Jimquisition: Fight in the Name of Childishness

Clonekiller

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Dec 7, 2010
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Major disagreement here Jim.

Sure, fighting dirty will probably win arguments in the media and with pundits. However, is that what is important? I know from personal experience that the "mature head-burry" approach has won many people over for the games, my mother being one of them. It seems to me that a childish knee-jerk approach might "win" the argument on the TV, but all you'll really end up doing is alienating the losing group, and reinforcing a bad image in the mind of the general public. Now obviously rolling over and playing dead, like EA, doesn't do any good either. But I certainly don't think that we should hack servers, review bomb books, and spam e-mail accounts to make our points. Honestly, who cares what a pundit says? What matters is how the general public views you, and if all they perceive is pointless entertainment, like a pin-ball machine, have we really won anything? Being childish might win an argument or two today, but it's the difference between spending ten years or a hundred seeking acceptance.

Bugerion said:
Revolution the only solution,the old response of an entire nation
revolution the only solution,we have taken all your shit now its time for restetution

I agree Fight fire with fire
Cause the French revolution worked out so well.
 

JPArbiter

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Oct 14, 2010
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fascinating topic and a very effective argument. I have thought that a hybrid of these two strategies should be embraced, creating a fandom wide "good cop/bad cop" game of shouting down the anti gaming crowed, and then enticing them with our Wiiware.
 

HyenaThePirate

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Jan 8, 2009
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So let me get this straight...

The lesson learned here is that if you can't win like an MAN in the real world, then get 100s of your friends to act like children and do immature shit to FORCE people to maybe give in?

Worse, I'm not entirely certain a bunch of punkass gamers posting stupid negative reviews on Amazon for someone's book, negatively affecting their business and livelihood simply for having a difference of opinion is the way we want to go as a society. When did we stop allowing people to think differently from us? It's one thing to defend gaming but we have to be realistic too. I wouldn't really want my 10 year old playing God of War, and people SHOULD be made aware that mature games like this exist. The "mature" gaming issue itself will eventually go away on its own in about another 10 years because OUR generation grew up with games so we understand them on a wider scale. The people like Jack Thompson are from the past generation and they don't understand video games as anything more than TOYS because that's what they were to that generation.

I'm sorry but I'm NEVER going to advocate people rushing out to act like ass-heroes just to force someone else to change their minds. Why? Because it's all great when you're on the side of the ass-heroes, but it sucks bantha poodoo to be on the receiving end. What if they just deploy THEIR ass-anti-heroes to start doing the same thing to your side? I don't really relish the idea of an organized group of disgruntled censorship supporters deciding to go metacritic, etc and rate/reviewing any game with "mature" content as "terrible and garbage" 1 -star, etc... impacting the sales and thus robbing me of a possible sequel. People didn't buy Bully because people made disparaging comments about it when it was a GREAT game. As a result, I don't hold high hopes for Bully 2.

There comes a time when we all have to grow up and act like Men. Or at least Big boy Ponies.
 

Semi-Human

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Nov 16, 2010
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I have to agree. Of course acting immature you have to stop making sense, stop using your brain or stop being right. The problem is that ppl that want to be mature don't get that you don't have to be either factually correct but boring or wrong but persuasive. You can fling shit all you want if you use it to get a factual point across. Groups like Fox news tell ppl there presenting facts so ppl buy in to it and they get away with it because half the time there not called on there bullshit or called on it on such a ineffectual way. Saying stuff like "thats not true" etc. simply isn't gonna cut it. Face it if some one calls your mother a whore would you then respond that your mother has no association with prostitution? of course not.

Bottom line is don't you want to be mature or do you want to get your point across? Because if its the second then you might not want to restrict your arsenal. Saving face but losing a debate is not a victory.
 

badmunky64

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As a gamer who lives with a family who continues to think video games are a "toy" I can assure you that trying to act like a sensible fact driven person never works.

I only get results when I bash film and music. I say "I'm sorry which industry is making more money than film and music combined?"

I may be wrong about the combined part, but fuck it they don't know the difference.
 

Pandaman1911

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Jan 3, 2011
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I agree with you, and think somebody SHOULD stoop to their level. We just need somebody who can do it well.

