J.J. Abrams' Film Reboot Influenced Star Trek Online Expansion

[Crazie_Guy]

doubled'

 

[Crazie_Guy]

some stuff

It looks like your entire argument is based on the false idea that 'canon' must be a two-way road. I don't know any way to get this across without being patronizingly basic, but consider this: It is in fact possible for a work to be based on canon while not being canon itself.

This is one of the many things that separate good fan-fiction from bad; good stories will acknowledge and follow the rules and history of established canon, using it all as a launching point for a new story, though with any author able to do this, it will be a story that necessarily cannot be included in canon. Bad ones will feel free to rename the Enterprise U.S.S. Muffin Button and follow the adventures of Captain Author Name Here as he stamps out the borg everywhere and arm wrestles Q into submission.

This is a game based on Star Trek canon. It's not going to retell canon, either, it's going to tell its own new stories, and these stories will subsequently not be canon for the sake of other derivative works.. Even so, they are bound by canon. You simply can't cite the ability to write new stories within the framework of canon as a valid justification to completely ignore canon when you want. Frankly, this is common sense.


Once again, it boils down to your hatred of the new movie. YOU hate the movie, so you've decided to systematically hate everything about it. If I happened to hate the episode where they find Riker's transporter created double (I don't), would I have a right to march into someone else's Star Trek based fiction and demand that Thomas Riker be scratched out of history? If I hated that they introduced a queen to the borg, simultaneously giving a face and an individual antagonistic focal point to a race which was literally designed to be unhuman and unique specifically by NOT having those things (I really, really do), could I then demand STO to pretend she never existed?

 

[RicoADF]

*snip*

I'm no fan of JJ's trek either, its rather insulting in some areas with plot holes all over the place, however STO isn't set in JJ's universe, the only part of the movie that's recognized is that Romulas/Remus is destroyed, and they would have been required by CBS as part of their contract to keep the franchise consistent. The game covers alot of the origional star trek stories, including stories/references from ToS, TNG, DS9, ENT and the movies.

Then why, as I pointed out, were they allowed to completely fabricate a story out of thin air for their game? A story which, again, isn't considered official canon for the prime universe at present?

Mind, that might change in the future, but to date, no Star Trek game has ever been considered a part of official canon.

Again, it's picking and choosing. They "have to respect canon" for one aspect but are allowed to completely make up their own story for the central basis of the game? A story which CBS may, at any time, just wave off as "never happened"? Forgive me if I call that for the bunk that it is.

I actually recall reading (but don't have a link) that CBS has said that STO is cannon for the original timeline. Considering CBS approves everything they do it fits the definition of cannon. I've even heard rumors saying that they might do a series based on the Enterprise F (Odyssey class), however that's rumor at best for now.

That's as far as I'm going regarding that debate, we're arguing over how accurate a game is to a fictional story (as much as I love star trek its still fiction), I wont be dragged into a debate over weather something is cannon or not when the fact is by definition since the game is a licensed product unless stated otherwise it is cannon.

Also the fact that this is all about how you hate the new trek (which I agree with somewhat) and for some silly reason STO is copping that hate even though it is NOT JJ's star trek. If you want to bury yourself in the sand and only include the series upto enterprise then fine, but that's your loss not ours.

 

[BoogieManFL]

The new Star Trek films are good if you look at them purely as movies and not so much like an episode of Star Trek.

I wouldn't have accepted anything in the 2009 film as canon because it made no sense based upon one simple fact in my opinion. The Narada, is a mining ship. Nero says so himself. Romulus was destroyed in 2387 and the Narada travels back in time to 2233 and destroys Vulcan in 2258. Which assuming the Narada was commissioned in the same year it was sent back, means it was 129 years more advanced at the time of Vulcan's destruction. Yet, somehow, it destroys at least 5 or 6 brand new top of the line Federation ships, and presumably Vulcan defense vessels at the same time, but also somehow 49 Klingon warships sent against it as an armada.

Now, personally I doubt even a top of the line Romulan Warship of the TNG era could defeat *49* Klingon ships from TOS era all at the same time. Surely not a MINING ship of the era. And why would a mining ship be like 7-10 kilometers long behemoth? According to Memory alpha The Enterprise-E was 685 meters long, so .685 of a kilometer. A Borg Cube is about 3 kilometers of surface area per side. And while the design is nifty, it looks absolutely nothing like established Romulan design or architecture.

So in my opinion the Narada and it's capabilities are grossly exaggerated, and thus, poor canon to follow.

 

[Bindal]

The new Star Trek films are good if you look at them purely as movies and not so much like an episode of Star Trek.

I wouldn't have accepted anything in the 2009 film as canon because it made no sense based upon one simple fact in my opinion. The Narada, is a mining ship. Nero says so himself. Romulus was destroyed in 2387 and the Narada travels back in time to 2233 and destroys Vulcan in 2258. Which assuming the Narada was commissioned in the same year it was sent back, means it was 129 years more advanced at the time of Vulcan's destruction. Yet, somehow, it destroys at least 5 or 6 brand new top of the line Federation ships, and presumably Vulcan defense vessels at the same time, but also somehow 49 Klingon warships sent against it as an armada.

