Jimquisition: Buyer Beware

Jimothy Sterling

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Apr 18, 2011
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Buyer Beware

Caveat Emptor is the "get out of an argument free" card for people who want to defend shoddy business practices. It's friggin' bollocks, though.

Watch Video
 

Evonisia

Your sinner, in secret
Jun 24, 2013
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Well if that new theme is for making one man laugh I'll admit that I joined in, making it two.

Anyway, yes I agree, especially because most of the consumers won't be people who will visit sites like The Escapist. They'll just believe what the advert tells them because companies aren't supposed to outright lie about their product.
 

Clowndoe

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Aug 6, 2012
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As a quiz nose and a stupid fucking dickhead* I find it annoying that you have to post videos to clarify previous ones because people don't get the message.

*Reference to Dismal Jesters, in-case anyone's wondering/getting angry
 

josh4president

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Mar 24, 2010
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Wait, Jim, didn't you mock Mass Effect fans when they expected what they were promised back with Mass Effect 3?

That doesn't sound like something a consumer advocate should do.
 

-Dragmire-

King over my mind
Mar 29, 2011
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I don't understand the point of the song replacement or if it tied into the rest of the episode in some way, but I totally enjoyed it!
 

jehk

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Mar 5, 2012
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Yep. These corporations have us by the short hairs. It shouldn't be that way and the only real thing we can do is be aware of what we're buying. Go! Go! Libertarian paradise. :p
 

jdarksun

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Nov 3, 2003
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josh4president said:
Wait, Jim, didn't you mock Mass Effect fans when they expected what they were promised back with Mass Effect 3?

That doesn't sound like something a consumer advocate should do.
What, precisely, were they "promised"?
 

PG

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Apr 2, 2008
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Did you buy the rights to use that for one video? Can't imagine it's public domain.
 

Aardvaarkman

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Jul 14, 2011
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Is this really anymore prevalent today than it was in the past?

Remember - we had E.T: The Extra Terrestrial for the Atari back in the 1980s. There has always been shovelware and outright broken games pushed onto the market. Sure, the absolute number of examples may be higher today, but that's likely because of the sheer volume of games released today.

I'd like to see some evidence that this is a "bigger problem than ever" as claimed in the video. As in, are a bigger percentage of games real eased in 2014 broken or seriously flawed, compared to previous decades? My gut feeling is that isn't the case, as games generally seem to work a lot more reliably and be more user-friendly than they were in the 80s, 90s and 2000s. There was shit that got released in previous eras that you just couldn't get away with today. Remember when you often has to troubleshoot your computer, and screw around with drivers and hacks, just to get some games to run at all?

Then there's the issue of online media - gamers have access to so many more channels of information these days with the internet. Back in the day we only had word of mouth and games magazines that were even more in the pocket of the industry than they are now. It was way harder to find answers to your problems, or balanced reviews. The average person now has a wealth of information at their fingertips which once required you to be a member of a club, or log onto obscure BBSes to obtain.
 

Legion

Were it so easy
Oct 2, 2008
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No Jim. No. I am sorry but I cannot agree with this at all...

We need the old music back.

OT: While I am a strong believer in personal responsibility and that people should pay attention to what they buy, given the sort of things we have seen in the last few years, you are completely right in saying that it's not the consumers fault entirely.

EA being sneaky with their feedback for Dungeon Keeper to make the game look more highly rated than it is.
Alien Colonial Marines with it's falsified advertisements.
Games being released without previously promised features.

While in some ways "You shouldn't pre-order games" is valid, we shouldn't be in such a situation where such things are necessary. We shouldn't be worried about whether or not the game we buy is what we were promised, because anything other than that is not something that should even be allowed in the first place.

The industry cares about money more than anything else, and that in itself (why I am not happy with it) is not wrong. But that doesn't mean they should be allowed to get it from deception, misleading customers or making it difficult to come across all of the facts.

jdarksun said:
josh4president said:
Wait, Jim, didn't you mock Mass Effect fans when they expected what they were promised back with Mass Effect 3?

That doesn't sound like something a consumer advocate should do.
What, precisely, were they "promised"?
Official Mass Effect Website
http://masseffect.com/about/story/

"Experience the beginning, middle, and end of an emotional story unlike any other,
where the decisions you make completely shape your experience and outcome."


Interview with Mac Walters (Lead Writer)
http://popwatch.ew.com/2012/02/28/mass-effect-3-mac-walters/

"[The presence of the Rachni] has huge consequences in Mass
Effect 3. Even just in the final battle with the Reapers."


Interview with Mac Walters (Lead Writer)
http://business.financialpost.com/2012/03/05/qa-mass-effect-3s-mac-walters-on-how-the-game-tries-to-reach-all-audiences/

"I'm always leery of saying there are 'optimal' endings, because I think one of the things we do try to do is make different endings that are optimal for different people "


Interview with Mike Gamble (Associate Producer)
http://www.computerandvideogames.com/334598/interviews/mass-effect-3-weve-brought-back-a-lot-of-what-was-missing-in-me2/

"And, to be honest, you [the fans] are crafting your Mass Effect story as much as we are anyway."


