Jimquisition: Fight in the Name of Childishness

Jimothy Sterling

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Apr 18, 2011
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I... actually agree to an extent. On fox news you need to shout and swing your dick about and trying to be ultra reasonable is not the right aprouch, he should have talked over THEM a little and drawn attention to the retarded nature of the debate or talked about the whole aprouch of the network in the debate drawing attention to the lack of attention he was getting and how they are going to raid-road him no matter how much or little he speaks. When in a shouting match games sometimes need to shout a little.

But on almost every other occasion the aprouch of being reasonable does seem to work as long was we are reasonable AND Visible and Effective. What if he had just flown off the handle? Fox would have played the footage back for weeks trying to dismantle him for doing waht the other guests had done becuase he was 'wrong'. If you act like an adult it can show up the sham that mis taking place around you.The on air discusson was absurd and there was no real way to 'win' in that situation. The victory came later, they were burried by their own words.

There was no groundswell against mass effect inspired by his 'poor' performace on air. No one really though Mass Effect was a sex simulator. The network was openly macked for its frankly brainless coverage and has been seemingly reluctant to negatively report on games since due to the fact that it is basically sticking its proveribal dick in the internet beehive.

Being timid is no way to win i agree, the best things games can do is have a robust lobby and be able to attck outlets for slanderous comments. Someone openly lying about games on air should fill the networks with pant-wetting fear of the wrath of the publishers.
 

feauxx

Commandah
Sep 7, 2010
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gold star for jim! thank god indeed.

i hereby cast my vote for jim to be our jack thompson.
 

Vonnis

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Feb 18, 2011
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It's depressing how right Jim is. His point doesn't just hold up for games, but for everything. People don't want to hear reason. They have already formed their opinion, or rather they've already had it spoonfed to them. Trying to reason with them is pointless; all too often the only way to get results without resorting to violence is to take the piss on them until they start to cry.
 

jcg

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Jul 14, 2009
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pyro42 said:
wow i could not disagree with this video more, look what Jim is suggesting is a short term solution at best, and a complete demonstration of the industry at worst. I am a Christian, and I don't think video games are the devil. but what we are dealing with is an older generation that has not come to terms with the industry. This happened to movies and it will happen to what ever comes next. If we as gamers act in the way that Jim suggests then video games "time of troubles"(if you will excuse a D&D reference) will be even longer, now i respect Jim and i think he has had some good points, but i have to disagree with him on this one. Sorry Jim:-(
Fox "news" and the bible thumping christians won't be convinced anyway, so why not use them to vent you fustration. Not to insult, but how can you agrue with someone that uses the argument: "The sky wizard told me so". They will flat out refuse clear facts and arguments just to keep their point of view. The only way to "win" is taking a grade /b/ troll and see how long it takes for a vein to pop in their brain.
 

Clonekiller

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Dec 7, 2010
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Damn straight! When someone disagrees with you on a controversy, do you use facts and argue the point? Hell no! Go all out and launch personal attacks. However, since review bombing only works for those with published books, pull out the other weapons in the gamer arsenal. Flood their mail accounts with hate mail, crash any websites they might have, and hack their mail and social accounts, publishing their personal information on the web. That way, if anyone seeks to question us, they might think twice before prodding the gamers. Cause that's what you do in a free democratic republic. You intimidate or pummel your opposition into submission.

(It's called sarcasm Jack)
 

Royas

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Apr 25, 2008
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The current situation regarding the game industry and their lack of reaction to critics reminds me a little of the state of tabletop RPG's such as Dungeons and Dragons in the 80's. At that time, D&D was getting a bad rap as a game about Satanism and witchcraft, and that those who played it were being led down a path to hell, paved with the blood of babies and the like. Much of this was because of the efforts of a very few people, especially one Pat Pulling (now deceased), who made it her personal goal to destroy RPG's. She didn't do this with reasoned debate, she did this with lies and deceit, by poisoning the well with police and educators with so-called "expert" papers regarding the subject. In short, childishness.

