Jimquisition: Breaking the Bones of Business

Jimothy Sterling

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Breaking the Bones of Business

A new business model comes along, designed to attract gamers with interesting ideas and consumer-friendly pricing.

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Urh

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How many Jim Bucks do I need for the hidden erotic gay fanfiction ending with Yahtzee?
 

Legion

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I agree. I find myself getting sick of gaming and the industry more and more. I'm getting Dead Space 3 because like you, as much as I dislike EA's practices, I genuinely enjoy the series. I am getting Bioshock Infinite because I love the look of it. Beyond that though? I look at most developers and most games and I don't see an enjoyable game, I see for the lack of a better description, a bunch of politicians trying to see what they can claw from us.
 

guyliam103

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I totally agree, I just don't want the industry to crash again.
Also, Euro Truck Simulator 2 is amazing.
 

TheScottishFella

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Jim, your desk is awesome. Where did you get the terminator and darksiders mask?

Good episode though, I do completely agree, I saw something promising but now I see some sort of frankenstein monster that these ideas have become.
 

The White Hunter

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I...I want Euro Truck Simulator 2... reminds me that I need to get around to getting my HGV licence.
 

TwiZtah

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Haven't bought an EA or Activision game in ages now, because fuck them and their fucking greed.
 

Lord Draenor

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RRRRAAAAAGE! Pretty much sums up the situation. I don't even buy DLC unless it's bundled with the whole game and at a ludicrous discount. Don't see any reason to pay for something that's obviously a missing part of the main game
 

Chessrook44

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In short, "This is why we can't have nice things."

DVS BSTrD said:
Who says the subscription based model is outdated?
I'd say the failure of TOR, most likely.
 

Frontastic

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My my that was maginficent. "Fuck you, games industry" indeed.

I feel like just holding up this video and saying "this" even though I can't think of what I'd be responding to. Kudos Sir Jim, you the are the hero we need right now.
 

Kekkonen1

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Watching these videos where you spew hatred at the industry's anti-consumer behaviour is like therapy for me, it stops the hate and bitterness from boiling over. Thank you!

I am so bloody tired of unimaginative AAA-games made by a committee of old greedy men who have tweaked the product so it will have such a broad market that it in reverse effect becomes virtually indistinguishable to all other AAA-games being made with the same goal in mind. I am so tired of watching through last years "best games"-lists or the games coming out in 2013 and seeing virtually nothing I feel like playing anymore. I just stopped having fun with the whole AAA-industry and if it weren't for old games, indie-games and smaller titles such as Xcom and Baldurs Gate: EE I wouldn't have anything to play. Maybe its better this way.
 

Azex

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I hope SterlingCorp takes south african rands. i need me some JonCon merch
 

Canadamus Prime

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At this point I want to see the industry crash again. Maybe then publishers will get it through their thick skulls that the way they do business only hurts the industry.
 

The Great JT

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So what you're saying is "Death to EA". I am 100% behind this! Burn EA to the ground! Chase Bioware into the waiting arms of Valve!
 

Rainforce

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woah...
what. the fuck. is.
FINAL FANTASY: ALL THE BRAVEST
what kind of mess is that D:? I haven't seen any pictures/footage of it before, but wtf...
Also I felt pretty reluctant towards DLC (back when it was new) for the same reasons, because it was quite obvious what that will lead to:
ingame advertising
+ full price at purchase
+ pay to unlock more than 20% of the game with every percent costing more than the initial price.
considering this, they're actually pretty fair, giving you the first 20% for the price of one... : D
 

themilo504

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Yeah the video game industry needs another crash or at the very least a serious kick in its ass.
Also only going to pay for a blue tie alternative skin.
 

Quiotu

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There really is an easy way to do this, though it's already been said many times before. Simply let publishers know with your wallet what you'll accept and not accept. I buy EA games when they don't screw me over. I bought ME3 used, but I bought SSX new... because one had DLC practices I liked and the other didn't. I don't buy Ubisoft games on the PC period. I haven't bought a Final Fantasy game since 12, but I bought Sleeping Dogs and Deus Ex: HR because those were good games that Squeenix had other developers make. Capcom is virtually dead to me, but I'll buy Okami HD just so they know that's the last thing decent they published. And I haven't bought anything from Sega since Valkyria Chronicles since they've shown they can't make and keep an IP to save their life save perhaps Total War, and a dev they own makes that instead.

Again, never say you'll boycot... because hardly anyone ever perseveres enough to stick to it. Buy what's good, buy what's fair, and let everything else fester as a signal to all publishers concerning what you're willing to put up with.
 

MonkeyPunch

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Ha! Jim was raving about that Euro Truck simulator thingy game on Podtoid xD

Awesome show. I saw the worrying trend to monetisation of every little shit in gaming, coming ages ago and now it's starting to unfold - I still hate it.

Also maybe in theory Tribes' free-to-play model was alright but in practice I thought it wasn't very good at all, a fair bit imbalanced and a lot expensive. This might have changed by now but when the game was first released I didn't like it's model at all.

I'm playing PlanetSide 2 at the moment and that has one of the better free-to-play models I've come across.
You can quite easily put no money in to the game and still have hours of fun without feeling underpowered. If you do sink some money in to the game the items you gain are for the most part decently priced.
I feel PS2 often gets overlooked when people mention the F2P model.

On a side note: I wouldn't have thought but Jim and I have similar tastes in movies. Alien and Event Horizon. I adored Event Horizon and not that many people around me ever seemed to like it all that much.
 

WildFire15

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It is getting well out of hand now. There's been precious few examples of good micro transactions, but City of Heroes' Paragon Market stood as a good example to me. The heavy restrictions on chat for free players and the veteran rewards were a bit cack handed, but the fact they gave you store points every month (500 points, enough to buy a full costume set with change left over) if you were subscribed, not to mention free powers and costume sets with every major issue (of which there were plenty) and premium powers and costume sets that were worth the money (not to mention that you could buy individual parts of a costume set if you didn't want the whole thing, something Champions Online should learn) and were frequently designed based on requests and input from the players.

Sadly, the owners of Paragon Studios, NCSoft, sit at the table next to EA and got ideas about forcing players to pay, so all their attention went on Guild Wars 2 with CoH getting no advertising in years and eventually being shut down on some strange wimp despite CoH still paying for itself and making money. GW2 has been a reasonable success but it won't be long before NC will be nickel and dimming players if they want to stand a chance against a mutant vole that's actually 3 levels lower then them but as the player isn't wearing premium armour they're getting torn apart.

Slightly off topic maybe, but NC's actions to a reasonably successful niche title are indicative of the larger industry. Apparently making money isn't enough, it has to make Cruise Liner loads of cash right now and for as long as possible and so they'll twist and push the player as much as they can for as long as they can and I wouldn't be surprised if it brings a massive crash in AAA gaming.
 

JudgeGame

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I cannot lie, I'll be slightly happy the day one of these truly despicable publishers bites the dust. It's a shame THQ went under when it was one of the better examples.
 

kajinking

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Like I said in another post at the rate things are going the Elder Scrolls are going to offer a full set of Daetric armor and weapons right from the getgo next game (for the low price of $15), or how about GTA 5 offers all the weapons in the game in a "Weapons Stash" DLC ($10 of course).
 

Poisoned Al

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I'm going to wait until the PC version of Dead Space 3 gets hacked and EA has to give everyone all the DLC for free again, just so I can choose not to use the overpowered, game breaking bullshit.
 

jehk

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Not all DLC is just a missing part of the game. Admittedly a lot of DLC has turned into that.

The major problem with gaming and these perverted business models is that distribution services do not release any data about sales as a whole. This generates a huge amount of risk (specifically when introducing new IP) and basically forces the developers to take advantage of the people who love their games the most. Hopefully one of these services will do IT sometime (I'm looking at you Steam). It would be an awesome shot in the arm for the industry.
 

MortisLegio

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Wait... There are micro-transactions in Dead Space 3 for the weapon bench? Why is EA so stupid? It's one of the reasons I stopped playing Mass Effect's multiplayer.

There goes a sale from me then and, like Jim, I actually liked the other two Dead Space games. I honestly don't understand why companies want to nickle and dime their customers. All it does is make the customer not like you and make it so they are less likely to buy the next game. If it's straight up greed, then wouldn't it make more sense to keep your customers as happy as possible and earn their loyalty? I just don't get it. Are companies so short sighted that they no longer care?
 

IKWerewolf

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This is a difficult media at the moment to be asupporter of... when the Origin chaos of computer scanning in the EULA happened, it stopped me playing games I wanted to play. Mass Effect 3 was a fight I wanted to finish (at first then I heard they cheated and thought twice) but due to this I took the moral ground and didn't buy it.

The problem is the big businesses are in a constant spiral of trying to create the big games that require that much money that the only way they see to get that money back is to squeeze every penny out of the end user just to please investors that have no idea what a game is (not all of them I'll admit). Unfortunately they can do because they take it on the chin... while they have the money and this is the problem, money is now a scarce resource and the games industry has become to big to sustain itself on the old, high ground, methods of yesteryear.

The games industry needs to collapse and major players disappear but the fallout due to the nature of the beast would be way too dangerous to the greater scheme of things... it would only be ok to collapse if there is a new more forward facing (marketing jargon, great the accountant in me's rearing its ugly head) market replacing it that created the jobs and entertainment to take over... unfortunately the indie market (although it has some gems that could drive the market forward) isn't strong enough and the social market is a different animal meaning there is none.

EA and others have it in their hands to solve the problem the right way or seriously apolagise to all those employees when they file for bankrupcy and those employees who make games have NO JOBS... which they won't because...

SHUTTING UP BEFORE I SAY SOMETHING DEFAMATORY ABOUT THE HEAD OF CERTAIN HEADS OF GAME COMPANIES
 

Therumancer

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Wow Jim, for once I agree 100%. No aside, buts, criticisms, or anything else. Sounds like a lot of what I've been saying but articulated better, from a larger platform.

I myself am torn on Dead Space 3... I really want it, but at the same time I'm not sure if I can bring myself to support it. As I've said before, that's the bottom line, going without intentionally, passing on a game you want to send a message, as opposed to buying it anyway and QQing about the policies.
 

dragongit

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I agree Capcom has been of late a pile of shit. Numerous DLC that could have easily been on the disc at launch, instead people are turned away from even buying the game in fustration, instead of them getting the extra sales of the DLC character. I couldn't even look at DMC because not only did the game's story turn me off, but the "not in a million years" look of classic Dante, was put in a week later for 4 bucks. At this point the only games I may even concider getting from Capcom are future Dragon's Dogma games, or if they ever get back to Breath of Fire. Though the former is already littered with shitty DLC.
 

GAunderrated

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I LOVED this episode. I really hope that you talk about the mobile market and SE a bit more because FF:ATB was a bi-product of final fantasy teatrarythem where its a free game with 2 songs and to buy all the songs and characters that were in the 39.99 release of the DS would be someone around 120 bucks which is insanity.

Or as much as I like the game Final Fantasy Dimensions which did episodic gameplay that resulted in a 2D generic final fantasy from the SNES era to be charged for over 30 bucks.

The greed and audacity is quite frankly disgusting and I no longer feel guilt for enacting the P word on companies that do this. They are more morally bankrupt that I can ever be so screw them. lol.

Edit: I think the only DLC I bought in 2011-today is skyrim DLC. Besides that game I have become numb to even considering DLC. I just see it as unnecessary crap or cash grabs to the point where I know they are overpriced.

I remember around 7 years ago how excited I was that DLC would extend the life of the games I already love. Fast forward to today and you can see the horrible slow moving car crash that is DLC.
 

Mojo

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Jim, you forgot to add a link for us to buy JimBucks.

Besides all the things already said in the comments I also find this shit to be really confusing too. How am I supposed to know what Ill get from the start, what I need to buy additionally , what I can buy with ingame money, what is cosmetical, what was part of preorders and from what shop, what was promotional and so on....
 
Jan 27, 2011
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THEY DID WHAT TO DEAD SPACE 3'S CRAFTING SYSTEM?!?!

0_0 ........WHAT?!

...It is now official. I'm not touching that game. That's just plain disgusting.

If they keep pushing like this, the industry is gonna come crashing down. ...You know, looks like Razorfist was right. The industry has already hit the iceberg and is taking on water, but they're not getting on the lifeboats.
 

Beryl77

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I see sometimes people defending EA's decisions by saying that "they're just a company doing business". Fuck that, what a load of bullshit. There are tons of companies who do very well without behaving like they're related to the Antichrist. It's still their own, conscious decision to do those things, nothing else. Them being a company doesn't excuse that in the slightest.

Also, nice ending. Very well done.
 

IamLEAM1983

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Aug 22, 2011
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So... Capitalism, ho?

There's an underlying issue, too. Piracy.

The more the Big Three will keep stuffing their games with in-app purchases and twist free-to-play into pay-twice-or-more, the more pirate groups are going to respond by releasing full editions of certain titles, complete with everything you should've paid for - free of charge.

It's a never-ending cycle, really. Publishers have to nickel-and-dime their shit because games development in the AAA circuit has turned into a multibillion industry. As Jim said in another video, game devs are turning into tech developers and industry leaders - moreso than NASA. Why are games continuously being hacked up like that? Because we've been trained to expect more.

More of everything. More shaders, more polygons, more terrain deformation effects, bigger game worlds, more expansive stories. More, more, more, more. It's the only basis onto which games are sold, honestly. I'm sure publishers would cover all this by asking for a hundred dollars per game if they could, if not two hundred, but no sane customer would support that. So, they go at it the sly way, by pushing microtransactions up our asses.

So what do people do? They pirate. Which cuts profits. Which endangers projects. Which motivates more nickel-and-diming. It's hard to point out the chicken and the egg, honestly, or to figure out which goes where.

I'm honestly looking forward to another crash. The Big Three are going to collapse under their own weight and hopefully - just hopefully - the surviving companies are going to learn from EA, Activision and Ubisoft's mistakes.
 
Apr 5, 2012
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Paradox is the last company I still by DLC for. Yes they make a lot of it, but it really helps to fund the constant patches they put out. Plus it helps that they don't charge "full price" ($60) for their games.
 

GAunderrated

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canadamus_prime said:
At this point I want to see the industry crash again. Maybe then publishers will get it through their thick skulls that the way they do business only hurts the industry.
Right now they are dying from death of a thousand papercuts. Thousands of crappy decisions that are not netting more profit as companies like THQ and many developers are gone and many of them are circling the drain in the next 3 years unless they get their shit together.
 

Gizmo1990

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When I saw the title I knew that Jim would bring up Final Fantasy. I have a friend who is the biggest FF fanboy in the universe and even he was pissed with it. Once again Jim was right.

Ever think of moving back home and running for Prime Minister Jim? The way things are going for Camaron you would win in a landslide.
 

GAunderrated

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aegix drakan said:
THEY DID WHAT TO DEAD SPACE 3'S CRAFTING SYSTEM?!?!

0_0 ........WHAT?!

...It is now official. I'm not touching that game. That's just plain disgusting.

If they keep pushing like this, the industry is gonna come crashing down. ...You know, looks like Razorfist was right. The industry has already hit the iceberg and is taking on water, but they're not getting on the lifeboats.
If the game interests you at all do what I do and buy used for practices you hate and new for ones you support. That way you don't give the greedy publishers who don't deserve the money yet you get to play games with no worries. :)
 

IKWerewolf

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jehk said:
Not all DLC is just a missing part of the game. Admittedly a lot of DLC has turned into that.

The major problem with gaming and these perverted business models is that distribution services do not release any data about sales as a whole. This generates a huge amount of risk (specifically when introducing new IP) and basically forces the developers to take advantage of the people who love their games the most. Hopefully one of these services will do IT sometime (I'm looking at you Steam). It would be an awesome shot in the arm for the industry.
Steam are actually already doing the right thing in terms of Greenlight, several of the games in my list and LOVING THEM (in between other games I seriously need to finish), if we want better games, we have to say this is what we want.

It is also the best way to reduce the risk; if something similar failed to get interest, an indie game maker they can look at how it was marketed, look at comments and see if its worth even designing that idea.

If you want better games and you have Steam the best way to get them is by looking through Greenlight, its a minimum of yes or no they ask AND will diversify the mainstream market more as global, free market research data will exist.
 

GAunderrated

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IamLEAM1983 said:
So... Capitalism, ho?

There's an underlying issue, too. Piracy.

The more the Big Three will keep stuffing their games with in-app purchases and twist free-to-play into pay-twice-or-more, the more pirate groups are going to respond by releasing full editions of certain titles, complete with everything you should've paid for - free of charge.

It's a never-ending cycle, really. Publishers have to nickel-and-dime their shit because games development in the AAA circuit has turned into a multibillion industry. As Jim said in another video, game devs are turning into tech developers and industry leaders - moreso than NASA. Why are games continuously being hacked up like that? Because we've been trained to expect more.

More of everything. More shaders, more polygons, more terrain deformation effects, bigger game worlds, more expansive stories. More, more, more, more. It's the only basis onto which games are sold, honestly. I'm sure publishers would cover all this by asking for a hundred dollars per game if they could, if not two hundred, but no sane customer would support that. So, they go at it the sly way, by pushing microtransactions up our asses.

So what do people do? They pirate. Which cuts profits. Which endangers projects. Which motivates more nickel-and-diming. It's hard to point out the chicken and the egg, honestly, or to figure out which goes where.

I'm honestly looking forward to another crash. The Big Three are going to collapse under their own weight and hopefully - just hopefully - the surviving companies are going to learn from EA, Activision and Ubisoft's mistakes.
Please don't bring the whole correlation = causation fallacy to this video discussion. It is a nice little scapegoat that they tricked you into believing has become a relevant issue as if it never existed before.
 

Canadamus Prime

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GAunderrated said:
canadamus_prime said:
At this point I want to see the industry crash again. Maybe then publishers will get it through their thick skulls that the way they do business only hurts the industry.
Right now they are dying from death of a thousand papercuts. Thousands of crappy decisions that are not netting more profit as companies like THQ and many developers are gone and many of them are circling the drain in the next 3 years unless they get their shit together.
And if it takes another crash for them to get their act together then so be it. Any companies that survive it will presumably be better for it.
 

GrimHeaper

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Ah for the days with no DLC and games were actually completed and not hollow at all because of it.
I hate capcom and square now.
 

Erttheking

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Makes me glad that I never played Dead Space. See Jim, what's happening to Dead Space now is what happened to Mass Effect not too long ago, that and the introduction of really fucking stupid plot elements.

This DLC mess really does make Halo's map packs seem a little tame don't they?

Also, if you want a mobile game that avoids that, there's Battle Nations, a fun and quirky little base management/turn based strategy game. It's completely free and while it is true that you can use nanopods that you bought with RL money to get special units and buildings, it is possible to earn nanopods in games through certain quests, watching advertisements, and there's a chance to get them by winning 10 PvP matches in 24 hours (or by losing 40 PvP matches in 24 hours). If you're determined not to spend money on it, you can manage to get through without. Now then, I'm going to go play it. You should try too...oh wait it's an apple exclusive. Huh...well if you really want to play it but don't want to get an apple product, I suggest you head over to Steam Greenlight and vote for it.
 
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The only dlc I can defend is fallout 3/new vegas. It added so much content to the said games that warranted a purchase but now.. it's just become b.s. as always.
 

jehk

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IKWerewolf said:
jehk said:
Not all DLC is just a missing part of the game. Admittedly a lot of DLC has turned into that.

The major problem with gaming and these perverted business models is that distribution services do not release any data about sales as a whole. This generates a huge amount of risk (specifically when introducing new IP) and basically forces the developers to take advantage of the people who love their games the most. Hopefully one of these services will do IT sometime (I'm looking at you Steam). It would be an awesome shot in the arm for the industry.
Steam are actually already doing the right thing in terms of Greenlight, several of the games in my list and LOVING THEM (in between other games I seriously need to finish), if we want better games, we have to say this is what we want.

