Jimquisition: Changing A Game's Ending And Destroying Art

jdogtwodolla

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Feb 12, 2009
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Throughout the video I was thinking about the Mona Lisa and (If I remember correctly) a Famous dada interpretation of it that added a mustache. And then he pulls out the Mona Lisa and changes it himself.

I agree with the concept he's trying to get across due a tiny bit in part to dadaism but mostly because artists are already changing their and other peoples art to make something better or a whole new thing. Simple examples could include song mashups and internet-abridging.

Also I don't quite get what he didn't like about the left-4-dead 2 boycott. Was it that it's members caved and invalidated the concept by doing so? Was it because Jim didn't like the original reason behind the movement? I thought there was some validation behind the reasoning for that, simple "it's coming out too soon" and no other argument aside.
 

CarlMin

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Jun 6, 2010
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Question is whether anyone would really say that Mass Effect 3 can really constitute as a peace of art. There are certainly games out there that could be considered art, but I don't think I'd say that any Mass Effect game is up there.

As such, I really don't see any problems with altering the game in whatever way the developers thing will shut up the fanbase the quickest. Maybe they could release an expensive, alternative ending DLC. That ought to satisfy people.
 

ActionDan

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Jun 29, 2009
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I think any company that decides to change the ending of a game to pander to fans makes me lose all respect and dignity towards them. That is the story that they chose to make, you don't play MGS3 and then complain to Konami because you didn't like the ending, or any other game so I understand why the fans have called the waaaahmbulance over this.
 

scorptatious

The Resident Team ICO Fanboy
May 14, 2009
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Well said Jim. Well said.

Here's to hoping Mass Effect 3 will be the new Alien 3, and not the new Little Shop of Horrors.
 

disappointed

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Sep 14, 2011
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Questions of artistic integrity lose their relevance when you accept that ME3 probably wasn't overburdened with artistic integrity to begin with, which I think the retake movement is implicitly doing by attempting to seize the reigns from the authors.

Once you get over that then, the only question left to resolve is will changing the ending do any good? After all, it's going to be made by broadly the same people who made the first (*ahem*) set of endings, and you've already seen those - you can't unsee them. So it's not going to have the dramatic impact you want from the culmination to an epic series like this. It's going to be like all DLC - at best, a nice thing to have but with an awareness hanging over it that you wouldn't really have been missing out if you'd passed it up.

People are right to ***** and moan that the ending sucked, a fact the reviewing press largely ignored, but, questions of artistry aside, I think they're wrong to expect they can undo this misdeed. In life, stuff happens that you hate but can't change. It's a sign of maturity to move on.
 

Meatspinner

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Feb 4, 2011
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I came into this expecting the same knee-jerky condescension I've been getting from The Escapist for the past few weeks (excluding Shamus young). I was pleasantly surprised.

My hat goes off to you Jim
 

manic_depressive13

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Dec 28, 2008
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I'm not a fan of this show since I don't think crudely drawn MS penises make for compelling entertainment, but it's nice to see a contributor to this site who hasn't either immediately dismissed the fans or begun to decry a request for a logical conclusion as the bane of all artistic creation. I never even bought or played Mass Effect and even I was mildly offended by that ending. Throwing out something so rushed and nonsensical just shows that they have no artistic integrity, let alone any that needs protecting.

TL;DR: Draw better penises.
 

anthony87

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Pandabearparade said:
xaszatm said:
Actually, Bob has seen the video and made a reply on his gaming website.
I stand corrected. Though the reply in question just further cements what a pretentious douche Bob is.
I dunno, I don't think it's really fair to say he's douchey for having his own point of view. If he disagrees with the points raised in his video then that's his prerogative I guess.

What I WILL say is douchey however is the way he opens up his post, mentioning the "trolling" he's been bombarded with for the past two weeks. I mean "trolling"? Really?

Here's a thought Bob, maybe if you hadn't gone on Twitter and started insulting people while having no knowledge regarding the matter of why said people were upset, perhaps then they wouldn't be "trolling" you.
 

J.d. Scott

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Jun 10, 2011
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CarlMinez said:
Question is whether anyone would really say that Mass Effect 3 can really constitute as a peace of art. There are certainly games out there that could be considered art, but I don't think I'd say that any Mass Effect game is up there.

As such, I really don't see any problems with altering the game in whatever way the developers thing will shut up the fanbase the quickest. Maybe they could release an expensive, alternative ending DLC. That ought to satisfy people.
The problem is that your opinion doesn't and shouldn't matter. The only opinions that should matter whether a game is art or not is the people making it. If they hold the line on this, you should respect it. And one of the reasons I'm saying this is that I agree with MovieBob. This will NOT be the last we hear of this idea. The instant Bioware caved, they just gave carte blanche to a whole group of fans who will have no problem demanding new endings, changes in plot and characterization and who knows what else to any other game designer out there.