Scary part is, she nearly succeeded in some ways. Many authorities did develop concerns regarding RPG's, due in no small part to her efforts. And TSR during the entire time this was happening did nothing. They had a policy of ignoring the criticism, I guess under the theory guidance counselors have that the bully will go away if you ignore them. Much like the gaming industry is doing today, and I think that's a big mistake on their part. They could, and should, be leading the efforts to educate the public on what gaming really is all about. It's their business, for crying out loud, what the hell are they waiting for? Ignoring Pulling didn't make her go away, it was the efforts of fans and independents that disarmed her, and only her death made her actually stop.

What made her efforts ineffectual in the long run wasn't childish diatribes against her, but rather reasoned efforts to actually educate authorities and the public in the truth. Mike Stackpole helped a lot with The Pulling Report, a long and well researched counter to anti-gaming hysteria.

Childish railing at the enemy can get results in the short term. As Jim said, people notice that kind of behavior, it attracts attention and causes a spectacle. But in the long run, tactics like that will fail if they aren't backed up by reason and debate. You act like a screaming idiot long enough, eventually people are going to stop being amused by you, and will take steps to ignore you, or shut you up (such as what happened to Jack Thompson, the poster child for childish insanity in public). They will notice the screaming child, but they will remember the calm statesman long after that child is gone from their minds forever.
 

gamegod25

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Jul 10, 2008
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He's right about one thing, I disagree with him. Haters are gonna hate, as they say, and there will always be niche religious and conservative groups that will portray games as evil, it's possible to argue and call them out on their bull**** without sinking to their level. Most of the idiocy is better off ignored (especially people like Fox and JT) because like a bratty child all they really want is attention. And anyone who would listen to them and actually take them seriously are just as stupid and stubborn and nothing can be done to change it. Now when they try to impose unconstitutional laws then of course we should fight back, but acting just as stupid and immature isn't going to help.

You don't really think that because her book was trolled that so called "expert" actually learned her lesson do you? If she was so unprofessional as to speak out against something she had barely seen before, then I highly doubt any amount of gamer rage is going to change that. If Jeff had been just as dumb and loud as the rest of the people on the show it wouldn't have made a lick of difference, except for giving them more ammo to use against gamers.

I'm all for calling people out for the ignorant douchebags they are, but it defeats the purpose if we stoop to their level in the process. You may be able to get a whiny brat to shut up by screaming back in their face, but you'll just end up embarrassing yourself to everyone else in the store.
 

ripdajacker

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Oct 25, 2009
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I sure am glad I don't live in a country where Fox News is considered being nothing more than a biased load of bad journalism. A great topic Jim, nonetheless.

A sequence of arguments like: A murders B -> A plays GTA -> In GTA you can kill people. -> A murdered B because of GTA. That's just bullshit. Even if the person committing the murder got the idea from GTA, or the game somehow led him to the act of committing murder, it is still not the games fault. To quote Chris Rock: Whatever happened to crazy?

If a person cannot distinguish gameplay from reality then that person is mentally ill and should get help. If he does not get help it is not Rockstars fault, nor is it Hollywoods fault. It is more likely parental neglect and/or teachers/guardians of some sort failing to recognize anti-social behavior.

I think it's best to ignore mediums like Fox News. They obviously have a extremely biased debate, that wouldn't catch on outside the US. I blame the school system for producing such ignorant retards.
 

Siege_TF

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May 9, 2010
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The people who are insisting that we should always take the high road without exception don't realize that equal and opposite reaction isn't just theroy, it's the law, and anyone trying to argue with idiots intelligently is in violation of that law.
 
Dec 27, 2010
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Yeah, maybe being childish will go convince the masses of retards who listen to Fox News that games aren't the spawn of the devil, but in the process you'll lose your dignity and the respect of anyone with something between their ears. Here's an idea; maybe we leave the monkeys to throw their faeces while we go on with doing what we want.
 

