Jimquisition: Boob Wars and Dragon Crowns

[Gigano]

...
Oh, I am in no way saying what they are and what they are not allowed to do. What I am saying is that by doing something gratuitously, they leave themselves open to accusations of pandering - which, lo and behold, is what we have right now.

Accusation which don't have any effect.

There'll always be people offended by violence or breasts in fictional media, and they should never be taken seriously. They're useful publicity tools to help get the game out to its actual target demographic though. The one its designers choose to design it for, as they have every right to do.

 

[Lunar Templar]

snip

you remember Gwen? Mercedes? how about Oswald? or the bad ass the was Cornelius? (dragon slaying bunny rabbit, all your space marine WISH they could be that bad ass)

just picking out Velvet and pointing her out doesn't make my comment less true

 

[Parakeettheprawn]

Thank God for Jim... this is EXACTLY the kind of thing I wish more people did. Discuss things and go into a conversation willing to learn something at the very least.

Agreed. I one time had a blog post on a different site months back inspired by a lot of the talks about how the game industry is changing and shifting and how AAA development -as it is right now- just isn't tenable for the long haul. I got about four comments that were at least were reasonable and respectful in disagreeing with me or in some cases very openly agreeing with me, the detractors provided genuinely decent counter-arguments on the matter that I acknowledged openly in the comments. Then I got about five or so that intentionally just fell into the "no, you're wrong, I disagree, and I'm just going to ignore what you're trying to discuss in favor of trying to stroke my e-peen because apparently I've got nothing better to do". One of them even, as if out of some vindictive pleasure, stated "here's your one star rating!" at the end.

You could feel the spit and fire coming off of it, and it was like night and day when you'd look at what people wrote.

 

[blackrave]

But there was a way to avoid all crap about the sorceresses design
Name her "Witch" and suddenly her design seems fitting
Stereotypical witches are OBSESSED with their looks
They sacrifice kids to regain youth, they do all kind of nasty stuff to be hot and sexy and desirable
And it only makes sense that their clothes would show as much of that hard crafted perfect body as possible

 

[Gigano]

...
What you are doing is leading the entire notion of critique ad absurdum. Sure, pointing out that Twilight or Transformers 2 are stupid, pandering drivel won't keep millions from watching them, but it needs to be said nonetheless.

Why?

If people are enjoying Twilight, what business do you - who don't have to go see it, and don't have any stake in the franchise - have criticizing it? People can figure that out for themselves, and the people who're actually vested in the thing should determine which path it should take. Let 13 year old girls and desperate housewives be the judge of products aimed at 13 year old girls and desperate housewives.

Pointing out that the tits here are mere pandering won't affect sales of the game negatively, but that doesn't mean that their right to artistic expression trumps my right to express my attitude towards it.

You have every right to condemn it. Just as anyone else have every right to condemn you for doing so.

The problem at large here, and the reason for all this, is the self-conscious reaction of a large segement of the gaming population which does not want to be perceived as the kind of people who enjoy this kind of pandering, since it plays right into the stereotypes about our community held by the general population.

Well, since there's nothing harmful about enjoying pandering, they should simply own up their desires instead. If the target demographic weren't actually that kind of people, then it wouldn't be created. Which would lead to the same reaction, as they obviously won't be standing idly by to watch the games they enjoy being purged.

 

[5mj7R7yf4Dwr3gdZyyu9PeGNwYjlNrjzuh3iTXQG]

For those of you looking for a (halfway-)decent game that could be called Boob Wars, I'd recommend the Comedy Central flash game made for the South Park episode Major Boobage. Since it's no longer supported by CC anymore, you'll have to search for another host of your choice [https://www.google.com/search?q=south+park+major+boobage+flash+game]. Still, it's a cute tie-in flash game and features some pretty colossal boobs.

This was a thing that I remember appreciating as the end result of Anita Sarkeesian's first chapter of her Tropes v. Women in video games, once the initial flash and internet conflagration smoldered out, is that it motivated more rational voices about femininity and female roles in video games (or in media in general) lest Sarkeesian's be the only visible voice actually in the dialogue.

Sarkeesian is a bit more hard-line a feminist than most, so hers is not the only example of civilized discourse we'd want on the subject. Granted, in our post-Christian world we're still a bit weirded out about human sexuality and gender roles, which is why we're get so...funny-in-the-head...over it, need this kind of impetus to get comfortable with talking about it and expressing opinions that don't sound adolescent.

Regardless, I really didn't know what to think about the Sorceress' endowments in Dragon Crown because it kinda blends in with all the other ridiculous oversexualization in games. She and the Amazon both smack relentlessly of author appeal [http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/AuthorAppeal], and I think if it were presented as such there might be less of an issue.

238U

 

[Gottesstrafe]

Is Fantasy Action Figure Willem Dafoe raising his thumb in approval of raising an index finger in protest?