It is also the best way to reduce the risk; if something similar failed to get interest, an indie game maker they can look at how it was marketed, look at comments and see if its worth even designing that idea.

If you want better games and you have Steam the best way to get them is by looking through Greenlight, its a minimum of yes or no they ask AND will diversify the mainstream market more as global, free market research data will exist.
Greenlight is pretty awesome overall. However, its only a small part of Steam and only includes indie titles. It still doesn't solve the problem I'm talking about which is not having solid sales data to make informed business decisions. The markets for Steam, Xbox Live, App Store, etc are very different. There's a huge black hole of available public information about sales (unlike say film industry).
 

IamLEAM1983

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GAunderrated said:
Please don't bring the whole correlation = causation fallacy to this video discussion. It is a nice little scapegoat that they tricked you into believing has become a relevant issue as if it never existed before.
Oh, right. Because my purchasing a game or pirating has about zero influence whatsoever. Because there's no reasoning behind the increase of the average triple-A title's budget. It's all just a happy sack of coincidences that nobody can possibly try to sort through. Game publishers are inherently evil and they do what they do because John Riccitello, Bob Kotick, Peter Moore and others are absolutely fixated on getting themselves a Scrooge McDuck-sized vault of gold coins.

Thanks for clearing that up. I was so naive.
 

Phuctifyno

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Beryl77 said:
I see sometimes people defending EA's decisions by saying that "they're just a company doing business".
I'm also very refreshed at the lack of this argument showing up on this thread. If the company's one and only priority is to make money, why not run a lottery, or a bank? Instead of making product for consumers, they could try giving a shit about making games for gamers.
 

omgeveryone9

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At 3:13, Jim talks about Mann Co spearheading the idea on forcing us to buy things already in the disk or something similar to that. What is he talking about? I have not yet heard about this, and while I do love TF2, I recognize that there are flaws in the game.
 

1337mokro

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I would have gone with "sucked out the marrow and leaving a hollow skeleton" but that's just me.
 

Darken12

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The most hilarious part is that, when it all comes crashing down (or even before it does), we're gonna get blamed for this. The companies are always, always blameless. Capcom is going to say we were the ones who loved RE4 so much that when they wanted to give us more of that, we spat it on their faces. EA is going to blame the pirates and the disloyal customers, Activision is going to blame casual gamers maybe, Ubisoft might blame the indie games, who knows. Point is, we're going to get blamed for everything because companies are enslaved by investors, which means they must exploit their employees and customers to reach the ever-increasing goals of detached rich people who think that if a company made N million dollars in net revenue, it's not unreasonable to demand that they make N+1 without increasing the investment.
 

xsoenx

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Quiotu said:
There really is an easy way to do this, though it's already been said many times before. Simply let publishers know with your wallet what you'll accept and not accept. I buy EA games when they don't screw me over. I bought ME3 used, but I bought SSX new... because one had DLC practices I liked and the other didn't. I don't buy Ubisoft games on the PC period. I haven't bought a Final Fantasy game since 12, but I bought Sleeping Dogs and Deus Ex: HR because those were good games that Squeenix had other developers make. Capcom is virtually dead to me, but I'll buy Okami HD just so they know that's the last thing decent they published. And I haven't bought anything from Sega since Valkyria Chronicles since they've shown they can't make and keep an IP to save their life save perhaps Total War, and a dev they own makes that instead.

Again, never say you'll boycot... because hardly anyone ever perseveres enough to stick to it. Buy what's good, buy what's fair, and let everything else fester as a signal to all publishers concerning what you're willing to put up with.
100% agree with you on this.
I have now been boycotting everything from EA for almost 2 Years and still im 98% sure i will keep doing it at this rate, unless they change their buisness module
 

Grant Delmore

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My only gripe with FF:ATB is the extra lands you can purchase, content wise it doesn't make sense.
The original content cost's $3.99 and comes with 91 enemies and 93 weapons to unlock.
All of the premium lands you buy add up to $11.97 but is only 30 Enemies and 30 Weapons.

But seriously, anyone who want's to say "it's not a game"
Then what is? I've played a lot of shit on my phone with less "game" then this.

I mean don't get me wrong, the extra content is priced outrageously, but the base content is solid.
 

SonOfVoorhees

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EA want to make money, its a business. They dont give a shit about you, just whats in your wallet. Like every company ever. Even those that have free to play, pay later just want whats in your wallet. Just that EA has the weight to push there stuff better. End of the day no one is forced to buy crappy dlc or bad games. Granted, sometimes its to late and we already bought the game. Just buy what you want, once the profits dip EA will learn. Except there are a lot of people that continue to buy this stuff so they wont stop. Like the £15 cod maps etc if a way to make money succeeds, why would they stop? Same way companys continue to post convert movies into 3D just to make an extra few quid in ticket prices......there are idiots that still pay to watch those movies.
 

Coreless

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erttheking said:
Makes me glad that I never played Dead Space. See Jim, what's happening to Dead Space now is what happened to Mass Effect not too long ago, that and the introduction of really fucking stupid plot elements.
Ok...what? so first you say you never played Dead Space and now you say they are introducing stupid plot points because Mass Effect did...right.
 

Mouse_Crouse

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Loved the ending, too perfect. Brought ti all together nicely.

omgeveryone9 said:
At 3:13, Jim talks about Mann Co spearheading the idea on forcing us to buy things already in the disk or something similar to that. What is he talking about? I have not yet heard about this, and while I do love TF2, I recognize that there are flaws in the game.
Namco maybe? Not sure.
 

batterj2

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What is a fair price for a game? Developers have to pay the bills somehow.

These tactics aren't only done by "the big nasty corportations" - indie and small developers have done this before, on mobile in particular. The reason being that when apps came out at 69p they were already slim returns after the market had taken their 30% cut (which the developer never gets back if a refund from the customer is requested), then tax, then split the salaries, then tax on those wages again.

As time went on and more apps became available competition grew ever fiercer, eventually pushing up-front prices down to zero and developers HAVING to resort to IAPs. As it turns out, iOS users buy games/apps, other platforms users don't. So to get any form of income you have to make the game free then hope people buy stuff inside...... which is TERRIFYING for any small developer (weeks/months of work for..... very little/nothing).

What I DO agree with is that companies like EA, Ubisoft, etc. CAN charge an upfront cost + IAPs because they can.... because they have some sweet IP and people WILL pay for it. They can also survive any backlash from doing so.

Games as a service (GAAS) will most likely arrive soon as (hopefully) games become more platform agnostic - start on your console, finish on your mobile etc. However it arrives, I suspect we'll see many different ways that purchases will work. However, we cannot expect them to cost next to nothing all the time - the industry is already fragmenting through a lack of or misdirected funds (look at all the studios that closed last year). Games are expensive to make.
 

Matthi205

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My first impression of the "Free to play" business model was a very good one: Finally! A business model that encourages good content over grinding and bad storylines.

Still, I'm glad to see that EA, Activision, Ubisoft and the likes managed to f*ck it up this much, since it gives me something to rant on about.

The last time I paid full price (50?) for a game was Guild Wars. And for its time, it was a pretty fun game. Since then, I've rarely ever bought a game before the hype ended and I could know what was bad about it (then wait some more time until it's either in the Green Pepper or Software Pyramide libnraries -> those two are where all games go after 16 months in Germany and get sold for 10?, if not less, for the Utimate/GOTY/whatever edition).
 

Mr_Terrific

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I would have like if Jim would have addressed the inevitable talks of "entitled" gamers that will pop up when we gamers start bitching about Dead Space 3.

Also, free 2 play on mobile is anything but. Damn near every game has about an hour of decent gameplay before the difficulty is ramped up beyond comprehension. Ramped up so far, you burn through resources to make it through to the next round and are rewarded fucking nothing for your trouble. So during every load screen the devs are begging you to go download this shit for f2p gold or whatever the currency and that gets you by for a while, then you're screwed. Now they're offering you an extra 10% for their bullshit digital currency just has the difficulty gets cranked up to delete the shit and say you won levels.

I'd much rather pay up front for a game and have a shot at completion instead of being dangled a carrot every minute. And hell, even when you pay up front, they still make the game unplayable at a certain point. It's far worse than the bullshit that when on in arcades where games where designed to suck money out your pockets. At least you had fun fumbling around as quickly as possible to stuff another quarter in the machine before the ridiculous timer expires. Now, you have all damn day hit a button linked to your credit card and pay obscene prices for digital currency.

So basically, screw f2p and mobile gaming...
 

Coreless

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Mr_Terrific said:
I would have like if Jim would have addressed the inevitable talks of "entitled" gamers that will pop up when we gamers start bitching about Dead Space 3.

Also, free 2 play on mobile is anything but. Damn near every game has about an hour of decent gameplay before the difficulty is ramped up beyond comprehension. Ramped up so far, you burn through resources to make it through to the next round and are rewarded fucking nothing for your trouble. So during every load screen the devs are begging you to go download this shit for f2p gold or whatever the currency and that gets you by for a while, then you're screwed. Now they're offering you an extra 10% for their bullshit digital currency just has the difficulty gets cranked up to delete the shit and say you won levels.

I'd much rather pay up front for a game and have a shot at completion instead of being dangled a carrot every minute. And hell, even when you pay up front, they still make the game unplayable at a certain point. It's far worse than the bullshit that when on in arcades where games where designed to suck money out your pockets. At least you had fun fumbling around as quickly as possible to stuff another quarter in the machine before the ridiculous timer expires. Now, you have all damn day hit a button linked to your credit card and pay obscene prices for digital currency.

So basically, screw f2p and mobile gaming...
I feel the same way, hate f2P and mobile gaming because its all a big money grab, at least with $60 dollar games I can get what I pay for and not be required to continue paying unless I want to.
 

Jimothy Sterling

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connall said:
Jim, your desk is awesome. Where did you get the terminator and darksiders mask?
The Terminator is a NECA figure my wife got me for Christmas, the mask was from the collector's edition of the game.

And if anyone's further curious, there's a plush chestburster behind them and a Perfect Cell Figuarts in front.
 

Elyxard

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I refuse to buy almost any 60$ games nowadays because absolutely none of them are actually "60$" anymore. They all come with more and more unsavory and undeserved "strings attached".

EA has been the absolute worst offender for sure. Every product I've bought from them has made me sick to my stomach and I just won't take it anymore. If you're going to force micro-transactions in the midst of a story-based game, you might as well just crap on a plate and serve it to me.
 

wolfyrik

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Thank fuck someone finally said this! I'm sick of harping on about it. I'm sick of all the rabid facking fanbois constantly defending and supporting with cash, every evil, cynical bastard attempt to screw gamers further.

My irritation began with pay to unlock skins for Portal 2. Skins used to be part of the games you already paid for. This escalated over time into rage when I saw the horseshit that was made of Diablo 3 and it's always online DRM.

Jim, it might be early to compare you to a Thomas Paine of the games industry, but stuff it. Jim Paine, thank god for you

(well not god exactly, I am an atheist).
 

omgeveryone9

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Mouse_Crouse said:
Loved the ending, too perfect. Brought ti all together nicely.

omgeveryone9 said:
At 3:13, Jim talks about Mann Co spearheading the idea on forcing us to buy things already in the disk or something similar to that. What is he talking about? I have not yet heard about this, and while I do love TF2, I recognize that there are flaws in the game.
Namco maybe? Not sure.
You're right. it is Namco, it just was that Mann co and Namco sound kind of the same. That happens to me quite a lot when it comes to names.
 

GLo Jones

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Feb 13, 2010
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Haha, I was very pleased to see your shout out to ETS2... But then noticed you were driving a DAF.

I'm sorry, Jim, but that's some seriously bad taste right there.
 

Jimothy Sterling

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To answer the question about what I said at the 3:13 mark --

I was talking about Namco Bandai, a company very much at the vanguard of bullshit DLC. It charged for gold and XP in Tales, it sold you only half a game with Katamari Xbox 360, and it was very much one of the earlier adopters of on-disc DLC with SoulCalibur. Namco's kind of fallen into the background these days now that EA and the like have run with the ball, but that ball was kicked very hard by Namco a few years ago.
 

Jimothy Sterling

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GLo Jones said:
Haha, I was very pleased to see your shout out to ETS2... But then noticed you were driving a DAF.

I'm sorry, Jim, but that's some seriously bad taste right there.
Knowing nothing about actual trucks, I choose to simply dig my heels in and scream that my choice is superior.
 

The Lugz

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as a consumer is is my prerogative, nay my DUTY to find the best deal possible
i'll tell you how i go about things
search amazon for games ( boxed )
compare prices with steam sales, and figure out if i want dlc or not
sometimes the steam price is far and away the best price, sometimes it is NOT
always check it takes 2 seconds to google

invariably dlc is best bought as a package deal, but not always picking and choosing is sometimes better
as you get what you want and not what a developer decides you should want

for example dlc that breaks resource systems ( ah deus ex, saints row.. you are dumb. )
i don't buy, ever.
why? all it does is deprive you of coming up with a way to generate cash, reputation or a general game currency of some kind efficiently it's not like it's really that hard
and if it is painful to grind, and grinding is a major part of the game? that's called bad game design
avoid it, frankly

however 'cool' items like the ability to summon sharks to eat people ( saints row, again ) is pretty much
an instant buy just because it's fun but i wouldn't spend major cash on it, couple £/$ at most

as is extra game content, levels, chapters, dungeons, Armour sets, loot and collectibles
if all those are available as a bundle it's a great deal if it isn't a significant 'extra' cost
how do i define extra? that's difficult really depends on the game franchise and what the gaming experience is 'worth'
for example i wouldn't pay the cost of another equally fun game for the privilege of getting 4% extra content for a game
I've already experienced and am kinda done with

so £12/$19 is too-much for any dlc pack imo because i can buy a whole 'new to me' experience of decent quality for that

now some things simply aren't equatable a game you really love to death deserves every penny it asks for if it's managed to evoke those feelings because it's done it's job and it's probably wise to support that developer
 

rcs619

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Personally, I hope it all just winds up being growing pains. Every major entertainment industry tends to go through some fairly severe growing pains whenever the medium fundamentally changes. I think most anyone who grew up during the 90's remembers how the music industry handled the emergence of digital downloads (not well) and MP3's (not well at all). I mean, hell, the movie industry tried to take the VHS tape to court because they thought it was going to be the death of their industry.

Now, I do agree wholeheartedly with you though, Jim. The things that the major publishers are getting away with currently are downright reprehensible at times, and I too find myself conflicted about Dead Space the product vs Dead Space the game and experience. My hope is that eventually all this will level out and that the majority of gamers will just stop putting up with it. Corporations are amoral, money-making machines. They do whatever they can legally do to turn a higher profit and the only two things they understand are profit-margins and PR. Airing out their reprehensible tactics, and refusing to buy the products they attach them to are about the only ways to actually fight back. That is one advantage gamers of today have that they didn't years ago, people like Jim Sterling, Totalbiscuit, Angry Joe and others who consistantly point out and cry outrage at these practices. Getting the word out is really the only way to inform people enough to fight back. I mean, think about all those poor bastards who bought Final Fantasy: All the Bravest before the reviews got out.

I'd actually be really curious to compare the number of sales at launch to the number of sales post-reviews. Short of the most uninformed and/or rabid fans, I cannot see how ANYONE could justify buying that ga- electronic mugging device.

Anyway, keep up the good work as always Jim :)
 

luvd1

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As long as there're idiots willing to pay, they will still fleece the consumer for all they're worth. And there are hordes of idiots all willing to defend their stupidity to the death. I remember being called a weak, small dicked, penniless weasel of an excuse of a loser coz I thought it stupid to pay a company to beta test their mmog.
 

Atmos Duality

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The video is pretty close to where I was in 2010 (minus the mobile market since I don't really qualify nor care to participate).

The way I see it, in retrospect:
Following the launch of the current console cycle, the AAA Publishers boomed and grew too big, too fast, becoming an oligopoly on the primary gaming market. Demand was so high that they felt they could push the envelope in asking for more, while providing less. Now we're to the point where the hub game (that you pay 60 bucks for) is just a shell of a game with more and more content being charged at a premium.

We let them do this. We let them grow too big. In 2006-07, Horse Armor "DLC" was an outrage. Today, it's a standard business model.

But now the current consoles are outdated and so are the AAA's main business models. The market is retreating to greener fields like Mobile and even Independent systems (the very idea of the Ouya would have been laughed off the market in inception 4 years ago).
The publishers know they have to act, and fast. Desperate to remain relevant and in control of the market they believe they own. They are gobbling up new ideas from said greener fields and are twisting them into money-making engines.

Thankfully, it's not working quite as planned, though this leads into speculation of another Game Market Crash.

Personally, I do not see another game market crash happening.
The crash in the 80s was due to the entire market becoming shovelware-centric; exploitation of IP without a shred of quality gameplay attached to said IP.

Today, we face a different kind of exploitation, one founded on oligopoly, and the solution, as it is to any oligopoly, is competition.
New competition breaking into the market and causing an upheaval. You can see it happening right now, like long-dominating industry giants like World of Warcraft eroding and crumbling before new F2P titans like League of Legends. Independent games flourishing on new mobile markets and kickstarters rather than sequels spawned in shareholder and marketing meetings.

Where it took Nintendo to fill the void in the 80s, we now have talent ready to enter the market from all across the globe. If a crash happens, it will be a metaphorical Phoenix, one of simultaneous death and rebirth, rather than another slow 9 year slog of recovery through someone's monopoly (and you better believe Nintendo had a monopoly following the crash of 83, all the way up to the early 90s).

At worst, I see the actual talent employed in the AAA companies suffering the most, since without publishers they will be unemployed. Given how hard the AAA publishers are still fighting to hammer the market into their image by forcing these crap game-business models on us, and mostly failing, I also see a plethora of opportunity out there for the developers outside of the traditional publisher-structure.

-

I've played Path of Exile lately, and it blows my mind just how much GGG gets it, even moreso than either of the genres' pioneers. Where Diablo 3 was built entirely around the auction house and eliminating any real player input by making a tiny handful of character builds viable, Path of Exile lets the player choose their build without being strong-armed into any sort of gold-twink market (there isn't even an in-game currency to farm, everything is done via barter and item modification orbs. It's brilliant).
Everything fits together nicely, between the tone the combat and the scrounging-esque gameplay.

PoE isn't perfect, and has its share of problems, but at no moment do I feel cheated or abused while playing it, unlike D3.

This bears repeating, but it really blows my mind that a game still firmly in Beta (for free) does better what one the largest and richest gaming corporations in the world shat out with over 5 years of time and money behind it.

Sorry if this sounds too "hipster" for some of you in the peanut gallery, but I believe when you make the game entirely about the business instead of the game, it fails, and rightly should fail at both (game and business).
 

ron1n

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The thing that pisses me off the most about the cash shops and micro transactions isn't so much the fact they exist, rather it's the increasing lack of attention that is applied to the existing base game.

I miss the days of expansion packs where additions were bought self-contained, many months or even a year after the original release. This meant developers could actually spend time fixing all the bugs and imbalances with the base game before looking toward new content.

With the current model, a game's co-op campaign or multi-player might not even work, but that won't stop them from adding new guns and skins that you and your friends can't even use.

So many game's now have become cows being butchered for their meat rather than nurtured over time for their milk.
 

Waaghpowa

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Which is precisely why I'm not buying Dead Space 3. That and the lack of a PC demo and the PC version apparently being a straight port.

Also asking 60 dollars for the game with all that micro transaction bullshit is disgusting.
 

