Jimquisition: BOYCOTT!

Epona

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Duskflamer said:
Crono1973 said:
Duskflamer said:
DJDarque said:
My god. I haven't watched Jim since the first two episodes and dismissed his show as shit. Something about this one caught my eye and I actually decided to watch it. I'm surprised. This episode actually seems sincere, and I actually agree with him. I may have to give you another chance Jim.
My thoughts exactly, perhaps in the past I've been put off by the intro portion that got paraphrased in this episode.


I have to admit that I'm somewhat in the Apathy camp here, but I think that's because of the nature of the entertainment industry versus, say, the retail industry. It's very easy to boycott, say, Walmart when you can go to a different store to do all the shopping you would have done there, but each video game is unique, and even if other games are in the same genre you can't call them the same. If I want to boycott a video game (or a video game company), it means that I definitively cannot obtain the game they're making, I can't just shop for it somewhere else.

So someone would have to make a damn good argument if I were to boycott the release of a game I wanted.
You could buy used for console games and that would effectively be a boycott for the publisher. Don't buy DLC though.
Here's the thing though, used game sales don't put any money in the developer's pocket, but they're still kept track of. A used game purchase is one more number on the mountain of "how many people have bought this game," and a true Boycott would not even want to give the developers that.
I was unaware that used games were added to the total games sold, are you sure because that's makes no sense at all.
 

Duskflamer

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Crono1973 said:
Duskflamer said:
Crono1973 said:
Duskflamer said:
DJDarque said:
My god. I haven't watched Jim since the first two episodes and dismissed his show as shit. Something about this one caught my eye and I actually decided to watch it. I'm surprised. This episode actually seems sincere, and I actually agree with him. I may have to give you another chance Jim.
My thoughts exactly, perhaps in the past I've been put off by the intro portion that got paraphrased in this episode.


I have to admit that I'm somewhat in the Apathy camp here, but I think that's because of the nature of the entertainment industry versus, say, the retail industry. It's very easy to boycott, say, Walmart when you can go to a different store to do all the shopping you would have done there, but each video game is unique, and even if other games are in the same genre you can't call them the same. If I want to boycott a video game (or a video game company), it means that I definitively cannot obtain the game they're making, I can't just shop for it somewhere else.

So someone would have to make a damn good argument if I were to boycott the release of a game I wanted.
You could buy used for console games and that would effectively be a boycott for the publisher. Don't buy DLC though.
Here's the thing though, used game sales don't put any money in the developer's pocket, but they're still kept track of. A used game purchase is one more number on the mountain of "how many people have bought this game," and a true Boycott would not even want to give the developers that.
I was unaware that used games were added to the total games sold, are you sure because that's makes no sense at all.
I'm not entirely sure if it factors into quoted statistics of how many units a game sold over X amount of time, but some people [http://www.gamasutra.com/php-bin/news_index.php?story=13224]at least do keep track of it. Used game sales can be a gauge of how much interest a game continues to generate even after the first week or month or so when sales of new copies peeks, and that can be important information.
 

Epona

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Duskflamer said:
Crono1973 said:
Duskflamer said:
Crono1973 said:
Duskflamer said:
DJDarque said:
My god. I haven't watched Jim since the first two episodes and dismissed his show as shit. Something about this one caught my eye and I actually decided to watch it. I'm surprised. This episode actually seems sincere, and I actually agree with him. I may have to give you another chance Jim.
My thoughts exactly, perhaps in the past I've been put off by the intro portion that got paraphrased in this episode.


I have to admit that I'm somewhat in the Apathy camp here, but I think that's because of the nature of the entertainment industry versus, say, the retail industry. It's very easy to boycott, say, Walmart when you can go to a different store to do all the shopping you would have done there, but each video game is unique, and even if other games are in the same genre you can't call them the same. If I want to boycott a video game (or a video game company), it means that I definitively cannot obtain the game they're making, I can't just shop for it somewhere else.