Interview with Mike Gamble (Associate Producer)
http://www.360magazine.co.uk/interview/mass-effect-3-has-many-different-endings/

"There are many different endings. We wouldn't do it any other way. How could you go through all three campaigns playing as your Shepard and then be forced into a bespoke ending that everyone gets? But I can't say any more than that..."


Interview with Mike Gamble (Associate Producer)
http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2012-02-02-bioware-mass-effect-3-ending-will-make-some-people-angry

"Every decision you've made will impact how things go. The player's also the architect of what happens."

"You'll get answers to everything. That was one of the key things. Regardless of how we did everything, we had to say, yes, we're going to provide some answers to these people."

"Because a lot of these plot threads are concluding and because it's being brought to a finale, since you were a part of architecting how they got to how they were, you will definitely sense how they close was because of the decisions you made and because of the decisions you didn't make"


Interview with Casey Hudson (Director)
http://www.gameinformer.com/b/features/archive/2011/04/28/casey-hudson-interview-mass-effect-3.aspx

"For people who are invested in these characters and the back-story of the universe and everything, all of these things come to a resolution in Mass Effect 3. And they are resolved in a way that's very different based on what you would do in those situations."


Interview with Casey Hudson (Director)
http://venturebeat.com/2012/03/02/casey-hudson-bioware-co-created-mass-effect-3-with-the-sometimes-cranky-fans-interview/

"Fans want to make sure that they see things resolved, they want to get some closure, a great ending. I think they?re going to get that."

"Mass Effect 3 is all about answering all the biggest questions in the lore, learning about the mysteries and the Protheans and the Reapers, being able to decide for yourself how all of these things come to an end."

Interviewer: "So are you guys the creators or the stewards of the franchise?"

Hudson: "Um? You know, at this point, I think we're co-creators with the fans. We use a lot of feedback."


Interview with Casey Hudson (Director)
http://www.gameinformer.com/b/features/archive/2012/01/10/mass1525-effect-3-cas5ey-fdsafdhudson-interviewae.aspx?PostPageIndex=2

Interviewer:
[Regarding the numerous possible endings of Mass Effect 2] "Is that
same type of complexity built into the ending of Mass Effect 3?"

Hudson:
"Yeah, and I'd say much more so, because we have the ability to build
the endings out in a way that we don't have to worry about eventually
tying them back together somewhere. This story arc is coming to an end
with this game. That means the endings can be a lot more different. At
this point we're taking into account so many decisions that you've made
as a player and reflecting a lot of that stuff. It's not even in any way
like the traditional game endings, where you can say how many endings
there are or whether you got ending A, B, or C.....The endings have a
lot more sophistication and variety in them."

"We have a rule in our franchise that there is no canon. You as a player decide what your story is."


EDIT: Couple more interesting quotes I found, enjoy......or not.

Mike Gamble (Associate Producer)
http://www.nowgamer.com/news/1027650/mass_effect_3_reapers_can_win_bioware.html

Mass Effect 3 will shake up the player's moral choices more than ever before, even going so far as allowing the Reapers to win the battle for Earth, according to BioWare's community representative Mike Gamble.


In an inteview with NowGamer at Gamescom, we asked if BioWare was taking risks with Mass Effect 3's plot, including a negative ending in which the Reapers win. Gamble simply said, "Yes". We asked him again to
confirm what he had just said and he said, "Yes".


Mike Gamble (Associate Producer)
http://www.nowgamer.com/features/1229983/mass_effect_3_developer_interview_shepard_coop_story_details.html

"Of course you don?t have to play multiplayer, you can choose to play all the side-quests in single-player and do all that stuff you?ll still get all the same endings and same information, it?s just a totally different way of playing"


Casey Hudson (Director)
http://gamescatalyst.com/2012/03/casey-hudson-kinect-the-future-of-interactive-stories/

"The whole idea of Mass Effect3 is resolving all of the biggest questions, about the Protheons and the Reapers, and being in the driver's seat to end the galaxy and all of these big plot lines, to decide what
civilizations are going to live or die: All of these things are answered in Mass Effect 3."


Casey Hudson (Director)
http://www.computerandvideogames.com/336331/interviews/mass-effect-3-we-cant-go-on-holiday-our-dlc-is-really-good/?page=2

"There is a huge set of consequences that start stacking up as you approach the end-game. And even in terms of the ending itself, it continues to break down to some very large decisions. So it's not like a classic game
ending where everything is linear and you make a choice between a few things - it really does layer in many, many different choices, up to the final moments, where it's going to be different for everyone who plays it."


