Jimquisition: Fight in the Name of Childishness

Beardly

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I think that anyone who goes on Fox News as a counterpoint to them should be accompanied by a large black man whose only job is to tell the pundits to stop interrupting his client and look menacing.
 

TwistedEllipses

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I could explain why I disagree, but according to you all I need to do is to shout abuse at you until you concede...
 

Jimothy Sterling

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Personally, and this works a million times better in real life, I prefer to simply ramp up the smug.

I am, by my very nature, an insufferable git. I can make anybody foam at the mouth whilst not appearing childish or stupid to anyone else watching. It's easy, you just stick to very well vocalised arguments and test your argumental opponents switches. You'll eventually find something that smacks them the wrong way. Making them retaliate in a fit of anger. But you wont look like an idiot yourself. Being forceful and hammering your point across in a very precise and quick witted manner isn't childish and is the only way you can win an argument were people aren't observing the intricacies of formal debate.

Christopher Hitchens is a bona-fide master of this art.
 

II2

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I've warmed up to the Jimquisition since it started. I find the "schtick" abrasive to the point where I, sometimes, want to smack sterling in his flapping gob while simultaneously wanting to give him kudos for making a solid point, but I ultimately think the merits 'outweigh' the crass delivery...

Talk about your "backhanded compliments"... *drumroll*

... I'll stop...

______________

On this episode's topic, I kinda see an apt parallel between this and middle/highschool bullying. Often, the victim, targeted for being perhaps more shy and bright, will try and 'aloof' their way to victory and some can, with a deliberately thick skin, but outside of a personal victory of character, it doesn't really teach the bullies a lesson or stop them from proceeding to harass the next poor sod.

The people Jim points out, although not in the halls of highschool hell, are still the conversational equivalent of bullies and generally the best (if technically inappropriate) way to deal with a bully is to give them a memorable smack down they'll make them think twice before talking shit and picking on people. You can't reason with these people and they only ever stop to consider their actions after they're personally attacked themselves.

I think the appropriate roles have already been drawn. I think the developers and industry professionals SHOULD remain intelligent and calm and represent the persevering-logically-minded front, because that reflects what the industry's image wants to be... The gaming COMMUNITY, on the other hand already has both a poor image (that nobody's ready to reconsider) and NUMBERS. These internet savvy grassroots defenders are ideally suited to ganging up on media bullies and administering a heavy handed cyber smack down to unfounded, unthinking detractors.

I don't like that people act like this to each other, but we all have to plan and play around the cards we're given and sometimes the best cure for a bully isn't a rational discussion, but a punch in the nose.
 

RobfromtheGulag

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There needs to be a searchlight that goes up or something so we know when to act.

OT: Fox is a joke, people that take stock in Fox's spin are not doing balanced research. I have older friends that watch Fox, and the majority of them are aware of the spin. Especially when I point it out for them.
 

mjc0961

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Nov 30, 2009
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I love that ending, if only because I wish I could say similar things to people who feel the need to come in here and whine every week when they should just not watch in the first place.

vxicepickxv said:
chstens said:
Holy shit, he's right. At least in the US, people acting like children to defend their points over here gets laughed at in the media.
Did you actually see that debate? It wasn't so much a debate as it was a man who was right being shouted at for the whole thing.
Yeah, that was pretty much it. The only remotely good thing he got out of it was getting Cooper Lawrence to admit she'd never played the game, but it only confirmed what most of us already suspected and to the people who watch Fox News and agree, they don't care if she played or not anyway.
 

Jimothy Sterling

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Jim has once again proven how much of a fucking idiot he is. You know what would work a hell of a lot better then acting like a spoiled five year old child like Jim suggests? Ignoring the fuckers. The only reason that the anti gaming lobbies get so much press is because of gamers complaining about them and even then they dont do anything.

Lets look at the mass effect incident. Despite everything that happened around it and the fox news segment there was absolutely no effect on the games sales at all. All of those user reviews on her book would also not do anything at all to convince anybody not to buy the book if they took two seconds to read them. Tell me would you not buy a game because a reviewer said the company likes to suck donkey balls. No you would ignore that persons opinion because they are an idiot and have nothing valid to say.