So someone would have to make a damn good argument if I were to boycott the release of a game I wanted.
You could buy used for console games and that would effectively be a boycott for the publisher. Don't buy DLC though.
Here's the thing though, used game sales don't put any money in the developer's pocket, but they're still kept track of. A used game purchase is one more number on the mountain of "how many people have bought this game," and a true Boycott would not even want to give the developers that.
I was unaware that used games were added to the total games sold, are you sure because that's makes no sense at all.
I'm not entirely sure if it factors into quoted statistics of how many units a game sold over X amount of time, but some people [http://www.gamasutra.com/php-bin/news_index.php?story=13224]at least do keep track of it. Used game sales can be a gauge of how much interest a game continues to generate even after the first week or month or so when sales of new copies peeks, and that can be important information.
Stats should be kept to determine how much interest there is a game (how many unique people bought it) but they shouldn't be added to total sales.
 

Icehearted

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Zhukov said:
Icehearted said:
They're calling for a boycott on RAGE, think it'll go anywhere? I don't. I think it'll be as hot item and Epic Games will feel completely vindicated in the process.
Epic Games?

Isn't Rage being developed by Id and published by Bethesda? Where do Epic come into it?
You're right. I don't know why I was thinking Epic on that one.
 

Gather

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Reminds me of the phrase "A slap in the face". I've read it so often I just go into a giggle fit shouting out "A SLAP IN THE FACE!" with comedic anger when someone uses it and the effect the person wanted in their post is completely ruined.
 

Superior Mind

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Yelling boycott or indeed laughing at it doesn't bother me. What bothers me, as Jim touched on, is how many people fold after they do cry boycott. Remember the two leaders of the L4D2 boycott group who were invited to Valve HQ to play the game? Remember how they immediately dropped their boycott? Ridiculous. There argument wasn't even based on whether the game was good or not it was about how L4D wasn't going to be getting the support that was promised. If you're going to lead a boycott group at least have the fucking intelligence to know why you're doing it. Also if you don't have the balls to stick to your guns you should know that you shouldn't lead anything.

Modern Warfare 2 was another shameful example, mostly because I boycotted it myself. I hated the price rise, the reduced single player campaign, the reduced multiplayer functionality and the lack of dedicated servers. That, I feel, is a legitimate reason to be pissed off. So I didn't buy it. I haven't bought it. I didn't buy Black Ops either and I wont buy the next one. It was satisfying to know that I wasn't alone but really my reasons were personal; I didn't feel it was worth my money. Still don't seeing as it's $90 on Steam.

But when all those people who were annoyed as I was lined up on release day and pre-ordered it to record breaking levels... well you have to feel pretty disheartened. Any statement I was trying to make was deminished because people are fucking spineless. As a result Black Ops was shoveled out with the same shit as Modern Warfare 2. And people still ate it up.

If you know you don't have the self control to stop yourself buying a game then don't protest against it. It weakens everyone's argument. Like me, I know I'm going to buy Battlefield 3 even though EA is shoveling Origin at an unwilling public, myself included. I'm voicing my concerns, saying I'm pissed off, but I'm admitting that it's not enough to stop me buying the game. I'm not shouting boycott, I'm not stomping off shouting that "I'm not gonna play now" because I know if I did I'd be full of shit. Don't be full of shit.
 

gring

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A few things need to be brought up about the L4D2 boycott, Jim.

The idea that L4D2 was boycotted solely over the fact that it was a sequel a year after the first is just plain wrong. Yea there were some people like that, but what most people were upset about, if you actually looked into it, was the fact that they said they were going to take L4D in the same direction as Team Fortress 2, and add extra content over time. There are videos and blogs of them talking about this, and was the entire premise of why most people bought L4D to begin with. They specifically said they were going to add new levels, new guns, new characters, and new monsters over time because they found that doing that keeps the community strong. They were basically saying "oh yea we'll add new content" as they were already working on L4D2 and had no plans to do so. Essentially, they were lying to make their game more attractive to sell more copies.

