I'm kinda scared atm cause seeing that guy blow his brains out didn't effect me at all. I'm not saying movies and VG have desevtised me. But I guess seeing it on a screem instead of face to face makes it unreal to me
Jimquisition: Desensitized to Violence
- Thread starter Jimothy Sterling
- Start date
I think I know why it's not destibing to me. I saw 2 planes run into buildings for 5 months over and over and over and saw a man jumping out a 100 story building over and over. I think Jim is right the violance in the News is fucking us up more than a VG or fiction.KiloFox said:
I'm not going to go through the 400 and some comments on this thread, but I am going to add my 2 cents (which will probably be buried and no one will read). I'm a firefighter/paramedic. I have seen death. I've seen a child die. I've been the one to pronounce the time of death for a 10 year old girl that was violently killed. I think about her every day.
I've seen a wife run over by her husband 3 times. I've done CPR on a 3 month old. I've pulled a man out of an ice covered river. I've seen a child die from abuse. I've had to testify in court over the physical and sexual abuse of a 4 year boy that would have continued had I not reported and documented all of it. I've had to remove a suicide victim from his semi truck that shot himself twice, first in the head, and then the chest (he lived through the first shot).
I have played games as long as I can remember. I played the first Mortal Kombat when it came out, and have played tons of "violent" video games since. So I have seen real death, and also the video game stuff. I couldn't watch the video of the man killing himself. I had no interest in watching it. I have seen enough death in real life, up close and personal, and don't want to see anymore unless I have to. I don't even like to see it on shows like Law and Order, CSI, Criminal Minds, or any of the other ones.
I am currently playing Sleeping Dogs, and I just finished Saints Row The Third. Video games to not bother me, at all. Like Jim said, it is over the top fake cartoon violence. I am disgusted by these pundits who say video games cause violence. Now, do I let my small child watch me play some games? No. He doesn't need to see it, even if it is over the top, because I think my son is too young to see anything like that so far. But I am not going to keep the stuff from him forever (he is a preschooler if you are curious).
Like I said, I'm a paramedic, and I do not like to see death. Not real death, at least. I have no problem with people that have died natural deaths, and I can, for the most part, handle most stuff without a second thought. I have had people hang themselves, overdose, ect. Those don't bother me that much. I find nothing fascinating about a violent death, though. If I could stop thinking about that little girl, I would.
I have played "violent" video games for close to 20 years now. I have no problem shooting someone in the head in TF2, or crushing someone under an engine block in Sleeping Dogs. I have seen both of those things happen in real life, and there is no comparison. They are completely different. One is a cartoon, the other is the end of someones life.
I couldn't watch the coverage of the Sandy Hook shooting. I cried when I heard about it. I can not look at the pictures of the victims. I cried not just for the kids that died, but for the children that survived, and the parents of both, and the EMS, fire, and police that responded to that call. The EMS station was next door to the school. I know that would have been my last day on the job.
I hope this gives someone pause if they think that video games desensitize people to real life violence.
I've seen a wife run over by her husband 3 times. I've done CPR on a 3 month old. I've pulled a man out of an ice covered river. I've seen a child die from abuse. I've had to testify in court over the physical and sexual abuse of a 4 year boy that would have continued had I not reported and documented all of it. I've had to remove a suicide victim from his semi truck that shot himself twice, first in the head, and then the chest (he lived through the first shot).
I have played games as long as I can remember. I played the first Mortal Kombat when it came out, and have played tons of "violent" video games since. So I have seen real death, and also the video game stuff. I couldn't watch the video of the man killing himself. I had no interest in watching it. I have seen enough death in real life, up close and personal, and don't want to see anymore unless I have to. I don't even like to see it on shows like Law and Order, CSI, Criminal Minds, or any of the other ones.
I am currently playing Sleeping Dogs, and I just finished Saints Row The Third. Video games to not bother me, at all. Like Jim said, it is over the top fake cartoon violence. I am disgusted by these pundits who say video games cause violence. Now, do I let my small child watch me play some games? No. He doesn't need to see it, even if it is over the top, because I think my son is too young to see anything like that so far. But I am not going to keep the stuff from him forever (he is a preschooler if you are curious).
