Jimquisition: Breaking the Bones of Business

irishda

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Atmos Duality said:
irishda said:
It would be better serving though if he hadn't said in the video, multiple times, that he'd be willing to pay if the developers didn't A: charge so much or B: "beat him over the head with it." Which I'm not even sure I know what he's talking about. The closest I can think is that guy in Dragon Age that talks to you about some important mission, and then the game pauses to tell you you have to buy the DLC. But that's solved by just not talking to the guy again. If that breaks you out of your gaming funk for more than five minutes (or however long until you talk to someone else) than something's wrong with the game itself to begin with.
Well, even in the example you've given here, it's kind of a nasty practice.
Legal, well within their right, but nobody likes having proverbial keys dangled in their face.
I'll elaborate a bit more below.

No, Jim's not arguing against the practices, as he made very clear in the video. He's just mad that they're "forcing him to" or "charging him too much". Which, on both accounts, are fucking stupid reasons. If he REALLY wanted to speak out about it, he would've made a video about how retarded you have to be to spend money on a fucking cheat code or a hat for your character. But no, instead its a video on how the video game industry will burn and fall because publishers have the audacity to fish for people stupid enough or wealthy enough to pay for extra shit.
Pardon the personal interpretation, but I believe his outrage at these costs are in essence arguments against their related practices in general. It's not just price-hiking measures, it's how they're implemented.

At best, I find this problem akin to that of Product Placement in film; even if you try to ignore it, even if you walk away from it, once you're aware of it, it still cheapens the experience. Perhaps I'm a weaker person for it, but subconsciously, I hate it when I realize I just paid money for an experience and then have an advertisement shoved in my face.

At worst, well, we're seeing a trend in AAA games with more and more content focused on micro-transactions. Mass Effect 3, Dead Space 3, even Diablo 3...I call them "shell games".

Incidentally, I did some research on that iPhone/mobile Final Fantasy: All The Bravest, and Jim is right, it's a fucking terrible game.
It's so terrible in design and so greedy in its intent, I actually applauded Squeenix for making it.
FF: AtB's mere existence could be interpreted as (I do not say this with any irony or sarcasm) a statement of contempt for the FF fanbase, and the nostalgia-centric market they drive.

Squeenix really thinks their fanbase is so stupid, with such low standards that they will gobble up a game whose gameplay literally consists of rubbing once side of the screen until you win just because it has the Final Fantasy franchise stamped on it.
What blew my mind while researching this: I found people defending the game heart and soul. These people are spending money, sometimes lots of money, on SPRITES. Nothing more complicated in function or appeal, than an animated gif.

And it's because of shit like this, that I cannot get mad at Jim as you have.

I totally agree with you on the consumer taking a stand and rejecting bad offers rather than buying them and grumbling about how shitty the market is later, but there is a point where someone needs to stop and point out just how ridiculous these money grabs are getting, and that's what I took from his video.
And that's the issue that makes me so mad. Everything with the video gaming crowd is a personal insult. That game could be interpreted as a statement of contempt, or it could be interpreted as, at worst, a rushed attempt to gain a foothold in a new medium they didn't full understand. Because to believe that Enix was insulting its consumers is to believe that the higher ups at the company sat there and said, "Final Fantasy players are stupid and will buy anything."

More to the point, I don't see micro-transactions as the wave of the future, and I don't even see them as being much of a problem in the first place. People say things like Diablo 3 are signs of what's to come, because they believe the entire game was designed to center around the auction house. But even that is centered around how much you as an individual care to invest in an experience, and whether or not you want to make that experience easier. Is it more efficient and easier to just buy things off the auction house of D3 rather than go on endless loot runs? Absolutely. Is it easier to buy more energy in those facebook/free-to-play games than to just wait until it automatically refills for free? Certainly. But it's weighed by what you look for in a game. And it's not even as forceful as Jim paints it to be. There are no "Buy this, it's in the auction house now!" in D3, except from the actual players. And that's relegated to a tiny corner of the screen. And it can be closed.

Bottom line, I don't feel any of these are as active as Jim believes them to be, and him yelling about it just makes him look like a guy screaming at a billboard, "They're infecting everything! They'll be everywhere!"
 

JezebelinHell

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Atmos Duality said:
spartandude said:
Atmos Duality... you sir are my new solemate
i get so sick of the "you dont like then dont buy it and shut up" mentality so many people on these forums have but you... i just want you to hold me
Careful. I've had another person think that on here and when she tried to have conversations with me I was convinced that she was one of my friends playing a joke so I was very uptight and I was really paranoid about being abused with furries. Well, that set off her red headed stubborn streak because getting me to have a conversation was like pulling teeth even though we had things in common. Eventually she kind of just gave up on the whole thing but then I kept talking to her because the whole stalking bit was so traumatic to me and now I just keep her around for amusement so it wasn't all that bad I guess, not really like stalking at all since she only talked to me on here for the longest time. >_<
But it's good to meet a kindred spirit amidst the madness of the net.
*boots the dragon* (I am sorry, but I couldn't help myself with that typo.)

There, I fixed that bit of snark for you.

