Jimquisition: Diversity? LIEversity!

Canadamus Prime

Robot in Disguise
Jun 17, 2009
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Ultratwinkie said:
canadamus_prime said:
When it comes to Assassin's Creed Unity they could've just said that a female protagonist wouldn't have fit with the setting and time period. Sure they could've still made a female protagonist work with that setting and time period, but it would've been a much more valid excuse than saying it's too expensive.
and this is the same game where mayans built a holographic projector using a crystal cube that somehow holds blood plus a matching skull.. The same game where a pirate could afford to plate his entire ship in iron long before it became the norm and long before a shipwright would have been able to do it. Yet every harbormaster has an army of expert blacksmiths on hand.

The same game where the very same pirate melted down gold to make his cannons, his guns, and his mortar. On an incredibly tiny ship that can hold shit loads of cargo and have loads of crew members.

AC threw history out the window a long time ago. They can't hide there either. History nerds would be going through every instance of anachronism to the point AC would be more controversy than game.
As I said to Skull Bearer, it wouldn't have been a perfect excuse, just more believable than saying that a female protagonist is "too expensive."
 

MCerberus

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Jun 26, 2013
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Tripwire pulled the same excuse in Killing Floor. While the VO excuse is slightly more believable (finding someone to do bizarre cockney), they were called out on the modeling.

They started making a playable female squaddie after they were shown up by a custom model that used male animations. They released it as DLC. IT RAINED MONEY UPON THEM.


I know AAA devs really hate looking at AA devs and what they do, because it burns them that they once made games because they had a passion for it, but damn, there's the evidence.
 
Dec 14, 2009
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I hope you feel better soon, Jim :3


I for one love the prospect of playing as a woman in games, I can't wait to use Zelda and Impa in Hyrule Warriors, and the rumour that the new Link in Zelda WiiU might be a woman got me chomping at the bit (although that was later debunked I think.)
 

Uriel_Hayabusa

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Apr 7, 2014
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Animating and finding VAs for female characters is too much work?

Oh, so that's why Beyond Good & Evil still doesn't have a sequel! It all makes sense now!
 

PirateRose

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Aug 13, 2008
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Pfft, if it was really a money issue, having more women voice actors would probably save these companies a ton.

I bet you Jennifer Hale got paid less than Mark Meer for voicing Commander Shepard.

But that's besides the point. From my understanding, Aveline de Grandpre from Liberation shares the same animations with Conner from Assassins Creed 3. Also, considering the American Revolution is about a decade away from the French Revolution, considering Aveline is French and probably has more family and friends in France, and is an assassin, there is absolutely no excuse good enough to not have included Aveline as a playable character for Unity.
 

freaper

snuggere mongool
Apr 3, 2010
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Yea Ubi, get on it! I want a shapely female bum to stare at when climbing buildings in my next Asscreed!
 

C.S.Strowbridge

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Jul 22, 2010
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Jimothy Sterling said:
C.S.Strowbridge said:
I disagree with one point. Those that say, "Dur... Social justice warrior" as if it were an insult is an idiot.
I was trying to be a bit more diplomatic this time. :)
I'm older than you are. I don't have time for diplomacy anymore.
 

RunicFox

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Aug 9, 2010
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Interesting that absolutely no developing house has come out and walked customers through the process of creating anything.

I'm not going to defend them. What they did, what they said, how they've addressed everything has been poor. At best. For a company I was beginning to respect, they clearly have no hold on their audience.

That said, working in games I understand the process that may have lead to it, even if I don't agree with it. When we make anything, any part of a game, many people touch it. Many people are needed to approve it. Finally, it lands in the hands of testers or consumer groups who rate it. At each step, there is a potential chopping block.

I don't know what lead them to cut female characters from a multiplayer game, but it's a symptom of the problem, not the problem itself. From where I stand, these companies are putting their eggs into one basket, which is aptly called "Consumer Insights" -- commonly known as consumer testing. When you have a vocal minority, generally your core fans of a game, asking for a feature and it is ignored...this is what happens.


It's also strike two, after the farcry 4 box art issue. Media is paying attention, fans are paying attention, act smart.
 

Reasonable Atheist

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Mar 6, 2012
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ug.... just ug....

Games are art, they can make whatever art they want, i wish they did not make the lame excuse at all. Honestly, they do not owe anyone an excuse.
 

KazeAizen

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Jul 17, 2013
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canadamus_prime said:
When it comes to Assassin's Creed Unity they could've just said that a female protagonist wouldn't have fit with the setting and time period. Sure they could've still made a female protagonist work with that setting and time period, but it would've been a much more valid excuse than saying it's too expensive.
It might've actually been worse because, according to history buffs, women actually did have a very active and apparently impactful role during the French Revolution. So actually when you come across that kind of info its even more insulting that they don't have a female protagonist. Sure not every game needs one but when making a game, especially historical fiction, there are certain things to take into account. I'm willing to bet what happened is something like Jim said. Just the way they actually develop. Their method of development probably would cost them a good amount of money to include a female playable character in the game. Which in that case means no one even thought about it early enough in production to prioritize it, therefore allowing them to budget for it. With as much money as they make any half assed budget guy could budget out the money to make a female protagonist and still get the game the way they want it.