Callate

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It's kind of bizarrely fascinating watching the AAA industry try to self-immolate. I'm not saying I like it, but from sufficient distance it has the grandeur of all great, preventable disasters.

When I bought The Walking Dead, Telltale said, "Hey, do you want to get the entire series for one price"? And I said, "sure, I've heard this is really good, and the price is right; why not." When I bought Saint's Row 3, THQ gave me a "Season's Pass"- with all the episodic DLC- for free for buying early. (Yeah, I missed out on being able to call Penthouse Pets to shoot at things for me; big whoop.)

They didn't say, "From square one, you're not going to be getting the full package after you paid the MSRP. And you may not know all that you're not getting until a good six months down the road."

They also didn't do the perverse "...and then a year later we'll put out the GOTY edition with all the extra content sewn in for the same price as the original cost without it, screwing over everyone who showed their loyalty by pre-ordering or buying on release day" thing.

The short-sightedness of ceasing to treat buyers of your games like customers- instead treating them like numbers that can be plugged into a revenue equation- becomes clearer every day.
 

Something Amyss

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Dec 3, 2008
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I think your video is broken, Jim. I don't see anywhere to buy Jimbucks.

Beryl77 said:
I see sometimes people defending EA's decisions by saying that "they're just a company doing business". Fuck that, what a load of bullshit. There are tons of companies who do very well without behaving like they're related to the Antichrist. It's still their own, conscious decision to do those things, nothing else. Them being a company doesn't excuse that in the slightest.

Also, nice ending. Very well done.
To be fair, they ARE just a company doing business. Doing it wrong. And amazingly, people will try and save them like THQ.

People seem to have a problem with the concept of big corporations. We as a group complain about X being in the pocket of gaming companies, but so are we as a whole. We're so convinced by their PR bullshit that we'll defend their right to make a profit above all else.

Except the right to make money is pretty limited as it only goes so far as people are willing to pay.

"But they are paying for it," I hear a lot of people saying. Well, yes and no.

This isn't working for most people. While EA is still moderately healthy, Capcom is taking hits. Nintendo took a big hit with their concept of overvaluing their own products. THQ made some really bad decisions which were compounded by a lack of faith by investors. Squeeeeeenix is floundering a bit in terms of profit projections as well, and adjusting down is rarely good for a company (except in the sense that honesty is still mandated by law, and not breaking the law and/or going to jail is good).

The thing is, this is the natural extension of a business not adapting to the market. Even THQ's problem revolved around this: "This peripheral sold well on the Wii, so we'll assume it's going to sell even better for the other consoles and then make millions of them! No need to think about consumer response, we'll make sure they want it!"

I've heard so much about capitalism and the free market on these boards from people who also lament THQ. Well, THQ is capitalism: it's a company that made a lot of bad decisions and failed. End of. This is what should happen to bad companies that make bad decisions. EA had more gas in the tank, or its recent problems might have killed it, but it's not invincible. I'm sorry most of this is tangential to your point, but I'm glad there are people who don't run their businesses like complete dickheads because the cost of doing business the EA way just might be one of the biggest gaming publishers collapsing under its own corpulent form.
 

LordLundar

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Yeah, this pretty much mirrors what I've been saying fro a while. The systems themselves aren't inherently evil (save for DRM), it's the rampant abuse of the systems that's the real issue.
 

ron1n

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Waaghpowa said:
Also asking 60 dollars for the game with all that micro transaction bullshit is disgusting.
See, the crazy thing is, I don't even care about micro transactions being added in on top of the shelf price.

That stuff is all essentially a choice when it comes down to it.

The face palming begins when the game itself doesn't even work well enough for me to even consider buying any extras because I've long since stopped playing.

Perfect example: Shogun 2 Totalwar.

From day one, the Co-Op Campaign was horribly broken due to a desync bug.

Of course, they never fix it and instead churn out a bunch of unit and faction DLC. Except, the Co-Op campaign is the one thing that would have actually kept me playing the damn game long enough to be interested in DLC.

It benefits no one long term -_-
 

Magmarock

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Videos like this always make me angry, not because I don't agree but because I agree too much. Also I love Event Horizon too maybe I should play dead space.
 

MaxwellMouse

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I agree completely. There are so many blatant BS business moves impacting games made by big publishers it is not even fit.

I was never a supporter of DLC as I feared it would beoome what it now has. Has with F2P micro transaction games. There are good DLC for sure, but most of it is not.
 

GAunderrated

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IamLEAM1983 said:
GAunderrated said:
Please don't bring the whole correlation = causation fallacy to this video discussion. It is a nice little scapegoat that they tricked you into believing has become a relevant issue as if it never existed before.
Oh, right. Because my purchasing a game or pirating has about zero influence whatsoever. Because there's no reasoning behind the increase of the average triple-A title's budget. It's all just a happy sack of coincidences that nobody can possibly try to sort through. Game publishers are inherently evil and they do what they do because John Riccitello, Bob Kotick, Peter Moore and others are absolutely fixated on getting themselves a Scrooge McDuck-sized vault of gold coins.

Thanks for clearing that up. I was so naive.
If you have hard statistical proof of every person pirating or buying a game and have hard evidence to support this then I am all ears. Until then it is all conjecture and as I have said the whole correlation = causation is a fallacy. There is no proof to this there is only people's opinions, rumors, and excuses being stated as fact.
 

irishda

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I made it about halfway through the video before I couldn't watch anymore. Why? Because this entire video operates under the ridiculous premise that if something is being offered for money, then the customer has to buy it. Therefore the devs/publishers are fucking us over. Here's a tip, and this is just me, perhaps I'm reading too much into it.

DON'T BUY THE FUCKING DLC AND FRANKLY RETARDED EXTRAS THAT COME ALONG WITH SOME GAMES IF YOU DON'T WANT TO!

Are hardcore gamers so fucking compulsive and lack so much self-discipline that when someone says, "Hey, would you like some extras for more money?" they can't get their wallets out fast enough? I'm sure this advice is going to go right over Jim's head, as I see a lot of collectibles there from the incredibly useless collector's editions of various games ("$60 is too much for games! $10 is too much for DLC! But I'm willing to pay $100 if there's a statue in it and an artbook!").

Don't take this as a defense of EA. Don't even take this as a defense of charging people for on-disc DLC, etc. This is a defense of common fucking sense. Jim and a lot of gamers are mad because they think that these types of games are lessening their experiences by holding extra content hostage for more money (that's the nice version, the alternative is they're just mad cause they want free shit). But its impossible on EVERY LEVEL to lessen an experience. Short of giving you amnesia or killing you, an experience can never be taken away from. It can only be added to. That's all these DLC and pay-to-unlock-or-upgrade-content are; ways to add to the experience. If you feel the experience is great and you want more? Fine. Buy the fucking extra costumes. If you feel you can take a risk in trying to make your experience better? Great. See if the DLC is worth it. If you just hate the fact that there's other stuff out there that might make it better, but you either can't or won't buy it, then guess what? Tough shit. Who cares? The game didn't kill you or destroy your memory by NOT buying the extra shit, so it hasn't taken away ANYTHING of your experience with that game. I didn't buy any of the extra costumes the original Dead Space offered right from the start. ZOMG! BUT THEN HOW COULD YOU PLAY THE GAME?!!! The only time this practice is worth bitching about is for games don't work without paying for certain things. And no, that doesn't include on-disc DLC, multiplayer passes, etc. You know why? Cause the game doesn't need those to work, unless it's a purely multiplayer game, and even then a monthly fee to maintain servers is understandable isn't it? I mean really, bitching because CHEAT CODES cost money now? Really? "Why can't I run around in big head mode for free!!!!!" Fuck you, Jim.

It's shit like this that turns me off not from the industry, but from the gamers. Only the fucking gamers who prop up shit business practices by buying into them, would have the balls to rip on those very same practices. You can buy games. That's fine. I encourage it. It's because people didn't buy games that THQ shut down. But you DON'T HAVE TO BUY ANYTHING EXTRA ATTACHED TO IT! So no, EA isn't destroying gaming by perverting certain business models. Gamers are perverting it by buying into them. And even then EA's models don't preclude other companies from carrying out their models. It's like the old riddle, "If the devil tempts a man, and the man succumbs to temptation; is it the devil's fault for tempting him? Or is it his fault for falling to temptation?"

TL;DR: If you don't like the extras, don't buy them. You're not losing anything by NOT purchasing DLC, extra costumes, or fucking cheat codes.
 

GonzoGamer

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Urh said:
How many Jim Bucks do I need for the hidden erotic gay fanfiction ending with Yahtzee?
Best post, and 3 posts in too.

If I were a trucker, I would probably listen to a lot of Peter Gabriel too.

It seems that this whole generation has been sandbagged by publishers (and even the console makers) trying to balance off how much money they can choke out of the hardcore fanboys without disenfranchising too many of the less regular gamers. I keep thinking that they keep overestimating how many gamers are suckers, but they usually tend to prove me wrong.

I may be a bit picky (I thought the GTA4 DLC was way overpriced at $20) but it seems for now that the most heinous ripoffs aren't so widespread that the whole industry would crash.
 

Erttheking

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Coreless said:
erttheking said:
Makes me glad that I never played Dead Space. See Jim, what's happening to Dead Space now is what happened to Mass Effect not too long ago, that and the introduction of really fucking stupid plot elements.
Ok...what? so first you say you never played Dead Space and now you say they are introducing stupid plot points because Mass Effect did...right.
Noooooooo, I said that MASS EFFECT had been introducing really stupid plot elements.
 

Metalix Knightmare

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omgeveryone9 said:
At 3:13, Jim talks about Mann Co spearheading the idea on forcing us to buy things already in the disk or something similar to that. What is he talking about? I have not yet heard about this, and while I do love TF2, I recognize that there are flaws in the game.
He said NAMCO. Hence the picture of Darth Vader who was in the PS3 version of Soul Caliber 4, and was DLC for 360 owners.
 

Jimothy Sterling

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The sad thing is, EA actually sort of had a tolerable model on Mass Effect 3. It was in a subsection of the game that is entirely optional, and is, in itself entirely optional, as you can earn the in game currency to purchase new weapons simply from grinding the MP. And considering that the only reason you should want the new weapons and characters is to grind the MP some more, you absolutely do not have to buy anything unless you really feel like it. Which is fair enough, in my estimate. I am sure there's people buying surplus packages, but they're only speeding up a process that happens anyway if you spend time playing the game. Of course, whether the actual odds are of ultra rare drops showing up more in paid contents is up for discussion. But it does not bother me per se, and the fact that they at least tried to minimize damage with the extended cut of the ending coupled with several maps and characters that are offered up for free , I was almost ready forgive the fact that Jarvik is locked content to anyone who did not buy the special edition, and think "hey, maybe they're learning not to be huge dicks after all. A fact reinforced through Kingdoms of Amalur's ( the only other EA game I played last year) actually reasonably sizeable DLC content.


Now this. The changes being made to Dead Space are worrisome indeed. It will never be my favourite franchise, and cannot consider it a horror game, but it's a well thought out shooter, filled with atmosphere, and it's own personality. I like the fact that we have to think twice on whether to use your hard owned node on a warehouse door or upgrade a weapon; I like that the game moves at a slow and sluggish pace contrary to the fast paced action of a Gears of war, giving it all the better sense of urgency. I like that I am constantly mentally calculating if I have enough ammo, health packs, and the right weapons for the next stretch of terrain. And EA seems hell bent on detroying that.

I did not make it through the whole demo. The co-op felt contrived to me, for a start, and more than once I felt like my partner was hindering my progress and vice versa. It also completely screws up the pacing, and once the first cover based shooting section showed up, I just gave up. The news of paying for items means that they are shoehorning the elements that were tolerable in mass effect 3 as an active game mechanic, and that is just beyond my level of tolerance.
 

Airon

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Thumbs up!

Support the good publishers(like Valve).

I'm selling TF2 hats for Jim Bucks. I need more, 'cause Jim said so !!!!!
 

Trishbot

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I'm still buying Dead Space 3 because I love the franchise, BUT, depending on how the micro-transactions go, I may be writing EA directly.

People all the time say "vote or speak with your wallet", but that's missing 50% of what you need to do. Silence about it can send either no message or the wrong message. Don't JUST speak with your wallet, but also take that next step and tell the companies in charge WHY you didn't buy it. I'm amazed at how almost nobody does that second part.

When I was upset with Capcom's frequent DLC scams, I didn't buy their games. But I also told them why. When they refused to answer or to listen, I wrote the Better Business Bureau, listed my complaints against their anti-consumer behavior and business practices, and the BBB contacted Capcom on my behalf... and that definitely got results.

You gotta do more than "not buy". You gotta be vocal directly at them.

YOU are the customer. YOU are the buyer. YOU have the power of companies. Big companies like EA and Activision and Ubisoft and Capcom want you to think you don't have any power or influence over them, but they're entirely wrong. They are at the whims of their consumers, and there are PLENTY of laws in place to defend you from anti-consumer practices and behavior. They just want you to think they don't exist and you're helpless to resist or change anything.

You've all the power in the world to show them they're wrong.
 

Beryl77

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Zachary Amaranth said:
Beryl77 said:
I see sometimes people defending EA's decisions by saying that "they're just a company doing business". Fuck that, what a load of bullshit. There are tons of companies who do very well without behaving like they're related to the Antichrist. It's still their own, conscious decision to do those things, nothing else. Them being a company doesn't excuse that in the slightest.

Also, nice ending. Very well done.
To be fair, they ARE just a company doing business. Doing it wrong. And amazingly, people will try and save them like THQ.
Yeah, it was just directed at people that defend the bad decisions and say that that's what a company is supposed to do, that those are actually good decisions for a company. I've seen that argument quite a few times on these forums.

Anyway, I agree with you. Some of the companies grew too big, too quick. People were willing to pay for many things and companies started to get the feeling that they can push the boundaries much further but that willingness to pay only goes so far. While I love games, in the end they're still "just entertainment" and while EA is one of the top players, they hardly have a monopoly. There are too many other companies who are willing to listen to customers, to afford that kind of behavior and contrary to popular opinion, people aren't idiots.

The problem for companies like EA is often that they care too much for the shareholders. Nowadays, investors just want quick money. They invest in a company, wait until it makes profits and leave it again. They're only interested in short term money making. EA want to make sure that those people keep investing in EA, so they promise quick money. Most of their decisions are based on that idea, they don't care about whether someone will buy a game in five years, they just want to sell it now, to make profit now. They don't care much about the future, they just live in the present but that's not good for a big company.
Out there are many gaming companies coming up with new things, trying to figure out where the industry is heading and following that trend, not attempting to bend it to their will.

I mean, when was the last time that Riccitiello actually spoke to gamers? Most things he's said in the last few years were aimed at shareholders, showing them that EA has great ideas to make money. Like in Dead Space 3 with the in-game 'microtransactions', as mentioned in the video. That feature is solely there to make money for EA and make the shareholders happy, it has nothing good to offer for consumers that couldn't have been there for free.

They seem to forget however that it's their customers who make them profitable, not the shareholders and I think that's why EA won't last much longer if they keep operating the way they do. Like you said, they'll crumble under the weight of their bad decisions, eventually.
 

Jimothy Sterling

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omgeveryone9 said:
At 3:13, Jim talks about Mann Co spearheading the idea on forcing us to buy things already in the disk or something similar to that. What is he talking about? I have not yet heard about this, and while I do love TF2, I recognize that there are flaws in the game.
He said Namco. Namco Bandai [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Namco_Bandai_Games].
 

braincore02

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Amen brutha! I wish people would stop playing into these games. We need to vote with our wallets en mass, that's all these people listen to.
 

lasati

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I don't see why gamers have a right to dictate a game's business model. The day game studios can DEMAND that players buy their game to keep the bills paid and the developers employed is the day that a given player can DEMAND that a studio caters to what that specific player wants to pay. Note I say "want to pay" rather than "willing to pay." Clearly, gamers are willing to pay $60 for a box, tolerate an in-game itemshop, and then buy DLC. For now. From some publishers, on some franchises. Because they do.

"When will it be enough? When the market crashes again?"

Yes. And this is a good thing. The media dinosaurs will die by their own hand, and it is a long time coming. Today, a couple of guys/girls can use Unity and make a $15 steam game fairly easily. How revolutionary is this -- you pay once, and get all the content! The point at which most gamers feel such "AA" games offer MORE value that the high budget money-grabbing monstrosities is the day the industry will crash, and be rebuilt as something leaner and better poised to deliver quality products.

The fact is that "publishing" as a service is dying rather quickly. EA and Ubi used to sell games only by virtue of the fact the barrier to entry for getting a game on the market (any game at all) was quite large, and quite exclusive. Used to be the case that getting your product "on the shelves" was the sole dominion of the big publishing houses. But the Age of Shelves is almost over, due to better and easier forms of digital payment and distribution.

Once EA and Ubi are forced to into genuine competition with developers who are paying none of their bloated overhead (legions of Marketing and Publishing executives earning six figure salaries, for starters... which you honestly did need to get prime shelf space at the Best Buy), it will be over.
 

Colt47

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I never thought I'd feel dignified playing the old infinity engine games, Terraria, and Dark Souls. Honestly, I've already given up on buying new AAA titles because there's no point to it.
 

Akytalusia

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is really what they're doing these days? that's really fucked up. i hope people start getting the message faster and start acting sooner. the momentum of this thing is ready to be confronted.

also, fuck your dlc. call me a pirate if you want, but i'm gonna thank god for you anyway. and i didn't even pay.
 

Atmos Duality

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irishda said:
TL;DR: If you don't like the extras, don't buy them. You're not losing anything by NOT purchasing DLC, extra costumes, or fucking cheat codes.
I agree that's the proper consumer response: If it costs too much, don't buy it.

But there is absolutely nothing wrong with criticizing the practices that cause those costs to go above acceptable in the first place. ALL of the practices mentioned in the video are unquestionably "less for more" cash-grabs or equivalent price hikes.

If you want to advocate change, you have to speak. If you want to cause change, you have to act.
 

Aeonknight

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Airon said:
Thumbs up!

Support the good publishers(like Valve).

I'm selling TF2 hats for Jim Bucks. I need more, 'cause Jim said so !!!!!
My head just exploded over the irony of that statement. In a video where Jim trashes on micro-transactions, you bring up Hat Fortress 2?

also:

 

Wolcik

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I f***ing want my "thanks the god" ending cause otherwise I don't know what to - where am I suppose to pay, again?

The think about another crash is a very interesting idea - wonder which companies would die from it.
 

Sheo_Dagana

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I, like Jim, am just as disgusted with EA as any other gamer out there, but I will still be purchasing Dead Space 3. Why? Because EA has Visceral Games over a barrel with this "sell three times as many copies as you did Dead Space 2 with next to none of the marketing, or we're tanking your IP" crap. It's fucking bullshit and is the epitome of how EA does business; don't craft your game for an audience, craft it for everyone, because if we can't get the entire world behind this game, why should we even bother? Even though there's little hope of Dead Space 3 making it's 5 million mark, and my contribution is unlikely to make a huge difference, I love Dead Space and I want to show my support for the people that slaved over it. Sadly, that also means giving money to EA.

Micro-transactions are wrong, they're complete and utter bullshit, and it's very sad that this is just one more thing working against the Dead Space franchise. Gamers are going to be turned off by this to the point of not picking up the game. Even scrolling through this thread, I see a lot of people saying "not buying it now", which I can completely understand; I am also at odds with wanting/not wanting to give more money to EA. The bastardization of the F2P market is just one of the many subjects covered in this video that make me very sad.
 

teamcharlie

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Lovely vid, Jim. It's good to see people with integrity try to remind consumers and the industry at large that a reckoning is coming sooner rather than later as regards corporate profits.

