you wish), that there is already enough of these people to propagate and replicate their own delusions, that it really doesn't matter if we don't talk about it. Because there are just enough of them to enforce the changes they want based on their faulty reasoning. That's why I think it's important to be vocal with dissenting points of view.
Anyway, as I said, I enjoyed your post and think it was well argued.
To the above poster, please see my responses to BloatedGuppy, which I think lays out my argument well enough. Thanks.
What accusations of sexism? The main post, its content, and the comments all leading up to yours, never once say anything about actual sexism being involved. Which begs the question: why are 'You', trying to bring sexism into the discussion here, when the purpose of this news was to express the frustration involved at Hasbro not including the 'Main' character of the newest Star Wars movie - notice that they said 'Main', and not 'Female'.
Sexism is the only reason this got attention in the first place. This is follow up article covering JJ's response to that controversy, and he doesn't talk about that which is perfectly fine.
It's about sexism. I mean, are you fucking serious? This got covered everywhere by even non-nerd media, not including a 'main' character generates mild disappointment by a handful of die-hard Star Wars / Monopoly fans, not controversy. If that's all it was, we wouldn't still be talking about it because guess what, nobody gives a fuck about Monopoly pieces unless there's some sort of hot topic to go with it.
Look up any of the articles covering the original news, the accusation were about sexism. Sorry for assuming people would have been aware of previously established context when making my comment.
Alright, a few things I want to comment on pertaining to this news story and the discussion around it.
THERE ARE A LOT OF REY TOYS
This is not a Black Widow situation, where Disney specifically bought a property (Marvel) to court one demographic (young males) and ignore another (young females) because it already had it locked down (Disney Princesses). Your new Disney Star Wars was an egalitarian wet dream , and you can rest reasonably assured that this was deliberate. This is their mass market "catch as many as you can" IP. And this is Star Wars. LIKE THEY WEREN'T GOING TO MAKE TOYS OUT OF EVERYTHING.
One of the major, if not THE major reasons there aren't a lot of Rey toys is because Rey was very popular, even before the film launched and her toys were selling out.
Seeking out toys of female characters online rather than going out of your way to brick and mortar stores might be a solution for some, but don?t expect it to be any easier as far as availability goes. Many figures of Rey and Captain Phasma are already sold out or unavailable on the K-mart, Toys ?R? Us, and Disney Store websites. And on Amazon, the standard 3.75 inch Rey figure costs twice its regular retail price via third party sellers ? meaning it?s also been selling out at the retail level.
However, this scarcity doesn?t explicitly mean that there are fewer female action figures in production than male ones, as many customers might fear from checking out their local stores. Several sources we spoke to noted that ?Star Wars: The Force Awakens? figures were produced in relatively equal amounts to one another, because licensors weren?t sure which of the new characters would sell the best ? and are planning to adjust after the movie is released, accordingly.
Retailers also can?t select individual figures to sell more than others in a particular figure line. Right now, they all come bundled together, meaning that stores get as many Finn figures as they get Rey figures in any one shipment. So if you?re seeing a row of 6″ Hasbro Black Series figures with no Rey in sight, it?s more likely that there were just as many Rey toys at one point, and they all got bought out ? versus were never there in the first place.
Talking to Jim Silver, the CEO and editor-in-chief of TTPM ? a well respected aggregator and creator of expert toy and collectible reviews ? simply told MTV News, ?It?s supply and demand. You go back to the old characters, the one thing you knew was that by far Darth Vader was the most popular character, and outsold the other characters in multiples.?
That might be of interest to Zontar and the "Rey is such a shitty character no one wanted a toy of her LUL" gang.
THE "THERE ARE NO REY TOYS" STUPIDITY SWIRLED AROUND TWO PRODUCTS
One was an action figure set containing Poe, Finn, Kylo Ren, Chewbacca, and two Storm Troopers (??). No Han in there either, it was just a random set of six figures. Jamie Ford tweeted a picture of this shrieking about "No Rey", as though Star Wars wasn't the biggest merchandising whore in the history of film franchises, and there wouldn't be Rey toys to find elsewhere. And some Very Excitable People read this on the internet and took it as gospel, because of course they did.
