Jennifer Hepler leaves Bioware due to threats by fans

captainballsack

New member
Feb 13, 2013
135
0
0
Knight Templar said:
endtherapture said:
It's part of online culture now.
I reject that, and so should you if you think this is wrong.
I wish more people had your attitude. I'm sick of people just saying "Well that's the internet" and dismissing an actual problem.

Gamers have presented themselves as absolute scum, and unless we reject the "way things are", that isn't going to change. We need to shun these degenerates who post on /v/, /r/gaming and the like and maintain some sort of credibility.
 

Carpenter

New member
Jul 4, 2012
247
0
0
Are you serious? Is the first response seriously somebody asking why they would do that?

We are talking about anonymous death threats. It has nothing to do with how bad DA2 was, it has to do with people not having to identify themselves while having the power to communicate with somebody they see as "famous" because whatever media they subscribe to puts them up on a pedestal.

There are people that stalk the reporters they see on the news because they think they are talking directly to them. Stop looking for these silly reasons like "Her game wasn't good" or "the ending kind of sucked" as if this has nothing to do with legitimate mental disease.
 

AuronFtw

New member
Nov 29, 2010
514
0
0
Knight Templar said:
endtherapture said:
It's part of online culture now.
I reject that, and so should you if you think this is wrong.
I can jump up and down and scream about the sky not being blue. Doesn't change shit. "Rejecting" it, as in not seeing that's how the internet works, is nothing short of completely delusional. You have to be lying to yourself pretty hard to not see it; this case we're talking about in this thread is just proof of how the internet actually is. You can't even begin to affect any kind of change without a thorough and complete understanding on the topic; pretending the problem is something it isn't will impede your ability to change it.

Short of government and police regulation of the internet, which people are extremely opposed to, for civil rights reasons...
Sending death threats, and harassment in general, is typically illegal already.
But you're wrong, thats not the only way for things to change as I noted in my post you can stop acting like this is something we should accept.
Right, this is a little more logical. It's not something anyone should accept; it's deplorable behavior. But it's "normal" on the internet, or at least widespread enough that combating it is a constant uphill battle. Some places have always fought it, to varying degrees; even IGN forums have recently starting to crack down on it, with their editor-in-chief recently quoted as saying "When even just one hostile comment is enough to ruin an entire thread, we've got to take our job as curators of our site more seriously. The best way to create an appetite is to feed it and, by letting these abusive comments live on IGN, we've been encouraging more of the same. It's long past time for that to stop."

While companies can hire forum moderators, and companies already have PR people, the internet isn't going to change overnight. It blows that social media has made these people easily accessible targets, but at the same time, given the reality of the situation, there are some basic steps they can take to avoid pain in the meantime.

Firstly? Unless you ARE the PR person for your company, don't have a public twitter account with your name on it. Or if you have to, don't make any industry-related posts from it. That's what your PR people are paid to do; they give out news to the crowd, and sift through the vitriol to find the quality feedback. Plenty of people are capable of dealing with this vitriol (Ghostcrawler from Blizzard is a good example), and thus it's fine if they continue doing what they're doing; but if it's having such a negative impact on your life that you want to either quit the industry or quit your company, cut back on the social media. The internet is dark and full of dangers, and if you aren't up to it it's best to shield yourself from pain.

Secondly? Well... that's about it, actually. Just have the knowledge that the internet is currently full of fuckwads, and realistically that isn't going to change soon so be capable of dealing with it or don't deal with it at all (especially if your professional career is on the line, and even a simple heated twitter exchange can lead to job losses on either side). It's akin to walking around Harlem at night in a tuxedo and talking on a shiny new smartphone with a sparkly gold watch on. Yeah, it's not your *fault* that you got robbed, but you really shouldn't have been doing it in the first place. Your company has people paid to walk around Harlem and talk to the natives; if you are just going to get mobbed helplessly, do everyone a favor and stay the fuck away from it.


On the whole, it's a huge disconnect between "normal" well-adjusted people and those who have literally grown up on the internet, knowing nothing but internet standards. To fight that behavior, you're going to have to change how those people *think* to change how they behave. As any therapist can tell you, that's a huge feat. If that behavior is ingrained over the years (especially their formative years), it's going to be borderline impossible to purge it out of them.

