J.J. Abrams Talks About Why [Redacted] Had to [Redacted] in The Force Awakens

[UsefulPlayer 1]

First, it was incredibly predictable.

Anybody remember the catwalk Kylo Ren was on? Can you imagine if Han Solo didn't step out to talk to him? At least an hour of straight walking would have been hilarious.

Also, I think everyone should remember that Kylo Ren took a full blast from a bowcaster that leveled entire groups of stormtroopers at a time. He was way injured before his fight with Rey and Finn.

 

[EHKOS]

The big thing I liked about that scene was that Ben's face was lit by red and blue lighting. Right before he kills Han, the lights go out and it's all red. Pretty cool symbolism, even if it is a bit simple.

I really didn't like the movie as a whole. I still want to know how that lightsaber got off Bespin. Every time I talk about the movie to anyone I mention it and I feel crazy.

 

[lastcigarette]

It was definitely shocking to most of the crowd at the theater I was in. There was a loud gasp and murmurs of 'No way.'from the audience.

 

[Kaymish]

the guy in the seat next to me in the theater had a massive nerd melt down during that scene that lasted until the credits he was curled up in the seat when i got up to leave it was annoying at the time but now that i think back to it its hilarious

 

[BoogieManFL]

If Kylo Ren was supposed to be the next big bad villain of the Star Wars universe, then they failed.

Spoiler

They started with him doing a trick that no Force user has ever done. Freezing a laser bolt in the air for minutes without even having to maintain concentration. That was crazy. I went in thinking this guy is a huge huge bad ass.

Then the rest of the movie happened. He got cut in a lightsaber battle against Fin, who by all accounts shouldn't have been able to touch him. He has never used a lightsaber before and he isn't Force sensitive. Kylo Ren had training, clearly built his own lightsaber, and is sensitive to the force. Then we get his interactions with Ray, who only just found out the Force and Jedi are not a myth, but she is reading Kylo Ren's mind, beating him in using the Force pull for Luke's lightsaber, and ultimately defeating him a lightsaber duel. It just doesn't make any sense at all.

With the exception of that opening scene with him, he seems to be extremely weak in his use of the force. You can't have a worthy followup to the baddest mother in the entire universe when they have so little power. I can't even think how he could defeat the rest of the students Luke had and Luke himself. But he did by what I can only assume is pure luck.

If you read this, does anyone else get the impression that Snoke is, himself, not a Force user? It reads more like he is tricking Kylo Ren into being a convincing stand-in for Vader. It feels more like he found a manual on making a Sith from a Jedi and doesn't really understand what it means to be a Sith. Snoke didn't seem to make a single threat, unlike Palpatine who had threat in his every single word.

Why we are at it: That last scene was really super strange. They return to the Resistance base (why not the Rebel base?), Leia and Chewy ignore each other, she doesn't follow after the medical transport taking Fin (who is by all accounts a hero of the resistance)to get much needed medical treatment, and she walks up and hugs a woman she never met previously. That was super weird.

To be fair, he took a left side torso shot from Chewbacca's bowcaster just minutes before. Bowcasters are more powerful than blaster rifles. It would have killed an ordinary person. I would say he was also unfocused force-wise because he struggled with killing Han, he wasn't 100% committed to it and it obviously affected him. Even after that, it took both Fenn and Rey to defeat him. Meanwhile he was under orders to capture Rey, so he couldn't use lethal force to subdue her. Yet he was still winning until he mentioned the force to her and really brought her attention to it and allowed her to call on it for strength.

In my opinion Kylo, while being gifted with the force, is still far from a Sith Lord. He's more of a "knight" level than a master. Still though - had he been fresh and uninjured I imagine he would have taken them both without much difficulty.

 

[Sampler]

It was an emotionally charged scene that shocked every person sitting in the theater with me - and probably with you too.

Really - I saw it a mile off once you realised he's pretty much playing Obi Wan in this movie, reaction from the crowd I'm guessing most in the theatre saw the scene been telegraphed in too.

I also found it quite flat emotionally, it might be to do with the lack of range the actor playing Kylo has, he barely changes emotion and Harrison Ford seemed to be phoning in most of the film so that lost any impact at all for me.

 

[hentropy]

I just wanted to come into this thread to say that I totally saw it coming before anyone else! Doing so will make me feel good and superior and above it all, I'm sure no one else has thought to do the same thing oh wait...

But yeah, I kinda expected them to kill someone off from the original trilogy, and that person wasn't likely to be Leia, and JJ knows there will be riots if they kill off Chewie or even R2 in the first movie of the new trilogy.

He was the most well-worn character of them all, most popular in the original trilogy, had all the coolest lines, and got to romance the lead lady. Even if we put off all the stuff with Ford and him not loving Star Wars aside, he was the ripest to be killed off.

 

[Spider RedNight]

As I tell everyone else, his death didn't bother me so much as when they cut to Leia and she almost just collapsed; THAT was the hard part for me.