I really dont see how people give a shit what somebody on fox news thinks of them. What happens on those stations have absolutely no effect at all on gaming as a whole. MW2 got a massive amount of air time because of the airport level and then went on to be the best selling game of all time. Duke Nukem got a ton of bad press and even then still went on to sell fairly decently. The game didnt fail because of the bad press it failed because so many gamers disliked it.


One last thing I should mention was the supreme court case. If Jim thinks that the approach the big game companies are taking against anti-gaming lobbies is not working then why did the supreme court side in our favour. The reason is because the supreme court did not listen to the loudest voice, they instead listen to the logical one. Which once again proves that being the loudest douchbag you can is not effective.


TLDR: People need to learn that the anti-gaming crowd is not actually having any effect on the industry at all. The only reason they are getting so much attention is because we are giving it to them. All you have to do is simply ignore the fuckers and they will loose what little power the had.
 

Jennacide

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It's a grim statement that this is the most insightful video he's posted yet. But this is also old news to me, as I've been of the belief that stupidity wins over intellectualism when shows like Jersery Shore have higher ratings than Breaking Bad. It doesn't just work for games, it works for everything.
SgtFoley said:
Jim has once again proven how much of a fucking idiot he is. You know what would work a hell of a lot better then acting like a spoiled five year old child like Jim suggests? Ignoring the fuckers. The only reason that the anti gaming lobbies get so much press is because of gamers complaining about them and even then they dont do anything.

Lets look at the mass effect incident. Despite everything that happened around it and the fox news segment there was absolutely no effect on the games sales at all. All of those user reviews on her book would also not do anything at all to convince anybody not to buy the book if they took two seconds to read them. Tell me would you not buy a game because a reviewer said the company likes to suck donkey balls. No you would ignore that persons opinion because they are an idiot and have nothing valid to say.
Hi. Would you like your dunce cap now, or later? The anti-gaming lobby gets attention for the EXACT reasons he espoused. It gets attention from the right wing radicals and religious fanatics because it's aimed directly at them. And much like with the Fox News bit on Mass Effect, it looked like THEY WON to that audience, despite all of Keighley's defense. Perception has an amazing impact on swaying people. Even if they were outright shown they were wrong, as long as they hold their heads high, the viewer will percieve they still won the arguement.

As for using sales figures of the game, really? Are you actually going to not realize your own logical fallacy there? It was never intended to stop sales, it was intended to make games look bad. Which it succeeded at, at the time. The VERY SAME SHIT is going on right now with the Oslo massacre. Some psycho, who was already a psychopath I might at, tried pointing the blame on games and it worked. Because the people that want to hate on games take any ammo they get. Now, for the time being, games are being pulled from shelves in Europe, and other countries are starting to reevaluate their laws. Don't believe me? Look at the bottom of this page, as of this writing, this thread is the most commented on the site: Oslo Murders Lead to Calls For Game Bans in Australia [http://www.escapistmagazine.com/news/view/111895-Oslo-Murders-Lead-to-Calls-For-Game-Bans-in-Australia]

The idoits that are trying to rally against games are simply trying to styme their sales, they're trying to get them banned or impose defacto censorship. A trick that has worked in the past, look at the Hot Coffee scandal. Or the ESRB violence crackdown from a few years ago on Fallout 3 and Dark Sector. (Not even sure what set that one off, as they've peeled that back)

Before I go much further, lemme just bring up a simple point on the original basis of your argument: Ignore them. How has that worked in your life? Or in history? I don't know about your life, but I know ignoring things in history has not worked too well.
 

Arcane Azmadi

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Don't know about "childish" as such, but I HAVE repeatedly been frustrated at the way that, every time some new retarded controversy comes up over a harmless triviality in a game, the developers never have the balls to stand up and say "you're being fucking stupid, you don't have a leg to stand on, we don't care what morons like you think and if you don't like it you can shove it up your ass." And no I'm not paraphrasing there, I really think their official response should include the swearing.