If you're complaining and so traumatized, I can go away. xp
 

irishda

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mjc0961 said:
irishda said:
I made it about halfway through the video before I couldn't watch anymore. Why? Because this entire video operates under the ridiculous premise that if something is being offered for money, then the customer has to buy it. Therefore the devs/publishers are fucking us over. Here's a tip, and this is just me, perhaps I'm reading too much into it.

DON'T BUY THE FUCKING DLC AND FRANKLY RETARDED EXTRAS THAT COME ALONG WITH SOME GAMES IF YOU DON'T WANT TO!
And this, boys and girls, is why you watch the entire video before you write a big stupid rant about something that may not be relevant. In this case, had you watched long enough, you might have made it to the part where he says that he doesn't buy most of this DLC.

So, yeah, before making a big stupid rant saying he should realize that he doesn't have to buy it, watch the video to see if he mentions that he already knows that so you don't make an ass out of yourself.

Also your thoughts on this are terrible ignorant anyway. "No complaining allowed, either buy or don't buy but shut the fuck up either way"? No. Fuuuuuuck that. We have every right to voice our complaints about terrible business practices. Whether we spend our money on it or not, we all damn well have the right to complain and no amount of "stop complaining guys!" from people like you will stop it.
Oh no, rest assured, I still watched the rest. Even including the part where he says "I would even buy some of this stuff if it wasn't ridiculously overcharged or if they didn't beat me over the head with it." In other words, Jim is wholly willing to support the shit he says he hates so much, if it just didn't cost so much, or they didn't ask him so many times. Good thing I watched far enough to see him back up his hypocritical position.

Voice your complaints all you want. Businesses don't give a shit until you stop paying them. And right now, you guys are paying them. So yes, the bitching is annoying because you guys whine and complain while still handing them money hand over fist. Then you act as though you were forced into it, like he was powerless NOT to buy the Infinite Weapon Durability.

irishda said:
No, Jim's not arguing against the practices, as he made very clear in the video. He's just mad that they're "forcing him to" or "charging him too much". Which, on both accounts, are fucking stupid reasons. If he REALLY wanted to speak out about it, he would've made a video about how retarded you have to be to spend money on a fucking cheat code or a hat for your character. But no, instead its a video on how the video game industry will burn and fall because publishers have the audacity to fish for people stupid enough or wealthy enough to pay for extra shit.
How the fuck do you know what he's speaking out against if you don't watch the video?! You already admitted that you didn't watch the entire thing, so don't sit there and act like you know what the video is about. What he said in the video and what you're claiming he said despite not watching the video are two completely different things.
Except I did. I just got pissed at the halfway point. I know exactly what he's speaking out about. Things used to be free, and now they're not.
 

ash12181987

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I am a PC Gamer.

PC Games have gotten roundly screwed for being a failing industry that no one wants to invest time into anymore. A lot of mainstream developers are abandoning it. What is coming in the place, is a series of old guard PC Game developers, publishing with GOG and Steam, and crowdfunding. A year ago I called a guy a moron on a forum because he said that crowdfunding would replace mainstream developers. Looking at my game purchases since then, and any game purchases I intend to make in the future, the only large company I have bought a game from is Activision (SC: HOS). Most of my purchases these days are small developers who just seem to Get what I want in gaming. I was dead wrong, and I have no trouble admitting that.

That is why I am perfectly content that EA is doing what they are doing. Well, content is the wrong word for it. I'm upset because when larger companies manage to screw themselves out of existence, you loose a lot of big name titles. What makes me happy though, is that despite this, we are getting more depth and complexity slowly inching it's way back into gaming. I never played shooters. I played Battlefield 1942 for a while... a long time ago. I played about 20 minutes of one of the first Modern Military Shooters online, and quit for around 7 years. I recently started playing Planetside 2. First FPS I've seen in years that had what I was looking for. I love city building games, and since Impressions went dark, I haven't had a lot to play: Now we have the games learning from Dwarf Fortress, lacking in complexity (Comparatively, but comparing a games complexity to Dwarf Fortress, is like comparing the flight speed of a parakeet to that of a lear jet) but making up for it in UI and fun. We have games creeping into existence that will begin to undermine the foundation of the larger companies while they continue to make hairbrained decisions, and people are just mad enough now to finally let that happen.

Where I am going is this: In the video Jim, you say that gaming could crash like it did in the 80s. I think we have reached the point of being self-sufficient enough that it wont happen. I say let these people make these decisions. Let them attempt to appeal to a disappearing and historically indecisive majority of media consumers, who have left them for tablets and teaspoon depth, by continuing to bilk people for every coin they can. Because it'll only be so long before they have to acknowledge what they have done wrong, by betraying their devoted base.
 

Frost27

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Jun 3, 2011
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connall said:
Jim, your desk is awesome. Where did you get the terminator and darksiders mask?

Good episode though, I do completely agree, I saw something promising but now I see some sort of frankenstein monster that these ideas have become.
You can find the Terminator on Thinkgeek, I have one on my desk at work. It helps keep me on task.
 