As always, I suspect that the culprit isn't so much greed as it is fear: fear of losing stockholder faith, fear of losing jobs, fear of change, fear of posting a loss, fear of risk. I think that even more than greed is what results in the constant path-of-least-resistance attitude we see in the corporate world. The big players are simply too rich to risk any of it to make something truly great these days, even if that risk has the potential to pay off big. Greed makes you gamble. Fear makes you hoard.
 

WildFire15

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Sheo_Dagana said:
I, like Jim, am just as disgusted with EA as any other gamer out there, but I will still be purchasing Dead Space 3. Why? Because EA has Visceral Games over a barrel with this "sell three times as many copies as you did Dead Space 2 with next to none of the marketing, or we're tanking your IP" crap. It's fucking bullshit and is the epitome of how EA does business; don't craft your game for an audience, craft it for everyone, because if we can't get the entire world behind this game, why should we even bother? Even though there's little hope of Dead Space 3 making it's 5 million mark, and my contribution is unlikely to make a huge difference, I love Dead Space and I want to show my support for the people that slaved over it. Sadly, that also means giving money to EA.

Micro-transactions are wrong, they're complete and utter bullshit, and it's very sad that this is just one more thing working against the Dead Space franchise. Gamers are going to be turned off by this to the point of not picking up the game. Even scrolling through this thread, I see a lot of people saying "not buying it now", which I can completely understand; I am also at odds with wanting/not wanting to give more money to EA. The bastardization of the F2P market is just one of the many subjects covered in this video that make me very sad.
This was kinda what I was getting at earlier with NCsoft. It seems publishers aren't interested in making solid products that appeal to an audience, but the sort of product that appeals to EVERYONE, as if they can make fans of both action and horror games interested then they might get the interest of the dedicated action and dedicate horror fans as well.
While Guild Wars 2 did it's own thing, it was still aimed at an 'international' audience while City of Heroes wasn't really of interest to Eastern players or for grinders or PvPers, so rather then keep it running for the 300,000 plus active players who were keeping the game profitable, NCsoft put it on the chopping block instead, shut down the studio running it, firing all 80 staff there and throwing the IP into it's deepest and darkest vault and refusing to sell it. This idea that you can't aim to please a group of players but instead have to aim for EVERYONE is pretty poisonous and will run major publishers into ruin before long, especially with the stupefying amount of money they throw behind these games.
 

Jimothy Sterling

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Anyone remotely familiar with business practices knew what DLC was going to become eventually. It's not really worth getting mad anymore. Just buy what you trust. If the company goes to far, don't buy. It's conditioning. If there are people who are willing to spend more than three times the price of a game for custom armor that no one cares about, then let them buy it. Maybe a specific market will open up for those people and there can be companies that specialize in that type of business. EA and Activision would be great in that business.
 

Evil Smurf

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Jim I love you and want your babies. Best episode yet.

Also TF2 proves that free to play still lives.
 

Jimothy Sterling

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people seem to be under the deluded belief that the big publishers are run by people who love games, they arent they are a business purely designed to make their shareholders $$$. the industry is going through a period of experimentation where publishers are attempting to see exactly how far they can push things before customer dissatisfaction with the product outweighs profit from these business practices.

we joke about the EA boss wanting people to pay money for an ammo clip to reload in game but soon we will start to see that level of "service" the dead space 3 paying for crafting in single player is not far off it. eventually they will go too far and even your customers who religiously pick up your games just because its got that particular title fifa. battlefield or call of duty for instance will go screw that but until that time these will keep pushing the envelope.

dont loose hope though. look at the turn around with ubisoft. they lost 90% of their pc sales overnight and eventually gave in. so it can work to change business paractice
 

Dead Seerius

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You know, it pains me to say it but I've been getting the feeling we might be in for another industry crash in the near future, and I would normally consider myself a very optimistic person. I hate doom-sayers, yet this borderline criminal squelching of paying consumers for more cash coupled with a few other recent industry practices that seem to be bringing the market nowhere but down has me worried.

I really hope I'm wrong. At the same time, though, what will it take to give these publishers a fucking wake-up call?

Great ending, by the way.
 

irishda

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Atmos Duality said:
irishda said:
TL;DR: If you don't like the extras, don't buy them. You're not losing anything by NOT purchasing DLC, extra costumes, or fucking cheat codes.
I agree that's the proper consumer response: If it costs too much, don't buy it.

But there is absolutely nothing wrong with criticizing the practices that cause those costs to go above acceptable in the first place. ALL of the practices mentioned in the video are unquestionably "less for more" cash-grabs or equivalent price hikes.

If you want to advocate change, you have to speak. If you want to cause change, you have to act.
It would be better serving though if he hadn't said in the video, multiple times, that he'd be willing to pay if the developers didn't A: charge so much or B: "beat him over the head with it." Which I'm not even sure I know what he's talking about. The closest I can think is that guy in Dragon Age that talks to you about some important mission, and then the game pauses to tell you you have to buy the DLC. But that's solved by just not talking to the guy again. If that breaks you out of your gaming funk for more than five minutes (or however long until you talk to someone else) than something's wrong with the game itself to begin with.

No, Jim's not arguing against the practices, as he made very clear in the video. He's just mad that they're "forcing him to" or "charging him too much". Which, on both accounts, are fucking stupid reasons. If he REALLY wanted to speak out about it, he would've made a video about how retarded you have to be to spend money on a fucking cheat code or a hat for your character. But no, instead its a video on how the video game industry will burn and fall because publishers have the audacity to fish for people stupid enough or wealthy enough to pay for extra shit.
 

irishda

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Evil Smurf said:
Jim I love you and want your babies. Best episode yet.

Also TF2 proves that free to play still lives.
BUT IT OFFERS HATS FOR MONEY AT NO COMPETITIVE BENEFIT TO YOUR CHARACTER! THE CRASH OF THE VIDEO GAME INDUSTRY IS UPON US! Oh wait, it's Valve, not EA. That's fine then. EA WILL MAKE YOU PAY FOR AMMO! UBISOFT WILL CHARGE YOU TO MAKE YOUR CHARACTER WALK!

(If you feel the tone is inappropriate to your comment, I apologize. I was looking to imitate Jim Sterling's apocalyptic tone in the video. Nothing against you personally.)
 

spartandude

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Atmos Duality said:
irishda said:
TL;DR: If you don't like the extras, don't buy them. You're not losing anything by NOT purchasing DLC, extra costumes, or fucking cheat codes.
I agree that's the proper consumer response: If it costs too much, don't buy it.

But there is absolutely nothing wrong with criticizing the practices that cause those costs to go above acceptable in the first place. ALL of the practices mentioned in the video are unquestionably "less for more" cash-grabs or equivalent price hikes.

If you want to advocate change, you have to speak. If you want to cause change, you have to act.

Atmos Duality... you sir are my new solemate
i get so sick of the "you dont like then dont buy it and shut up" mentality so many people on these forums have but you... i just want you to hold me

capcha- enjoy life you know what, i think i can now
 

Ukomba

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They had an ok balance going with the micro transactions of Mass Effect 3. The packs were over priced, imo, but not necessary at all. A lot of these other ones though... it's just too invasive, it takes you right out of the game.
 

KiKiweaky

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The ending was great hahahaha you have a serious point Jim I just hope the money grabbing tramps leading the headlong charge of the industry into this black hole realize that by turning business models like this on their head they are ultimately going to do more harm than good.

Maybe if they keep it up they might run out of customers :D mall chance I know but you never know.
 

Right Hook

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idodo35 said:
yellow tie alternate skin? fuck yea!
I picked it up right away and I can't be the only one who purchased the Jim Sterling 'Yellow Tie' Alternate Skin, not at a cost of ONLY $20 Jim Bucks*, my Sterlo-Wallet practically opened on its own!



God, it is so gloriously yellow.

*An individual Jim Buck has a retail value of 10 American dollars.
 

mjc0961

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I keep throwing money at my computer, but still no Jim Bucks! What the hell is this shit?!

Anyway, amen Jim. A-fucking-men. Not surprised about the Dead Space weapon crafting thing though, they did the same shit in Mass Effect 3. When you play Mass Effect 3 you get a tiny amount of in game money. To get new weapons, do you just buy the weapons you want or earn weapons as you level up? No. You buy a pack and get a random assortment of shit. And the shitty packs are the only ones you can realistically afford with the tiny amount of money you earn by playing the game, but that's okay! You can BUY some Mass Effect bucks with REAL FUCKING MONEY so you can afford some decent weapon packs, which still won't contain and weapons that are any good for your current character, so go ahead and buy some MORE fucking Mass Effect bucks with real fucking money to try again! And people praise this multiplayer mode just because EA throws them a free map pack or character every now and then. You morons, you already spent far more than the map or character was worth by buying those stupid weapon packs. They aren't doing you a favor, they're ripping you off massively, and you're fucking praising them for it. AUGH!

And yeah, Capcom and their cheat code DLC can kiss my ass. $5 cheat code DLC for a $40 retail release that should have just been a $15-$20 DLC pack for Dead Rising 2 in the first goddamn place. And before anyone says "well it's a lot to add a new area to the map, record new voice acting, rewrite the story a bit, and add in challenges" to defend the release of Off the Record as a brand new game, no. You don't get to say that and do you know why you don't get to say that?! Because of Grand Theft Auto IV's DLC. Because of Fallout 3 and Fallout New Vegas's DLC. That's DLC done right. Rockstar, Bethesda, and Obsidian all put in WAY more effort into their content than Capcom did for Off the Record, and they added it to the game as DLC instead of saying "Nope, buy this brand new disc instead." The Lost and Damned and The Ballad of Gay Tony are both full of new voice acting, new motion capture, new interiors, new vehicles, new weapons, new licensed songs for the radio, and both were $20 each at launch. Off the Record was a bit of new voice acting, motion capture recycled from the downloadable title Case West, one small new area, a very small number of new survivors and psychos, and some new challenges for $40 as a new game at launch. Rockstar did way more content for less money TWICE and it was DLC you could download for your existing game, and Capcom did way less content for more money and you had to go to the store and buy a new disc. And now the cocksuckers are doing it again with Dragon's Dogma, only this time with the excuse "Oh but we had no hooks so we had to charge you $40 for a new disc instead of $20 for DLC." Bullshit, patches are for ADDING hooks you nimrod. This excuse signals one of two things: that you're completely incompetent when it comes to game development, or you're greedier than fuck. Neither of these shine you in a positive light, Capcom.

Oh and fuck EA. Do I really need to say more than that? We all know that EA is the worst, I think "fuck EA" is enough.

Quiotu said:
There really is an easy way to do this, though it's already been said many times before. Simply let publishers know with your wallet what you'll accept and not accept. I buy EA games when they don't screw me over. I bought ME3 used, but I bought SSX new... because one had DLC practices I liked and the other didn't. I don't buy Ubisoft games on the PC period. I haven't bought a Final Fantasy game since 12, but I bought Sleeping Dogs and Deus Ex: HR because those were good games that Squeenix had other developers make. Capcom is virtually dead to me, but I'll buy Okami HD just so they know that's the last thing decent they published. And I haven't bought anything from Sega since Valkyria Chronicles since they've shown they can't make and keep an IP to save their life save perhaps Total War, and a dev they own makes that instead.

Again, never say you'll boycot... because hardly anyone ever perseveres enough to stick to it. Buy what's good, buy what's fair, and let everything else fester as a signal to all publishers concerning what you're willing to put up with.
Except that doesn't work because all people like you manage to do is kill Radical Entertainment and Pandemic while everything you hate about publishers like Activision and EA lives on and continues to make them piles of money.

Actually seeing a lot of that in this thread. I guess you guys forgot about this episode already:
http://cdn.themis-media.com/media/global/images/castfire/mini/18ea65ba17000d6179dc89cb748eaa71.jpg

Buy the game to show that there's a market for these games, but whine your ass off to show that we don't want this DLC bullshit anymore. And don't buy the DLC. Not buying the game and not buying the DLC are two massively different things. Not buying the game makes the publisher think nobody wants that kind of game and they don't make that kind of game anymore (and probably kill the studio that made it). Not buying the DLC makes them think nobody wants that kind of DLC and MAYBE if that message gets across, the message of high sales for the base game but low sales for the DLC, finally they'll fucking stop.

But no, most people I see seem to fall into two camps: the "I'm not buying the game at all" camp, and the "I already bought the game and the DLC is cheap so I'll buy it even if I am getting fucked up the ass." camp. Seriously, I've seen people defend the Saints Row The Third forty weeks of DLC making you buy costumes that should have been unlockable for free like they were in the first two games with "It's cheap so I'll just buy it!". I hate these people SO MUCH for what they're doing to gaming, for the message they are sending publishers. And of course, I hate the people not buying the games at all for what they're doing to gaming as well. Once again, thanks Activision boycotters for not buying Prototype 2; Radical Entertainment is no more and CoD lives and sold better than ever once again in 2012. Good job guys! You showed Activision what for and got exactly what you wanted. ...Oh wait.

So yeah, remember the message from the previous episode. Buy the game but have yourself a righteous whine about the business practices. That's what this video is in some form: "I'm buying Dead Space 3 because I love Dead Space, but FUUUUUUUUUCK you EA for the micro-transaction weapon crafting rooms!" And if you love Dead Space, you should buy it too. Just be sure to not buy any Dead Space bucks and do some whining about it. If you buy the game and the bucks, they'll just do it again for the next game, and if you don't buy Dead Space 3 at all, there may never be a Dead Space 4.

JudgeGame said:
I cannot lie, I'll be slightly happy the day one of these truly despicable publishers bites the dust. It's a shame THQ went under when it was one of the better examples.
THQ had online passes, on-disc DLC, overpriced costume DLC, cheat code DLC, shitty PC ports, piles of shitty licensed titles, unimaginative CoD clones, and more. It wasn't one of the better examples, it was one of the worst examples. The death of THQ as a publisher is a good thing. I feel bad for all the innocent developers losing their jobs in the transition to new publishers or not being bought at all, but at the same time, I celebrate the death of one of gaming's awful publishers. Burn in hell THQ, and let your death be an example to other publishers.
 

Altered Nova

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I've never really had an opinion on these kinds of exploitative practices before now because I don't usually play games by the publishers that are the worst about it, but recently it seems like everyone is starting to do this crap. I pre-purchased Dead Space 2 Limited Edition because I love that series so much, but now I'm seriously considering boycotting the third one. I loved Borderlands 2 because the DLC they release generally contains plenty of new, well-thought out and implemented content and is reasonably priced, but just this week Gearbox released 15 new costumes for the game priced at one dollar each, which is ridiculous.

Seriously game developers I respect, stop shamelessly milking your franchises.
 

Gamegodtre

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Jimothy Sterling said:
To answer the question about what I said at the 3:13 mark --

I was talking about Namco Bandai, a company very much at the vanguard of bullshit DLC. It charged for gold and XP in Tales, it sold you only half a game with Katamari Xbox 360, and it was very much one of the earlier adopters of on-disc DLC with SoulCalibur. Namco's kind of fallen into the background these days now that EA and the like have run with the ball, but that ball was kicked very hard by Namco a few years ago.
to be fair to Namco Bandai the Level +5 up and Gald + stuff never got mentioned in the games so unless you looked for it in the DLC you would never know of it, also on the PS3 Graces version some of that was free,such as the free item packs it wasn't much but it was free, also for Graces F they sold you the new game + grade shop options the level up stuff as well as the Gald however i think it was Extra Credits who said it best in one of there old episodes that sometimes people do not have time to grind so to spend a dollar to stop the grinding and save yourself a hour of doing so is a just price and while not a direct quote it catches the feel of it, at least in these games there are no in game prompts to tell you of them breaking the 4th wall letting you know that it is a game. The real sin in Namco Bandais case is the DLC costumes that are 4 dollars a piece, jut were the fuck do they get off charging out the ass for costumes that in the old Tales games would have been free its fucking ludicrous.

As for the on disc DLC yeah that is kinda messed up.
 

TheSteeleStrap

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You mentioned season passes. I would've figured you'd like them. If you're going to get the DLC, you pay for it all at once, and save money doing it. Where's the downside?
 

mjc0961

YOU'RE a pie chart.
Nov 30, 2009
3,847
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irishda said:
I made it about halfway through the video before I couldn't watch anymore. Why? Because this entire video operates under the ridiculous premise that if something is being offered for money, then the customer has to buy it. Therefore the devs/publishers are fucking us over. Here's a tip, and this is just me, perhaps I'm reading too much into it.

DON'T BUY THE FUCKING DLC AND FRANKLY RETARDED EXTRAS THAT COME ALONG WITH SOME GAMES IF YOU DON'T WANT TO!
And this, boys and girls, is why you watch the entire video before you write a big stupid rant about something that may not be relevant. In this case, had you watched long enough, you might have made it to the part where he says that he doesn't buy most of this DLC.

So, yeah, before making a big stupid rant saying he should realize that he doesn't have to buy it, watch the video to see if he mentions that he already knows that so you don't make an ass out of yourself.

Also your thoughts on this are terrible ignorant anyway. "No complaining allowed, either buy or don't buy but shut the fuck up either way"? No. Fuuuuuuck that. We have every right to voice our complaints about terrible business practices. Whether we spend our money on it or not, we all damn well have the right to complain and no amount of "stop complaining guys!" from people like you will stop it.

irishda said:
No, Jim's not arguing against the practices, as he made very clear in the video. He's just mad that they're "forcing him to" or "charging him too much". Which, on both accounts, are fucking stupid reasons. If he REALLY wanted to speak out about it, he would've made a video about how retarded you have to be to spend money on a fucking cheat code or a hat for your character. But no, instead its a video on how the video game industry will burn and fall because publishers have the audacity to fish for people stupid enough or wealthy enough to pay for extra shit.
How the fuck do you know what he's speaking out against if you don't watch the video?! You already admitted that you didn't watch the entire thing, so don't sit there and act like you know what the video is about. What he said in the video and what you're claiming he said despite not watching the video are two completely different things.

Trishbot said:
I'm still buying Dead Space 3 because I love the franchise, BUT, depending on how the micro-transactions go, I may be writing EA directly.

People all the time say "vote or speak with your wallet", but that's missing 50% of what you need to do. Silence about it can send either no message or the wrong message. Don't JUST speak with your wallet, but also take that next step and tell the companies in charge WHY you didn't buy it. I'm amazed at how almost nobody does that second part.

When I was upset with Capcom's frequent DLC scams, I didn't buy their games. But I also told them why. When they refused to answer or to listen, I wrote the Better Business Bureau, listed my complaints against their anti-consumer behavior and business practices, and the BBB contacted Capcom on my behalf... and that definitely got results.

You gotta do more than "not buy". You gotta be vocal directly at them.

YOU are the customer. YOU are the buyer. YOU have the power of companies. Big companies like EA and Activision and Ubisoft and Capcom want you to think you don't have any power or influence over them, but they're entirely wrong. They are at the whims of their consumers, and there are PLENTY of laws in place to defend you from anti-consumer practices and behavior. They just want you to think they don't exist and you're helpless to resist or change anything.

You've all the power in the world to show them they're wrong.
*standing ovation*

Well said man. If you're going to boycott, you have to do more than just not buy the game. You have to contact them directly and tell them why you didn't buy the game. Otherwise they are going to just take the low sales the wrong way and kill Radical Entertainment, the cunts.
 

NezumiiroKitsune

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My only observation is that I don't agree the implementation of these systems, that supported games such as Tribes, so they be allowed to continue with the free to play model, at the detriment of nothing, to the benefit of everyone, are ruined or lessened in value by their abominable attachment to games that did not need them, by publishers who perverted the "services" to suit their cheque books. I believe it is rather to the detriment of the games that they're attached to, both the model of commerce those games were originally supported by, and the type of games that are being affected.