So, instead of just saying "well we have bigger plans for L4D", they kept saying they were going to put out free DLC, which they only released one very small map, then announced L4D2. Basically the exact opposite of what they said for months and months before and after the release of L4D1. Also, another thing to consider is the fact that L4D1 was a very small game to begin with, and most people felt that the purchase was only justified simply due to the promises of future content.

The other reason is because they said earlier that the TF2 model keeps the community strong, but L4D2 did the exact opposite, and what was once probably the biggest PC gaming community in history quickly dissolved to almost nothingness. L4D2 completely shattered the community and to say it didn't is just being ignorant.

Some people still to this day say the boycott was unsuccessful, which is also false. Valve openly said that the boycotters had "very legitimate complaints" and the game dropped in price very quickly, which means it obviously had problems taking off. Were not seeing a L4D3 anytime soon too, which shows that they're thinking twice about pulling something like that again, and the amount of "were sorry" DLC content they're adding to both L4D and L4D2 only came when the boycott started. Before that point the only DLC we saw (after over a half a year later) was that one very small survivor map (and even announced that was all they had planned until the L4D2 shitstorm came). Now there's probably something like 6 entire levels of DLC (counting the L4D2 DLC).

Anyways, the rest of your video I agree with. Most people don't have the balls to boycott anything, but say they will anyways to grab attention. I'm considering boycotting diablo 3, as I did L4D2, the always online thing just doesn't make any sense and I don't like the idea that if I get disconnected from bnet while playing a hardcore character that I may likely DIE and permanently lose my character, just over some lag that I cant control (which has been confirmed by blizzard). Diablo 3 should have an offline mode, bottomline. And the truth is that a lot of other greedy publishers are frothing at the mouth hoping we'll all just take this DRM and shut up, so that they can continue to pressure us into more control. So the success of Diablo 3 could affect the future of DRM as a whole, which is why i've been thinking so much about boycotting D3.
 

Kenji_03

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I'm really starting to love his "Hey, moron! You're being a moron and here's why" rants
 

onewheeled

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Hmm. Except for the obnoxious joke in the beginning, this episode was very interesting. I'm really starting to like the show.

I see it as a less professional, cruder version of Extra Credits from the perspective of a regular gamer, as opposed to a group of people that are part of the industry. And with Extra Credits unfortunately leaving The Escapist, I think this show could fill that hole.
 

Toriver

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I gotta say I really like the message of this episode, but didn't care for the crude visuals where they really weren't needed. Which tends to be something I have a problem with in so much of gaming videojournalism nowadays. But I suppose that's part of his "signature" style.

If only he would do audio podcasts or just straight-up stick to writing articles...

EDIT:

Pariah164 said:
So, would boycotting Capcom because of their decision not to localize Ace Attorney Investigations 2 be valid or not?
I would say it depends on how it's done. It's a stupid business practice, to be sure, but there has to be a way to let Capcom know that the boycott is specifically for not localizing AA:I 2, and not for some other reason. In this case, that could be quite difficult, because it is likely that there will not be another Ace Attorney release in the West, period, if this keeps up, and the Ace Attorney games have seen so many releases that it's more than likely fans of the series already own most or all of the previous games. I own all the Western-released games, that's for sure. But if you start boycotting series like Mega Man, Devil May Cry or Marvel vs. Capcom over it, without some specific way of saying "This is for Ace Attorney", Capcom may interpret the lack of sales of those other series as a problem with those series instead of Ace Attorney and get the wrong message. On top of that, those other series may have very high-quality installments come out in the future that deserve consumer support, and it is not fair to those series or their fans that they should have to suffer the effects of low sales figures because fans of Ace Attorney were pissed off.

That's how I see it anyway.
 

