Did you actually see that debate? It wasn't so much a debate as it was a man who was right being shouted at for the whole thing.chstens said:
Jimquisition: Fight in the Name of Childishness
- Thread starter Jimothy Sterling
- Start date
I loved this video! It made a point too.
Fox News seems like the place that immaturity is needed to win.
On shows like (my most watched and most loved news channel. Not to say that there aren't others.) BBC News, they do occasionally read out letters from the public, it is a great and formal approach to a situation taht may have caused some outrage.
I'd go as far as to say a website like 4chan (as immature and stupid as the people on there generally are) has done this well, they DDoS'd PayPal, and well... It worked.
I'm not encouraging your point there, Jim, but I'd say it will sometimes work.
Fox News seems like the place that immaturity is needed to win.
On shows like (my most watched and most loved news channel. Not to say that there aren't others.) BBC News, they do occasionally read out letters from the public, it is a great and formal approach to a situation taht may have caused some outrage.
I'd go as far as to say a website like 4chan (as immature and stupid as the people on there generally are) has done this well, they DDoS'd PayPal, and well... It worked.
I'm not encouraging your point there, Jim, but I'd say it will sometimes work.
True - screaming your message, ignoring counter arguments, throwing logic in the sinkhole will ensure that you never lose. But you would have failed yourself. Winning in the manner you have described would be a pyrrhic victory - you might be able to win a few shouting matches, but you'd be encouraging childish behaviour and rank stupidity within the gamer community. And that's not a price I'm willing to pay.
Also, we don't NEED to defeat these people. They've lost. FoxNews and the Sun and the Daily Mirror can spout all the trashy, misinformed, ultra-right-wing nonsense they want, and it won't affect anything. In the 50's, they tried to ban Rock'n'Roll. Didn't work. In the 70's they tried to ban violent films. Didn't work. In the 80's, it was heavy metal that was apparently "leading America right to Satan's doorstep". Didn't work. And in the 90's, it was violent television and "satanic cults" like "Dungeons & Dragons" that they tried to ban. Again.... didn't work.
Video games are here to stay. Indefinitely. Unless Kim Jong Ill's son becomes president of America, you don't have to be worried about games being banned.
And as the FoxNews watching, miserable super-conservatives and nanny-state super-liberals (video game hate comes from both sides) die off (and they will), video games will become accepted. Hell, we are approaching the time where we will have people in their mid-30s who have played video games their ENTIRE LIFE.
There's no need to resort to being childish - because the stakes aren't high enough. FoxNews, for all its nonsensical drivel and alarmist propaganda, is helpless to stop video games. Want to know how I know this? Fox licenses out its IPs to developers to make video games. They're not going to ban it, as long as they can make a profit off of it.
Also, we don't NEED to defeat these people. They've lost. FoxNews and the Sun and the Daily Mirror can spout all the trashy, misinformed, ultra-right-wing nonsense they want, and it won't affect anything. In the 50's, they tried to ban Rock'n'Roll. Didn't work. In the 70's they tried to ban violent films. Didn't work. In the 80's, it was heavy metal that was apparently "leading America right to Satan's doorstep". Didn't work. And in the 90's, it was violent television and "satanic cults" like "Dungeons & Dragons" that they tried to ban. Again.... didn't work.
Video games are here to stay. Indefinitely. Unless Kim Jong Ill's son becomes president of America, you don't have to be worried about games being banned.
And as the FoxNews watching, miserable super-conservatives and nanny-state super-liberals (video game hate comes from both sides) die off (and they will), video games will become accepted. Hell, we are approaching the time where we will have people in their mid-30s who have played video games their ENTIRE LIFE.
There's no need to resort to being childish - because the stakes aren't high enough. FoxNews, for all its nonsensical drivel and alarmist propaganda, is helpless to stop video games. Want to know how I know this? Fox licenses out its IPs to developers to make video games. They're not going to ban it, as long as they can make a profit off of it.
Oh gawd, there is consensus between Jim and the front page on the Escapist! This has to be a sign of the end of days or something. It has been an very hot summer...... oh no, winter is coming!
Today I was ready to pause the video so I could read the name of the episode. Today he didn't name the episode.
You win this one Mr.Sterling.
You win this one Mr.Sterling.
well... I don' think either way is "right"... I think we need to do a "good cop, and bad cop" thing to them "anti-gamers"... I think we should slap them in the face with a baseball bat, like hacking their websites, spam-bomb run, angry/hate mail flood, then... after they had their mental/emotional meltdown, we will then walk up to them with our best suit dressers, patting them on their back, and say "See... if only you had listened to us when we weren't hostel..."