Dead Space 3 is a tackier, less appetising game for this, and it could be so much worse, but the inevitable massive success of Dead Space 3 will tell publishers that there is room for it to be so much worse, and they will be ever so eager to see how much more radically awful they can make their games. Meanwhile the likes of Planetside 2 are still brilliant, and use optional micro-transactions properly.

The system won't be ruined by them; the games they're bound to inorganically, through unscrupulous greed, will however be ever dragged down by them, as the publishers get lazier and more cynical.

So... chin up.
 

Bujiraso

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hm, he didn't say "thank god for me" (just hinted at it before cutting himself off)
Is this a first?
 

Quiotu

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mjc0961 said:
Buy the game to show that there's a market for these games, but whine your ass off to show that we don't want this DLC bullshit anymore. And don't buy the DLC. Not buying the game and not buying the DLC are two massively different things. Not buying the game makes the publisher think nobody wants that kind of game and they don't make that kind of game anymore (and probably kill the studio that made it). Not buying the DLC makes them think nobody wants that kind of DLC and MAYBE if that message gets across, the message of high sales for the base game but low sales for the DLC, finally they'll fucking stop.

But no, most people I see seem to fall into two camps: the "I'm not buying the game at all" camp, and the "I already bought the game and the DLC is cheap so I'll buy it even if I am getting fucked up the ass." camp. Seriously, I've seen people defend the Saints Row The Third forty weeks of DLC making you buy costumes that should have been unlockable for free like they were in the first two games with "It's cheap so I'll just buy it!". I hate these people SO MUCH for what they're doing to gaming, for the message they are sending publishers. And of course, I hate the people not buying the games at all for what they're doing to gaming as well. Once again, thanks Activision boycotters for not buying Prototype 2; Radical Entertainment is no more and CoD lives and sold better than ever once again in 2012. Good job guys! You showed Activision what for and got exactly what you wanted. ...Oh wait.

So yeah, remember the message from the previous episode. Buy the game but have yourself a righteous whine about the business practices. That's what this video is in some form: "I'm buying Dead Space 3 because I love Dead Space, but FUUUUUUUUUCK you EA for the micro-transaction weapon crafting rooms!" And if you love Dead Space, you should buy it too. Just be sure to not buy any Dead Space bucks and do some whining about it. If you buy the game and the bucks, they'll just do it again for the next game, and if you don't buy Dead Space 3 at all, there may never be a Dead Space 4.
That's not what I said. I said DON'T boycot. I buy games from publishers if they're GOOD, and if there not mocking my intelligence with the DLC and extra charges.
 

Zeckt

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You know, I just recently bought Dead Trigger a much hyped hardcore iphone game and sure enough you can only get HALF of the guns with in game currency and the rest with real cash that are HUGELY BETTER. Not to mention that with the in game money you keep through buying the real money guns will net you the best arsenal and boatloads of consumables because your not spending your in game money on guns.

Garbage Pay to Win all around. Fuck you Madfinger, I hope people know better now then to ever trust a game from you again and the only people who play it will be pirates and you go bankrupt so you stop shovelling your piles of crap on our industry. You lost me with one game.
 

Zeles

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Urh said:
How many Jim Bucks do I need for the hidden erotic gay fanfiction ending with Yahtzee?
You know someone somewhere on the internet has probably already written that.
 

Epona

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You know, some people saw this coming as the future of DLC but those people were always told to sit down and shut up. After all, slippery slopes are fallacies.

Let's be realistic though, how many people were really excited about F2P? Really, anyone with common sense knows that the idea behind F2P is to exploit consumers by selling them a $100 game in small pieces. It the same as we see with DLC, you spend $60 on a game and by the time you buy all the DLC or even just the Season Pass you are out $100+.

I am happy to see Jim talking about another crash, it has been coming for many years but you can't talk about it because again, slippery slopes are fallacies.

Will Nintendo have to save the industry again?
 

IamLEAM1983

Neloth's got swag.
Aug 22, 2011
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GAunderrated said:
If you have hard statistical proof of every person pirating or buying a game and have hard evidence to support this then I am all ears. Until then it is all conjecture and as I have said the whole correlation = causation is a fallacy. There is no proof to this there is only people's opinions, rumors, and excuses being stated as fact.
I'm just one guy. I'm not a statistician, I can't claim to know the exact reason behind the way the industry works and never did I claim to. These are just pieces that very conveniently fit together? Am I right? Did I say I was right? No. It's a theory of mine.

However, theories are based on observable facts. Ubisoft and others are harping about piracy killing the business, The Pirate Bay is bombarded with cease-and-desist letters, Kim Dotcom's oh-so-secure new service is already awarming with illegal content and amid it all, we're starting to see projected tech specs for the PS4 and 720. Games are costing companies *millions* to develop and produce.

Put these things together and tell me what comes up. The sixty-dollar price tag can't cut it anymore. You're a publisher. What do you do if you can't directly ask for a price increase or motivate one? You break up your final product, sell the biggest chunk as is and release the rest in bits and pieces.

You're a consumer and that bothers you. Maybe you don't even have the base sixty dollars for the core purchase. What do you do? You pirate.

I could very well be wrong, but pay attention to the news for the next couple months, or go back to what's happened over the last year. Pay attention to the publishers' release plans. I'm sure things are more complex than my one little measly theory could cover and this obviously is a personal one - but it does make sense.
 

Headbiter

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As much as I agree with that statement...well...I have to sound like a smartass and say "Saw it coming". Why? Because as much as people openly claim to despise being used as retarded cashcows unto the breaking point of insanity, isn't that what most of gamers are still doing? We keep on buying stuff from EA. Continously. "Because they still make good games" people say. "Because we want to hurt the publishers not the developers" they say. "Because I like the series" they say.

Well, I'm not saying those statements are wrong. I mean, given the sheer amount of games EA publishes, there are bound to be some titles among them that are at least decent. But that's the crux, isn't it? Do I rather follow my principles and reason, "suffering" a bit and investing a bit of time and effort to inform and offer some insight to people who don't know better? Or do I stay true to my series, just to watch it devolve into a horrible bloody mess and constantly shove money to people I would have already killed in the name of humanity in another time and country?

Clearly the latter one is preferred, presumably because it's so free of conflict and (in lack of a better word) abstinence of short-time fun. And thus companies like EA will continue with their practice of pushing the boundaries of business practices (and in this particular company's case good taste), other start-ups will see the financial success and imitate it and we keep on steering to that inevitable crash when every boundary is crossed and the people who are responsible are already safe in their platinum-made bunkers.

I for my part will keep on doing what I've been preaching for years now: If someone behaves like an utter and irredeemable asshole, STOP SUPPORTING HIM/HER/IT! EA hasn't seen a dime from me ever since Dragon Age 1 and the "great games" I missed out on...well, honestly I don't feel that much of a loss. And considering that even the supposedly really great games got famous rather because of some glaring design issues (with the mandatory empty phrase "But it's a fun game for the most part") that lack of regret gets even bigger.

So yeah, let's watch the train derail and in 5 years wonder how all of this could have happened.

PS: That part of your subconcious that started to wonder if I'm still only talking about video games around paragraph three might be onto something.
 

mjc0961

YOU'RE a pie chart.
Nov 30, 2009
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Quiotu said:
That's not what I said. I said DON'T boycot. I buy games from publishers if they're GOOD, and if there not mocking my intelligence with the DLC and extra charges.
You said you DO boycott. The other side of your "I buy when the game is good and they aren't pushing DLC down my throat" strategy is that when they they do overdo it on the DLC and extra charge front, you don't buy the game.

Don't know if you know this, but:

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/boycott
Definition of BOYCOTT
to engage in a concerted refusal to have dealings with (as a person, store, or organization) usually to express disapproval or to force acceptance of certain conditions
Not buying a game because you disagree with the DLC and extra charges is called a boycott. So yes, you did say you boycott, and you told others to boycott as well in your final sentence.
 

Adam Jensen_v1legacy

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Sep 8, 2011
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I don't buy DLC. And I rarely pre-order games. And when I see a game that has an awesome pre-order bonus that not having it would be a deal breaker, I simply ignore the game until it's $10 on Steam. Fuck the corporations.
 

Epona

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Adam Jensen said:
I don't buy DLC. And I rarely pre-order games. And when I see a game that has an awesome pre-order bonus that not having it would be a deal breaker, I simply ignore the game until it's $10 on Steam. Fuck the corporations.
It is irritating to walk into Gamestop and see signs everywhere for games that aren't even out yet. Online store like Steam are just as bad where half of the features games are not out yet but you can give them your money now.

One time my kid pointed out three games being advertised in Gamestop with big standees and none of them were out, 2 of them were Blop2 and Halo 4, can't remember the last one. It's irritating to repeatedly say "sorry son, that games not out for 2 more months". I don't know about most gamers but when I go to Gamestop looking for a game, it's a game I want to play TODAY!
 

Quiotu

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mjc0961 said:
Quiotu said:
That's not what I said. I said DON'T boycot. I buy games from publishers if they're GOOD, and if there not mocking my intelligence with the DLC and extra charges.
You said you DO boycott. The other side of your "I buy when the game is good and they aren't pushing DLC down my throat" strategy is that when they they do overdo it on the DLC and extra charge front, you don't buy the game.

Don't know if you know this, but:

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/boycott
Definition of BOYCOTT
to engage in a concerted refusal to have dealings with (as a person, store, or organization) usually to express disapproval or to force acceptance of certain conditions
Not buying a game because you disagree with the DLC and extra charges is called a boycott. So yes, you did say you boycott, and you told others to boycott as well in your final sentence.
A boycott would be if I didn't buy ANYTHING from a publisher. I don't mindlessly buy from a publisher even when the game sucks. Yes, I won't buy a game if the DLC insults my intelligence or the charges for content are terrible. That means I don't like the game. If there's a game I like and have no problem with it, but I won't buy it because it has a publisher's name on it... THAT would be a boycott. Otherwise I'm just not buying games I don't like.
 

RJ 17

The Sound of Silence
Nov 27, 2011
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Final Fantasy: All the Bravest?
Soooooo you literally have an army of heroes fighting....two to three monsters at a time? Who the fuck comes up with this shit?
 

aba1

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Doesn't help that they keep pushing things digital only which means only middle class and upper class first world nations can afford and stable enough internet connection. Anyone in second world nations or poorer people in 1st world nations will soon have to give up gaming all together.
 

aivalera

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Foolproof said:
Sooo....you're shocked that a business would try to find a way to make money off a new development?
Not shocked, pissed. And "not try to find a way to make money off a new development", more like shoving it down our throats not enough to kill us but something that has to be checked on.

Honestly though, this isn't one my "must change" policies but at the rate it's going it will soon be up there. This is the same as on-disc DLC that should be cut out soon before it becomes completely riduculous. We shouldn't have to pay to unlock the stuff we already bought. You may say that we aren't and that I'm ranting on about something else, but we are and I'm on topic. If this keeps up, we will be forced to pay for something that should have been in the game but isn't because we haven't paid another twenty bucks. It's not there yet, but it will be if this doesn't stop.
 

Eve Charm

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The industry won't crash. As bad as it gets it won't crash at all because call of duty, madden, assassin's creed, and any other low risk title that sells millions a company can keep pumping out every year. Sure more studios will shut down, but hell as long as the big guys can buy whatever is worth money and still put it out like they did THQ nothing is going to miss a beat.

And people won't not buy the next call of duty, or the next installment of X game, and the DLC season pass or coins cause heck that's about the only game they buy for a while.

Hell I bet in 2 years Activision will be Kickstarting to raise the funds for the next call of duty so it doesn't cost them a time, 500 dollars for a clan tag and all the dlc ;p
 

Catrixa

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...I've had people ask me "Why would anyone sane spend money on pixels!? Don't you know you're not getting anything real!?" and I usually answer "Why would you go to the movies!? Don't you know you aren't getting anything real!?" Entertainment is entertainment. You pay $10 and expect to get $10 of entertainment out of whatever you've paid $10 for. In the case of DLC/microtransactions, if you pay $10 for a thing, you will, in theory, get $10 out.

All this said, I think the problem isn't "This entertainment costs $10" it's "You need to pay $10 to extract any enjoyment out of this product" or "Here is a partial product. You can pay $10 to get the whole thing." The difference here is a combination of presentation, quality, and pricing.

For "You need to pay $10 to extract any enjoyment out of this product": this is a quality issue, and I'm not talking about overall game quality. Take TOR for example. When this game came out, it was really fun. I loved the story, characters, PVP, even the on-rails space missions. Yeah, like everyone else, I got to level 50 and wandered off from the title, but I picked it back up when it went free to play. And everything is now behind a pay wall. Yeah, I can still do all of the story missions, but they've taken the multiplayer out of a massively multiplayer online roleplaying game. And they remind you that you are a free to play player every single time you want to do something, ruining a lot of the single-player-goodness (I don't want to say immersion, because there's only so much you're going to get out of an mmo, but it kind of is, especially when it pops up to tell you everything you'd get if you paid every two seconds. No, I don't care that I'm not getting the absolute max exp for this quest). A lot of Korean grind mmos also take this model and run with it. Yeah, I'm sure I'd be having much more fun if I paid for exp boosts or items so I can get to max level faster, but if I don't know if the game will be any more fun with them, I won't buy them.

For "Here is a partial product. You can pay $10 to get the whole thing": this might seem like a quality issue, but I'd argue it's more of a presentation and pricing problem. You pay for a $60 game under the impression that you're getting $60 of product. But you're not. You're getting $30 of product. What that is can be somewhat subjective, but I'd wager if the game feels less substantial than its predecessors, and you know there will be DLC, you're probably wandering into this situation. Now, say they charge $30 for the game and promise $10 DLC later, and you can get a season pass. Would this be as bad? I'd argue no, since you'd be getting an honest price. For a lame metaphor, it's like going to a movie under the expectation of getting at least one hour and 30 minutes of run time, only to be cut off after 45 minutes and given a haphazard "to be continued!" Yes, it's sort of subjective, but I'd say most people would be frustrated by that tactic.

Honestly, I think there are ways to do free to play/microtransactions/DLC that don't feel like you're getting cheated. Skyrim for the PC is a pretty good example of a single player title, because even if you hate all of the DLC, you can still get some pretty stellar mods, or even write your own. For multiplayer games, I think League of Legends is a pretty good way to handle microtransactions. If you think you'll play a champion for long enough to get $10 out of it, go ahead and pay. If you're not sure, don't have the funds, or are on the fence in any way, that's cool too; you can wait. There are other ways to get what you want.

At the end of the day, paying for video game content is going to feel different for everyone, but I do think it shouldn't feel like you're being compelled to buy, and that's what the real issue is.
 

Weaver

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Apr 28, 2008
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IMO, the crash is on its way.
Stocks are down all around. THQ is disassembled. Every week we hear about some studio closing.

I just think the industry is poised right now for a complete hostile takeover by Valve. The Steam Box might just upturn the whole console market quickly enough that all the big players won't even know what happened.
 

Atmos Duality

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irishda said:
It would be better serving though if he hadn't said in the video, multiple times, that he'd be willing to pay if the developers didn't A: charge so much or B: "beat him over the head with it." Which I'm not even sure I know what he's talking about. The closest I can think is that guy in Dragon Age that talks to you about some important mission, and then the game pauses to tell you you have to buy the DLC. But that's solved by just not talking to the guy again. If that breaks you out of your gaming funk for more than five minutes (or however long until you talk to someone else) than something's wrong with the game itself to begin with.
Well, even in the example you've given here, it's kind of a nasty practice.
Legal, well within their right, but nobody likes having proverbial keys dangled in their face.
I'll elaborate a bit more below.

No, Jim's not arguing against the practices, as he made very clear in the video. He's just mad that they're "forcing him to" or "charging him too much". Which, on both accounts, are fucking stupid reasons. If he REALLY wanted to speak out about it, he would've made a video about how retarded you have to be to spend money on a fucking cheat code or a hat for your character. But no, instead its a video on how the video game industry will burn and fall because publishers have the audacity to fish for people stupid enough or wealthy enough to pay for extra shit.
Pardon the personal interpretation, but I believe his outrage at these costs are in essence arguments against their related practices in general. It's not just price-hiking measures, it's how they're implemented.

At best, I find this problem akin to that of Product Placement in film; even if you try to ignore it, even if you walk away from it, once you're aware of it, it still cheapens the experience. Perhaps I'm a weaker person for it, but subconsciously, I hate it when I realize I just paid money for an experience and then have an advertisement shoved in my face.

At worst, well, we're seeing a trend in AAA games with more and more content focused on micro-transactions. Mass Effect 3, Dead Space 3, even Diablo 3...I call them "shell games".

Incidentally, I did some research on that iPhone/mobile Final Fantasy: All The Bravest, and Jim is right, it's a fucking terrible game.
It's so terrible in design and so greedy in its intent, I actually applauded Squeenix for making it.
FF: AtB's mere existence could be interpreted as (I do not say this with any irony or sarcasm) a statement of contempt for the FF fanbase, and the nostalgia-centric market they drive.

Squeenix really thinks their fanbase is so stupid, with such low standards that they will gobble up a game whose gameplay literally consists of rubbing once side of the screen until you win just because it has the Final Fantasy franchise stamped on it.
What blew my mind while researching this: I found people defending the game heart and soul. These people are spending money, sometimes lots of money, on SPRITES. Nothing more complicated in function or appeal, than an animated gif.

And it's because of shit like this, that I cannot get mad at Jim as you have.

I totally agree with you on the consumer taking a stand and rejecting bad offers rather than buying them and grumbling about how shitty the market is later, but there is a point where someone needs to stop and point out just how ridiculous these money grabs are getting, and that's what I took from his video.

spartandude said:
Atmos Duality... you sir are my new solemate
i get so sick of the "you dont like then dont buy it and shut up" mentality so many people on these forums have but you... i just want you to hold me
Careful. I've been stalked by a lady on this site before in a similar manner, and as it turns out, she's quite aggressive. >_<
But it's good to meet a kindred spirit amidst the madness of the net.
 

Epona

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Eve Charm said:
The industry won't crash. As bad as it gets it won't crash at all because call of duty, madden, assassin's creed, and any other low risk title that sells millions a company can keep pumping out every year. Sure more studios will shut down, but hell as long as the big guys can buy whatever is worth money and still put it out like they did THQ nothing is going to miss a beat.

And people won't not buy the next call of duty, or the next installment of X game, and the DLC season pass or coins cause heck that's about the only game they buy for a while.

Hell I bet in 2 years Activision will be Kickstarting to raise the funds for the next call of duty so it doesn't cost them a time, 500 dollars for a clan tag and all the dlc ;p
You know, Call of Duty won't sell forever. In fact, it is a fast burn and will also burn out quickly (one day people will just stop). There have been successful franchises come and go and Call of Duty is no different. Remember when it was all about Mario, then Sonic, then Spyro, then Crash, then Halo, etc...
 

grey_space

Magnetic Mutant
Apr 16, 2012
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Lord Draenor said:
RRRRAAAAAGE! Pretty much sums up the situation. I don't even buy DLC unless it's bundled with the whole game and at a ludicrous discount. Don't see any reason to pay for something that's obviously a missing part of the main game
totally agree.

And I probably won't be buying Dead Space now for at least couple of years until an edition comes out with the DLC added.

With a bit of luck it'll be second hand so EA will get fuck-all of my money

SO not interested in any kind of online DLC component in any of my games.

I will be buying Bioshock Tho.

