Jimquisition: Emotions, Polygons, and Ellen Page

Sonder Saunters

New member
Oct 24, 2009
77
0
0
Jim your David Cage comes off as a bit Tommy Wiseau. But then again, everyone one in Ethan's family in "Heavy Rain" had that accent. You should wear a David Cage mask to conventions and say "Oh hi, Mark" to people. It would be glorious! And creepy! GLORPY!
 

Nepenthe87

New member
Apr 28, 2011
33
0
0
The_Echo said:
That was a good parody; I chuckled a fair amount. I think that bloating his statements from the Sony thing into some big ol' thing is a bit much. Still funny, and extra points for committing to the joke the whole video.

But the implication that Cage's games are 'filth' in the beginning there? I mean... [small]I thought they were good...[/small]
He didnt say filth, he said film, implying that David Cage would rather be a movie director than make video games.
 

Soak

New member
Sep 21, 2010
139
0
0
Gah, he went crazy, someone call the guys with the straitjackets in pack...

On topic:
Ok, point taken, partially because of the mind melting parodie, i admit, but please, don't do that again.
Wasn't it last year when some devs explained over the latest high end graphics, that video game graphics can hardly get any more hyperrealistic and that this is the very reason devs should reconsider their focus or something?
But honestly, as long as there are others who know how to prove douches like David Cage wrong and bring us stuff like 'Lone Survivor', 'To The Moon' or in a way even 'Hotline Miami' (mind tripping as it is) i won't really care about those rather ridicules statements.
 

Tharwen

Ep. VI: Return of the turret
May 7, 2009
9,145
0
0
zebon said:
Needed less David Cage impression and more discussing why his views are delusional.
I think it did a perfectly good job of showing why his views are delusional.
 

Gregg Johnson

New member
Jul 25, 2012
39
0
0
So... that was pretty fucking pointless. Seriously, was this whole episode just about making fun of David Cage? Because I didn't get any other content out of this.

Usually I love watching Jimquisition for the great points he raises, but this one seemed more like a red herring...
 

Preacher zer0

New member
Jun 13, 2010
123
0
0
Block Jim on twitter... that's a paddlin'

Tell Jim you're gonna "fuck him up" for dissing someone on Twitter... that's a paddlin'

Seems like if you want a Jimquisition episode devoted to you or someone you love, giving Jim flak on twitter is the way to go.

Can we get back to the jurnalizm bit now?
 

JudgeGame

New member
Jan 2, 2013
437
0
0
s_h_a_d_o said:
cyvaris said:
That was....interesting and a great parody.
Not really.

David Cage may appear to commit the crime of pretentiousness at times, however that is often the case with those who are both passionate and creative.

Until Jim actually demonstrates some talent in respect to the latter, he strikes me as guilty to a far greater degree.
Have you played any of Quantic Dreams' games?
 

JudgeGame

New member
Jan 2, 2013
437
0
0
Trollhoffer said:
JohnnyDelRay said:
Another thing that comes to mind, the Extra Credits episode a while back about game soundtracks. Why are they so much more 'memorable' and amazing from the 8 and 16-bit days? Because of the limited sounds and instruments that could be programmed into each game, they had to rely on making the melodies really catchy and stick in your mind, and also to not get annoying. This took a lot of work and ingenuity of course.

But does that mean that nowadays, we shouldn't have the beautifully composed, layered orchestras that accompany games like Final Fantasy and Mass Effect, or Jesper Kyd's atmospheric sounds? That option is to us, and does it not succeed in creating emotion when used effectively? Do you want to go back to 16-bit sounds? Ok, I myself remember soundtracks from games I played in those days, very guilty of it in fact (hardly remember themes of these days longer than a few months after putting a game down, except for Skyrim), but I'm glad we have the technology and continue to push it. There's nothing wrong with pushing these boundaries, people!
The thing is that the "rules" for creating good music have remained constant. Additional tools have certainly empowered game music, but it's interesting to note that a lot of the best video game music is modern arrangements of those 8 and 16-bit classics. Having authentic instruments playing those pieces absolutely makes them better, in my book. But they were composed so gracefully in the first place that they don't hinge on modern technological capacities in delivering music within video games, and there's no doubt a lot of modern games suffer from a lack of good music -- especially the ones in a place to deliver something amazing.

Many of the biggest games of our generation have failed to deliver memorable music. God of War, Call of Duty, World of Warcraft and so on. These are games that have earned a lot of attention, money and gameplay hours, but they don't have a musical experience that's just as effective outside of the game. In comparison, games like The Legend of Zelda and Final Fantasy have extremely memorable music that carries the meaning of its original context outside of the game experience itself.
Also, the difference in cost of producing an 8-bit track and an orchestral theme is tiny in comparison to the money the average AAA game pisses away on graphics.
 