Now in a year, this might blow over. There may not be a another triple-A title with a horrible ending, but if I'm over at Ubisoft Montreal, I'm fortifying the walls before Assassin's Creed 3 comes out. They've never been particularly good at endings, and their fans are just as nuts as Bioware's. This could good be an incredibly BAD turning point for the industry, and for game writing in general. I wish I could be as optimistic as Jim is.
 

J.d. Scott

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Jun 10, 2011
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anthony87 said:
Pandabearparade said:
xaszatm said:
Actually, Bob has seen the video and made a reply on his gaming website.
I stand corrected. Though the reply in question just further cements what a pretentious douche Bob is.
I dunno, I don't think it's really fair to say he's douchey for having his own point of view. If he disagrees with the points raised in his video then that's his prerogative I guess.

What I WILL say is douchey however is the way he opens up his post, mentioning the "trolling" he's been bombarded with for the past two weeks. I mean "trolling"? Really?

Here's a thought Bob, maybe if you hadn't gone on Twitter and started insulting people while having no knowledge regarding the matter of why said people were upset, perhaps then they wouldn't be "trolling" you.
I seriously don't think that bothers Bob. His twitter account has been a nest of vitriol for a while now. I think he was more mocking the fact that the people trying to troll him had no idea what they're talking about.

People with strong opinions often get a fair amount of hatred. I think the man is pretty thick-skinned by now. You should have seen the hatred the Other M thing generated.
 

Frotality

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Oct 25, 2010
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wow... jim, the guy who i said tends to address the troll side of issues rather than the serious ones, is the ONE journalist who isnt addressing the obsessive talimancers wish of a happy ending and pulling the "art is GOD' card, and actually adressing what most of our actual concerns are.

major brownie points, jim.
 

ThunderCavalier

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Nov 21, 2009
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I do love how Jim brought up how his own first few episodes were a bit shite and he took some of the audience's advice (amidst all of the "Piss off"'s) to make a show that we fairly all appreciate.

But as it stands, it seems like the Escapist's most vocal contributors seem a bit divided over ME3's ending, so who here wants another Extra Consideration to see them blow up a part of the Internet arguing over it?
 

Davroth

The shadow remains cast!
Apr 27, 2011
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Wow, Jim. I applaud you for actually looking into a subject before making uninformed comments on it. I wish other video content producers on the side would have that kind of.. integrity?

Keep up the good work.
 

Pandabearparade

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Mar 23, 2011
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anthony87 said:
I dunno, I don't think it's really fair to say he's douchey for having his own point of view. If he disagrees with the points raised in his video then that's his prerogative I guess.
It isn't that he disagrees with me, it's his attitude and presentation. He pretends he's some guru on the topic of gaming and talks down to anyone who disagrees with him.

Hell, even -that- wouldn't bother me if he didn't straw man opposing points of view at every opportunity and call people who send him messages disagreeing with him 'trolls'.
 

anthony87

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Aug 13, 2009
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J.d. Scott said:
anthony87 said:
Pandabearparade said:
xaszatm said:
Actually, Bob has seen the video and made a reply on his gaming website.
I stand corrected. Though the reply in question just further cements what a pretentious douche Bob is.
I dunno, I don't think it's really fair to say he's douchey for having his own point of view. If he disagrees with the points raised in his video then that's his prerogative I guess.

What I WILL say is douchey however is the way he opens up his post, mentioning the "trolling" he's been bombarded with for the past two weeks. I mean "trolling"? Really?

Here's a thought Bob, maybe if you hadn't gone on Twitter and started insulting people while having no knowledge regarding the matter of why said people were upset, perhaps then they wouldn't be "trolling" you.
I seriously don't think that bothers Bob. His twitter account has been a nest of vitriol for a while now. I think he was more mocking the fact that the people trying to troll him had no idea what they're talking about.

People with strong opinions often get a fair amount of hatred. I think the man is pretty thick-skinned by now. You should have seen the hatred the Other M thing generated.
I know what you mean but there's having a strong opinion and then there's just being an asshole. Bob doesn't seem to be able to differentiate between the two.

I keep hearing mentions of all this Other M stuff. Was it really that bad?
 

That Guy Ya Know

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Sep 9, 2009
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I don't normally watch Jimquisition but this nicely sums up why I feel that whether you like the ME3 ending or not changing it still wouldn't be the end of the world. Storytelling is an inherently collaborative process and writers have the right to change parts of their story based on feedback, why should they lose that right or be stigmatised for exercising it after the release date?
 

AbstractStream

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Feb 18, 2011
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Nicely done, Jim. I like the fact that you did some of your own research before you did the video.
I caught myself nodding in agreement throughout.