I certainly hope there won't be some kind of online bullshit with that.
 

geizr

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And again, my answer to all this is to just not buy it. I'll be honest, I don't really deal with video-games much anymore. I play board-games more these days. I have a lot more fun, I got to interact personally with my friends, and I don't have to put up with all this bullshit. Complaining about it just doesn't do anything. Close your wallet and leave.

ADDENDUM: OMG! That ending was just awesome!! I absolutely loved that!
 

Jimothy Sterling

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These games companies are big corporate entites with shareholders and they'll keep trying to squeeze money out of a product as much as they can. We as consumers should not let them. Thats why I dont touch DLC unless its substantial and offers real moneyb for value (elder scrolls expansions) and as far as gaming goes I find myself moving back to the pc and away from a lot of AAA titles entirely. I probably wont even buy the next xbox/playstation and this is coming from someone who owns an xb360 ps3 and wii. I dont want to see people unemployed but if this is the future of gaming i'd rather live without it, it was nice while it lasted.
 

starlit

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What? It was less Jim Bucks to watch the secret Euro Truck 2 ending over the Thank God for Me Ending?
I feel you need to reevaluate how much you're charging for the different DLC of your videos Jim.
 

Epona

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geizr said:
And again, my answer to all this is to just not buy it. I'll be honest, I don't really deal with video-games much anymore. I play board-games more these days. I have a lot more fun, I got to interact personally with my friends, and I don't have to put up with all this bullshit. Complaining about it just doesn't do anything. Close your wallet and leave.

ADDENDUM: OMG! That ending was just awesome!! I absolutely loved that!
You don't think Jim making a video and all the people on this thread complaining about it have pushed anyone a little closer to "don't buy it"?

In groups, people are very influential.
 

xPixelatedx

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Given that so many developers were so willing to abandon their individual personalities and IPs to aim for the dark, gritty, new style of gaming the moment the 360 came out (the hip new thing), it just showed how much they didn't appreciate their craft. They were just pandering to the new kids on the block. I mean seriously, how does a game company go from making amazing games like Ratchet and Clank to sub-par shit like Resistance? That was kind of the end-all omen to me that we were in for the downhill ride of our lives. I am not surprised in the least that we have the shit in the gaming industry we have now. That bad taste I got in my mouth from the start of this gen has turned into vomit, just like I thought it would.

The game industry is now the cesspool Hollywood is. DLC, pay-to-play, micro transactions are all the $10-$15 gross popcorn they try to sell us before we go in to see what homogenized garbage they're trying to dump on us now.

Another gaming crash? Good god... please come soon! I would enjoy it greatly if many of the publishers and developers responsible for everything in it's current state all went bankrupt. Perhaps we could survive a few years just on indi-games until the next reboot. Or better yet those people who make the awesome indi games should eventually become the next giants in gaming.
 

immortalfrieza

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Quiotu said:
There really is an easy way to do this, though it's already been said many times before. Simply let publishers know with your wallet what you'll accept and not accept. I buy EA games when they don't screw me over. I bought ME3 used, but I bought SSX new... because one had DLC practices I liked and the other didn't. I don't buy Ubisoft games on the PC period. I haven't bought a Final Fantasy game since 12, but I bought Sleeping Dogs and Deus Ex: HR because those were good games that Squeenix had other developers make. Capcom is virtually dead to me, but I'll buy Okami HD just so they know that's the last thing decent they published. And I haven't bought anything from Sega since Valkyria Chronicles since they've shown they can't make and keep an IP to save their life save perhaps Total War, and a dev they own makes that instead.

Again, never say you'll boycot... because hardly anyone ever perseveres enough to stick to it. Buy what's good, buy what's fair, and let everything else fester as a signal to all publishers concerning what you're willing to put up with.
"Voting with your wallet" will never accomplish anything. Why? It's because for every 1 person that wises up and stops buying from a company, they're replaced by 10 more idiots that will buy anything without bothering to see if they should just coming into some disposable income *COUGHcausalsCOUGHandCOUGHblindfanboysCOUGH*. The video game industry is so prevalent at this point that they can just screw everybody over as much as they want and there's nothing anybody can do about it.

MortisLegio said:
I honestly don't understand why companies want to nickle and dime their customers. All it does is make the customer not like you and make it so they are less likely to buy the next game. If it's straight up greed, then wouldn't it make more sense to keep your customers as happy as possible and earn their loyalty? I just don't get it. Are companies so short sighted that they no longer care?
As I said above, video game companies are so powerful, so rich, and have an endless stream of morons customers to lead like lambs to the slaughter that they don't need to give a rat's ass about being fair to their walking moneybags customers. They not only blatantly ripoff nickle and dime their victims customers, but they flaunt the fact that they cheat their lemmings customers at every turn. Other industries also rip off their customers constantly, but they at least TRY to hide the fact that they're doing it. You're right though Mortis, the video game industry somehow gets a free pass to rip off their customers all the time, and they actually profit from it, while in any other industry, similar practices would get the company that did it to die out, quickly.
 

Otaku World Order

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I'm starting to get the feeling someone at EA saw DLC Quest and took it as a serious business model instead of a tongue in cheek joke.

I was going to pre-order Dead Space 3 until this microtransaction shit was announced. I didn't think EA could come up with a worse idea then Dead Space 2's tacked on multiplayer, but at least that actually gave us something tangible.
 

immortalfrieza

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xPixelatedx said:
The game industry is now the cesspool Hollywood is. DLC, pay-to-play, micro transactions are all the $10-$15 gross popcorn they try to sell us before we go in to see what homogenized garbage they're trying to dump on us now.
Nah, Hollywood isn't anywhere near as terrible as the video game industry is. At least with the movie industry they try to make it look like they aren't screwing people over. The video game industry not only screws people over, they'd have to put a massive "WE'RE ROBBING YOU FOR EVERTHING YOU GOT" sign on the front of every game box in order to flaunt the fact that they're doing just that more than they already are.
 

LoneGunmanO23

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Wait. Jim's looking at Dead Space 3's pricing model as a warped, twisted, unrecognizable abomination of something he used to defend and now feels compelled to attack it?

They're just trying to tear down the segregation between their business and the plot of their game.
 

PunkRex

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FF:All the Bravest sounded like a fun idea until I heard about the micro transactions, now I just can't give a sh*t... and this is coming from someone who baught Skylanders.
 

Colt47

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xPixelatedx said:
Given that so many developers were so willing to abandon their individual personalities and IPs to aim for the dark, gritty, new style of gaming the moment the 360 came out (the hip new thing), it just showed how much they didn't appreciate their craft. They were just pandering to the new kids on the block. I mean seriously, how does a game company go from making amazing games like Ratchet and Clank to sub-par shit like Resistance? That was kind of the end-all omen to me that we were in for the downhill ride of our lives. I am not surprised in the least that we have the shit in the gaming industry we have now. That bad taste I got in my mouth from the start of this gen has turned into vomit, just like I thought it would.

The game industry is now the cesspool Hollywood is. DLC, pay-to-play, micro transactions are all the $10-$15 gross popcorn they try to sell us before we go in to see what homogenized garbage they're trying to dump on us now.

Another gaming crash? Good god... please come soon! I would enjoy it greatly if many of the publishers and developers responsible for everything in it's current state all went bankrupt. Perhaps we could survive a few years just on indi-games until the next reboot. Or better yet those people who make the awesome indi games should eventually become the next giants in gaming.

Considering I had more fun recently playing Terraria for the PC: an indie game that isn't even completed, than Call of Duty: Black Ops, Halo 4, Rayman Origins, and Gravity Rush: I think the console market probably needs some more creativity in the works. Actually, I'm kind of wondering how Nintendo is doing over there in the field yonder that I haven't stepped in since the game cube...

Oh yeah, and the DLC and preorder bonuses for three out of the four games didn't exactly help much. To be fair, at least the PS vita games were good for what they were, though.
 

Epona

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Colt47 said:
xPixelatedx said:
Given that so many developers were so willing to abandon their individual personalities and IPs to aim for the dark, gritty, new style of gaming the moment the 360 came out (the hip new thing), it just showed how much they didn't appreciate their craft. They were just pandering to the new kids on the block. I mean seriously, how does a game company go from making amazing games like Ratchet and Clank to sub-par shit like Resistance? That was kind of the end-all omen to me that we were in for the downhill ride of our lives. I am not surprised in the least that we have the shit in the gaming industry we have now. That bad taste I got in my mouth from the start of this gen has turned into vomit, just like I thought it would.

The game industry is now the cesspool Hollywood is. DLC, pay-to-play, micro transactions are all the $10-$15 gross popcorn they try to sell us before we go in to see what homogenized garbage they're trying to dump on us now.

Another gaming crash? Good god... please come soon! I would enjoy it greatly if many of the publishers and developers responsible for everything in it's current state all went bankrupt. Perhaps we could survive a few years just on indi-games until the next reboot. Or better yet those people who make the awesome indi games should eventually become the next giants in gaming.

Considering I had more fun recently playing Terraria for the PC: an indie game that isn't even completed, than Call of Duty: Black Ops, Halo 4, Rayman Origins, and Gravity Rush: I think the console market probably needs some more creativity in the works. Actually, I'm kind of wondering how Nintendo is doing over there in the field yonder that I haven't stepped in since the game cube...
Nintendo is continuing to do things their own way while ignoring what everyone else is doing. They are getting into DLC but some of it is free DLC. Nintendo pisses me off in so many ways but when topics like this come up, they end up look like the old wise man who takes things nice and slow.
 

LightspeedJack

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CAPITALISM.

But seriously this is despicable. Just for that I'm buying Dead Space 3 used EA :)

Also Escapist are putting ADS IN CAPCHAS now?! Real classy guys. Guess corporate greed at the expense of the user is everywhere now. How ironic.
 

Jimothy Sterling

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SanAndreasSmoke said:
You know, it pains me to say it but I've been getting the feeling we might be in for another industry crash in the near future, and I would normally consider myself a very optimistic person. I hate doom-sayers, yet this borderline criminal squelching of paying consumers for more cash coupled with a few other recent industry practices that seem to be bringing the market nowhere but down has me worried.

I really hope I'm wrong. At the same time, though, what will it take to give these publishers a fucking wake-up call?

Great ending, by the way.
You are wrong, and here is why:

The crash occurred due to an over-saturation of samey low-quality titles over a large array of consoles, and customers had a very hard time distinguishing them. The market almost totally vanished as stores ceased carrying consoles since they thought that no one was ever going to buy consoles again. This was when the consoles cost hundreds and PCs cost thousands.

Now you have lots of flashy consoles for under four hundred and PCs that can be custom built to suit your needs for under 1000, provided you do your research. Also, guns and boobies. Both sell very well, especially to curse-puking kiddies who are on a sugar rush and just got a headset, who dominate the gamer market (and explains why women tend to be silent gamers).

Let's face it. No one is going to be so stupidly vain as to buy a skin for ten dollars unless they've played the game for 1000 hours and feel that they owe the company a little bit. I actually do this with f2p games that I like and so I don't feel like a free-loader. I don't brag about it and I don't expect anyone to care about my florescent pink armor in Blacklight: Retribution.

It took six years for the Modern Warfare juggernaut to slow down, if only for a little bit.

Personally, I hope that the market splits and companies like EA and activision can go milk casual gamers while other companies make stuff that is a little more challenging.
 

Epona

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LightspeedJack said:
CAPITALISM.

But seriously this is despicable. Just for that I'm buying Dead Space 3 used EA :)

Also Escapist are putting ADS IN CAPCHAS now?! Real classy guys. Guess corporate greed at the expense of the user is everywhere now. How ironic.
Keep hitting refresh until you get a non advertising CAPTCHA. It may take many tries but the message that we refuse to type ad slogans should be sent.
 

Jimothy Sterling

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aivalera said:
Foolproof said:
Sooo....you're shocked that a business would try to find a way to make money off a new development?
Not shocked, pissed. And "not try to find a way to make money off a new development", more like shoving it down our throats not enough to kill us but something that has to be checked on.

Honestly though, this isn't one my "must change" policies but at the rate it's going it will soon be up there. This is the same as on-disc DLC that should be cut out soon before it becomes completely riduculous. We shouldn't have to pay to unlock the stuff we already bought. You may say that we aren't and that I'm ranting on about something else, but we are and I'm on topic. If this keeps up, we will be forced to pay for something that should have been in the game but isn't because we haven't paid another twenty bucks. It's not there yet, but it will be if this doesn't stop.
Oh for fucks...complaints about on disc DLC are just pure bullshit, and are evidence of the incredibly skewed sense of value that gamers have.

Look, in order for a complaint about on disc DLC to be valid, it must fulfill three criteria.

1. The base game itself must not be worth the $60 investment as judged by the standards of the market and what would constitute a fair average $60 investment.

2. The content must be available on day one

3. The addition of this on disc DLC to the base game must then create a complete paclage that is substantial enough that it would constitute a fair amount and quality of content by the standards of present games.


If the game doesn't fit into the first criteria, then the gamer is complaining about not getting something extra for free. That it was on the disc is just irrelevant semantics - fine, you bought that content, but you didn't buy the unlock code, so you aren't allowed to use that.

If the game doesn't fit into the third criteria, then the problem isn;t the DLC, its just that the game sucks, and on disc DLC is irrelevant.

No-one has ever been able to give me a game that actually fulfills all three critiera. Which indicates its a knee jerk reaction based on us thinking that our payment entitles us to infinite content from developers and publishers, not $60 worth of content.
 

Nazulu

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I was sick of this awhile ago, as well as DRM. I'm also really getting fucking sick of having to research every new game released just to see if it comes with DRM or run me through shit hole practices like the ones you mentioned.

I reckon the only way to get more people to vote with their wallets is to demonise them more, so they literally stand out.
 

plainlake

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I would not mind a industry crash, half of my time is spent on indie games anyways, they will thrive with less AAA titles and I doubt that steam will go down.
 

irishda

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Atmos Duality said:
irishda said:
It would be better serving though if he hadn't said in the video, multiple times, that he'd be willing to pay if the developers didn't A: charge so much or B: "beat him over the head with it." Which I'm not even sure I know what he's talking about. The closest I can think is that guy in Dragon Age that talks to you about some important mission, and then the game pauses to tell you you have to buy the DLC. But that's solved by just not talking to the guy again. If that breaks you out of your gaming funk for more than five minutes (or however long until you talk to someone else) than something's wrong with the game itself to begin with.
Well, even in the example you've given here, it's kind of a nasty practice.
Legal, well within their right, but nobody likes having proverbial keys dangled in their face.
I'll elaborate a bit more below.

No, Jim's not arguing against the practices, as he made very clear in the video. He's just mad that they're "forcing him to" or "charging him too much". Which, on both accounts, are fucking stupid reasons. If he REALLY wanted to speak out about it, he would've made a video about how retarded you have to be to spend money on a fucking cheat code or a hat for your character. But no, instead its a video on how the video game industry will burn and fall because publishers have the audacity to fish for people stupid enough or wealthy enough to pay for extra shit.
Pardon the personal interpretation, but I believe his outrage at these costs are in essence arguments against their related practices in general. It's not just price-hiking measures, it's how they're implemented.

At best, I find this problem akin to that of Product Placement in film; even if you try to ignore it, even if you walk away from it, once you're aware of it, it still cheapens the experience. Perhaps I'm a weaker person for it, but subconsciously, I hate it when I realize I just paid money for an experience and then have an advertisement shoved in my face.

At worst, well, we're seeing a trend in AAA games with more and more content focused on micro-transactions. Mass Effect 3, Dead Space 3, even Diablo 3...I call them "shell games".

Incidentally, I did some research on that iPhone/mobile Final Fantasy: All The Bravest, and Jim is right, it's a fucking terrible game.
It's so terrible in design and so greedy in its intent, I actually applauded Squeenix for making it.
FF: AtB's mere existence could be interpreted as (I do not say this with any irony or sarcasm) a statement of contempt for the FF fanbase, and the nostalgia-centric market they drive.

Squeenix really thinks their fanbase is so stupid, with such low standards that they will gobble up a game whose gameplay literally consists of rubbing once side of the screen until you win just because it has the Final Fantasy franchise stamped on it.
What blew my mind while researching this: I found people defending the game heart and soul. These people are spending money, sometimes lots of money, on SPRITES. Nothing more complicated in function or appeal, than an animated gif.

And it's because of shit like this, that I cannot get mad at Jim as you have.

I totally agree with you on the consumer taking a stand and rejecting bad offers rather than buying them and grumbling about how shitty the market is later, but there is a point where someone needs to stop and point out just how ridiculous these money grabs are getting, and that's what I took from his video.
And that's the issue that makes me so mad. Everything with the video gaming crowd is a personal insult. That game could be interpreted as a statement of contempt, or it could be interpreted as, at worst, a rushed attempt to gain a foothold in a new medium they didn't full understand. Because to believe that Enix was insulting its consumers is to believe that the higher ups at the company sat there and said, "Final Fantasy players are stupid and will buy anything."

More to the point, I don't see micro-transactions as the wave of the future, and I don't even see them as being much of a problem in the first place. People say things like Diablo 3 are signs of what's to come, because they believe the entire game was designed to center around the auction house. But even that is centered around how much you as an individual care to invest in an experience, and whether or not you want to make that experience easier. Is it more efficient and easier to just buy things off the auction house of D3 rather than go on endless loot runs? Absolutely. Is it easier to buy more energy in those facebook/free-to-play games than to just wait until it automatically refills for free? Certainly. But it's weighed by what you look for in a game. And it's not even as forceful as Jim paints it to be. There are no "Buy this, it's in the auction house now!" in D3, except from the actual players. And that's relegated to a tiny corner of the screen. And it can be closed.

Bottom line, I don't feel any of these are as active as Jim believes them to be, and him yelling about it just makes him look like a guy screaming at a billboard, "They're infecting everything! They'll be everywhere!"
 

JezebelinHell

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Atmos Duality said:
spartandude said:
Atmos Duality... you sir are my new solemate
i get so sick of the "you dont like then dont buy it and shut up" mentality so many people on these forums have but you... i just want you to hold me
Careful. I've had another person think that on here and when she tried to have conversations with me I was convinced that she was one of my friends playing a joke so I was very uptight and I was really paranoid about being abused with furries. Well, that set off her red headed stubborn streak because getting me to have a conversation was like pulling teeth even though we had things in common. Eventually she kind of just gave up on the whole thing but then I kept talking to her because the whole stalking bit was so traumatic to me and now I just keep her around for amusement so it wasn't all that bad I guess, not really like stalking at all since she only talked to me on here for the longest time. >_<
But it's good to meet a kindred spirit amidst the madness of the net.
*boots the dragon* (I am sorry, but I couldn't help myself with that typo.)

There, I fixed that bit of snark for you.

If you're complaining and so traumatized, I can go away. xp
 

irishda

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mjc0961 said:
irishda said:
I made it about halfway through the video before I couldn't watch anymore. Why? Because this entire video operates under the ridiculous premise that if something is being offered for money, then the customer has to buy it. Therefore the devs/publishers are fucking us over. Here's a tip, and this is just me, perhaps I'm reading too much into it.

DON'T BUY THE FUCKING DLC AND FRANKLY RETARDED EXTRAS THAT COME ALONG WITH SOME GAMES IF YOU DON'T WANT TO!
And this, boys and girls, is why you watch the entire video before you write a big stupid rant about something that may not be relevant. In this case, had you watched long enough, you might have made it to the part where he says that he doesn't buy most of this DLC.

So, yeah, before making a big stupid rant saying he should realize that he doesn't have to buy it, watch the video to see if he mentions that he already knows that so you don't make an ass out of yourself.