JudgeGame

New member
Jan 2, 2013
437
0
0
Preacher zer0 said:
Block Jim on twitter... that's a paddlin'

Tell Jim you're gonna "fuck him up" for dissing someone on Twitter... that's a paddlin'

Seems like if you want a Jimquisition episode devoted to you or someone you love, giving Jim flak on twitter is the way to go.

Can we get back to the jurnalizm bit now?
That's a pretty stack of irony you've built there.
 

s_h_a_d_o

Mr Propellerhead
Jun 15, 2010
134
0
0
JudgeGame said:
s_h_a_d_o said:
cyvaris said:
That was....interesting and a great parody.
Not really.

David Cage may appear to commit the crime of pretentiousness at times, however that is often the case with those who are both passionate and creative.

Until Jim actually demonstrates some talent in respect to the latter, he strikes me as guilty to a far greater degree.
Have you played any of Quantic Dreams' games?
Yes.
Which one of those critically-acclaimed games did you have in mind, particularly?
(and perhaps, a point to make?)
 

JudgeGame

New member
Jan 2, 2013
437
0
0
s_h_a_d_o said:
JudgeGame said:
s_h_a_d_o said:
cyvaris said:
That was....interesting and a great parody.
Not really.

David Cage may appear to commit the crime of pretentiousness at times, however that is often the case with those who are both passionate and creative.

Until Jim actually demonstrates some talent in respect to the latter, he strikes me as guilty to a far greater degree.
Have you played any of Quantic Dreams' games?
Yes.
Which one of those critically-acclaimed games did you have in mind, particularly?
The ones that had cringeworthy dialogue, really uncanny character animations and a plot that seemed to be written while dropping acid (i.e. almost all of them).

PS I forgot to add that they are cliche-riddled in the worst way.
 

s_h_a_d_o

Mr Propellerhead
Jun 15, 2010
134
0
0
JudgeGame said:
[snip]

The ones that had cringeworthy dialogue, really uncanny character animations and a plot that seemed to be written while dropping acid (i.e. almost all of them).

PS I forgot to add that they are cliche-riddled in the worst way.
And what was your point?
I'm not debating a lack of pretension on the part of Cage - merely indicating that it is at least born of passionate creativity (the success or failure of which is irrelevant). Jim's display of that same trait stems from critical negation and destruction, and therefore has less merit.
 

JudgeGame

New member
Jan 2, 2013
437
0
0
s_h_a_d_o said:
JudgeGame said:
[snip]

The ones that had cringeworthy dialogue, really uncanny character animations and a plot that seemed to be written while dropping acid (i.e. almost all of them).

PS I forgot to add that they are cliche-riddled in the worst way.
And what was your point?
I'm not debating a lack of pretension on the part of Cage - merely indicating that it is at least born of passionate creativity (the success or failure of which is irrelevant). Jim's display of that same trait stems from critical negation and destruction, and therefore has less merit.
I don't see the creativity. Nothing about Indigo Prophecy or Heavy Rain shows any evidence of intention. They are just the result of regurgitating random segments of other people's work at a canvas hoping it sticks not knowing why you are doing it.

I fail to see why you want to shoe-horn Jim into the discussion when:
a) Your claim that he has no creativity is discounted by the 100+ videos he's posted on this site alone, without even considering his much, much larger body of work.
b) Your argument of calling out hypocrisy would only make sense if Jim's was an isolated opinion, which it isn't. There are a lot of people who question Cage's abilities and his lack of self-awareness.
c) Coming out with such an unfounded claim only serves to further discredit your opinion.

While I do think David Cage is incapable of creativity, I'm not saying there is nothing to praise in Quantic Dreams' games. A lot of people work on these games and some of those people manage to inject their own energy into them. This doesn't mean that the writing isn't terrible, the characters aren't rendered like homonculi or that it's possible to make any sense out of these schizophrenic narratives. When David Cage gets up on stage to spout his delusional, borderline harmful insights into what makes a good game, it's difficult to hear him say games need more mature stories and more realistic looking characters when his own work looks like the result of a 6 year old's Summer homework. It's hard to see him do that while he continues to gain attention and influence and not come out and declare that the emperor has no clothes.
 

Zen Bard

Eats, Shoots and Leaves
Sep 16, 2012
704
0
0
Preacher zer0 said:
Block Jim on twitter... that's a paddlin'

Tell Jim you're gonna "fuck him up" for dissing someone on Twitter... that's a paddlin'
Paddlin' without a canoe? You better believe that's a paddlin'...

On topic (tangentially), Jim did a piece a little awhile ago about how the gaming tech is only as good as the game it supports. Cage's attitude seems to be directly symptomatic of that conceit.