Also your little dance at the end made me laugh a lot harder than it probably should have.
 

iron skirt

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Oct 24, 2009
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I don't care if we're considerd imature ore mature ore whatever... I like games, some people will be mature and some imature no mather the arguments, so in the end it's all about me playng my games and ignoreing people who have something against it... unless of cours they make me mad in witc chase, imaturity is bliss! ps. can I be a Jimquisitor?
 

Moonlight Butterfly

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Mar 16, 2011
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What we do in Britain is just laugh at anyone who acts overly serious for more than five minutes, It makes us uncomfortable.

Fishmoo.
 

ProjectTrinity

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Apr 29, 2010
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==Alright Everyone Stop!!!==

Plot holes in logic all around. Trying to rationalize anything related to Fox News is never bound to work out too well. The woman in question who had a change of heart could have very easily been swayed by another intelligent person, maybe even another "expert". The trolling on her Amazon book doesn't *have* to lead to her changing her mind. Further more, gamers who are (or at least speak) intelligent do not have to be a result of insecurity. (I don't recall if Jim mentioned that it *had* to be insecurity) Some gamers just rather do things their own way.

Or in my case, I'm very sensitive when it comes to making sure I don't hurt anyone's feelings.
 

Semi-Human

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Clonekiller said:
Cause the French revolution worked out so well.
Yes it did.

HyenaThePirate said:
So let ... boy Ponies.
win like a man? wtf does that even mean? Against large organisations with enormous budgets at there there disposal? But not lets not use the power of numbers because that would offend some BS macho sensitivity about some idiot imposed on you.

Yes ppl have a right to disagree, that doesn't mean they have the right to purposefully lie about something for there own gain. Yes every one has the right to there own opinion just like we have the right to let some one know when that opinion is BS or retarded.

Yeah it sucks to be on the receiving end, thats exactly the point. Which is why ppl like jack Thompson should have thought of that before they started it.

Ppl use things like "act like a man" or "act maturely" as nothing more than baseless accusations when they got nothing good to say, when usually thats e. How is it acting like a man to let some one get away with lies because some idiot questions you masculinity? How are you acting mature when you let some one slander you and damage what you care about just because your more worried about saving face then the truth.
 

Lovesfool

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Jan 28, 2009
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I may disagree, I may think Keighley did a fine job on that incident, but I think this was the best Jimquisition to date!

It had style!
It had personality!
It had humor!
It has sarcasm!
It has soul!
It had funk!
It actually made some sense!

Loved it. Keep that identity and take it all the way! Nice!
 

Thyunda

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May 4, 2009
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ACman said:
Hmm.
....
.....
Sigh.

This is a week where pro-gamers need to shut up and let the NRA look insane.

Yes, ultimately it boils down to a madman's access to assault rifles.

But, uncomfortably he is connected with gaming.

He used gaming to train.

This is were gaming must accept some responsibility.

This is not an issue where we can be childish.

No.

No!!

We must have some sober introspection if we are to be taken seriously.

I'm sorry Jim but being the retarded dickhead will not serve us this week. Maybe other weeks where fox news is connecting kindegarden violence with Mortal Kombat but we can only really point out the stupidity of the connection these people make between violence and games when the difference is not so marginal.

This week videogames (COD:MF2) have been connected to a violent shooting. While the videogame has not been shown to influence motive it has been stated to have been instumental.

Yes there is many magnitudes of difference between a person using a firearm and a person playing Call of Duty. Does this suggest that we should not think about our medium and what effect it has on our society?

No it does not.

By no means do I think anything should be censored but a careful consideration of what role videogame violence plays in our society is worthwhile and should not be discounted.

Videogamers playing childish retards cannot help.

What can help is an absolute inundation of organisations who portray gamers as isolated violent weirdos. Inundate them with what you do for a living. Inundate them with what you do for your family. Inundate them with how you had a good time this weekend. Inundate them with how normal a humanbeing you are.

Let them know.

We are normal. And we will be heard.
Now you're just talking crap. This is exactly the time we need to be vocal. If we sit and be the bigger man, they'll take our silence for defeat. They will leap on us and we won't try to stop them. Being the bigger man is ridiculous. We're fighting an enemy louder, more vocal, and more accessible than we are. When they invite us to a ridicule match, we have to play their game. Don't be afraid to step on a few toes. Show them that not only are we normal, decent people, we also will NOT be stepped on. Being vocal and mocking does not necessarily mean devolving into childish argument.
It is possible to deliver a valid argument in a mocking fashion. I could do it. I've done it plenty of times. I always get results. Quoting facts rarely works, so you only do it when called upon. If you're told videogames make children into murderers, don't cite the number of whatevers involved in whatever, you tell them to prove it. They pull their numbers, you throw their numbers in their face. Those children also went to school. They watched TV. Listened to music. They had two parents. They had one parent. There was an old man on the same estate. Force them to hear that correlation is NOT causation, and with something so widespread as videogames, of course there'll be some kind of connection.
 

Smurf McSmurfington

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Jun 24, 2010
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As much as I hate to admit it, Jim DOES make a fair point here...
And the fact that hes right about the only way to "combat" those idiots is to sink to their level, in order to "convince" the incredibly thick masses truly saddens me... though in all fairness, the sheer stupidity of the average person has always saddened me.
 

NezumiiroKitsune

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Mar 29, 2008
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I don't see how he could have implemented the same mindset, that the Amazon-bombing's followed, in a live television debate defending games or "shouting down" the anti-games lobbyists. I think the two approaches did what they did well and complimented one another.

What would you have had him say to them, when they were espousing fallacy to whip up an audience? All he had was the high ground, supported by fact and reason. If he'd tried to be childish to the childish, it would just invigorate their fervour, and they have much more antagonising bullshit to throw around than we do. He could have been ignorant and flippant, but that would have just pushed the audience towards the more furious and "morally" slanted arguments of the anti-games crowd. Face it, he couldn't have won, and if he had acted childish, he was out-numbered and out-gunned on that front.

It helped our cause that, to who it mattered, he responded reasonably and logically, and then the Amazon-bombings hurt them in the way we can.

So I call fanciful bullshit. Additionally, what was the "supposing the mature only act mature as a facade" in aid of? Some people are just inherently reasonable and mature, and are sick of the assholes of society taking precedent when they speak. You're pulling the similar tact to "Right-Wing Media" in dismissing and discrediting the mature response by being obtuse and creating faux-facts.

If you can however see a way he, and future games spokespeople, can be as obstinate and puerile as the anti-games folk were (and are), that still benefits and represents the games and gaming community, then please, get on that. They win the argument because their argument is scarier, and more compounded with loud-angry "moral-objections". If you just yell, but have no crowd-pleasing substance, you just have them win again.

For now, reasonability, and then immature attacks on the morons, is the best approach.
 

BloodSquirrel

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Jun 23, 2008
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Jack Thompson's approach worked *so* well that he wound up being disbarred and disowned by people on his own side.

Meanwhile, gamers being childish about the Mass Effect "controversy" is the only reason anybody ever hears about it. Everyone else saw it, shrugged, and moved on. It had zero cultural impact except for gamers, whose being butthurt about it has accomplished absolutely nothing.

In fact, what it really shows is how many people really don?t have a choice about the matter- they lack the maturity to be anything but childish in the first place.
 

Keanotix

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Jan 13, 2010
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I wouldn't say not going on the news interview would have been any better, if he hadn't gone on they would have made it much worse by saying 'no comment, shows how wrong they are', but because he went on and appeared to have gotten 2 words in to their 10, they came across as bullies and childish by not giving him his two cents.

Acting childish may appear effective and efficient at getting points across, but its a quickie dirty solution. There would have been many more mature solutions, instead of blasting this woman's book, a few articles in our own journalistic empire and possibly some discussion on forums and boards (like we are doing now) about how little research and logic went into this interview. Possibly an interview with this woman would have given us the very information we got from the flaming. Yes it would have taken longer, but we would no longer be a mob fighting a mob.

Is anything from Extra Credits getting through? The very reason Fox gets to do this is because Gaming and it's audience are seen as immature and childish. All that was done here was proving
Fox and Co. right by spamming this ill-informed woman. Please note that the whole Anonymous Fiasco is basically the same thing on a larger scale, 'Oh, big company make us look stupid, lets respond by attacking them, that show them we smart! Whaddya mean other gamers get hurt doin this? They just noobs that just talky talky.....' and so on.

Oh and EA have NO foothold in terms of maturity. Watch the Extra Credits video "An Open Letter To EA". The rest of my points could be rounded up there.
 

Knusper

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Sep 10, 2010
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Even if I don't entirely agree with it, I think this has been the best Jimquisition yet by mixing a good amount of humour and valid arguments equally.