But yeah no, it wasn't surprising. The set up just begged for something to go wrong. And Han didn't even get to be killed by a cool bad guy, just Anakin 2.0. Whiny ass. I hate Kylo Ren

 

[crimson5pheonix]

As I tell everyone else, his death didn't bother me so much as when they cut to Leia and she almost just collapsed; THAT was the hard part for me.

But yeah no, it wasn't surprising. The set up just begged for something to go wrong. And Han didn't even get to be killed by a cool bad guy, just Anakin 2.0. Whiny ass. I hate Kylo Ren

This right here. The big surprise in that movie was that Kylo's a dweeb. I liked him until he took off his mask and I noticed he only spoke in angry shit fits.

 

[Trunkage]

They just copy pasted the Obi-Wan death scene from the first film, like they did with nearly every other scene in the film.

Darth Vader kills his father-figure after he lets him. Luke loses it and they escape.

Kylo Ren kills his father after he lets him. Chewie loses it and they escape.


Was nothing clever, or surprising about it.

Wait, does that mean Chewie is the new Luke? cause that would be awesome

 

[Spider RedNight]

As I tell everyone else, his death didn't bother me so much as when they cut to Leia and she almost just collapsed; THAT was the hard part for me.

But yeah no, it wasn't surprising. The set up just begged for something to go wrong. And Han didn't even get to be killed by a cool bad guy, just Anakin 2.0. Whiny ass. I hate Kylo Ren

This right here. The big surprise in that movie was that Kylo's a dweeb. I liked him until he took off his mask and I noticed he only spoke in angry shit fits.

Yeahhhh I noticed that, too. He was uber threatening and awesome.... and then we saw what he looked like. Doesn't help that he's a mumbler and I couldn't understand anything he said without the mask on. Though that one part where he was pitching a fit and those two Storm Troopers just turned around and left was funny but that's just about the only thing that justified all his annoying bitching.

 

[crimson5pheonix]

As I tell everyone else, his death didn't bother me so much as when they cut to Leia and she almost just collapsed; THAT was the hard part for me.

But yeah no, it wasn't surprising. The set up just begged for something to go wrong. And Han didn't even get to be killed by a cool bad guy, just Anakin 2.0. Whiny ass. I hate Kylo Ren

This right here. The big surprise in that movie was that Kylo's a dweeb. I liked him until he took off his mask and I noticed he only spoke in angry shit fits.

Yeahhhh I noticed that, too. He was uber threatening and awesome.... and then we saw what he looked like. Doesn't help that he's a mumbler and I couldn't understand anything he said without the mask on. Though that one part where he was pitching a fit and those two Storm Troopers just turned around and left was funny but that's just about the only thing that justified all his annoying bitching.

The storm troopers were overall good I hope the ST leader/new Boba Fett comes back.

 

[Blitsie]

They just copy pasted the Obi-Wan death scene from the first film, like they did with nearly every other scene in the film.

Darth Vader kills his father-figure after he lets him. Luke loses it and they escape.

Kylo Ren kills his father after he lets him. Chewie loses it and they escape.


Was nothing clever, or surprising about it.

Part of me now hopes they follow the other two films word for word and have Chewie get trained in the ways of the force by a tiny green man instead and end up squaring off with Kylo. I would so pay for that twist.

 

[rayman 101]

The trouble was that it felt so rushed, like we missed a movie showing us how things were between Ben and Han before this scene.

Yeah the scene itself was well done, but they needed to elaborate what happened between Han and Ren some more in order for it have had the maximum emotional impact.

 

[Gethsemani_v1legacy]

Also, I think everyone should remember that Kylo Ren took a full blast from a bowcaster that leveled entire groups of stormtroopers at a time. He was way injured before his fight with Rey and Finn.

This, Adam Driver even plays it up during the duel with Finn/Rey later, by repeatedly hitting the blaster wound to induce pain to keep himself going. It was pretty obvious at that point that neither Finn nor Rey stood a chance against Kylo Ren in a stand-up fight, but that Ren's wound gave him the disadvantage they needed to fight him to a draw.

The movie also makes a rather big deal about Rey's incredible connection to the force. This is the same character that learns the mind trick, force pulling and has force visions without anyone even telling her such things as possible. Rey at her best was only barely able to beat Ren at his worst and the movie gives us lots of clues that that is the case.

 

[Baresark]

If Kylo Ren was supposed to be the next big bad villain of the Star Wars universe, then they failed.

Spoiler

They started with him doing a trick that no Force user has ever done. Freezing a laser bolt in the air for minutes without even having to maintain concentration. That was crazy. I went in thinking this guy is a huge huge bad ass.

Then the rest of the movie happened. He got cut in a lightsaber battle against Fin, who by all accounts shouldn't have been able to touch him. He has never used a lightsaber before and he isn't Force sensitive. Kylo Ren had training, clearly built his own lightsaber, and is sensitive to the force. Then we get his interactions with Ray, who only just found out the Force and Jedi are not a myth, but she is reading Kylo Ren's mind, beating him in using the Force pull for Luke's lightsaber, and ultimately defeating him a lightsaber duel. It just doesn't make any sense at all.