However it would appear that its the train scenario from Back to the Future Part 3. They've past the point of no return and they can't turn back now without possibly screwing themselves over or digging a gigantic pit of debt. So when I hear them saying that its "too expensive" what I'm hearing is. "We never planned on it to begin with and we've reached a point in development where it would cost more to put her in then to exclude her." Of course if history is any indicator a lot of the damage from this stuff can be mitigated if you get a decent PR team. Which apparently Ubisoft also doesn't have the money for.
 

An Ceannaire

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Mar 5, 2012
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PirateRose said:
Pfft, if it was really a money issue, having more women voice actors would probably save these companies a ton.

I bet you Jennifer Hale got paid less than Mark Meer for voicing Commander Shepard.
What are you basing that assumption on?
 

AmberSword

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Jun 16, 2014
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Personally, I think Ubisoft isn't really as stupid as people claim. The truth is they probably still have this Draconian belief that only games featuring Male protagonists would sell well, I really see no other reason for this bullshit.
 

MCerberus

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Jun 26, 2013
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Oh god I just had a realization. There's only one reason the animation would be drastically different between male and female assassins. They were planning female assassins.

They were just planning female assassins with porn bodies, including massive tits that would get in the way.

captcha: goes to eleven. I'm reminded of Soul Calibur's breast slider at this point

edit- oh, and btw Ubisoft, CoD freaking 2 had female soldiers in it. They used the same animation, it was historically accurate, and it was one of those little touches that don't come from a focus group and makes games better.
 

YoungZer0

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Nov 28, 2007
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I don't think the devs could do right with an attitude like this. You want the truth? They probably couldn't be bothered. They didn't want it. The end.

It was never an officially confirmed feature, so they don't owe you any apoligy. And yet you demand it and then you're insulted when you get one.

They don't OWE you features they never promised in the first place, the only thing they owe you is a game that works and Ubisoft already had trouble delivering that in the past. Yet you want them to waste (yes, waste) resources and time (probably already crunching), so you can see female avatars next to you?

Stop spreading misinformation. You don't see yourself as a different avatar, you see yourself as the main character. Only your coop partners see you as a different avatar. So why would it make sense to have the people next to you running around as female when they are actually playing a male character?

It made sense in Watch_Dogs as you had to hide as a random NPC and limiting that to only male characters would break the gameplay.

This is not even a gender issue, it's an entitlement issue. And before any of you tell me how women feel about this (because you all asked a woman about her opinion on this first, right?). I asked my female gamer friends about this. Guess what? They were all insulted and mad ... until I told them that they don't see their avatar. They (4 of them) didn't see the point of "controversy". I wasn't mad when I first heard it. I thought it was a missed opportunity, but when I heard the details about the story, I couldn't help but side with the devs. 'specially after the ridiculous reaction this supposed controversy got.

What upsets me the most is that you guys are biting the hand that feeds you. You, the Political correctness crowd, Ubisoft is pandering to you guys. That's why their games are so boring and so afraid to make a statement about ... anything. They are afraid to hurt your little feelings as anything that might offend you, offends you.

You had an arab, italian, native-american, african-french woman, irish and an african-american man and you dare say Lieversity? How much more diversity can you get?

Better "check your privilege". Before this new assassin, there was an equal amount of black and white assassins. But you wouldn't write about that, right?

Right now, you're on the same level as the people who demanded DmC: Devil May Cry to be changed.
 

Dr.Awkward

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Mar 27, 2013
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You're right about how bloated Ubisoft's staffing has become. Have you ever attempted to watch the credits on some of their recent games? I have. Three times - AC2, ACB, and Blood Dragon. The credits themselves is 20-30 minutes long, and a large portion of those credits mention people that have nothing to do with your version of the game.

Maybe it's time for Ubi to take a good, hard look at its own staffing, and either reform their current oversized teams into several smaller, more efficent teams, or despite being a tough industry already, release them from the company. I have a feeling that one huge failure is enough to push them over the edge.
 

An Ceannaire

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Mar 5, 2012
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Reasonable Atheist said:
ug.... just ug....

Games are art, they can make whatever art they want, i wish they did not make the lame excuse at all. Honestly, they do not owe anyone an excuse.
That's the message I'm taking away from this at least. Nobody can deny developers the right to make their characters whatever they want them to be. But don't walk out some bullshit excuse when the Social Justice crowd comes banging on your studio door. People are entitled to complain, but you're entitled to ignore them. Because fundamentally, games are a form of creative media and hence a form of art.
 

jaateloauto

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Jan 23, 2008
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Games company makes bullshit excuses in response to accusations. News at 11. And the accusation and reaction to Ubisoft's claims does sound like typical SJW stuff to me.
 

Pseudonym2

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Mar 31, 2008
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Wasn't there a female/women/human playable character in the multiplayer for Far Cry 4? Not only are they not moving forward, they are moving backward. And one guy wondered why I though UBI soft might be backing the aristocrats like the Scarlett Pimpernel.