The other was Monopoly, which included 4 figures, two of which were Luke and Darth. Two things leap immediately to mind here. One is that their whole "we were trying to avoid spoilers" excuse is woefully transparent and feeble, and the second is that they really don't require an excuse. It's MONOPOLY. Who FUCKING CARES. There will probably be thirty seven more Force Awakens Monopolies released over the next two years, because Monopoly might be second only to Star Wars in the "whoring itself out" department. They'd make an all IG-88 Monopoly if they thought someone would buy it.
HASBRO PROBABLY THOUGHT FINN WAS THE CENTRAL CHARACTER
Thanks to the film's deliberately misleading marketing. Who knows when these stupid Monopolies went into production. Very little thought likely went into them. Because, you know, Monopoly. Just the fact Luke and Darth are in there and there are only four tokens total tells you how much love and care this product got. It's a lazy cash-in on the new film. Some Taiwanese factory probably had one still from the film to work on five months ago.
TO THE PEOPLE OH SO PREDICTABLY WHINING ABOUT TEH SJWS
Please do give it a rest. You're as bad as, if not actively worse, than the people you are condemning. Just a bunch of outrage addicts, symbiotically generating drama.
What accusations of sexism? The main post, its content, and the comments all leading up to yours, never once say anything about actual sexism being involved. Which begs the question: why are 'You', trying to bring sexism into the discussion here, when the purpose of this news was to express the frustration involved at Hasbro not including the 'Main' character of the newest Star Wars movie - notice that they said 'Main', and not 'Female'.
Sexism is the only reason this got attention in the first place. This is follow up article covering JJ's response to that controversy, and he doesn't talk about that which is perfectly fine.
It's about sexism. I mean, are you fucking serious? This got covered everywhere by even non-nerd media, not including a 'main' character generates mild disappointment by a handful of die-hard Star Wars / Monopoly fans, not controversy. If that's all it was, we wouldn't still be talking about it because guess what, nobody gives a fuck about Monopoly pieces unless there's some sort of hot topic to go with it.
Look up any of the articles covering the original news, the accusation were about sexism. Sorry for assuming people would have been aware of previously established context when making my comment.
Emotional red herrings are not really all that enticing to me, but I will respond, nevertheless. The actual context involved here, is not the one that you brought up; instead, the context can be seen if you re-read everything that I wrote, in which I stated that I never denied that sexism is at least some small part of the overall controversy.
My argument, is that the author went through pains to keep this article neutral, without making any allegations involving sexism, which means that this topic had a legitimate chance to discuss the actual facts of the issue, without bringing in the same, tired arguments seen on other news' sites. So, in regards to those that keep bringing up the same, tired arguments, thanks for helping make The Escapist a little more like all of the other news' sites.
Personally, it does not matter how many people search for their favourite boogeymen, or how hard they have to squint to consistently see their respective boogeymen, which, in this case, is sexism, because that is an allegation that really has no depth to it, especially when people pretend as if they have an inside knowledge of the manufacturing processes that led to this "Incident."
The lack of a main character is kind of a big deal regardless of sexism issues. But why the frak does monopoly only come with 4 characters? I'm pretty sure the prequel version I got years ago had at least double that.
Rey isnt being ignored by manufacturers because she is female. She is being ignored because she is a boring, Mary Sue character who doesnt inspire female nor male children. The more time passes, the more people will get over the buzz, and realize Rey isnt really a Star Wars-worthy character.
Luke Skywalker? The guy who, in the first movie, had to be bailed out of a Sand Person attack and bar fight by Obi Wan, had to be saved from Darth Vader by Han Solo, and who's most impressive acts were blocking a droid's shots with Ibi Wan's guidance and making a shot that anyone in the Rebellion should've been capable of?