Noswad

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Mar 21, 2011
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Maybe there's definitely room for immature antics, they are effective, but once we've shouted down the critics we still have to act responsibly again. Anyway it's probably going to require a more mixed approach, immature for the idiots at fox news and the daily mail and a more mature approach for anyone willing to debate the issue.

On one on one arguments in real life the facts will always win there is no audience no judges, it is a pure contest to flood your opponents mind with doubt and victory is awarded to the one who walks away still confident they are right. I personally have managed to convince people who used to think games were nothing but immature toys, that even if they are not for them, there is nothing inherently wrong with them displaying mature content.

Remember scream like an idiot at a monkey and it may shut up but scream at someone talking in a cinema and you'll just get thrown out.
 

farscythe

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Dec 8, 2010
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Joe McGahan said:
It's effective alright, but I don't think I could live in a world where we all sink to Fox News level.
eh tbh...i think its to late for that ever see politicians rise above fox news level ?
 

pyro42

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Aug 22, 2009
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jcg said:
pyro42 said:
wow i could not disagree with this video more, look what Jim is suggesting is a short term solution at best, and a complete demonstration of the industry at worst. I am a Christian, and I don't think video games are the devil. but what we are dealing with is an older generation that has not come to terms with the industry. This happened to movies and it will happen to what ever comes next. If we as gamers act in the way that Jim suggests then video games "time of troubles"(if you will excuse a D&D reference) will be even longer, now i respect Jim and i think he has had some good points, but i have to disagree with him on this one. Sorry Jim:-(
Fox "news" and the bible thumping christians won't be convinced anyway, so why not use them to vent you fustration. Not to insult, but how can you agrue with someone that uses the argument: "The sky wizard told me so". They will flat out refuse clear facts and arguments just to keep their point of view. The only way to "win" is taking a grade /b/ troll and see how long it takes for a vein to pop in their brain.
but that's the thing, there is no way to win, well not now at lest. Look like i said I'm not only a Christian but a pastor, a youth pastor that is, and i have had to work with these people that takes every thing that Fox New says for gospel truth. though it is fun to have ask them to back up there agreement with scripture. But here is the thing we don't have to beat them now, most of these people are over the age of 50 and lets face it old people die, we will out last them, the problem is how will we be remembered by those who replace them. if we sink to there level the answer is not well.
 

YouEatLard

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Jun 20, 2010
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Eh... kinda?

Ok, going on Fox was a bad idea. Going on Fox and trying to be an adult was a bad idea. Going on Fox, trying to be an adult and not expecting what happened, was a dumb idea. That was our bad and dude should have been or prepared. He was ready for CNN, NBC, or any other channel, but not fox. Fox is a channel that requires idiocy to fight idiocy.

In general.... We need to be careful. To much like this will get us put in the boat with hacker oganizations.

However.... You do have a point.
 

winter2

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Oct 10, 2009
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Hurrmmm...... I believe Jimbo is on to something here. Clearly reason is not working with the unreasonable and maybe the time is right to fight fire with fire.

We can only hope that the Democratic party would feel the same way and give the republicans back what they are dishing out.
 

SonOfVoorhees

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Aug 3, 2011
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Games will be fine. Movies went through the same issue in the 80s and earlier. When a medium grows u people, who dont even have a clue about the games, freak out. Like with the Masseffect thing...people that moaned never played it....they should be brought up on this fact, and not anything else. Best way to screw up a persons intigrity is to bring facts that they have no research or played the game they are insulting.

Now days games are rated for kids, teens or adults. There is no issues. Why ***** if an 18 cert game is violent? Erm....its rated 18, kids cant buy it. (Ok they can, but like us as kids you can find a way) but the law is doing all it can to rate things. The rest is up to the parents. Also the fact is kids will get hold of bad stuff, as 13 i would see horror movies and find porn mags dumped near railroad tracks. You can only protect kids so much. Like swearing is a big no-no on tv, but we all learned it from friends in the playground.