Personally, I feel the game needs much more in the way of half naked hairy Dwarfs throwing their bulk around the screen. There's a considerable absence of the fantasy equivalent of Muscle March in the medium as it is. Why isn't there a Fist of the North Star styled Lord of the Rings game or fan art floating around anywhere?

 

[Mirrorknight]

Yeah, it kinda sucks. I know the artist was trying to go for exaggerations, but the thing is, it's a serious game, not a parody. Pretty much all the character designs male and female just seem ugly as hell. Which sucks, because I really like the artist's work, otherwise. Like Jim said, look the elf. Sexy, but practical. Wizard's a practical character design, as well. Handsome dark look to him. Both the amazon and the dwarf look like Abobo at the end of the Double Dragon movie (I was a kid, shut up). The knight is about 80% shoulders. The sorceress could have been the poster girl for the game if she had normal boobs, but now it's just comical. She could have the most interesting backstory and deepest plot in the game, but I just can't take her seriously now. Which isn't good, since the story for the game is a serious fantasy one, like, say, Golden Axe.

Now, if this game was a big parody that poked fun of the genre, it'd be entirely different. The exaggerated characters would make perfect sense, and the elf and the wizard would be the ones that'd seem out of place.

Context is everything.

 

[Negatempest]

Though I really doubt many women can exist with similar proportions to the sorceress, I do enjoy the design of the game. A large portion of the art from the game is exaggeration in one form or another. Sure the women are designed to look sexy, but there is absolutely nothing wrong with liking the models/avatars. To me it just seems that people are hating on such models because it's cool and hip and popping fresh to dislike sexy women in lingerie.

Why is there such mindless hate? Sure that not every woman is going to look like that but there are women, and men -_- ... , who want to dress and look sexy. To me the intellectual thing to do is accept the difference in people and not force your view of "morals" onto an individual.

To me a sexually objectified woman would be one who has no trail of thought other than looking sexy to produce babies, THAT is objectifying women. If a woman wants to look sexy as hell kicking ass and saving the world, more power to her.

 

[Darth_Payn]

Excellent ideas, Jim! It seems we can't discuss anything, let alone sexism in video games, without both sides erupting into volcanoes of rage (is that a band name yet?) and butthurtedness to have any meaningful debate to come up with solutions. And I thought your dinky little axe was woefully inadequate for the challenge you took on.

Also: Boob Wars sounds like a game I'd like to play.

There actually IS a game called Boob Wars. It's about how rape is a noble act that saves the world.

It's unpleasant.

Making a game called Boob Wars unpleasant...

THAT my friend is a crime for which we should reinstitute hanging, drawing and quartering. And not necessarily in that order.

Hear hear! I want front row seats to that show!

 

[AoshiShin]

People losing their minds over this, have they not seen queens blade or scarlet blade. I forget wich it is called =\

 

[jluzar20]

I remember when Bayonetta came out, there was an interview where someone asked Platinum what the deal was with the rampant sexuality. He responded in a very matter of fact fashion, "What's wrong with wanting to see something beautiful?", which I thought was interesting. Also, keep in mind that Japan has a different sociological perspective to this kind of stuff. I like to think we have a bit of an issue missing the forest through the trees when if comes to this kind of stuff.

I do understand the argument of why there is such a disproportionate amount of overt sexual characterization to what I'm sure many of us would prefer. I would just like to make the point that I do see some positive steps being made. I really did enjoy the new Tomb Raider and I know I couldn't imagine playing Mass Effect without a female Shep. The fact these games have received relative successes is certainly a positive thing in my eyes.

I just hope the video game industry continues to improve on it. I REALLY hope they don't mess up Mirror's Edge 2.

 

[Aardvaarkman]

Seems rather ironic that Jim calls for discussion, without discussing much, and rallies against pointless arguments by basically arguing pointlessly against everybody else who isn't him.

 

[Terminal Blue]

I'm pretty sure Kamitani can handle a bit of hate mail from offended people who'd never have bought the game anyway - and hence really have no business commenting on it, any more than straight men have commenting on gay porn offending them - if the pain is soothed by sales figures. The thing that actually matters.

Yes, because gay men never buy games. They're too busy oiling each other up and dressing up in leather to have normal hobbies.

And obviously, the only media gay people can consume is gay porn, because of course that's the only media specifically targeted at them to the exclusion of other demographics. No gay person would ever buy a piece of media intended primarily for a heterosexual audience. Why would they need to, I mean they have plenty of gay porn to watch.

Maybe I spoke too soon about Japan having a problem with casual homophobia..

 

[LordMonty]

So the game lets you choose a character from a wide selection, choose what you prefer the look of and enjoy thats my opinion. Art styles varry and from the Mona Lisa to this game. People like, hate and hold things with great indifference no matter the medium... the internet just seems to allow people to think acting childish is ok somehow letting them run there mouth with dangerous venom.