Or perhaps you were talking about Episode V Luke where he got side swiped by a Wampa and nearly eaten, got showed up by a muppet in the force, and then recived a shiny ass beatdown by his Papa then ended with him beaten, broken, and lacking a hand and his most impressive feats were sneak attacking an AT-AT and learning how to jump good?
Or Episode 6 Luke who FINALLY figured out the mind Trick and became badass, beat Vader, and then proceeded to get tazered by Palpatine to the point Vader had to save him?
And Han? The guy who, in the first movie, had an attitude that basically ensured that the only reason anyone wanted to work with him was because of his ship and piloting skills, and had to be bribed to save Leia or go back to help the Rebellion? Who had his best friend betray him to The Empire and got frozen in carbonite to be sold to a slug thing? Who had to be saved by freaking EWOKS!?
You're REALLY going to claim that these two are bigger Sues than the character who figured out three force tricks in one day with no training, can fly a ship as unwieldy as The Falcon through ruined Star Destroyers while pulling sick tricks with no co-pilot, had a Lightsaber that should've been freaking GONE call out to her, escapes from inside the Remnant base with no difficulty and wanders around with no one noticing her, and is well liked by pretty much every one of the good guys the moment they see her? Freaking REALLY!?
She's honestly not that attractive to me to be quite frank. Callie Fisher and Natalie Portman had a LOT more going on in my book.
Doesn't help that Rey has barely more facial expression than Bella Swan. Seriously, the most variety I got from my Google image search was that Angry Duck Face she made when either chasing Finn or running from the Remnant on the desert planet.
To be fair, that whole sequence was sorta rushed and thrown in because of scheduling and Hamill getting into a car accident somewhat recently so they had to have some kind of reason for the injuries to be seen on-screen.
Also, c'mon, he trusted someone he knew had a tiny bit of a grudge against him in Lando and screwed up there by going to Cloud City. Had to be saved by Leia after being frozen, and then spent half of Jedi just sitting around recovering from being thawed out.
"Titular" doesn't mean "character who is vaguely alluded to by the title".
Max is the titular hero of the Mad Max series. Buffy is the titular hero of Buffy the Vampire Slayer. The Doctor is the titular hero of Dr. Who. The Metroids are the titular creatures from the Metroid series. Kain is the titular character from the Legacy of Kain series. Et cetera. Et cetera.
"Titular" basically means "I don't have to tell you this character's name, because it's right there in the title." So unless I've been mistaken all this time (and boy will my face be red if this is the case) and the movie is called "The Rey Awakens", Rey is not the titular character of the movie.
The reason there are so few Rey toys is because the ones that are out there are "rare first editions" that don't have her family name on the box. I hope you didn't open them and ruin the collectible value.
What I don't get about the "we didn't want to spoil things" rationale is this...
"Exactly what about her are you afraid of spoiling?"
I'm looking at the figurine, and I don't see a lightsaber in it. I see all the stuff they've been promoting her with in the first place. So what would be spoiled? The fact that she's in the movie at all? That's already established, you know, with all those posters of her center frame.
Anyone know, having bought the figurines, or seen presentations of the Monopoly one of her that could shed some light on this? If she's got a little lightsaber then I guess that makes sense to a degree? But if not....yeah I don't really see the logic of that reason.
So I have a question: Who in the hell made Abrams an authority on this matter? He directed one film in the series. One. He's not even involved in any of the other films. So why are people regarding this loon as an authority on the merchandising arm of the company? It would be like grabbing some system operator at a bank and asking about investment opportunities.
One could make an argument for the Monopoly game about letting Rey out, but for the sets? No. It's basic marketing. Hasbro is counting on her popularity so they can get more money from selling her alone than on sets with other characters. I saw this argument elsewhere about how this was sexist and I joked about reversing it by saying that according to Hasbro Rey is worth almost 3 times more than any of the male characters on the sets (You get 6 figures on the set each one at around 14 dollars and Rey alone is costs around 40), and that if anyone got to call sexism here was men because they were being seen as having less worth than a woman.
What I don't get about the "we didn't want to spoil things" rationale is this...