Like I said, I'm a paramedic, and I do not like to see death. Not real death, at least. I have no problem with people that have died natural deaths, and I can, for the most part, handle most stuff without a second thought. I have had people hang themselves, overdose, ect. Those don't bother me that much. I find nothing fascinating about a violent death, though. If I could stop thinking about that little girl, I would.
I have played "violent" video games for close to 20 years now. I have no problem shooting someone in the head in TF2, or crushing someone under an engine block in Sleeping Dogs. I have seen both of those things happen in real life, and there is no comparison. They are completely different. One is a cartoon, the other is the end of someones life.
I couldn't watch the coverage of the Sandy Hook shooting. I cried when I heard about it. I can not look at the pictures of the victims. I cried not just for the kids that died, but for the children that survived, and the parents of both, and the EMS, fire, and police that responded to that call. The EMS station was next door to the school. I know that would have been my last day on the job.
I hope this gives someone pause if they think that video games desensitize people to real life violence.
Not overlooked.dfphetteplace said:
I basically jumped to page 12 to say the same thing. Especially the part about not being able to watch the coverage. Hell I couldn't even read the damn coverage in public. I spent nearly 5 years working in the ER of a major city and have seen my share of the results of violence, including death, which as we both know is not the worst thing that can happen to a person. Another 5 years in the mental health field (which, while somewhat related to the issue, is such a huge bag of cats that I'm not even going to go into details here). No violent media prepares you or "desensitizes" you to violence and death. Especially video games. And as you said, not even all that death and negativity in the real world truly desensitized me. If anything it made me more sensitive to it.
Great video, Jim. Excellent point made. Don't count on it getting much of a positive reaction. But then I guess you already know that isn't really possible considering the subject.
If you want a truly realistic version of anything, mod Call of Duty so that everyone shot doesn't die immediately if at all. Grenades make people's bowels tear inside their bodies and leave them screaming in agony or in shock. Shoot someone in the chest and watch them choke and drown on their own blood. Shoot someone in the leg and watch them bleed out unconscious within seconds. In the head? Skull fragment and brain out of a tiny hole, still not enough to kill them guaranteed sometimes. Rifle butting someone leaves them with broken bones and crying on the floor. Stabbing someone leaves them bleeding out and praying to whatever god they believe in as bile enters their bloodstream, guaranteeing a slow death by septisemia.
And on top of that, hook up a smell system to the game, so people can smell what someone uncontrollably shitting themselves is like, along with the irony smell of blood, decaying bodies and the smell of freshly fired gunpowder.
On top of that, show a funeral after every enemy killed where their loved ones, children, wives, grey-haired fathers, mothers, grandparents, cousins and everyone they made a good impression on weep for them.
Then pull a Johnny got his gun ending and have the player character shown only a black screen, with "Tap X to attempt to communicate with the outside world using only banging your head in morse code" written on it. And you can't turn it off.
Even that's not as bad as real violence. Sweet dreams everyone.
And on top of that, hook up a smell system to the game, so people can smell what someone uncontrollably shitting themselves is like, along with the irony smell of blood, decaying bodies and the smell of freshly fired gunpowder.
On top of that, show a funeral after every enemy killed where their loved ones, children, wives, grey-haired fathers, mothers, grandparents, cousins and everyone they made a good impression on weep for them.
Then pull a Johnny got his gun ending and have the player character shown only a black screen, with "Tap X to attempt to communicate with the outside world using only banging your head in morse code" written on it. And you can't turn it off.
Even that's not as bad as real violence. Sweet dreams everyone.
Like I said last time I think the news and historical videos of JFK assassination has made real death on tv less of a big deal, but I decided to do some research to get the context of the suicide meaning I look at the wiki http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/R._Budd_Dwyer
I've know people try and kill themselves that I would call friend one for the grace of God or random insane luck didn't succeed as well as I've know a man to kill himself for feeling he could take care of his family.
I think I would need someone shot within my presenance to be shock cause I think I distance myself and believe that the thing on TV/Internet isn't real. Of course, I have a few mental illness and have been raped twice and I'm a male. A little tmi but eeh.
I've know people try and kill themselves that I would call friend one for the grace of God or random insane luck didn't succeed as well as I've know a man to kill himself for feeling he could take care of his family.