Pariah164

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Toriver said:
I would say it depends on how it's done. It's a stupid business practice, to be sure, but there has to be a way to let Capcom know that the boycott is specifically for not localizing AA:I 2, and not for some other reason. In this case, that could be quite difficult, because it is likely that there will not be another Ace Attorney release in the West, period, if this keeps up, and the Ace Attorney games have seen so many releases that it's more than likely fans of the series already own most or all of the previous games. I own all the Western-released games, that's for sure. But if you start boycotting series like Mega Man, Devil May Cry or Marvel vs. Capcom over it, without some specific way of saying "This is for Ace Attorney", Capcom may interpret the lack of sales of those other series as a problem with those series instead of Ace Attorney and get the wrong message. On top of that, those other series may have very high-quality installments come out in the future that deserve consumer support, and it is not fair to those series or their fans that they should have to suffer the effects of low sales figures because fans of Ace Attorney were pissed off.

That's how I see it anyway.
Good point. We do have a massive thread going at Capcom's official forum asking them over and over to bring it to the States, a petition with over 9,000 signatures... But it feels like Capcom just doesn't care. It feels like trying to talk to a wall. And their whole reasoning is ridiculous, which is the fact that Okamiden outsold the first AAI. Well, I think it's ridiculous, anyway. And then they go and put Phoenix Wright in UMvC3 as some lame form of apology, if not just all out mocking/trolling.

Atlus, on the other hand, is much better when it comes to their fanbase. They actually listen to suggestions, and have brought games over as a result, IIRC.
 

briunj04

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Jim, you used to be so raged upon by the community for your opinions and general pompous attitude. Nowadays, I, along with many others, I'm sure, actually agree with you on topics.
And honestly, I don't like it as much.
We already have several righteous, agreeable geeks on The Escapist. I want someone that can present the other side of an issue whether I like it or not.
 

Chrissyluky

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Plazmatic said:
Im sorry, but Jim was wrong on the Left 4 Dead protest, the problem wasn't simply that it was released one year after, it was that it was practically the same game, and that anything else that was added could have been added as an update, and things that weren't fixed in the origional left 4 dead still have not been fixed to this day, were added when left 4 dead 2 came out. and that's just the tip of the iceberg, and if you look, it actually worked, the studio that made the game got kicked out AND they didn't make another game for valve afterwards.
This and turtle rock pretty much disbanding and leaving valve(Save for a very few select people). Was a HUGE turning point for valve as a company, it's where they put the money first and the competitive community in dead last. Consider how many people have left team fortress 2 just because it has been bogged down with so much crap let alone the bad community that came with trading. I loved left 4 dead but our community was just starting to thrive when they decided to launch the sequel and it KILLED us and I mean that in every sense of the word. Our pugbot died, the server operator that was hosting our pug servers completely left. Sponsors started to lose interest, eventually it was completely out of the spotlight and forgotten. The community that was competitive left 4 dead is gone except for a few diehard fans.(Keep in mind this includes the one for left 4 dead 2 as well since it did not get nearly as large a following in that sense.)

Jim I like your videos, I agree with you often but sometimes I feel you do not do enough research(If any).
 

Reaper69lol

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Thank you Jim! You have said what a lot of us been thinking for a rather long time.
 

migo

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Plazmatic said:
Im sorry, but Jim was wrong on the Left 4 Dead protest, the problem wasn't simply that it was released one year after, it was that it was practically the same game, and that anything else that was added could have been added as an update, and things that weren't fixed in the origional left 4 dead still have not been fixed to this day, were added when left 4 dead 2 came out. and that's just the tip of the iceberg, and if you look, it actually worked, the studio that made the game got kicked out AND they didn't make another game for valve afterwards.
That's some interesting backstory. Particularly given Valve's face of being modder friendly, and it's rather familiar given Dota 2. Look at something someone else has made, buy the rights to it (not necessarily from the people who made it), and profit.
 

winter2

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So incidentally, was there any talk of boycotting Escapist in those OMG!EXTRACREDITZ IS LEAVING ESCAPIST AND ESCAPIST ARE ABSOLUTE BASTARDS threads?

If there was, you know who you are and why are you reading this? :p