Failing said purge, you simply have to take away their ability to negatively impact others (forum bans, twitter account closures, police investigation, etc). It seems heavy-handed, and... it is, really. But that's the only other option. Most of those people you aren't going to "convince" to be nice; they've spent years as anonymous internet fuckwads, spewing their opinion and hatred at anything or anyone they dislike, and nothing short of taking away their ability to spew will stop the flow.

But that's where the situation stands, really. It's not something you can just "reject" and pretend that will change a fucking thing. That's the kind of slacktivism that led to those guys scamming ignorant folks out of thousands of dollars over Kony. Police, particularly their cyber divisions, have to be more well-staffed and ready to take on these kinds of situations; because online is where crimes are headed. And in all honesty, crimes have been there for years now... police are decades too late to the party. Hopefully they can pick up the pieces, but it's a pretty rough place for the time being - and any professional with internet access should know this, and conduct themselves accordingly. If they can't handle the bullshit that they *know* will be thrown at them, they need to take a more hands-off approach, particularly to social media. If they want to contact the community about something, they have the means: an entire fucking PR department.

Again, there's no excuse for netizens to be... like this. Graphic death threats just cross all kinds of lines. But you can't let that stop you from being logical; look at the problem as a whole, understand every facet, before trying to "solve" it, or you'll just end up using a bucket to drain an ocean.
 

Thyunda

New member
May 4, 2009
2,955
0
0
Zhukov said:
Well done everybody. Mission accomplished. You've defeated "the cancer that was killing Bioware".

Congratulations you spiteful, pathetic, mean-spirited, petty, manchild shit stains.

I await the attempts to defend this behaviour.

...

Video games: totally the entertainment of choice for mature adults.


[sub](Oh, hello there Mr/Ms Moderator. I shall take today's stamp on my left buttock if it please you.)[/sub]
Doesn't it make you feel so adult and mature to possess the ability to 'play something else' if you don't like the choices a game's writer has made?

It's ridiculous. Do these people have so little else in their lives that one of many writers in a major game development company is any concern of theirs? Look, you damn children, BioWare is not your friend. You do not possess the right to demand anything of them. Do you send death threats to the managers of Greggs when they stop selling your favourite? No I imagine not, partly because there is no other branch of society that would back you up, and mostly because that would require going outside.
 

HyenaThePirate

New member
Jan 8, 2009
1,412
0
0
captainballsack said:
Knight Templar said:
endtherapture said:
It's part of online culture now.
I reject that, and so should you if you think this is wrong.
I wish more people had your attitude. I'm sick of people just saying "Well that's the internet" and dismissing an actual problem.

Gamers have presented themselves as absolute scum, and unless we reject the "way things are", that isn't going to change. We need to shun these degenerates who post on /v/, /r/gaming and the like and maintain some sort of credibility.
That's all high minded of you and what-not, but what exactly are your solutions?
Because there really aren't many that don't lead to the much feared 'Crack down' on our "rights to freedom of speech" that are the FIRST WORDS to be raised on the defense shield by literally everyone on the internet in efforts to keep the GOVERNMENTS from controlling them. It wasn't but a few years ago that the U.S. and many other countries tried to pass laws prohibiting and regulating the INTERNET and anonymity.. to the point in some extremes where you couldn't even hide behind a screen name. Sure, if people could be identified readily by name and photo id they might be more tactful in their comments. But anyone with legitimate grievances against their government or an authority figure might find themselves without an open platform to challenge them, opening the door to totalitarian governments swooping in to "punish" those who are too openly critical, or worse, who have extremely valid criticisms that catch on to the greater population.

Bottomline, you have to take the wheat with the chaff. The you can't separate the scum from the pond. Again, not condoning but sometimes there are little evils we must suffer for the greater good. Altruism is BS.
 