I think I would need someone shot within my presenance to be shock cause I think I distance myself and believe that the thing on TV/Internet isn't real. Of course, I have a few mental illness and have been raped twice and I'm a male. A little tmi but eeh.
I agreed with almost everything Jim said. There's just one thing I have contention with: Being able to distinguish between real violence and fake violence is not something we're born with. It's a learned skill that develops in most of us as our brains grow. Young kids (especially below age 6-8 or so) have a difficult time distinguishing reality from fiction. Moreover, the younger they are (up to a point), many of them tend to be mimic-machines. So as such, I do believe there is still a crucial responsibility for parents to keep realistically violent games out of sight from those kids.
On another subject, the attack on the news media was spot on. This really needs to be fixed or our current domino-effect of school shootings will perpetuate itself. It really makes me sick.
On another subject, the attack on the news media was spot on. This really needs to be fixed or our current domino-effect of school shootings will perpetuate itself. It really makes me sick.
Man that was disturbing. It reminds me of some footage from police dashcam where the policeman stops a pickup truck on some US highway. The policeman approaches the driver's side, and the driver comes out. He's dressed like a Vietnam veteran. Things go sour, and the cop shows incredible restraint when the man reaches into his pickup to pull out a rifle. A firefight ensues. You don't actually see much of the violence, but you can hear it. The police officer takes a few hits, and goes to hide behind his squad car. You can hear him screaming for backup. You can tell he is wounded pretty badly as well. The assailant walks towards the officer, and you can hear the policeman beg for his life. And you hear another gunshot, and it's silent. I enjoy all manner of violent video games, but that video shook me to the core. I'll never forget it.Jimothy Sterling said:
No man is an island,Wesley Brannock said:
Entire of itself.
Each is a piece of the continent,
A part of the main.
If a clod be washed away by the sea,
Europe is the less.
As well as if a promontory were.
As well as if a manor of thine own
Or of thine friend's were.
Each man's death diminishes me,
For I am involved in mankind.
Therefore, send not to know
For whom the bell tolls,
It tolls for thee.
You cannot just treat every incident as a stand alone incident. Now, as for anything else? You have just gone off on a rather interesting rant about how you hate the news media. With incredibly poor formatting that makes it rather difficult to read. But you do not really come across as a rational individual, so I guess that helps.
With regards to how the media reports things? It depends on the news outlet to be honest. Al Jazeera reports in a different way from the BBC, Both report in a different way to Faux News. Some are more reputable then others.
If a society gets plagued by mass shootings (Seriously, the states faces them a lot more then anyone else) then perhaps you should look to society and further than the individual.
As a gamer who enjoys violent games (and is also convinced that violent games saved me from my rage and frustration in high school), and who REALLY enjoys paintball...
I could not watch it.
I had to pause the video when he pointed the gun and hesitate for a good 3 minutes before deciding that I did not want to expose myself to that.
Excellent video, Jim. Brilliantly made point. Thank the mods for you.
I could not watch it.
I had to pause the video when he pointed the gun and hesitate for a good 3 minutes before deciding that I did not want to expose myself to that.
Excellent video, Jim. Brilliantly made point. Thank the mods for you.
I feel bad that I wasn't super shocked in the immediate. However it left a little sickening feeling in my stomach as time went on. Hopefully I am not a sociopath, and aspergers syndrome is the only anti social disorder I have.
I agree with the points you brought up Jim.
This is the fifth real death I've seen in news footage, and I've seen some holocaust films that seem to be the only staged non-real media able to portray the way people died in those reports. Schindlers list has some of those for example.
First, the Kennedy assasination. The famous footage of an execution of a Vietcong prisoner. A piece of footage of a crazy person getting gunned down by a dozen cops in front of a one-story vanilla-suburb house. A piece of AP footage from Egypts revolution in 2011, where someone is dropped by assault rifle fire in the middle of a highway. And now this guy blowing up his brains. It's the only bit I saw any blood in. This was especially surprising of the man the cops shot in front of a house.
What they all have in common is that these people(all men btw) just drop as if someone flipped a light switch. Good night, it's over, you're literally dead fucking meat.
And no game has ever done that, though in some ways Spec Ops The Line came closest IMHO and that deserves to be experienced since it handles the horrors of the story so well.