Also your thoughts on this are terrible ignorant anyway. "No complaining allowed, either buy or don't buy but shut the fuck up either way"? No. Fuuuuuuck that. We have every right to voice our complaints about terrible business practices. Whether we spend our money on it or not, we all damn well have the right to complain and no amount of "stop complaining guys!" from people like you will stop it.
Oh no, rest assured, I still watched the rest. Even including the part where he says "I would even buy some of this stuff if it wasn't ridiculously overcharged or if they didn't beat me over the head with it." In other words, Jim is wholly willing to support the shit he says he hates so much, if it just didn't cost so much, or they didn't ask him so many times. Good thing I watched far enough to see him back up his hypocritical position.

Voice your complaints all you want. Businesses don't give a shit until you stop paying them. And right now, you guys are paying them. So yes, the bitching is annoying because you guys whine and complain while still handing them money hand over fist. Then you act as though you were forced into it, like he was powerless NOT to buy the Infinite Weapon Durability.

irishda said:
No, Jim's not arguing against the practices, as he made very clear in the video. He's just mad that they're "forcing him to" or "charging him too much". Which, on both accounts, are fucking stupid reasons. If he REALLY wanted to speak out about it, he would've made a video about how retarded you have to be to spend money on a fucking cheat code or a hat for your character. But no, instead its a video on how the video game industry will burn and fall because publishers have the audacity to fish for people stupid enough or wealthy enough to pay for extra shit.
How the fuck do you know what he's speaking out against if you don't watch the video?! You already admitted that you didn't watch the entire thing, so don't sit there and act like you know what the video is about. What he said in the video and what you're claiming he said despite not watching the video are two completely different things.
Except I did. I just got pissed at the halfway point. I know exactly what he's speaking out about. Things used to be free, and now they're not.
 

ash12181987

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I am a PC Gamer.

PC Games have gotten roundly screwed for being a failing industry that no one wants to invest time into anymore. A lot of mainstream developers are abandoning it. What is coming in the place, is a series of old guard PC Game developers, publishing with GOG and Steam, and crowdfunding. A year ago I called a guy a moron on a forum because he said that crowdfunding would replace mainstream developers. Looking at my game purchases since then, and any game purchases I intend to make in the future, the only large company I have bought a game from is Activision (SC: HOS). Most of my purchases these days are small developers who just seem to Get what I want in gaming. I was dead wrong, and I have no trouble admitting that.

That is why I am perfectly content that EA is doing what they are doing. Well, content is the wrong word for it. I'm upset because when larger companies manage to screw themselves out of existence, you loose a lot of big name titles. What makes me happy though, is that despite this, we are getting more depth and complexity slowly inching it's way back into gaming. I never played shooters. I played Battlefield 1942 for a while... a long time ago. I played about 20 minutes of one of the first Modern Military Shooters online, and quit for around 7 years. I recently started playing Planetside 2. First FPS I've seen in years that had what I was looking for. I love city building games, and since Impressions went dark, I haven't had a lot to play: Now we have the games learning from Dwarf Fortress, lacking in complexity (Comparatively, but comparing a games complexity to Dwarf Fortress, is like comparing the flight speed of a parakeet to that of a lear jet) but making up for it in UI and fun. We have games creeping into existence that will begin to undermine the foundation of the larger companies while they continue to make hairbrained decisions, and people are just mad enough now to finally let that happen.

Where I am going is this: In the video Jim, you say that gaming could crash like it did in the 80s. I think we have reached the point of being self-sufficient enough that it wont happen. I say let these people make these decisions. Let them attempt to appeal to a disappearing and historically indecisive majority of media consumers, who have left them for tablets and teaspoon depth, by continuing to bilk people for every coin they can. Because it'll only be so long before they have to acknowledge what they have done wrong, by betraying their devoted base.
 

Jimothy Sterling

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Nice Ending :)

when i heard about the whole DeadSpace weapons crafting thing i was honestly both pissed and surprised could you imagine whst they'll do next? for instance different costumes at the moment they're all hidden and you need to unlock them but say you play a game and you find armour that's really good you try to equip it and guess what? You need to buy the unlock code.
One day they'll just drop the pretence and start openly charging for what you actually have in the game that you can see and interact with (similar to that area in Burnout Paradise). It may never come to this for most games but at this point i'm expecting the worst.
 

Frost27

Good news everyone!
Jun 3, 2011
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connall said:
Jim, your desk is awesome. Where did you get the terminator and darksiders mask?

Good episode though, I do completely agree, I saw something promising but now I see some sort of frankenstein monster that these ideas have become.
You can find the Terminator on Thinkgeek, I have one on my desk at work. It helps keep me on task.
 

Ledan

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*le sigh* and this is why we can't have nice things anymore -_-
Nowadays, I can't justify impulse buys or release-price buys because there is so much stuff that feels like its missing. I think saints row 3 was the best example, because while it was an amazingly fun game it felt way too short for a 60 pricetag. I had to balance myself so i wouldnt accidentally finish the story before the optional activities.
 

Dfskelleton

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Couldn't agree more. I want to play Dead Space 3, but I'm buying it used. I don't want to give those bastards at EA any money. I would buy it new to support Visceral Games, but with that ludicrous minimum number of copies that must be sold, they're as good as dead. I guess we'll never see Dante's Inferno 2 (hey, I kind of liked the first one, despite how much it butchered one of my favorite literary works.)

Oh, and props for the System Shock 2 reference.
 

Vault101

I'm in your mind fuzz
Sep 26, 2010
18,847
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To be honest I feel like micro transactions and such are a reality were just going to have to get used too, I am little worried how its going to affect ds3 in terms of gameplay, if its there you have to allow for it one way or another
 

Vault101

I'm in your mind fuzz
Sep 26, 2010
18,847
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grey_space said:
With a bit of luck it'll be second hand so EA will get fuck-all of my money
.
sadly you wont be hurting EA...only viceral
immortalfrieza said:
"*COUGHcausalsCOUGHandCOUGHblindfanboysCOUGH*. .
oh right...I apologise for being a fanboy moron....

if I want a game I want a game, I'm not going to deny myself on the delusion that me not buying it will somehow hurt evil old EA in any way shape or form (it wont)
 

Vault101

I'm in your mind fuzz
Sep 26, 2010
18,847
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Kekkonen1 said:
I am so bloody tired of unimaginative AAA-games made by a committee of old greedy men who have tweaked the product so it will have such a broad market that it in reverse effect becomes virtually indistinguishable to all other AAA-games .
now this simply isnt true...

sure AAA gmaes dont vary much in terms of themes and such..but I can definetly tell the difference between dead space 3 and the new tombraider
 

Jimothy Sterling

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Good on ya mate. That was brilliant. It's been a while since I've heard someone vent with vigor and I enjoyed every bit of it. It pissed me off for about ten seconds and then I didn't give a shit.
Because that's who we are now.
 

geizr

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Crono1973 said:
geizr said:
And again, my answer to all this is to just not buy it. I'll be honest, I don't really deal with video-games much anymore. I play board-games more these days. I have a lot more fun, I got to interact personally with my friends, and I don't have to put up with all this bullshit. Complaining about it just doesn't do anything. Close your wallet and leave.

ADDENDUM: OMG! That ending was just awesome!! I absolutely loved that!
You don't think Jim making a video and all the people on this thread complaining about it have pushed anyone a little closer to "don't buy it"?

In groups, people are very influential.
Given some of the past behavior of gamers, not so much, no. These same companies have been doing this sort of thing for years and successfully getting away with it precisely because people keep buying it. All it takes is for the company to dangle a new, shiny game, and gamers come running to buy it, completely disregarding the mistreatment they just suffered. At what point, no matter how enticing the game, does one finally say to company X, "You have mistreated me one time too many, and I am never buying anything from you ever again"? At what point has a company crossed beyond forgiveness such that, no matter how shiny the new game, gamers simply refuse to buy ANYTHING from that company ever again (for example, I will never, ever buy anything from Ubisoft, period)?

A company only hears and understands two specific sounds, the creak of your wallet opening and the slap of your wallet closing. All other sounds are simply meaningless noise and are ignored. You can complain as much as you want, and that's fine; let the company know why you are dissatisfied. However, unless those complaints are back by definitive, decisive action, they will lack any sense of force upon the company.
 

Vault101

I'm in your mind fuzz
Sep 26, 2010
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I actually really want to send a strongly worded email/letter to EA but not sure where to go

should I just send them an actual physical letter?
 

ex275w

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Capcom is having expectations that are too high, eh? Sucks to be DmC which hasn't been selling very well in UK and Japan. (Sold 1/3 of what DmC 4 did in the UK and 1/2 of whta id did in Japan)

The problem is that games are becoming more and more expensive because companies aren't changing how they produce games. They cut a lot of content (like 3/4s of Soul Calibur's V story mode) because they don't plan all the features or the focus of the games. The industry learns to need to manage the products it's making, it costs more to cut content in a video game than in a movie, or a cartoon.

As for monetization, I would play the games if I could pay 15 dollars to get all DLC or remove the energy systems. There's nothing worse than a game that makes you pay constantly and isn't called WoW.
 

Jimothy Sterling

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Vault101 said:
sadly you wont be hurting EA...only viceral
Ask yourself: Is this a product that I want? If you don't like the strings attached, don't buy the product. It sucks that the developer must suffer, but they knew what was happening when they signed on with EA. You are not obligated to buy anything.

Vault101 said:
if I want a game I want a game, I'm not going to deny myself on the delusion that me not buying it will somehow hurt evil old EA in any way shape or form (it wont)
This kind of argument always amuses me.

You know, money does not just magically appear. If you don't buy the product, they will not get your money. Don't buy it used, don't buy it on sale, don't buy it at all. There are plenty of games out there. There always will be.

In all honesty there are not that many games that EA has made in a while that are really worth playing that much. Even if you like Dead Space, the third is so far from the original, it just has the label. So the argument "I like Dead Space, so..." does not even work.

Loyalty to labels is pretty stupid.
 

Vault101

I'm in your mind fuzz
Sep 26, 2010
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CrossLOPER said:
Ask yourself: Is this a product that I want? .
YES...yes it is

Caramel Frappe said:
I loved you Dead Space ... i'm sorry to see you go like this. I know i've said this before, but it's official.. I will only remember you for the first two games unless something changes and makes me convinced I should get the third game.
you could just look at it like a "paid for" easy mode
 

Vault101

I'm in your mind fuzz
Sep 26, 2010
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Caramel Frappe said:
says who? I'm pretty sure buying stuff is completly optional...theres nothing you cant get in-game (aparently)
 

Sprinal

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I'm sad he didn't mention Planetside 2. I have spent many hours there. Haven't paid a cent. Still get plenty of kills... Until I get in an aircraft... Yeah there is some benefit of paying but it's set up so that you can pay for what you want. Or work for it. Take a little bit longer. But get the same thing.

It works. I want to pay. I might get around to it... Or I might just play Dwarf Fortress.

But yeah. I haven't bought a game from EA since Red Alert 3.

Point blank refuse
 

EeviStev

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Nothing to add, just wanted to say I relate to and agree with every single word Jim said. Best Jimquisition in forever.
 

Matthewmagic

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*Raises hand* Umm I've been saying this since DlC replaced expansion packs. Hell even Wows subscription service is a bit much. And don't even get me started on xbox live, paying to have twelve year olds scream racail epithets in my ear. I have bought dlc for one game only, that is Arkham City. Usually if I'm really excited about a game I'll just wait for the greatest hits version with all the dlc already apart of the game to hit, ya know, the full fucking game.

Games are too damn expensive for this kind of shit. It is too the point where I pirate every game and if I like it enough I'll buy the full version. Why should I pay full price for a half finished game.
 

GoddyofAus

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canadamus_prime said:
At this point I want to see the industry crash again. Maybe then publishers will get it through their thick skulls that the way they do business only hurts the industry.
Or they'll just take the massive profits they've already made, give the industry and its supporters the finger and walk away cackling into the shadows, leaving an absolute trainwreck in their wake.

Never underestimate the cowardess of big business when the chips are well and truly down.
 

MrHide-Patten

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Having played the Dead Space 3 demo I know exactly what he means by loving the game and hating it as a product. Anything I like about it is overshadowed by this market research driven homogenization to a series I once heavily enjoyed

Ironically enough, Dead Space has never been a more perfect title for the series., it is through and through dead space.
 

Jezzascmezza

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How come I always happen to be eating while watching the Jimquisition episodes where he displays images of shit?
Life can be cruel sometimes
 

punipunipyo

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Jim Bucks? shut up and take my money!~

Anyhow, yeah, DS3... was totally looking forward to that one, after Capcom's RE6 didn't deliver an actual game... but now I am not sure if I want to even buy DS3 anymore....
 

The White Hunter

Basment Abomination
Oct 19, 2011
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Beryl77 said:
I see sometimes people defending EA's decisions by saying that "they're just a company doing business". Fuck that, what a load of bullshit. There are tons of companies who do very well without behaving like they're related to the Antichrist. It's still their own, conscious decision to do those things, nothing else. Them being a company doesn't excuse that in the slightest.

Also, nice ending. Very well done.
Y'know I've always been one of those that's said EA are just being a giant corporation, about as evil as all others. But this here is taking the piss, I completely agree with Jimothy, there is absolutely no justifiable reason to put out a game at a £49(RRP, more around £40-45)/$60 price point and then charge extra for FUCKING WEAPONS. Not DLC. Not bundles of new content. Not expansions.

Fucking.
Weapons.

Know what? I be they pull some bullshit where you have to pay to beat a boss about halfway through too. I was vaguely considering giving the game a chance too, but the demo wouldn't let me couch co-op (the only kind worth a damn to me) and microtransactions.

Between this and the steady demolition of perfectly good franchies, or in the case of Medal of Honor Doorfighter, the public execution of a perfectly good franchise, not to mention that terrible SSX game that didn't have any multiplayer, the best part of the old SSX's of yore, I absolutely cannot continue to support EA in good conscience untilt hey dial back the evil from raw demon to at least Disney Villain.
 

The White Hunter

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Matthewmagic said:
xbox live
Paying Microsoft to use parts of software you already own that Microsoft has fuck all to do with has always been morally dubious at best. The community is just the icing on the turd sandwich with Xbox Live, and Live is the primary reason I don't own an Xbox.

Especially with crap like how Halo 4's co-op requires Xbox Live Gold to play on the couch (or so I've been told/disclaimer).

Sony are evil and stupid too, but PlayStation Plus is a hell of a lot better of a deal than XBL Gold, because y'know, you get something for it and aren't paying double for stuff you already own.
 

blackrave

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Pay-to-play-to-pay-again is only the beginning
Pay-to-pay is the main goal of publishers
Games? You don't need games, you need to pay, pay again and then pay some more...


Caramel Frappe said:
Maybe you're not paying enough?

Alright, sorry for putting salt on the wound, but after EA butchered my favorite franchise (C&C) cynicism is my only defense from going batshit crazy.
 

ThisGuyLikesNoTacos

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Matthewmagic said:
Honestly guys, Piracy. Fucking with these companys money is the only thing they understand.
1. It's against the rules of Escapist to make comments which support piracy.

2. If more piracy would appear, we most likely would have to deal with more SOPA BS, and companies would try to screw the paying consumers even more then they already do.

I don't know how we're going to give a message to the companies that sinks in their heads, but it certainly isn't piracy.
 

OniaPL

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I can't shake the feeling that I've seen this episode several times already.
 

zelda2fanboy

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I like when a righteous, well thought out, and angry opinion ultimately results in me saving money. Nice job, Jim! This DLC business was fun back in the Fallout 3 / Mass Effect 2 days, but since then it seems like everyone's gotten lazy about it. As someone who doesn't give a shit about multiplayer, costumes, or buying games right when they come out, it makes it pretty easy not to have to put up with this bullshit. And it feels pretty good. I was so going to buy Street Fight X Tekken, too, until I heard about that on disc nonsense. I thought for sure there'd be a deluxe edition with all the stuff eventually, but there wasn't, and I don't feel I've missed anything of value having not purchased the game. Too many other fun games I have to play with much more content and way lower prices.
 

webkilla

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Loved the episode. While Jim's rants often to me are more about "situation X which relates to the gaming community and his thoughts about it", then this one is actually kinda useful. I've never liked the idea of DLC. I've been a gamer for long enough to remember the olden times when a patch or content patch was all you got - and you rarely had to pay for it. Or maybe it was expansion packs you could get for your game.

..but these days? Ya, DLC and in-game pay-to-play/win monetization schemes have gone nuts. Its just crazy

a pay-to-craft system? Really?

Reminds me of a flash game I saw on Newgrounds once. It was kinda prophetic in retrospect: You started out with pretty much NOTHING but a barebones top-down bullet-hell shooter with shit graphics, then as you earned money by shooting stuff and finishing levels you could buy content in the game... like, proper menu graphics, game graphics, sound, music, more weapon options... culminating with the fact that you had to buy 'the end' to 'win' the game.

I wonder when we'll start to see that? Imagine a triple-A game being sold as an alpha - and than you either buy a subscription to get auto-updates for the game until its gold or you pay for seperate 'feature packages' where you can get things like proper graphics, proper level design, proper game engine, cutscenes, menu graphics...

Its bound to happen sooner or later
 

babinro

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I seldom buy into DLC or microtransactions because I always look at the content as compared to the price of the game.

Is this single hour of content worth 1/6th the cost of this 80 hour game? If yes, buy. If no, don't buy.
I can always watch a let's play and get the story I missed for free.

I do get suckered into DLC from time to time though. Diablo 3's RMAH has got some use out of me because the money I spend is money I've made in that game. It's no longer a matter of my spending $5.00 on a virtual sword but rather spending free money to get free items.

Pre-order free DLC gets me as well. See Dragon Age and Dragon Age 2 and Mass Effect 3.
Free character with pre-order version? *Sigh* I love the game so I might as well pay that premium.

I'm tempted to add Rock Band as well because lets face it...$2.00 or $2.50 a song is a complete rip-off when you bought 80 songs for $60.00. However, over the years I'm likely to play said song 50 times so in the end I consider worth the price.
 

Canadamus Prime

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Jun 17, 2009
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GoddyofAus said:
canadamus_prime said:
At this point I want to see the industry crash again. Maybe then publishers will get it through their thick skulls that the way they do business only hurts the industry.
Or they'll just take the massive profits they've already made, give the industry and its supporters the finger and walk away cackling into the shadows, leaving an absolute trainwreck in their wake.

Never underestimate the cowardess of big business when the chips are well and truly down.
I could see Microsoft and Sony doing that as they have their fingers in many pies and the fate of the video game industry wouldn't hurt them a whole lot, but companies like EA, Activision, Sega, Capcom, and Nintendo who's sole source of profit is video games, they'll have to learn to adapt to survive or die and any of them that don't won't be missed. And any of these businesses that are out to make money want to continue to make money.
 

Therumancer

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Nov 28, 2007
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CrossLOPER said:
Vault101 said:
sadly you wont be hurting EA...only viceral
Ask yourself: Is this a product that I want? If you don't like the strings attached, don't buy the product. It sucks that the developer must suffer, but they knew what was happening when they signed on with EA. You are not obligated to buy anything.

Vault101 said:
if I want a game I want a game, I'm not going to deny myself on the delusion that me not buying it will somehow hurt evil old EA in any way shape or form (it wont)
This kind of argument always amuses me.

You know, money does not just magically appear. If you don't buy the product, they will not get your money. Don't buy it used, don't buy it on sale, don't buy it at all. There are plenty of games out there. There always will be.

In all honesty there are not that many games that EA has made in a while that are really worth playing that much. Even if you like Dead Space, the third is so far from the original, it just has the label. So the argument "I like Dead Space, so..." does not even work.

