Jimquisition: Changing A Game's Ending And Destroying Art
- Thread starter Jimothy Sterling
- Start date
You know how I think BioWare should salvage the situation? They should add in the new ending via DLC, but they should accompany it with a press release stating something along the lines of this (even if it's false):
"We are adding the ending back in that we wanted to do in the first place. The only reason we cut it is because EA forced us to, and incidentally, the reason they forced us to is because it didn't go over well with test audiences. So basically this whole fan campaign was just trying to get us to undo a change that the audience themselves demanded in the first place. And look, we're not SAYING that the consumer base are a bunch of morons who don't know what they want, but..."
This way they can put a better ending in, while preemptively crippling any further whining by damaging the base credibility of the "retake" concept. This is how they can avoid setting that horrible precedent.
"We are adding the ending back in that we wanted to do in the first place. The only reason we cut it is because EA forced us to, and incidentally, the reason they forced us to is because it didn't go over well with test audiences. So basically this whole fan campaign was just trying to get us to undo a change that the audience themselves demanded in the first place. And look, we're not SAYING that the consumer base are a bunch of morons who don't know what they want, but..."
This way they can put a better ending in, while preemptively crippling any further whining by damaging the base credibility of the "retake" concept. This is how they can avoid setting that horrible precedent.
Metroid has a rabid fanbase. More importantly, I think the line on whether Jim has a strong opinion or is just being an asshole is whether or not you agree with him. I think the fact that you're on the other side may be a factor.anthony87 said:
Or they could call it the "Retake This! DLC" and it just changes the ending to the staff giving you the finger. It's about equally illogical.Sylocat said:
Huh... I think this may be the first time Jim has made a valid point that directly opposes Moviebob's position on an issue, and in this instance I'm going to have to side with Jim.
I'm glad you took the time to look into the matter further, I really am. Thank you for that, and yes, the extremists are extreme, but most of just just want what you said: better than what's there, not really even because we deserve it, but because we feel strongly that the series does.
It's interesting.. after thinking, I've changed my mind on this. Jim's video actually reflects pretty well where I stand.
I think we do need to protect the idea that media (read 'art' if you wish, but some people seem to have a slightly narrow definition of art) should not have to function purely in accordance with what the majority of its viewers want, but I no longer think this is the place to fight that battle, and neither do I think changing ME3s ending would particularly compromise that point provided we continue to uphold it where it matters. So for what it's worth no, Retake Mass Effect isn't going to destroy art. In the short term it may well even improve Mass Effect 3 and I'm down with that, I'd buy it.
However, do a quick search for "Bioware" in gaming media and you'll probably wind up with the distinct impression that a number of very vocal "fans" of the studio are utter shits. A few people clearly do feel a sense of entitlement, they've demonstrated it countless times, and that inevitably influences how any fan complaint directed at Bioware is going to come across. That's certainly what inclined me to disregard the complaints about ME3's ending before I'd even seen the endings myself, it just came across as more senseless bitching from the same people who a couple of weeks ago were protesting that Shepherd had the option to be a gay man.
So yeah, I think Retake Mass Effect are right, but with one important caveat. They're not right because they're "co-creators" who deserve to have their personal story respected. In the grand scheme of things most of us are just consumers, we're basically pigs at the trough with disposable income. If a game deceives us into thinking we're telling a story ourselves, it's nothing more than a good deception. Well played, but anyone who actually seriously believes it is an idiot.
People spend hundreds of hours and millions of dollars crafting the experiences which you and I just passively experience. You can thumbs up the end product, you can thumbs down, you can ask for something different and put money to it and actually make it a good idea, but it's possible to do this and maintain a basic respect for the people who actually create this stuff. Games exist for your entertainment, but the people who make them do not, and as seems to be all too frequent a small minority of Bioware fans actually are just being entitled little shits. Those people need to shut up, the rest of you (us?) have a point.