I also saw a dead guy, covered up by the cops just once, outside my 3rd story window here in Berlin. A few hours earlier as I was half asleep in the early morning something had flown past my window. It turns out that was the guy commiting suicide by jumping through his window opposite my building. I don't think I've ever felt queasier than that day when I looked at that guys foot poking out from under the cover the cops had draped over him.
In no way, ever, did a game ever make me feel that way.
I've also fired blanks with a gun. We're big on fireworks here at New Years Eve. Soldiers and police officers train all the time with their weapons to get used to the sheer power and loudness of shots fired with a real, heavy gun. I absolutely despise guns, I'm fascinated by them and I fear them. The brutality of real guns just cannot be portrayed in games. You would require a cinema sound reproduction system and the proper sound to get just a little close. I'm a sound engineer and know how loud real guns actually are. 20 dB of gain represents a tenfold increase in level. 6 dB doubles the level, 20 dB increases it tenfold. A jet engine, which many of us know is 120-140 dB SPL (Sound Pressure Level). A rock concert 100-110 dB SPL. A very loud conversation 85-95 dB SPL. Quiet room ambiancee where you can hear your breathing ~30 dB SPL. A 9mm handgun shot at 1 meter distance on the side is 164 dB SPL. That just 16 dB shy of what a space shuttle take off used to be (~180 dB SPL at 100 meters distance). So a handgun shot is a short-duration event that's around 1000 times louder(60dB) than a rock concert.
That's the violence in terms of sound I'm talking about, not that phewphew stuff in games, where people shouldn't be hurt or subjected to nasty surprises, unless it serves the game.
I honestly don't know just how crazy I'd have to be to fire a gun at another human being. So fucking crazy, I can't imagine it. And I, personally, don't want to imagine it.
Games just haven't got a snowball-in-hell chance of doing that. It seems utterly ridiculous, like drinking coffee might make you go crazy.
I do hope that scientists do find out a little more about what leads to people go that crazy. We could use some knowledge in that direction to combat the fear-crazy we now see.
This is the fifth real death I've seen in news footage, and I've seen some holocaust films that seem to be the only staged non-real media able to portray the way people died in those reports. Schindlers list has some of those for example.
First, the Kennedy assasination. The famous footage of an execution of a Vietcong prisoner. A piece of footage of a crazy person getting gunned down by a dozen cops in front of a one-story vanilla-suburb house. A piece of AP footage from Egypts revolution in 2011, where someone is dropped by assault rifle fire in the middle of a highway. And now this guy blowing up his brains. It's the only bit I saw any blood in. This was especially surprising of the man the cops shot in front of a house.
What they all have in common is that these people(all men btw) just drop as if someone flipped a light switch. Good night, it's over, you're literally dead fucking meat.
And no game has ever done that, though in some ways Spec Ops The Line came closest IMHO and that deserves to be experienced since it handles the horrors of the story so well.
I also saw a dead guy, covered up by the cops just once, outside my 3rd story window here in Berlin. A few hours earlier as I was half asleep in the early morning something had flown past my window. It turns out that was the guy commiting suicide by jumping through his window opposite my building. I don't think I've ever felt queasier than that day when I looked at that guys foot poking out from under the cover the cops had draped over him.
In no way, ever, did a game ever make me feel that way.
I've also fired blanks with a gun. We're big on fireworks here at New Years Eve. Soldiers and police officers train all the time with their weapons to get used to the sheer power and loudness of shots fired with a real, heavy gun. I absolutely despise guns, I'm fascinated by them and I fear them. The brutality of real guns just cannot be portrayed in games. You would require a cinema sound reproduction system and the proper sound to get just a little close. I'm a sound engineer and know how loud real guns actually are. 20 dB of gain represents a tenfold increase in level. 6 dB doubles the level, 20 dB increases it tenfold. A jet engine, which many of us know is 120-140 dB SPL (Sound Pressure Level). A rock concert 100-110 dB SPL. A very loud conversation 85-95 dB SPL. Quiet room ambiancee where you can hear your breathing ~30 dB SPL. A 9mm handgun shot at 1 meter distance on the side is 164 dB SPL. That just 16 dB shy of what a space shuttle take off used to be (~180 dB SPL at 100 meters distance). So a handgun shot is a short-duration event that's around 1000 times louder(60dB) than a rock concert.