"Exactly what about her are you afraid of spoiling?"
I'm looking at the figurine, and I don't see a lightsaber in it. I see all the stuff they've been promoting her with in the first place. So what would be spoiled? The fact that she's in the movie at all? That's already established, you know, with all those posters of her center frame.
Anyone know, having bought the figurines, or seen presentations of the Monopoly one of her that could shed some light on this? If she's got a little lightsaber then I guess that makes sense to a degree? But if not....yeah I don't really see the logic of that reason.
This very site reported a fan getting sued for revealing a Ray action figure long before its street date, the reason was that it included a huge spoiler for the movie, it revealed her as the main character and as wielding Luke's Lightsaber. So yes, they take this very seriously.
She isn't in the Monopoly game because this is one of the collectible editions of Monopoly, they only give you four pieces, each time this gets released it will have different pieces. It was also not the Force Awakens Monopoly, but just Star Wars Monopoly. It contains two figures of the Force Awakens and two of the classic Trilogy. If you look at them, all but Fin have lightsabers, furhter cementing that Hasbro knew exactly what was going on an chose to keep the secret.
And seriously, Rey picking up the lightsaber, and showing off her force skills was so awesome and huge, had it been spoilt beforehand it would have made it less impactfull.
Had they been releasing Rey figures earlier and they just didn't sell well? That's the only thing that would make sense. I could see her as being a pretty damn boring toy in her sweat stained sand cloak outfit. Finn has a cool jacket going for him and everyone else is classic. I assume she'll change wardrobe in the second film like Luke did into something slick and badass and then kids will start to want that one.
But if the character isn't selling, then let's not ***** about companies wanting to make money given limited storefront space.
However, not including the main protagonist in sets like the board game that can have the whole cast though, that's not only "preposterous" but bizarre. I can't think of anything else where that would have happened.
What I don't get about the "we didn't want to spoil things" rationale is this...
"Exactly what about her are you afraid of spoiling?"
I'm looking at the figurine, and I don't see a lightsaber in it. I see all the stuff they've been promoting her with in the first place. So what would be spoiled? The fact that she's in the movie at all? That's already established, you know, with all those posters of her center frame.
Anyone know, having bought the figurines, or seen presentations of the Monopoly one of her that could shed some light on this? If she's got a little lightsaber then I guess that makes sense to a degree? But if not....yeah I don't really see the logic of that reason.
This very site reported a fan getting sued for revealing a Ray action figure long before its street date, the reason was that it included a huge spoiler for the movie, it revealed her as the main character and as wielding Luke's Lightsaber. So yes, they take this very seriously.
Oh I don't doubt that they take it seriously, I was just unaware of what specifically about the action figure would be considered a "spoiler". Though considering that one Energizer battery commercial apparently spoiled the same thing, then apparently nobody cared to get onto them for that. Though personally, Rey getting the lightsaber is one of the least spoiler things imaginable. To think that she, the primary protagonist, and center character in all the advertisements wouldn't get a lightsaber is silly. My general response to that was an internal "Well duh" xD "Of course she's going to get a lightsaber."
Dead Metal said:
And seriously, Rey picking up the lightsaber, and showing off her force skills was so awesome and huge, had it been spoilt beforehand it would have made it less impactfull.
Well it was spoiled, by the above mentioned Energizer commercial. Where you see Kid Rey using the Force and kicking ass with her brother. But hey, I personally saw it coming a mile away, and I still enjoyed that scene.
So I have a question: Who in the hell made Abrams an authority on this matter? He directed one film in the series. One. He's not even involved in any of the other films. So why are people regarding this loon as an authority on the merchandising arm of the company? It would be like grabbing some system operator at a bank and asking about investment opportunities.
Mostly because it gives some people justification to get up in arms over something incredibly minor because without it they know that their incredibly boring character they love so much and are heaping so much praise on is largely the most unpopular(maybe just least popular) thing in the new movie.