Now, personally I doubt even a top of the line Romulan Warship of the TNG era could defeat *49* Klingon ships from TOS era all at the same time. Surely not a MINING ship of the era. And why would a mining ship be like 7-10 kilometers long behemoth? According to Memory alpha The Enterprise-E was 685 meters long, so .685 of a kilometer. A Borg Cube is about 3 kilometers of surface area per side. And while the design is nifty, it looks absolutely nothing like established Romulan design or architecture.

So in my opinion the Narada and it's capabilities are grossly exaggerated, and thus, poor canon to follow.

Except they didn't follow that, they just followed the "Romulus went boom" - everything after THAT doesn't concern the original timeline anymore as everything then was in the JJ-Timeline.

 

[WindKnight]

Except that's just it: the fact that it has to be explained away with "different timelines" is precisely why it didn't make sense in the 2009 movie and why it still doesn't make a damn lick of sense now.

It's really, really preposterously bad writing to take all of your old established canon and throw it down a garbage chute just so that you can do whatever you want without consequence.

Or maybe I'm the only one who still cares how colossally stupid this sort of thing really is.

Nope, you are not alone. The Abrams atrocity has put a huge cluster-fuck blemish on the Star Trek franchise.

its honestly worse than an episode where breaking 'transwarp speed' makes people devolve into giant newts?

its honestly worse than an episode where Spocks brain is stolen, and his body is driven around by remote control?

Its honestly worse than a series finale effectively being an episode of an earlier series, and spitefully killing off a popular character?

Its honestly worse than William Shatner spectacularly failing at trying prove anything Nimoy can do, he can do better?

Honestly, the reboot is far from the worst thing to have ever happened to Star Trek. and the parallel universe lets him go the way he wants, without throwing out the old timeline entirely.

To me, the 'old' star trek (now minus romulus) is the 'real' universe with the new trek being something like the 'mirror' universe.

 

[BoogieManFL]

The new Star Trek films are good if you look at them purely as movies and not so much like an episode of Star Trek.

I wouldn't have accepted anything in the 2009 film as canon because it made no sense based upon one simple fact in my opinion. The Narada, is a mining ship. Nero says so himself. Romulus was destroyed in 2387 and the Narada travels back in time to 2233 and destroys Vulcan in 2258. Which assuming the Narada was commissioned in the same year it was sent back, means it was 129 years more advanced at the time of Vulcan's destruction. Yet, somehow, it destroys at least 5 or 6 brand new top of the line Federation ships, and presumably Vulcan defense vessels at the same time, but also somehow 49 Klingon warships sent against it as an armada.

Now, personally I doubt even a top of the line Romulan Warship of the TNG era could defeat *49* Klingon ships from TOS era all at the same time. Surely not a MINING ship of the era. And why would a mining ship be like 7-10 kilometers long behemoth? According to Memory alpha The Enterprise-E was 685 meters long, so .685 of a kilometer. A Borg Cube is about 3 kilometers of surface area per side. And while the design is nifty, it looks absolutely nothing like established Romulan design or architecture.

So in my opinion the Narada and it's capabilities are grossly exaggerated, and thus, poor canon to follow.

Except they didn't follow that, they just followed the "Romulus went boom" - everything after THAT doesn't concern the original timeline anymore as everything then was in the JJ-Timeline.

But Romulus being destroyed seems to be purely a product of that movie. Nothing about that movie should be followed is my opinion. I simply cited the Narada as to why it fails at making even basic sense. My main point is it doesn't feel like a true Star Trek show, just a show that has it's setting and characters. It's not bad, in fact I like them both. They just don't work as well at "being star trek".

The Narada had to be grossly exaggerated to make it a worthy opponent, and some big and chaotic event had to happen for it to exist, so it's all built around the need for that ship to be what it is. Anyway, a super Romulan ship(Well sort of Reman too but it's Romulan tech) was already done in Nemesis. I don't really see how the story ended up how it did considering all the available information.

And as a side plot point not really directly related, why would Spocks ship seemingly have enough red matter to shoot off hundreds or thousands of those singularity creating bombs? A small droplet is all they used, so why does he have such a massive stockpile? Doesn't that seem way too dangerous and excessive, especially considering the consequences of a small 1 man craft being captured??

 

[BoogieManFL]

Delete this post, for some reason it didn't clear the quote notification and it looked like a new one.

 

[Crazie_Guy]

More stuff

Well, you clearly aren't more than passingly familiar with anything STO has done. It is set in the future compared to the shows, you know. Things tend to happen as time marches on, alliances shift or dissolve, wars start. Perhaps you could play the game and find that they do stick to canon at all times. Changes from the status quo of the exact time that the shows existed in happened for reasons and as a result of, you know, being farther into the future. It's kind of hard to get into the future without things happening and changing stuff.

Other than that, it's at this point where the conversation inevitably breaks down as one side refuses to 'get it' and trying to clarify would involve rehashing the same things I've already said, which I hate doing. So I guess, try playing STO and maybe re-read my other posts more carefully, I'm out.