I think we do need to protect the idea that media (read 'art' if you wish, but some people seem to have a slightly narrow definition of art) should not have to function purely in accordance with what the majority of its viewers want, but I no longer think this is the place to fight that battle, and neither do I think changing ME3s ending would particularly compromise that point provided we continue to uphold it where it matters. So for what it's worth no, Retake Mass Effect isn't going to destroy art. In the short term it may well even improve Mass Effect 3 and I'm down with that, I'd buy it.
However, do a quick search for "Bioware" in gaming media and you'll probably wind up with the distinct impression that a number of very vocal "fans" of the studio are utter shits. A few people clearly do feel a sense of entitlement, they've demonstrated it countless times, and that inevitably influences how any fan complaint directed at Bioware is going to come across. That's certainly what inclined me to disregard the complaints about ME3's ending before I'd even seen the endings myself, it just came across as more senseless bitching from the same people who a couple of weeks ago were protesting that Shepherd had the option to be a gay man.
So yeah, I think Retake Mass Effect are right, but with one important caveat. They're not right because they're "co-creators" who deserve to have their personal story respected. In the grand scheme of things most of us are just consumers, we're basically pigs at the trough with disposable income. If a game deceives us into thinking we're telling a story ourselves, it's nothing more than a good deception. Well played, but anyone who actually seriously believes it is an idiot.
People spend hundreds of hours and millions of dollars crafting the experiences which you and I just passively experience. You can thumbs up the end product, you can thumbs down, you can ask for something different and put money to it and actually make it a good idea, but it's possible to do this and maintain a basic respect for the people who actually create this stuff. Games exist for your entertainment, but the people who make them do not, and as seems to be all too frequent a small minority of Bioware fans actually are just being entitled little shits. Those people need to shut up, the rest of you (us?) have a point.
So he is unable to compare one extreme hardline movement that is controversial to another. Would he by that standard be unable to say make a joke about religion because that is not game related.Nicolaus99 said:
Both the tea party and the occupy movement have caused damage to public property and used inflammatory signs and chants ect. The only difference is one has the support of the capitalist class to further their agenda and the other is a simply trying to protest corporate injustice while being beaten, kettled and arrested by police for expressing their first amendment rights that you americans hold so dear when it suits.
Also calling The occupy movement protesters RAPISTS...that's a new one. I could then call teabaggers racist and a homophobes, well atleast when i say that i can atleast say that there are definately some racist homophobes within the tea party. Stay classy conservative, go watch fox news if you cant be civil and cut the bullshit from your arguments.
I think people have always taken jim way too seriously (no pun intended). Let's face it, he's one of the few people in the gaming media that will stand up and actually tell it like it is, and I can't think of one occasion where I've disagreed with him in the slightest. I love his style, because that is the only way some people (ahem publishers) will ever get it.
Keep it up Jim, because thank god for you.
Keep it up Jim, because thank god for you.
I dont want to sound presumptuous or anything but after the initial few episodes and the occasional trollbait ones thereafter(like vigilios art hole) his episodes tend to have well constructed and solid arguments, even if you don't agree with them. If you haven't watched some of his best episodes like his piracy and used game trilogy's and taking video games seriously i really think your missing out on good stuff and i'd highly recommend them.Frotality said:
Also national kirby day. Because kirby
I find that on this website people who call people "good liberals" as an insult exist. You completely ignore the rampant police brutality and complete news blackout (aside from crimes committed) committed against the occupy movement. While also ignoring ANY criticisms of the tea party movement. The rampant bigotry, that they are funded by and take their rhetoric from the capitalist class (the bourgeois if you will).Nicolaus99 said:
Face it the REASON the tea party movement is gaining strength is because they are espousing the Neo Liberal values of Reagan and Thatcher which the state and the wealthy allow to because it benefits them. Sure the occupy movement has done some stupid shit, but don't even try to paint the tea party of all things as a movement that is noble and just.