Ray Muzyka (Co-Founder of Bioware)
http://penny-arcade.com/report/editorial-article/the-doctors-from-bioware-discuss-the-old-republic-launch-ending-a-trilogy-a

"I just finished an end to end playthrough, for me the ending was the most satisfying of any game I've ever played....the decisions you make in this game are epic,"

"The team has been planning for this for years, since the beginning of the Mass Effect franchise. Largely the same team, most of the same leads have worked on this for years and years. They've thought about [the ending] for years and years. It's not something they?ve had to solve in a week or a month even, but over the course of
five or ten years."

Not all of them were promises, but I feel there were enough obvious falsehoods regarding the ending in those interviews for people to consider the endings to be broken promises.

Especially these ones:

"There are many different endings. We wouldn't do it any other way. How could you go through all three campaigns playing as your Shepard and then be forced into a bespoke ending that everyone gets? But I can't say any more than that..."
Interviewer:
[Regarding the numerous possible endings of Mass Effect 2] "Is that
same type of complexity built into the ending of Mass Effect 3?"

Hudson:
"Yeah, and I'd say much more so, because we have the ability to build
the endings out in a way that we don't have to worry about eventually
tying them back together somewhere. This story arc is coming to an end
with this game. That means the endings can be a lot more different. At
this point we're taking into account so many decisions that you've made
as a player and reflecting a lot of that stuff. It's not even in any way
like the traditional game endings, where you can say how many endings
there are or whether you got ending A, B, or C.....The endings have a
lot more sophistication and variety in them."
"There is a huge set of consequences that start stacking up as you approach the end-game. And even in terms of the ending itself, it continues to break down to some very large decisions. So it's not like a classic game
ending where everything is linear and you make a choice between a few things - it really does layer in many, many different choices, up to the final moments, where it's going to be different for everyone who plays it."
Although almost everybody who reads these then pulls the "Oh, but all developers do this before games come out. It doesn't count."
 

CWestfall

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Apr 16, 2009
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That's what fucking quality control departments exist for!
Nailed it.

Though, for all the talk about how consumer trust isn't infinite, I can't help but wonder where these "buyer beware" types are even coming from. Maybe those people really do have infinite patience for shovelware.
 

Jimothy Sterling

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Apr 18, 2011
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josh4president said:
Wait, Jim, didn't you mock Mass Effect fans when they expected what they were promised back with Mass Effect 3?
I mocked aspects of it, and sympathized with other aspects of it. See my "Entitlement" episode for my views on that.

I am a consumer advocate, but that does not mean I think gamers are 100% correct at all times.

(And I also admitted I was wrong on *some* of the aspects surrounding ME3. It surprises me you have such a long-term memory, but only for outdated sections of an event)
 

Magmarock

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Sep 1, 2011
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Wow people actually disagreed with you about Steam quality control and and spouted buyer beware. Seriously I am surprised no sarcasm here. I agree with you that its' not the customers fault about 95%. I do think that the consumer had the opportunity long ago and still kind of do by simply making good on their threats to boycott. I Stopped buying games from Steam long ago because I wasn't happy with the way they were doing things. I haven't bought anything from Actervision since 2004 and Crysis was the last thing I bought from EA.


Call me a hipster but I mostly buy from indies or AA studios. There are mostly two reason, one is that AAA have kind lost appeal for me and second is because I have lost trust in the studios that produce them. If more people did this I'm sure the quality game development would change. Great video as always Jim.
 

xaszatm

That Voice in Your Head
Sep 4, 2010
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Aardvaarkman said:
Is this really anymore prevalent today than it was in the past?

Remember - we had E.T: The Extra Terrestrial for the Atari back in the 1980s. There has always been shovelware and outright broken games pushed onto the market. Sure, the absolute number of examples may be higher today, but that's likely because of the sheer volume of games released today.

I'd like to see some evidence that this is a "bigger problem than ever" as claimed in the video. As in, are a bigger percentage of games real eased in 2014 broken or seriously flawed, compared to previous decades? My gut feeling is that isn't the case, as games generally seem to work a lot more reliably and be more user-friendly than they were in the 80s, 90s and 2000s. There was shit that got released in previous eras that you just couldn't get away with today. Remember when you often has to troubleshoot your computer, and screw around with drivers and hacks, just to get some games to run at all?
Yeah, and it was the total lack of quality control that resulted in America's great video game crash. Heaps upon heaps of overblown, outdated, and simply broken games for consoles brought the games industry to its knees. The entire reason Nintendo's Seal of Quality was so lauded was not because all games with that seal were great, but rather because that seal guaranteed that the game would work on the console.

OT: I do overall agree with this Jimquisition. Though I do not think another Video Game Crash is on the horizon, there will be a huge backlash against this lack of quality control and it won't be pretty to the industry as a whole.
 

ThatNickGuy

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Apr 8, 2011
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The new intro and outro music makes me think Jim is going to appear in a sweater vest to talk to us about treating our fellow employees with respect. You know, one of those old corporate training videos.