Isn't that always the problem with being the bigger man? Yes AT FIRST it seems like you are just unable to defend yourself and stooping to childish levels is very tempting. Especially if their arguments have more holes in them than swiss cheese.
But if you just keep it up and put out decent results people will eventually realize the childish naysayers are little more than an angry hobo shouting at a building.
But if you just keep it up and put out decent results people will eventually realize the childish naysayers are little more than an angry hobo shouting at a building.
It's sort of just mob justice. It bypasses all considerations for what is the "just" and "fair" way to approach a problem so as to ensure results. It's effective, but not preferred. It lacks definite moral high ground and the guarantee that the punishment scales with the crime.
With Jim's example of the Mass Effect debate on Fox, it would seem like Fox gets away almost undamaged compared to their appointed "expert". They basically used her to advance a point of view the show was taking before the debate even started. While she is guilty of being a willing participant of this scheme, she definitely takes the brunt of the mob backlash. Hopefully, the outcome is that such events occur less often as other potential speakers see the impact of playing "expert" for organizations looking for a mouth to voice its opinions.
With Jim's example of the Mass Effect debate on Fox, it would seem like Fox gets away almost undamaged compared to their appointed "expert". They basically used her to advance a point of view the show was taking before the debate even started. While she is guilty of being a willing participant of this scheme, she definitely takes the brunt of the mob backlash. Hopefully, the outcome is that such events occur less often as other potential speakers see the impact of playing "expert" for organizations looking for a mouth to voice its opinions.
NNnnnn.... Yeah, but... B-
All right, seriously... At my worst, I think maybe there should be room for both the high road and the low road, yeah? It's not like Noam Chomsky ceases to exist for the presence of Michael Moore, or George Will vanishes in a puff of smoke because of Andrew Breitbart, or... Whatever batshit insane person in a suit who supports neglecting childhood immunizations disappears because of Jenny McCarthy... (Sorry, came up empty there...)
And I think that you could as easily say the real point is "Don't go on 'news shows', especially Fox News, to support the argument they're planning to Straw Man." If we really want to hurt Fox News' credibility, we should just start asking people of good conscience to refuse to go on their shows at all because they make such a mockery of the word "news" that you can barely accept the word "fox" at face value. Oh, they'd rail about how the liberal establishment refused to face them for a while, but I think eventually the lack of credibility might start to be apparent when they started saying, "And now, for the pro-videogame side, here's Ted, formerly of camera 'B', who played Tetris once."
I don't have an easy answer, but in all arenas and all topics of conversation, we really have something to lose if being right and factually correct stops being as important as being flashy and loud. The lesson goes all the way back to the schoolyard, guys- just like there's always someone bigger and meaner waiting to push you down, there's also always someone louder and flashier. Probably arguing for the virtues of genocide.
All right, seriously... At my worst, I think maybe there should be room for both the high road and the low road, yeah? It's not like Noam Chomsky ceases to exist for the presence of Michael Moore, or George Will vanishes in a puff of smoke because of Andrew Breitbart, or... Whatever batshit insane person in a suit who supports neglecting childhood immunizations disappears because of Jenny McCarthy... (Sorry, came up empty there...)
And I think that you could as easily say the real point is "Don't go on 'news shows', especially Fox News, to support the argument they're planning to Straw Man." If we really want to hurt Fox News' credibility, we should just start asking people of good conscience to refuse to go on their shows at all because they make such a mockery of the word "news" that you can barely accept the word "fox" at face value. Oh, they'd rail about how the liberal establishment refused to face them for a while, but I think eventually the lack of credibility might start to be apparent when they started saying, "And now, for the pro-videogame side, here's Ted, formerly of camera 'B', who played Tetris once."
I don't have an easy answer, but in all arenas and all topics of conversation, we really have something to lose if being right and factually correct stops being as important as being flashy and loud. The lesson goes all the way back to the schoolyard, guys- just like there's always someone bigger and meaner waiting to push you down, there's also always someone louder and flashier. Probably arguing for the virtues of genocide.
This seems like it could be a more numbers wins match, in the debate 4 vs. 1 on a show that the audience already agreed with the 4, even if he did get loud the others could still get louder, and as for the amazon thing that's on vs. thousands. Not saying you don't have valid points being louder then the other guys in the argument is a great way to win but it fails the moment that guy guys of and shows everyone else how big of a douche we are and suddenly they are louder. Pretty much we need both loud active protesters to rush in and win battles, and more thoughtful people to win in the long term.
Hmm.
....
.....
Sigh.
This is a week where pro-gamers need to shut up and let the NRA look insane.
Yes, ultimately it boils down to a madman's access to assault rifles.
But, uncomfortably he is connected with gaming.
He used gaming to train.
This is were gaming must accept some responsibility.
This is not an issue where we can be childish.
No.
No!!
We must have some sober introspection if we are to be taken seriously.
I'm sorry Jim but being the retarded dickhead will not serve us this week. Maybe other weeks where fox news is connecting kindegarden violence with Mortal Kombat but we can only really point out the stupidity of the connection these people make between violence and games when the difference is not so marginal.
This week videogames (COD:MF2) have been connected to a violent shooting. While the videogame has not been shown to influence motive it has been stated to have been instumental.
Yes there is many magnitudes of difference between a person using a firearm and a person playing Call of Duty. Does this suggest that we should not think about our medium and what effect it has on our society?
No it does not.
By no means do I think anything should be censored but a careful consideration of what role videogame violence plays in our society is worthwhile and should not be discounted.
Videogamers playing childish retards cannot help.
What can help is an absolute inundation of organisations who portray gamers as isolated violent weirdos. Inundate them with what you do for a living. Inundate them with what you do for your family. Inundate them with how you had a good time this weekend. Inundate them with how normal a humanbeing you are.
Let them know.
We are normal. And we will be heard.
....
.....
Sigh.
This is a week where pro-gamers need to shut up and let the NRA look insane.
Yes, ultimately it boils down to a madman's access to assault rifles.
But, uncomfortably he is connected with gaming.
He used gaming to train.
This is were gaming must accept some responsibility.
This is not an issue where we can be childish.
No.
No!!
We must have some sober introspection if we are to be taken seriously.
I'm sorry Jim but being the retarded dickhead will not serve us this week. Maybe other weeks where fox news is connecting kindegarden violence with Mortal Kombat but we can only really point out the stupidity of the connection these people make between violence and games when the difference is not so marginal.
This week videogames (COD:MF2) have been connected to a violent shooting. While the videogame has not been shown to influence motive it has been stated to have been instumental.
Yes there is many magnitudes of difference between a person using a firearm and a person playing Call of Duty. Does this suggest that we should not think about our medium and what effect it has on our society?
No it does not.
By no means do I think anything should be censored but a careful consideration of what role videogame violence plays in our society is worthwhile and should not be discounted.
Videogamers playing childish retards cannot help.
What can help is an absolute inundation of organisations who portray gamers as isolated violent weirdos. Inundate them with what you do for a living. Inundate them with what you do for your family. Inundate them with how you had a good time this weekend. Inundate them with how normal a humanbeing you are.
Let them know.
We are normal. And we will be heard.
I think your attitude needs to be situational, of course there are times when it pays to be mature and sensible, but if being childish is more effective then be childish
Completely beside the point I was trying to make, but yes, I have seen the debate, the poor guy didn't stand a chance. At a second glance, I see that my post could use with some better punctuation. What I was trying to say that he's got a point, at least when it coems to Americans, but over here in Norway, while we do enjoy a good shouting on TV every now and then, the person who resorts to shouting and steamrolling on a TV debate gets laughed at in the papers the day after.vxicepickxv said:
I think this commercial sums it up.
Stupid people with an I don't care attitude look like winners. And sad to say, in America we love stupid people. And anyone appearing on Fox News with intent to defend video games is fighting a losing battle. Fox News doesn't care about a fair argument; their slogan should be, "We're right, because we said so."
I remember there was that Kevin guy from G4 on Fox News, and he was supposed to defend gaming on something and they barely let him speak at all. I believe the same thing happened to Geoff.
Fox News should really be taken off the air because all they do is spread lies and slander. The only reason why Fox News hasn't been taken off the air is because there are enough people who love watching the stupid.
Stupid people with an I don't care attitude look like winners. And sad to say, in America we love stupid people. And anyone appearing on Fox News with intent to defend video games is fighting a losing battle. Fox News doesn't care about a fair argument; their slogan should be, "We're right, because we said so."
I remember there was that Kevin guy from G4 on Fox News, and he was supposed to defend gaming on something and they barely let him speak at all. I believe the same thing happened to Geoff.
Fox News should really be taken off the air because all they do is spread lies and slander. The only reason why Fox News hasn't been taken off the air is because there are enough people who love watching the stupid.