Come to think of it, I've often wished they'd take the same approach to whiny, eternally-unsatisfied fans.
 

xXAsherahXx

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When talking to Fox news specifically, I totally agree, they like shouting matches. Other places? I'm not entirely sure. America likes a good shouting match, but we also enjoy a decent debate with some cordiality.

Off topic, I do like that Jim addressed the escapist directly about their snooty-ness, because a lot of people here act like this is the forum for the Tony awards.

Sometimes we have to step down to a childish level, but only in a childish setting, it's all about adapting. If gamers went on the Daily Show, things would be much different. Civilized conversations only happen in civilized places, it's that simple.
 

Jimothy Sterling

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Ryu890 said:
Hmm...if we need our own Jack Thompson.....
We do not need our own Jack Thompson.

Jack Thompson self destructed in a big spectacle and the Florida Legal System basically called him a no good liar when they stripped him of his law license.

He is now utterly irrelevant.
 

Hugga_Bear

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If you're dealing with Fox? Yeah, be as immature as you like, the average intelligence of their newscasters is so low you could spend the entire conversation literally talking with your arse on the screen and they probably wouldn't cotton on.

Otherwise? No. Some groups are smart enough to turn it around and they're loyal fans blind enough to follow suite. If you start to descend to their level then they may well call you out for being childish, immature, bullying and so on while they do it themselves, point out the hypocrisy and meet the age old "Who...me?!" face.

So what I'm saying is pick your angle with care, different fights require different tactics, some can be won with brute force, some require finesse and some need to be completely ignored and left to rot though they're very few despite this being the game industry's favourite approach.

Remember, not every group is as flat out idiotic as Fox News' little teams.
 

Jimothy Sterling

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Arcane Azmadi said:
Don't know about "childish" as such, but I HAVE repeatedly been frustrated at the way that, every time some new retarded controversy comes up over a harmless triviality in a game, the developers never have the balls to stand up and say "you're being fucking stupid, you don't have a leg to stand on, we don't care what morons like you think and if you don't like it you can shove it up your ass." And no I'm not paraphrasing there, I really think their official response should include the swearing.

Come to think of it, I've often wished they'd take the same approach to whiny, eternally-unsatisfied fans.
Swearing at fans and saying that they don't care what they think can do nothing but backfire.

But I would love if Rockstar came out and said

"Listen here you two bit hacks, we make games for adults and sometimes these games will include violence, sex and/or swearing. If you don't like it you're welcome to not play them. But if you're going to stand here complaining about how our violent games are bringing some new low in entertainment while not saying anything about Tarantino or others; we invite you to go fuck yourself with a rusty pair of pliers. We'll even put an animation of that happening in the next Manhunt if you need assistance.

P.S. The next asshole who claims that there is rape in GTA will be hearing from our lawyers."
 

Jimothy Sterling

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Jennacide said:
It's a grim statement that this is the most insightful video he's posted yet. But this is also old news to me, as I've been of the belief that stupidity wins over intellectualism when shows like Jersery Shore have higher ratings than Breaking Bad. It doesn't just work for games, it works for everything.
I watched Toddlers and Tiaras for the first time last night, not because I like kiddie beauty pageants but because watching the show had all the appeal of a gruesome train wreck. I couldn't look away. Same with some other trashy shows. So yeah even if you think they are all losers or whatever the shows still have some appeal.
 

Something Amyss

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Dec 3, 2008
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I'm not sure the point we should draw from this is that childish works. Maybe "not being a doormat" would work, too.

It's possible to be assertive without being a prat.

The problem is, our "side" of the Sexbox "debate" was neither.
 

Simeon Ivanov

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Games have gotten too serious nowadays ...(Ironically, Serious Sam is really funny and immature) What ever happen to the silliness in games? Why does everything need to be dark and gritty and mature ...
 

daitsdudes

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What the hell? No, No I will not act like a child just to make a point, why would i undermine and industry I care a lot about just to win a debate against people whose opinions won't change due to their preconceived notions about it. This is the inherent problem with all debates each side is more concerned with winning than causing any real change *cough* debt ceiling *cough*
Instead of arguing back and forth the games industry should try to open a dialogue with their opponents with hopes of mutual acceptance as the final outcome.