Loyalty to labels is pretty stupid.
Well to be honest I consider Visceral, or any other dev bought by EA, to be the same basic thing. Once EA gets their fingers into them, I cease to really care about their survival. Me liking a developer is based on what they produce, if they produce things I don't care for, or embrace a business model I don't like, I no longer care. They can pass the blame between Dev and Publisher all they want, but at the end of the day if I don't like the product I'm not going to buy it.

It's like Bioware, I was a fan because I liked their games, I do don't care for their games and how they are marketed anymore, so I am no longer a Bioware fan. My reasons (Dragon Age 2, Mass Effect 3 Ending) only have to be my own.

That said I do agree with what you were saying about money not appearing on trees. You don't buy the products, it will kill a product line, and the developer, but the publisher is also going to take note of why these things failed. Cost them enough money and eventually they change, or go out of business and die (over a period of time). One purchuse doesn't matter, but lots do. At the core though each individual has to choose not to buy and hope the numbers of likeminded people add up.

If Visceral dies, remember EA also loses the money it invested in getting it's fingers into that developer. On a lot of levels the more corrupted developers we kill, the more damage we do to EA and it's business practices.

I think it's also important to send a message to developers that consider selling out to EA that their fans aren't nessicarly going to go with them. Ditto for EA thinking that a popular dev is going to be a guaranteed audience of wallets ripe for exploitation.

Jim fears a video game crash, but honestly I think it might be a good thing at this point. Games will recover again. I'd rather go without games for a while than see this current nonsense continue.
 

Therumancer

Citation Needed
Nov 28, 2007
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Chessrook44 said:
In short, "This is why we can't have nice things."

DVS BSTrD said:
Who says the subscription based model is outdated?
I'd say the failure of TOR, most likely.
I don't think the problem is the model so much as nobody planning to sustain the model. At the end of the day for a subscription based game to work you need to have endgame content that keeps people re-upping their subscriptions. Something that is fun, but also very time consuming, and motivates them to play.

Too many people launching subscription based games look at the industry from the very beginning and how games were launching with little or no endgame, and how they thrived just fine when there was nothing to compare them to. Right now the problem is that there ARE games with robust endgame experiences, like WoW, and if your going to pay your $15 a month you want to be doing something during the time your paying and waiting for the next major content expansion.

What killed ToR, and most other subscription based games, was simply that people would advance to the endgame, having a good time doing it, and then wind up just sitting there with little in the way of fun or challenge present to advance their character of choice. If people stop paying to wait around, that's a problem when game developers might take a year or more to release substantial amounts of content. Micro-updates only work in that they might bring people back to check out a minor addition, but once they are done with it, they leave again.

No game can produce enough unique, non-repetitive, content to keep people playing constantly and immersively for years. At least not at the current tech level. That means that you need to create an entertaining, time consuming, way to grind to take up time. Some games like WoW got it down to an artform.

Also to be entirely fair, since an MMO is by definition a time sink (it needs to be one to survive on a subscription formula) it cannot cater to casuals at the endgame. If you make it so that people can get the best stuff for their characters with what is overall a trivial investment of time and effort, that just means it's that much quicker before people have perfect characters, nothing to do, and leave.

Old WoW Raids, like Molten Core (which is what really caused the game to survive) worked so well because it was a huge effort to get them going and coordinated, and could involve a substantial amount of time and resources. Your typical person might be able to raid once a week, and get one potential roll on an item per week that would upgrade their character, while competing with 39 other people. This meant roughly 4 rolls per month. Of course all of this came with the knowlege you were doing something that took a lot of effort, coordinating some tricky fights, and of course got to see the spectacle of monsters the side of castles fighting armies of adventurers, which was all inherantly cool in of itself. Sure, casuals hated it, "I have a life, I can't do this", but enough people DID do it to keep subscriptions flowing month after month, and it lead to WoW becoming hugely successful. Eventually it became entrenched enough where it was able to become a bit more casual friendly in the endgame though, surviving mostly because it had evolved so far it had no real competition.

People love to argue with me about this, but the bottom like is that ToR pretty much failed not because of the subscription model, but because nobody was going to pay $15 a month to login and sit around a space station and grind the same few casual endgame runs again and again, month after month, long after they got everything their character needed to be at the top of their game. At a certain point ToR was just paying for a graphical chat client, and that
can be said of pretty much all the failed subscription based MMOs. At a certain point people will take their $15 and go spend it on something that actually entertains them, rather than the honor of waiting to see if maybe they might be entertained later if something new is added.
 

TWEWER

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That piece of shit you used about a minute and a half in looks like a big chocolate donut.
 

Strazdas

Robots will replace your job
May 28, 2011
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i agree with you on every word (every single word) you said in this.

Exception bein the mobile gaming, i told you it sucks from the begining. but no, you didnty listen. well here, told you so.

Capcha: no dice
Well surely you are not going to make us pay for the dice in monopoly, are you? oh well, could have seen this coming. Monopoly - 20 dollars. Dice - extra 5.


No game can produce enough unique, non-repetitive, content to keep people playing constantly and immersively for years. At least not at the current tech level. That means that you need to create an entertaining, time consuming, way to grind to take up time. Some games like WoW got it down to an artform.
Or you could do what CCP did - let players create their own endgame. thing is, i know people playing it for 10+years and not bored yet. so there.
 

Therumancer

Citation Needed
Nov 28, 2007
9,909
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canadamus_prime said:
GoddyofAus said:
canadamus_prime said:
At this point I want to see the industry crash again. Maybe then publishers will get it through their thick skulls that the way they do business only hurts the industry.
Or they'll just take the massive profits they've already made, give the industry and its supporters the finger and walk away cackling into the shadows, leaving an absolute trainwreck in their wake.

Never underestimate the cowardess of big business when the chips are well and truly down.
I could see Microsoft and Sony doing that as they have their fingers in many pies and the fate of the video game industry wouldn't hurt them a whole lot, but companies like EA, Activision, Sega, Capcom, and Nintendo who's sole source of profit is video games, they'll have to learn to adapt to survive or die and any of them that don't won't be missed. And any of these businesses that are out to make money want to continue to make money.
Well, yes and no. The thing to understand that the core interests at the heart of companies like EA, Activision, and other major companies are a combination of shareholders, who generally maintain investment portfolios accross a number of businesses, and executives like Bobby Kotick that have made enough money where they are able to live in the lap of luxury for the rest of their lives without lifting a finger if they did absolutly nothing else. The entire thing is motivated by rich people getting richer. If most of the powers behind these video game companies walked, it wouldn't really hurt the people at the top of the food chain, just the employees. The crash would leave massive devestation of the industry, and yes there would be some executives hitting the poverty line, but the big boys would be just fine. Most of them would just go on to other investments, find other executive jobs, or just decide to sit down like huge bloated toads on vast piles of money and live out the rest of their lives in luxury without worrying about either the gamers OR the employees whose lives they wrecked.

To be honest, I'm thinking we might very well be seeing a choice of "Video Game Crash, or supporting our own massive exploitation". Truthfully I think a crash would be better, because while we would go without games for a while, the simple fact that there is a demand means someone would rise to fill it. A crash would basically be a sort of "reboot" of the entire industry in hopes that the new version would do better this time.

I'll also say something else that is rather unpopular, as much as people like to point fingers at gaming executives, shareholders, and the big business aspects of things, the fault is also heavily with the developers. At the end of the day the cost of developing a game is largely a matter of human resources, the cost of office space, computers, etc... is minimal compared to these huge budgets. The rising cost of games is because the people making games increasingly demand more money, if a game succeeds and makes a publisher a bundle, the developer wants a bigger share of the pie due to it's success when they make their next game. A developer known for successes thus demands increasingly large amounts of money. A lot of this goes to the "faces" like Studio Heads directly, but a lot of it also goes into the increasingly bloated salaries and wages of line coders, graphics developers, music creators, and other people. Despite the popularized image of developers as ordinary people who just love games, they are hardly ordinary people, though I suppose many are jaded into thinking so if their peer group is a lot like them. Maxim once did an article called "Why Game Developers Drive Ferraris" which simply reported what differant people in the industry made on average per year based on reports, and it wasn't exactly a normal existance. The a lot of the reasons why a publisher (which is evil and greedy in it's own right) needs to do so much to make money in so many cases is because of how much it paid the devs. The devs being the reason why you might see a comparitively short, derivitive, dialed in entry in a series, or even a new franchise, that needs to sell a shocking number of copies to be profitable, having taken more money to develop than previous, comparable games (especially when tech hasn't advanced much), it's because those developers demanded more money based on their previous success. If you see a budget to produce basically the same thing raise from 50 to 70 mil the question to ask yourself is who the raises are going to.

At it's core, it's all understandable. A publisher wants a return on their investment. A developer, like any other employee or person providing a skill, wants fair compensation for their work. Of course as an industry becomes successful and makes tons of money, people's self-importanance inflates as does expectations of what fair compensation is. If your job is to be say a graphics designer, and part of your job is to learn all the new technology and such as being part of the field to begin with, your doing pretty much what's expected of you whenever you make a game no matter what technology it uses, it's part of being a professional. When what you think you should be being fairly paid becomes less about what your actually doing, and is instead based on how much your bosses/investors/publishers are making off the product you produce that's a problem. You demand more, you get it, the price of the product increases, it trickles down to the customers. Cycle continues, more and more is done to make up the differance and keep things similarly profitable, and eventually the entire thing crashes because at the end of the day it all forms to the consumers. The devs aren't willing to settle for a fair wage, and the publishers aren't going to reduce their profits (especially when they expect growth) all of it falls squarely on the consumer until you eventually break.

To be honest, in part I think a crash would be good, because while the publishers would be the big winners, I think a lot of developers need a kick in the teeth too.

One interesting question that comes up with Dead Space 3 for example is that if ne needs to sell X million copies, how much did it actually cost to make? That's the money the guys at Visceral were paid, which set the price and needs to begin with.

To be honest sometime people might want to sit down with a game, and then compare the cost with the price to produce it. You might be going "wow, that was an incredible piece of work" but then carefully analyze to yourself if you think it should have cost like 70 million dollars (or whatever) to produce that. Stop and think about what else you could have achieved with that much money. It puts things into perspective. Maybe it's a good product, but in Maxim terms, do you think it's enough where you feel justified in it allowing some line coder to go buzzing around in a Ferrari?
 

Zom-B

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Can't say I don't agree with pretty much everything here.

I like Dead Space too, and was pretty saddened to hear about the in game DLC (IGP = In Game Purchases?). Even if this scheme doesn't change how I play the game, doesn't force me to seriously consider spending extra money, I'm still bothered by it being there.

I'll admit it: I'll probably buy Dead Space 3. However, there's no way I'll be buying it at full price. I'll wait six months or a year and get it for $19.99.
 

Canadamus Prime

Robot in Disguise
Jun 17, 2009
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Therumancer said:
canadamus_prime said:
GoddyofAus said:
canadamus_prime said:
At this point I want to see the industry crash again. Maybe then publishers will get it through their thick skulls that the way they do business only hurts the industry.
Or they'll just take the massive profits they've already made, give the industry and its supporters the finger and walk away cackling into the shadows, leaving an absolute trainwreck in their wake.

Never underestimate the cowardess of big business when the chips are well and truly down.
I could see Microsoft and Sony doing that as they have their fingers in many pies and the fate of the video game industry wouldn't hurt them a whole lot, but companies like EA, Activision, Sega, Capcom, and Nintendo who's sole source of profit is video games, they'll have to learn to adapt to survive or die and any of them that don't won't be missed. And any of these businesses that are out to make money want to continue to make money.
Well, yes and no. The thing to understand that the core interests at the heart of companies like EA, Activision, and other major companies are a combination of shareholders, who generally maintain investment portfolios accross a number of businesses, and executives like Bobby Kotick that have made enough money where they are able to live in the lap of luxury for the rest of their lives without lifting a finger if they did absolutly nothing else. The entire thing is motivated by rich people getting richer. If most of the powers behind these video game companies walked, it wouldn't really hurt the people at the top of the food chain, just the employees. The crash would leave massive devestation of the industry, and yes there would be some executives hitting the poverty line, but the big boys would be just fine. Most of them would just go on to other investments, find other executive jobs, or just decide to sit down like huge bloated toads on vast piles of money and live out the rest of their lives in luxury without worrying about either the gamers OR the employees whose lives they wrecked.

To be honest, I'm thinking we might very well be seeing a choice of "Video Game Crash, or supporting our own massive exploitation". Truthfully I think a crash would be better, because while we would go without games for a while, the simple fact that there is a demand means someone would rise to fill it. A crash would basically be a sort of "reboot" of the entire industry in hopes that the new version would do better this time.

I'll also say something else that is rather unpopular, as much as people like to point fingers at gaming executives, shareholders, and the big business aspects of things, the fault is also heavily with the developers. At the end of the day the cost of developing a game is largely a matter of human resources, the cost of office space, computers, etc... is minimal compared to these huge budgets. The rising cost of games is because the people making games increasingly demand more money, if a game succeeds and makes a publisher a bundle, the developer wants a bigger share of the pie due to it's success when they make their next game. A developer known for successes thus demands increasingly large amounts of money. A lot of this goes to the "faces" like Studio Heads directly, but a lot of it also goes into the increasingly bloated salaries and wages of line coders, graphics developers, music creators, and other people. Despite the popularized image of developers as ordinary people who just love games, they are hardly ordinary people, though I suppose many are jaded into thinking so if their peer group is a lot like them. Maxim once did an article called "Why Game Developers Drive Ferraris" which simply reported what differant people in the industry made on average per year based on reports, and it wasn't exactly a normal existance. The a lot of the reasons why a publisher (which is evil and greedy in it's own right) needs to do so much to make money in so many cases is because of how much it paid the devs. The devs being the reason why you might see a comparitively short, derivitive, dialed in entry in a series, or even a new franchise, that needs to sell a shocking number of copies to be profitable, having taken more money to develop than previous, comparable games (especially when tech hasn't advanced much), it's because those developers demanded more money based on their previous success. If you see a budget to produce basically the same thing raise from 50 to 70 mil the question to ask yourself is who the raises are going to.

At it's core, it's all understandable. A publisher wants a return on their investment. A developer, like any other employee or person providing a skill, wants fair compensation for their work. Of course as an industry becomes successful and makes tons of money, people's self-importanance inflates as does expectations of what fair compensation is. If your job is to be say a graphics designer, and part of your job is to learn all the new technology and such as being part of the field to begin with, your doing pretty much what's expected of you whenever you make a game no matter what technology it uses, it's part of being a professional. When what you think you should be being fairly paid becomes less about what your actually doing, and is instead based on how much your bosses/investors/publishers are making off the product you produce that's a problem. You demand more, you get it, the price of the product increases, it trickles down to the customers. Cycle continues, more and more is done to make up the differance and keep things similarly profitable, and eventually the entire thing crashes because at the end of the day it all forms to the consumers. The devs aren't willing to settle for a fair wage, and the publishers aren't going to reduce their profits (especially when they expect growth) all of it falls squarely on the consumer until you eventually break.

To be honest, in part I think a crash would be good, because while the publishers would be the big winners, I think a lot of developers need a kick in the teeth too.

One interesting question that comes up with Dead Space 3 for example is that if ne needs to sell X million copies, how much did it actually cost to make? That's the money the guys at Visceral were paid, which set the price and needs to begin with.

To be honest sometime people might want to sit down with a game, and then compare the cost with the price to produce it. You might be going "wow, that was an incredible piece of work" but then carefully analyze to yourself if you think it should have cost like 70 million dollars (or whatever) to produce that. Stop and think about what else you could have achieved with that much money. It puts things into perspective. Maybe it's a good product, but in Maxim terms, do you think it's enough where you feel justified in it allowing some line coder to go buzzing around in a Ferrari?
Holy shit, did you write me novel? Regardless given a choice between a crash and being exploited, I'd take the crash. At least then there's the possibility of coming out of it ahead as any companies (both developers and publishers) that survive it or arise from it will hopefully have learned what the consumers what and are willing to pay for. It's a slim possibility, but it's better than being exploited.
 

medv4380

The Crazy One
Feb 26, 2010
669
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Yes Jim. It will take another game crash of 83 to fix things up.

The Signs of the coming Apocalypse are here.

Plethora of games and consoles
Ouya, Nvidia Shield, 6 Steam Boxes (High, Mid, Low,)(Mobile, Box), Non-Valve Steam Boxes, Game Stick, WiiU, PS4?, XBox 720?

Competition from home computers
Steam now works on Linux.
Android Phones
IPhones, IPads
All unforeseen forms of competition

High-profile failures
The Collapse of THQ
38 Studio

Loss of publishing control
Free to Play

You ignored the signs.
You encouraged the Devil.
You put yourself above all.
You pretended to lead us to the light only to find darkness.
You have Dammed us all.

May our benevolent lord and savior see fit to send us another messenger to lead us out of the darkness that is to come.
 

Somebloke

New member
Aug 5, 2010
345
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Well, some recent statements from DE3 devs, almost do make it look like somebody who wants to get out is attempting a "Torch the franchise and run" manouvre... :p
 

Ickorus

New member
Mar 9, 2009
2,887
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Matthewmagic said:
Honestly guys, Piracy. Fucking with these companys money is the only thing they understand.
Pirating their products gives them a fairly valid reason to act like douche-bags, don't be a part of the problem.
 

IKWerewolf

New member
Jan 13, 2011
201
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jehk said:
IKWerewolf said:
jehk said:
Not all DLC is just a missing part of the game. Admittedly a lot of DLC has turned into that.

The major problem with gaming and these perverted business models is that distribution services do not release any data about sales as a whole. This generates a huge amount of risk (specifically when introducing new IP) and basically forces the developers to take advantage of the people who love their games the most. Hopefully one of these services will do IT sometime (I'm looking at you Steam). It would be an awesome shot in the arm for the industry.
Steam are actually already doing the right thing in terms of Greenlight, several of the games in my list and LOVING THEM (in between other games I seriously need to finish), if we want better games, we have to say this is what we want.

It is also the best way to reduce the risk; if something similar failed to get interest, an indie game maker they can look at how it was marketed, look at comments and see if its worth even designing that idea.

If you want better games and you have Steam the best way to get them is by looking through Greenlight, its a minimum of yes or no they ask AND will diversify the mainstream market more as global, free market research data will exist.
Greenlight is pretty awesome overall. However, its only a small part of Steam and only includes indie titles. It still doesn't solve the problem I'm talking about which is not having solid sales data to make informed business decisions. The markets for Steam, Xbox Live, App Store, etc are very different. There's a huge black hole of available public information about sales (unlike say film industry).
OK stand by for complicated arguement.

Greenlight may not be sales data but its a start... it is actually something more important. Steam's Greenlight is a Market Research Paradise; even if they do not put their own game on Greenlight they can search for similar games and look at comments to see the reception games of similar classes of games receive and can make an active decision whether or not they should make that game for Steam.

Other Steam elements also add to the toolset of future designers... Recommendations, Forums, Top Sellers and even Steamworks (logically the more made for Steamworks, the more a game is liked) can be used as more than just a Point of Sale and Community, a smart developer would use it as market research... although Sales Data doesn't exist there are clearly other ways of reducing the risk.
 

Hagi

New member
Apr 10, 2011
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I think one of the main problems as well is that there isn't really a good way to tell these publishers that their business practices are crap.

I mean there's no shortage of games that do have these micro-transactions that rake in tons of cash, so from the publisher's point of view that can't be the problem. People are buying it so it's good.

When one of these games does fail it's chalked up to the IP itself, see Dead Space for example. If it fails EA doesn't plan to stop micro-transactions for full-price games, it plans to stop the Dead Space IP.

Gamers as a whole just aren't organised enough to send a clear message with their wallets and publishers are on average much, much too dense to understand any other message.