With the exception of that opening scene with him, he seems to be extremely weak in his use of the force. You can't have a worthy followup to the baddest mother in the entire universe when they have so little power. I can't even think how he could defeat the rest of the students Luke had and Luke himself. But he did by what I can only assume is pure luck.

If you read this, does anyone else get the impression that Snoke is, himself, not a Force user? It reads more like he is tricking Kylo Ren into being a convincing stand-in for Vader. It feels more like he found a manual on making a Sith from a Jedi and doesn't really understand what it means to be a Sith. Snoke didn't seem to make a single threat, unlike Palpatine who had threat in his every single word.

Why we are at it: That last scene was really super strange. They return to the Resistance base (why not the Rebel base?), Leia and Chewy ignore each other, she doesn't follow after the medical transport taking Fin (who is by all accounts a hero of the resistance)to get much needed medical treatment, and she walks up and hugs a woman she never met previously. That was super weird.

To be fair, he took a left side torso shot from Chewbacca's bowcaster just minutes before. Bowcasters are more powerful than blaster rifles. It would have killed an ordinary person. I would say he was also unfocused force-wise because he struggled with killing Han, he wasn't 100% committed to it and it obviously affected him. Even after that, it took both Fenn and Rey to defeat him. Meanwhile he was under orders to capture Rey, so he couldn't use lethal force to subdue her. Yet he was still winning until he mentioned the force to her and really brought her attention to it and allowed her to call on it for strength.

In my opinion Kylo, while being gifted with the force, is still far from a Sith Lord. He's more of a "knight" level than a master. Still though - had he been fresh and uninjured I imagine he would have taken them both without much difficulty.

That is some fair points. I had not considered the bowcaster shot he took. That would definitely affect him.

 

[martyrdrebel27]

I don't know if shocking is the right word... I don't even know if the right word exists... is there a word for being surprised by something you knew was about to happen? a way to say "it was totally foreseeable, and I knew it was gonna happen. and I still can't believe that I just saw it happen."

so, this isn't entirely the right place for this, but I want to discuss one thing I noticed about the movie, something I felt was an intentional directorial move... if you notice, the first two shots fired by stormtroopers are accurate kill-shots. I immediately felt like that was a deliberate move by abrahms to counter decades of accepted knowledge that stormtroopers can't hit a damn thing.

 

[Deathlyphil]

so, this isn't entirely the right place for this, but I want to discuss one thing I noticed about the movie, something I felt was an intentional directorial move... if you notice, the first two shots fired by stormtroopers are accurate kill-shots. I immediately felt like that was a deliberate move by abrahms to counter decades of accepted knowledge that stormtroopers can't hit a damn thing.

I believe the best way to describe this is as an RPG. Stormtroopers are excellent troopers, and live up to their fearsome reputation. However, in the films they are mainly seen shooting the main characters who would be several levels above them. The healthy PC glow protects them.

As for 'that' scene, it was telegraphed though most of the film. All the stuff with Han going on about Rey being an excellent pilot? Wanting her to join his crew?

It didn't help that the stupid implementation of the planet-weapon broken any immersion I had. I know it's space opera, but science does not work like that. The only way the cast could have seen the energy beam fly through space and then destroy another planet was if all three planets were in the same system.

 

[hermes]

Honestly, I knew this was going to happen the second they announced Harrison Ford was going to be in the movie. He wanted Han Solo killed off in Return of the Jedi and he never liked to talk about Star Wars prior to The Force Awakens press stuff. I imagine he got an airplane or two out of the deal, percentage of the gross, a promise he'll never have to come back, and a contractually obligated Indiana Jones 5. I'm not sure if that was before or after they broke his leg, but I can only imagine garbage trucks of money with Mickey Mouse ears on the sides. But yeah, very important to the narrative, too, I guess.

I think his contract has him appear in two more movies in the franchise, so maybe he will be in the Solo film, and as flashbacks in episode VIII, or in both VIII and IX. My point is, don't rule him out just yet. After all,

Spoiler

And about the scene? It was effective, and powerful for fans of the films, but it was not surprising. I saw that one coming the moment they both walked into the building, and I am rather slow for those things...

 

[Deathlyphil]

In a similar vein, I still don't understand why either side doesn't use relativistic weaponry. They have the ability to travel faster than light, so they have the ability to create truly terrifying weapons of mass destruction.

For example: take an X-wing, point it at a target, jump to light speed, disable whatever safeties return it to "safe" speeds when it drops out of light speed, and boom. Target (and probably planet) annihilated. Cost to the rebellion? One fighter ship.

In terms of explosive power, if we assume an X-Wing is 2 metric tons that's 2,000,000grams.

E=mc^2
E = 2,000,000 x (3x10^8)^2
E = 1.8 x 10^23 Joules or about 43021032 megatonnes of TNT...

To paraphrase Mass Effect, "and that is why Sir Isaac Newton and Albert Einstein are the baddest mother*****s in space."