Now, I'm going to say that I haven't seen it, and I probably won't until it comes out of theaters, but considering the comparisons being made are other main women characters that are largely the least interesting ones in the story they appear in, I'm just going to guess it's much the same with Rey. Largely overhyped, over-praised, and incredibly under-used in the actual narrative(from what I've heard, maybe she'll get her ass handed to her and she'll actually have to try in the next movie or two).
What I don't get about the "we didn't want to spoil things" rationale is this...
"Exactly what about her are you afraid of spoiling?"
I'm looking at the figurine, and I don't see a lightsaber in it. I see all the stuff they've been promoting her with in the first place. So what would be spoiled? The fact that she's in the movie at all? That's already established, you know, with all those posters of her center frame.
Anyone know, having bought the figurines, or seen presentations of the Monopoly one of her that could shed some light on this? If she's got a little lightsaber then I guess that makes sense to a degree? But if not....yeah I don't really see the logic of that reason.
This very site reported a fan getting sued for revealing a Ray action figure long before its street date, the reason was that it included a huge spoiler for the movie, it revealed her as the main character and as wielding Luke's Lightsaber. So yes, they take this very seriously.
Oh I don't doubt that they take it seriously, I was just unaware of what specifically about the action figure would be considered a "spoiler". Though considering that one Energizer battery commercial apparently spoiled the same thing, then apparently nobody cared to get onto them for that. Though personally, Rey getting the lightsaber is one of the least spoiler things imaginable. To think that she, the primary protagonist, and center character in all the advertisements wouldn't get a lightsaber is silly. My general response to that was an internal "Well duh" xD "Of course she's going to get a lightsaber."
She wasn't touted as the primary protagonist, she was touted as one of the leads, in fact all the official stuff leading up to TFA pointed towards her and Fin being on equal footing.
And we're not talking about one action figure, Rey is one of the few characters to have multiple different toys in the same scale. In the main 3.3/4 inch scale there is the "normal" one with the outfit she wears throughout the film, the one that comes included in the set of her Jakku speeder bike with the cloak she wears in that scene, and so far one leaked figure which reportedly is called "Resistance Rey", which is the one that got the guy sued because it came with the Luke lightsaber and the box spoiling her whole secret Jedi thing and connection to the lightsaber, plus the final fight with Kylo Ren. And then there are the other action figure sizes, where she again has as many toys as the other characters.
So yes, it spoils the movie a great deal, more than the Energizer commercial.
Dead Metal said:
And seriously, Rey picking up the lightsaber, and showing off her force skills was so awesome and huge, had it been spoilt beforehand it would have made it less impactfull.
Well it was spoiled, by the above mentioned Energizer commercial. Where you see Kid Rey using the Force and kicking ass with her brother. But hey, I personally saw it coming a mile away, and I still enjoyed that scene.
That Energizer commercial also shows us a kid in Luke clothing, and them fighting ATATs, classic Stardestroyers and etc, as in all stuff that wasn't in the movie. So it could have been assumed that it was just a cute commercial and them using a Rey costume for the girl, because that was going to be the most recognizable recent one for the sister.
What you have to keep in mind is that the toys currently out on shelves, are just the first few waves (without looking into TFA too much, I guess Waves 1-3 of the 3.4/4 inch and Waves 1 for the other assortments), the very early first set of toys, there will be multiple waves coming over the next few months, all featuring different outfits and weapons, and characters. The leaked one was one of the later ones, meant for a release after the movie had been out a while. And if you look at the case assortments, each case has exactly one of each figure of the corresponding wave in it, so there are just as many Rey version 1 as there are of the other characters. Her being left out of one cheap multi pack and one play set is no big deal, it's common practice for every movie and TV tie in toy line. No main character is ever in every single set to their movie. And this being Star Wars (and a Hasbro toy line), there will be a super desirable version of her only available in one super expensive limited play set.
On top of that, I just checked and her normal outfit figure is included in multiple waves of the toy line. The 3.3/4 ships unchanged in two waves and in the 6 inch The Black Series, she's in three of five waves. So in fact she's being produced more than most other human characters in the line.
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