Ledan

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*le sigh* and this is why we can't have nice things anymore -_-
Nowadays, I can't justify impulse buys or release-price buys because there is so much stuff that feels like its missing. I think saints row 3 was the best example, because while it was an amazingly fun game it felt way too short for a 60 pricetag. I had to balance myself so i wouldnt accidentally finish the story before the optional activities.
 

Dfskelleton

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Couldn't agree more. I want to play Dead Space 3, but I'm buying it used. I don't want to give those bastards at EA any money. I would buy it new to support Visceral Games, but with that ludicrous minimum number of copies that must be sold, they're as good as dead. I guess we'll never see Dante's Inferno 2 (hey, I kind of liked the first one, despite how much it butchered one of my favorite literary works.)

Oh, and props for the System Shock 2 reference.
 

Vault101

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Sep 26, 2010
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To be honest I feel like micro transactions and such are a reality were just going to have to get used too, I am little worried how its going to affect ds3 in terms of gameplay, if its there you have to allow for it one way or another
 

Vault101

I'm in your mind fuzz
Sep 26, 2010
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grey_space said:
With a bit of luck it'll be second hand so EA will get fuck-all of my money
.
sadly you wont be hurting EA...only viceral
immortalfrieza said:
"*COUGHcausalsCOUGHandCOUGHblindfanboysCOUGH*. .
oh right...I apologise for being a fanboy moron....

if I want a game I want a game, I'm not going to deny myself on the delusion that me not buying it will somehow hurt evil old EA in any way shape or form (it wont)
 

Vault101

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Sep 26, 2010
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Kekkonen1 said:
I am so bloody tired of unimaginative AAA-games made by a committee of old greedy men who have tweaked the product so it will have such a broad market that it in reverse effect becomes virtually indistinguishable to all other AAA-games .
now this simply isnt true...

sure AAA gmaes dont vary much in terms of themes and such..but I can definetly tell the difference between dead space 3 and the new tombraider
 

geizr

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Crono1973 said:
geizr said:
And again, my answer to all this is to just not buy it. I'll be honest, I don't really deal with video-games much anymore. I play board-games more these days. I have a lot more fun, I got to interact personally with my friends, and I don't have to put up with all this bullshit. Complaining about it just doesn't do anything. Close your wallet and leave.

ADDENDUM: OMG! That ending was just awesome!! I absolutely loved that!
You don't think Jim making a video and all the people on this thread complaining about it have pushed anyone a little closer to "don't buy it"?

In groups, people are very influential.
Given some of the past behavior of gamers, not so much, no. These same companies have been doing this sort of thing for years and successfully getting away with it precisely because people keep buying it. All it takes is for the company to dangle a new, shiny game, and gamers come running to buy it, completely disregarding the mistreatment they just suffered. At what point, no matter how enticing the game, does one finally say to company X, "You have mistreated me one time too many, and I am never buying anything from you ever again"? At what point has a company crossed beyond forgiveness such that, no matter how shiny the new game, gamers simply refuse to buy ANYTHING from that company ever again (for example, I will never, ever buy anything from Ubisoft, period)?

A company only hears and understands two specific sounds, the creak of your wallet opening and the slap of your wallet closing. All other sounds are simply meaningless noise and are ignored. You can complain as much as you want, and that's fine; let the company know why you are dissatisfied. However, unless those complaints are back by definitive, decisive action, they will lack any sense of force upon the company.
 

Vault101

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Sep 26, 2010
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I actually really want to send a strongly worded email/letter to EA but not sure where to go

should I just send them an actual physical letter?
 

ex275w

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Capcom is having expectations that are too high, eh? Sucks to be DmC which hasn't been selling very well in UK and Japan. (Sold 1/3 of what DmC 4 did in the UK and 1/2 of whta id did in Japan)

The problem is that games are becoming more and more expensive because companies aren't changing how they produce games. They cut a lot of content (like 3/4s of Soul Calibur's V story mode) because they don't plan all the features or the focus of the games. The industry learns to need to manage the products it's making, it costs more to cut content in a video game than in a movie, or a cartoon.

As for monetization, I would play the games if I could pay 15 dollars to get all DLC or remove the energy systems. There's nothing worse than a game that makes you pay constantly and isn't called WoW.
 

Vault101

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CrossLOPER said:
Ask yourself: Is this a product that I want? .
YES...yes it is

Caramel Frappe said:
I loved you Dead Space ... i'm sorry to see you go like this. I know i've said this before, but it's official.. I will only remember you for the first two games unless something changes and makes me convinced I should get the third game.
you could just look at it like a "paid for" easy mode
 

Sprinal

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I'm sad he didn't mention Planetside 2. I have spent many hours there. Haven't paid a cent. Still get plenty of kills... Until I get in an aircraft... Yeah there is some benefit of paying but it's set up so that you can pay for what you want. Or work for it. Take a little bit longer. But get the same thing.

It works. I want to pay. I might get around to it... Or I might just play Dwarf Fortress.

But yeah. I haven't bought a game from EA since Red Alert 3.

Point blank refuse
 

EeviStev

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Nothing to add, just wanted to say I relate to and agree with every single word Jim said. Best Jimquisition in forever.