That's the violence in terms of sound I'm talking about, not that phewphew stuff in games, where people shouldn't be hurt or subjected to nasty surprises, unless it serves the game.
I honestly don't know just how crazy I'd have to be to fire a gun at another human being. So fucking crazy, I can't imagine it. And I, personally, don't want to imagine it.
Games just haven't got a snowball-in-hell chance of doing that. It seems utterly ridiculous, like drinking coffee might make you go crazy.
I do hope that scientists do find out a little more about what leads to people go that crazy. We could use some knowledge in that direction to combat the fear-crazy we now see.
Well, I play Left 4 Dead religiously every night. Can't get more gory than that. And yet, I didn't have the balls to watch that part.
That's not to say that because I play L4D I should be a mindless, heartless robot. In fact, I'll admit I'm a pussy. As cool as the thought of traversing the world, sword in hand, slaying all sorts of evil and riding a white horse while being called the hero of Ferelden would be, I know that if given the chance (In some sort of alternate universe?), I'd probably still pussy out. I shy away from real violence. As a matter of fact, I think I can be called a pacifist. And I think it's the same with the majority of gamers. It's not because most of us are weak nerds who just wanna go home and play games. It's because we're normal; because we're just enjoying a hobby. I hate to bring this up but...I don't see movie or book enthusiasts getting as much crap as we gamers do.
People who commit acts of violence are already sick in the head. Then don't need to play videogames to push them over the edge. Hell, they could have read a book and experience the same thing. Those who say videogames have made them violent use them as a scapegoat cause it's an easy cop out. "Oh...uh, I killed people. Because videogames. I'm a victim here, really".
What's even worse is the retards who actually believe it. "Well! I don't know much about videogames...but if he said it, then it must be true! Burn all videogames everrrrr!".
What's worse is that it's not gonna change because, again, those accusing videogames of being violent don't actually give a crap about videogames. It's easier to point and judge from afar than sit down and understand what they're accusing at the risk of being wrong.
That's not to say that because I play L4D I should be a mindless, heartless robot. In fact, I'll admit I'm a pussy. As cool as the thought of traversing the world, sword in hand, slaying all sorts of evil and riding a white horse while being called the hero of Ferelden would be, I know that if given the chance (In some sort of alternate universe?), I'd probably still pussy out. I shy away from real violence. As a matter of fact, I think I can be called a pacifist. And I think it's the same with the majority of gamers. It's not because most of us are weak nerds who just wanna go home and play games. It's because we're normal; because we're just enjoying a hobby. I hate to bring this up but...I don't see movie or book enthusiasts getting as much crap as we gamers do.
People who commit acts of violence are already sick in the head. Then don't need to play videogames to push them over the edge. Hell, they could have read a book and experience the same thing. Those who say videogames have made them violent use them as a scapegoat cause it's an easy cop out. "Oh...uh, I killed people. Because videogames. I'm a victim here, really".
What's even worse is the retards who actually believe it. "Well! I don't know much about videogames...but if he said it, then it must be true! Burn all videogames everrrrr!".
What's worse is that it's not gonna change because, again, those accusing videogames of being violent don't actually give a crap about videogames. It's easier to point and judge from afar than sit down and understand what they're accusing at the risk of being wrong.
I've got to say I agree, Spec Ops: The Line made me feel bad and I play Halo a lot -not exactly the most realistic shooter on the planet but it still made me question my enjoyment of it. I felt very drained when I completed spec ops the first time round. At the end I couldn't decide at the end there is a choice that after the whole story made me question many things and I didn't play any shooters for while after that. The odd thing about spec ops is it's game play isn't unique and has the pretty much standard shooter graphics of this generation but there are the harrowing details like fallen enemies writhing around the floor in pain (an issue I had with GTA4 amplified) that make it so effective and unlike many video games the consequences impact on the character and you.lax4life said:
It is when things become realistic that it becomes disturbing, often we can cope with idea of things but as soon as we are faced with the reality of something we can't handle it and whilst horrible I get Jim's point it's a good thing, it proves we aren't changed by cartoon violence, we still don't like real violence.