BloatedGuppy

New member
Feb 3, 2010
9,572
0
0
RJ 17 said:
Actually she said she wanted people to be able to fast-forward through the game just so they could get to the writing. "Games have a way to button-through dialogue so people who aren't interested in it can get back to the fun of the game. There should be a way to skip the combat so people who like the dialogue can just enjoy that." or something along those lines, too lazy to scroll back up and read the actual quote. xD

Still, that statement PROVES that she just settled on gaming. She's a writer and wants people to enjoy her stories, I completely understand that. Sooooooooo why is she writing in an industry where the story is, for the most part, entirely optional and can just be "buttoned-through"? Shouldn't she be writing, oh I don't know....BOOKS? Or at least something where the story CAN'T be skipped through? Maybe she did try writing stuff like that and no one was interested in publishing it. If that's the case, then maybe she shouldn't be a writer in the first place. I honestly don't know if that's the situation she was in - that the gaming industry being the only place she could get a job writing, having tried and not been accepted in other areas - but I do know this: you might love to cook, but if all you can cook is Macaroni & Cheese, no restaurant is going to hire you.
Eh. I never really understood why this was so controversial. Some of my favorite games of the last five years have had utterly minimal game play draped loosely over extremely strong story content. The Walking Dead. To the Moon. Hell, people even whinged about how Bioshock Infinite's humdrum shooting only got in the way of watching the excellent story.

I think it's fine to bloviate about different directions you can take "gaming" in, even if one of those directions is "push button to advance narrative". The strength of gaming is interactivity and immersion, and putting you IN the story. That doesn't have to mean shootin' fools and takin' cover. It can be something as simple as picking a direction to walk in, or making a dialogue choice, and the illusion of agency is maintained.

Frankly, the best things about DA2 were the chunks of storytelling that didn't get mucked up by the disastrous pacing. I can see an argument for fast forwarding visiting the same fucking cave for the 48th time. Sometimes my girlfriend just wants to see what might happen if she said X to character Y, and doesn't want to have to kill the same 8 brigands again just to find out.

Hepler kinda had a point.

lacktheknack said:
Some days, I feel like proposing temporary bans from the whole damn internet for certain behaviours.
Temporary?

Yosharian said:
But I can't help but agree that she represents something that is slowly destroying gaming, that is the dilution of games in order to make them more appealing to people that aren't gamers. (perhaps destroying gaming is the wrong thing to say, rather it's turning into something that I don't like)
Pfft. "Dilution of games". I've yet to see this fabled dilution of games, and I've been playing games since Zork. Maybe I just haven't been paying attention.
 

McMullen

New member
Mar 9, 2010
1,334
0
0
Fappy said:
I used to post in the Mass Effect forums before the BSN existed (before ME2 came out I believe). It was a MUCH better place back then. I don't know when it happened, but the Bioware "fanbase" is somehow more insane than all the MOBA communities combined.
We could always blame it on a massive surge in dudebro immigration. This was around the time EA was trying to court the COD crowd I think.
 

lacktheknack

Je suis joined jewels.
Jan 19, 2009
19,316
0
0
BloatedGuppy said:
lacktheknack said:
Some days, I feel like proposing temporary bans from the whole damn internet for certain behaviours.
Temporary?
I always thought that perma-bans from the internet was a bit like the death penalty, as far as modern society is concerned.
 

BloatedGuppy

New member
Feb 3, 2010
9,572
0
0
McMullen said:
We could always blame it on a massive surge in dudebro immigration. This was around the time EA was trying to court the COD crowd I think.
I wouldn't blame it on the dudebros. Bioware just happened to have an extremely invested fan base. And you know what they say about fans.

Etymology

The Dickson Baseball Dictionary, cites William Henry Nugent's work asserting that it was derived from the fancy, a term from England referring to the fans of a specific hobby or sport from the early 18th Century to the 19th, especially to the followers of boxing. According to that theory, it was originally shortened to fance then just to the homonym fans. Merriam-Webster, the Oxford dictionary and other sources define it as a shortened version of the word fanatic. The word first become popular in reference to baseball enthusiasts. (Fanatic itself, introduced into English around 1550, means "marked by excessive enthusiasm and often intense uncritical devotion". It comes from the Modern Latin fanaticus, meaning "insanely but divinely inspired". The word originally pertained to a temple or sacred place [Latin fanum, poetic English fane]. The modern sense of "extremely zealous" dates from around 1647; the use of fanatic as a noun dates from 1650.) However, the term "fancy" for an intense liking of something, while being of a different etymology, coincidentally carries a less intense but somewhat similar connotation to "fanatic". The word emerged as an Americanism around 1889.

Supporter is a synonym to "fan" that predates the latter term and as such is still commonly used in British English, especially to denote fans of sports teams. However, the term "fan" has become popular throughout the English-speaking world, including the United Kingdom. The term supporter is also used in a political sense in the United States, to a fan of a politician, a political party, and a controversial issue.

Lest we forget, "fan" is also short for FANATIC.
That. That is what they say. Fanatics are awesome when they're fanatically buying your merchandise, and decidedly less awesome when they're threatening to burn down your corporate office because you screwed up the headpiece on their favorite NPC.
 

AuronFtw

New member
Nov 29, 2010
514
0
0
captainballsack said:
Knight Templar said:
endtherapture said:
It's part of online culture now.
I reject that, and so should you if you think this is wrong.
I wish more people had your attitude. I'm sick of people just saying "Well that's the internet" and dismissing an actual problem.

Gamers have presented themselves as absolute scum, and unless we reject the "way things are", that isn't going to change. We need to shun these degenerates who post on /v/, /r/gaming and the like and maintain some sort of credibility.
But how will you "reject" the "way things are?" Simply saying that changes NOTHING! You're talking about altering the mindset of hundreds of thousands, if not millions of people, who have spent years learning that being a total fuckwad leads to no consequences. This is not going to go away by changing your facebook profile picture. If you're even remotely serious about changing the state of the internet, you have to give it real thought.

What can *you* do to clean up the internet? What can anyone do? Have you contacted your local politicians, senators and congressmen and told them your issue? Have you inquired at your local police departments as to the state of their cyber divisions? Have you gone even higher up and talked to the state officials who oversee said police department?

That's seriously the scope of what needs to happen to effect any change to the internet. There will be backlash, and, on the whole, the internet will be worse off for being so strictly regulated (setting up a means to silence the vitriol will be a perfect framework for silencing anyone). The entire concept of free speech and free sharing is why SOPA and PIPA were brought down; but in order to truly combat the hatred and disgusting behavior you see, you have to seriously question the trade-offs. Would you rather see an internet without freedom, but also without hateful, spiteful comments sections? Is keeping the current freedom we have worth dealing with a few racist nutters or various other mentally ill netizens?

This is a serious issue with far-reaching consequences. Pushing too hard one way could undermine the entire strength of the internet; freedom of information. Is it worth it? Is losing that worth gaining slightly cheerier comments sections on cat videos on youtube, and the knowledge that the already incredibly rare graphic death threats sent by some nutter to someone they don't even know won't happen as often?

Rejecting the mindset of that lowest rung of internet netizens is not a simple task; and depending on how you go about fixing it, given the severity of the problem and its deep roots, many more problems could easily be created. Tread carefully; and above all, stay logical. Weigh the pros and cons of each action. Don't be blinded by "omg we must do ANYTHING to stop these guys from saying mean things" appealing to emotion; going down that path will have very dark consequences.
 

The Great JT

New member
Oct 6, 2008
3,721
0
0
Oh for crying out loud...

Who are these rampant jerks who keep doing these things? Because we need them out of the gene pool. Like, right now, we cannot let them procreate. I'm not saying kill them, I'm saying give them vasectomies.
 

kenu12345

Seeker of Ancient Knowledge
Aug 3, 2011
573
0
0
Super Not Cosmo said:
While I'm one of the first people to stand up and say that, from what I know of the woman, I would prefer it if she stayed as far as humanly possible away from making any games or gaming franchises I might happen to enjoy. She was a large part of DA2 and DA2 was a complete and total train wreck from top to bottom. Suffice to say the woman should probably just go start her own slash fiction website in some dark corner of the internet and leave gaming all together and gaming would be better for it.

Now that being said death threats aren't cool. People shouldn't be threatening this woman, or her children or anyone else for that matter. It's taking things over the line. They aren't doing anyone any favors by acting in such a manner. It's wrong and these people making the threats are wrong. There are countless far better ways to express your displeasure than threatening violence on somebody.
>implying cause she worked on dragon age 2 all its problems are cause of her
>Saying she should just quit cause she worked on dragon age 2
>Probably doesnt even know what specifically she did
Wut
 

BloatedGuppy

New member
Feb 3, 2010
9,572
0
0
AuronFtw said:
There will be backlash, and, on the whole, the internet will be worse off for being so strictly regulated (setting up a means to silence the vitriol will be a perfect framework for silencing anyone). The entire concept of free speech and free sharing is why SOPA and PIPA were brought down; but in order to truly combat the hatred and disgusting behavior you see, you have to seriously question the trade-offs. Would you rather see an internet without freedom, but also without hateful, spiteful comments sections? Is keeping the current freedom we have worth dealing with a few racist nutters or various other mentally ill netizens?
http://www.nizkor.org/features/fallacies/slippery-slope.html

I think we can gently work at eroding internet culture's celebration of the "troll" as a modern day folk hero whose antics amuse and delight the masses without destroying free expression on the internet.
 

Carpenter

New member
Jul 4, 2012
247
0
0
The Great JT said:
Oh for crying out loud...

Who are these rampant jerks who keep doing these things? Because we need them out of the gene pool. Like, right now, we cannot let them procreate. I'm not saying kill them, I'm saying give them vasectomies.
Yes let's assume they are all male.

Do you really think you are any less hateful or harmful to society?

Treat the disease, not the symptoms. That "jerk" that you need to "remove from the gene pool" is probably a mentally handicapped or emotionally damaged kid.
Is that person sending death threats really that much worse than you threatening to "fix" people and ranting about removing "certain people" from the gene pool?

Your post is a shining example that mental problems combined with internet anonymity can often lead to hate speech and threats.
 

Madman123456

New member
Feb 11, 2011
590
0
0
By now, i would shift some of the blame onto the developers themselves. You guys know you're dealing with morons here. One might argue about a vocal minority here but one death threat would be about enough for me to abandon any dreams of making games simply because i would be making them for those "People".
Other alternative: report to the police.

Certain threats are more then the occasional "ima kill you!" which would be ok if a quick "... in COD!" is added;
This one guy made it up to the point where he re-directed his anger towards the Children because he formed the thought that this would hit closer to home.
 

LiquidGrape

New member
Sep 10, 2008
1,336
0
0
Zhukov said:
Well done everybody. Mission accomplished. You've defeated "the cancer that was killing Bioware".

Congratulations you spiteful, pathetic, mean-spirited, petty, manchild shit stains.

I await the attempts to defend this behaviour.

...

Video games: totally the entertainment of choice for mature adults.


[sub](Oh, hello there Mr/Ms Moderator. I shall take today's stamp on my left buttock if it please you.)[/sub]
Pretty much. I love games. I hate gamers. I hate gamer culture. I don't even know why I've been working to enter an industry whose consumers are such self-entitled, confused and abusive little s***theads. I should probably just settle for some retail position and spare myself the headache.

Oh, furthermore, anyone who seriously links that absolutely asinine video by "Instig8iveJournalism" can kindly get the hell out of my face. Flicking through the comment section on that video alone confirms every accusation of sexism and misogyny the treatment of Hepler has generated.
 

Something Amyss

Aswyng and Amyss
Dec 3, 2008
24,759
0
0
Delerien said:
I haven't found anything anywhere, but from what i gathered it was most likely (take that with a grain of salt though, as I said nothing official anywhere as far as I can tell) because people blamed mostly her for DA2 being shitty. Also this Interview has not gone over well:
The rest of the team was also getting shit, too, from the news around the web. Hepler has talked specifically about threats to her family, which are definitely worse (I'm not saying it's okay to threaten someone you don't like, but adding the complication of targeting someone whose only involvement is association? That's even lower), so it's probably taking the focus.

It's gamers being gamers, unfortunately. It needs to stop, but this is considered a fairly "standard" practice.
 

Aramis Night

New member
Mar 31, 2013
535
0
0
When did censorship suddenly become cool? Thousands of people have died for freedom from it and other forms of government control and now everyone is just spitting on their graves.

Don't get me wrong, i'm not saying i approve of death threats to this woman or her kids. However i would prefer to know who the crazies and psycho's online are so i don't have to worry about associating with them. If people's ability to express themselves is so limited, how will you ever really know where people stand? The trolls wont just disappear. They will still be there, just now you wont know who they are till your already in the same corner with them.

On another note: who would we trust to be the internet thought police? I for one don't have any use for the current TSA. I definitely don't want to see the BS that will come with an internet equivalent. The young LoL player was just a sampling of what is to come if we collectively decide to hand over our free speech rights, and it will only get worse.