"Sure our game is boring and lifeless with all the soul of an American teen pop-star. But check out how cooooool it looks."

This is gaming industry wide and it's getting worse. So I thank Jim for his piece.

And thank GOD...for Jim.
 

s_h_a_d_o

Mr Propellerhead
Jun 15, 2010
134
0
0
JudgeGame said:
I don't see the creativity. Nothing about Indigo Prophecy or Heavy Rain shows any evidence of intention. They are just the result of regurgitating random segments of other people's work at a canvas hoping it sticks not knowing why you are doing it.
Your myopia is not the issue, and I don't equate creativity with innovation.

I fail to see why you want to shoe-horn Jim into the discussion when:
a) Your claim that he has no creativity is discounted by the 100+ videos he's posted on this site alone, without even considering his much, much larger body of work.
b) Your argument of calling out hypocrisy would only make sense if Jim's was an isolated opinion, which it isn't. There are a lot of people who question Cage's abilities and his lack of self-awareness.
c) Coming out with such an unfounded claim only serves to further discredit your opinion.
I did not state Jim wasn't capable of creativity, only that imho he doesn't show much talent in that regard, and thereby his own stance seems more pretentious than the one he rails against.

While I do think David Cage is incapable of creativity, I'm not saying there is nothing to praise in Quantic Dreams' games. A lot of people work on these games and some of those people manage to inject their own energy into them. This doesn't mean that the writing isn't terrible, the characters aren't rendered like homonculi or that it's possible to make any sense out of these schizophrenic narratives. When David Cage gets up on stage to spout his delusional, borderline harmful insights into what makes a good game, it's difficult to hear him say games need more mature stories and more realistic looking characters when his own work looks like the result of a 6 year old's Summer homework. It's hard to see him do that while he continues to gain attention and influence and not come out and declare that the emperor has no clothes.
Once again, you're putting words in my mouth. I don't argue in support of Cage's proselytising, but rather that he at least takes an approach that strives to advance creativity, in contrast to Jim's approach which is to mock and denigrate in a non-constructive manner.
 

JudgeGame

New member
Jan 2, 2013
437
0
0
s_h_a_d_o said:
JudgeGame said:
I don't see the creativity. Nothing about Indigo Prophecy or Heavy Rain shows any evidence of intention. They are just the result of regurgitating random segments of other people's work at a canvas hoping it sticks not knowing why you are doing it.
Your myopia is not the issue, and I don't equate creativity with innovation.

I fail to see why you want to shoe-horn Jim into the discussion when:
a) Your claim that he has no creativity is discounted by the 100+ videos he's posted on this site alone, without even considering his much, much larger body of work.
b) Your argument of calling out hypocrisy would only make sense if Jim's was an isolated opinion, which it isn't. There are a lot of people who question Cage's abilities and his lack of self-awareness.
c) Coming out with such an unfounded claim only serves to further discredit your opinion.
I did not state Jim wasn't capable of creativity, only that imho he doesn't show much talent in that regard, and thereby his own stance seems more pretentious than the one he rails against.

While I do think David Cage is incapable of creativity, I'm not saying there is nothing to praise in Quantic Dreams' games. A lot of people work on these games and some of those people manage to inject their own energy into them. This doesn't mean that the writing isn't terrible, the characters aren't rendered like homonculi or that it's possible to make any sense out of these schizophrenic narratives. When David Cage gets up on stage to spout his delusional, borderline harmful insights into what makes a good game, it's difficult to hear him say games need more mature stories and more realistic looking characters when his own work looks like the result of a 6 year old's Summer homework. It's hard to see him do that while he continues to gain attention and influence and not come out and declare that the emperor has no clothes.
Once again, you're putting words in my mouth. I don't argue in support of Cage's proselytising, but rather that he at least takes an approach that strives to advance creativity, in contrast to Jim's approach which is to mock and denigrate in a non-constructive manner.
I don't think you kmow enough about Jim Sterling to make that claim with any kind of legitimacy. If you did, you probably wouldn't want to. On another note, Jim's video had plenty of perfectly constructive criticism. It is hidden under a thin layer of sarcasm but it is there if you want to listen to it.
 

Osmadiel

New member
Mar 20, 2011
3
0
0
I would argue that Team Bondi got alot closer to the goal with their facial capture tech in L.A Noire.
I played Heavy Rain and enjoyed it, but I feel a certain dislike for David Cage because of the way he speaks in interviews
and press conferences. he comes off as extremely arrogant and sees himself as a visionary, he actively dismisses other game genres and games developers as meaningless and violent and speaks as though his games are the inevitable future of all video games, as if the only way to express anything valuable is through the language of film. I think there is room in the world for his games but I would like to see him give some more credit to his team of artists, and put a bit more "game" into his games.