The clip is disturbing, I regret not skipping it and I'll do my best to forget it but I get why he showed it at least he warned us.
I found that video pretty disturbing to watch.
I don't know why but as a medical student I have no problems assisting on bloody open surgery but videos and images like the video shown here are still disturbing despite being much 'tamer' than many things I've seen IRL which pose no problems.
I don't know why but as a medical student I have no problems assisting on bloody open surgery but videos and images like the video shown here are still disturbing despite being much 'tamer' than many things I've seen IRL which pose no problems.
you have a very good point sir, and i believe that's a point that Jim was trying to get accross in his video.Brad Gardner said:
however i personally never watched any 9/11 footage because A) i don't watch, not trust, the news, and B) i didn't have access to a TV back then.
What disturbs me about the video isn't as much in the content, rather the way in which it was presented. For the camera man to zoom in and focus on Dwyer after it happened...
Well, frankly I can't understand why any human being would want to get a clearer shot of it.
Well, frankly I can't understand why any human being would want to get a clearer shot of it.
The 9/11 footage is some of the most horrible footage ever, seeing those planes hitting the building knowing they are full of hundreds of people. Knowing that the towers are full of thousands of people, even worse knowing everyone above the impact has no way of escaping.Brad Gardner said:
Then to top it off you see people, humans just like me. Humans with lives and families and friends. Then you see those people preferring to jump to their death instead of burning or suffocating to death. Finally you see the collapse of the towers, still with people inside. In some ways I really wish the news and documentary channels would stop airing it so much. It was a significant part of history and obviously deserves recognition, but to keep showing the suffering and death of thousands of people is just to much
Hmm... This video disturbed me...
Not because of the "Disturbing Footage" but my reaction to it, or lack thereof... Combined with the "Any sane person" line made me question myself...
That said my complete desensitisation to violence (Both real and video game) is probably due to my past (Was in a gang that actively used guns when I was younger, have been stabbed multiple times and seen various people (Friends and family) die) rather than any sort of bullshit about games causing violence.
I don't like how the media keeps spinning the story to show that video games caused violence in some form of another when it is actually a disturbed and violent individual whom happens to play video games (They probably also watched TV, looked at news in some form, ate food, breathed air...)
For example the multiple murders that occurred when Manhunt was released, the blame was put solely on the game when it was a individual who happened to use a technique of murder that appeared in the game (Not even a original one, it was suffocation via a plastic bag over the head, not hard to think up for anyone with the inclination for pre-meditated murder)
I hate how this portrayal by the media both effects how people see gamers (Especially if you also like the music genre of "Metal" which was I believe the last media scapegoat for causing violence) and also how it affects game design and distribution (Not allowing for more visceral action, no allowing for games to show the horrors of war with truly shocking moments and the inability for various countries to sell certain games due to having laws against violence and such)
Edit:
Not because of the "Disturbing Footage" but my reaction to it, or lack thereof... Combined with the "Any sane person" line made me question myself...
That said my complete desensitisation to violence (Both real and video game) is probably due to my past (Was in a gang that actively used guns when I was younger, have been stabbed multiple times and seen various people (Friends and family) die) rather than any sort of bullshit about games causing violence.
I don't like how the media keeps spinning the story to show that video games caused violence in some form of another when it is actually a disturbed and violent individual whom happens to play video games (They probably also watched TV, looked at news in some form, ate food, breathed air...)
For example the multiple murders that occurred when Manhunt was released, the blame was put solely on the game when it was a individual who happened to use a technique of murder that appeared in the game (Not even a original one, it was suffocation via a plastic bag over the head, not hard to think up for anyone with the inclination for pre-meditated murder)
I hate how this portrayal by the media both effects how people see gamers (Especially if you also like the music genre of "Metal" which was I believe the last media scapegoat for causing violence) and also how it affects game design and distribution (Not allowing for more visceral action, no allowing for games to show the horrors of war with truly shocking moments and the inability for various countries to sell certain games due to having laws against violence and such)
Edit:
Morbid curiosity. It's incredibly strange yet very common, people like to look at death and extreme injuries. Especially if it's something shocking and uncommon like watching someone commit suicide, then of course add in that it may also be so shocking that it could have been thought to be a joke and looking closer allows the reality of what happened to set in.Nash said: