Jimquisition: Fish, FEZ, And Supporting Art Over Artists

RaikuFA

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animehermit said:
RaikuFA said:
In fact, I'm still harrased over what Bioware said whenever I say I like JRPGs I get flak for it and the reason is "Bioware says that they're bad, so you have shitty taste in games."
Bioware never said JPRGs were bad AFAIK, it was the lead writer of SWTOR, who said something along the lines of "You can put a j in front of it all you want, but those games aren't RPGs."
SAtill dosen't stop people from bashing people who like the genre.
 

Andy of Comix Inc

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Wait what? Earthworm Jim... how do I... *stares at Earthworm Jim HD laying on harddrive*

...I shouldn't feel like this. I didn't know what's-his-face was a racist and homophobe when I bought it, so knowing it now shouldn't make that product any less fun for me. ...but um... yeah, how do I permanently scrub games off my account again? OH GOD I PLAYED THE GAME WITH MY BOYFRIEND AT ONE POINT TOO, THIS IS JUST *barfs*

...well thanks Jim for telling me that fact.... THAT SAID I fucking love Interplay. Seriously. God bless Interplay. So... so maybe it balances itself out after all. ...Interplay saves the day once more! ^_^
 

tautologico

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Zachary Amaranth said:
ManupBatman said:
Hey Jim, is listening to Michael Jackson pedophilia or not?
It's not pedophilia, but one could questionably argue that it was support of pedophilia.

Of course, this brings up an interesting problem, since virtually none of the products we buy are untainted.
"Virtually" indeed, almost none actually. Do you know how many slaves "work" for you? You can estimate this:
http://slaveryfootprint.org/
 

zelda2fanboy

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I'm boycotting this game until there's a PS3 version. (I like the controller more.) Same with Super Meat Boy. I separated art from the artists a long time ago. If I hear the artist is really screwed up in some ways, it doesn't taint the piece in my mind, but usually makes it more interesting. If I don't like the back story behind it, I ignore it and just enjoy the art for itself. It's sort of the way I enjoy outsider artists in music. People like Roky Erickson and Tonetta have some fairly fascinating life stories that influence and enhance the art they create. When I watched The Devil and Daniel Johnston, I realized that guy is kind of a selfish violent jerk, so I just paid more attention to the weird and pretty songs on their own merits.

At the end of the day, I came to understand how little of a "dollar vote" I have when it comes to buying products. And if the acts of the creators doesn't directly affect me in some way (like forcing me to run down the batteries on my xbox controller), I don't really care, nor do I feel an obligation to care. When other people do care, it comes off as a little silly.

Didn't Jim do a video all about how creators usually don't own their intellectual property and bemoaned the fact that the studio was doing nothing with the Metal Arms franchise? That Doug guy probably doesn't get royalties off of the games.
 

NaramSuen

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RaikuFA said:
Podunk said:
...So Inafune can say Japanese game sucks, but when the Fez guys does it then that's not okay?
Inafune was constructive, Fish's initial comments were just trolling. Thats what people were upset about.
Actually, in an interview with Wired, Inafune said that Fish's comments were "necessary."
http://www.wired.com/gamelife/2012/04/keiji-inafune-qa/
 

LilithSlave

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I hate to admit it, but I, as well, find Fez to be a fascinating game that I want to play.

But as anyone here is sure to know about my gaming feelings and likes, I surely cannot stand Phil Fish. And confirms all of my paranoias and frustrations about Western gaming industry right now. And the next time someone calls me a lying, shallow prick who has a victim complex about their shitty Japanese games, and a retarded, bigoted, "autistic" desire to play shitty, anime bullshit that I'm forcing myself to enjoy. And will not believe the industry has any prejudice whatsoever towards Japanese games right now unless evidence is consistently shoved in their face. And now, I can point to Phil Fish to add to things.

A great irony here though, is that FEZ looks like an NES era, cutesy Japanese game.

Wait, not that.
There we go. Doesn't it look, well, similar?

Yes, of course has a similar look and feel and general presentation to old school Japanese games. So of course I'm interested. I may buy this game, just because I can't pass it up. I can say one thing, though. Phil Fish does not have my support in general. I want to avoid this mentality, as Phil Fish is sadly not anywhere close to alone, to get anymore speed. This mentality does not need to become more mainstream than it already is. When I was a kid, these hostilities between Western and Japanese developers, simply did not exist. And that was a good thing.

And so, while he may not be a racist, or even as prejudiced towards Japanese games as many people say here is(clearly, in my book, taking inspiration from Japanese aesthetics and platformers himself), I don't think this mentality needs to be spreading any further at all.
 

craigbz

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What's with the Zool picture? I loved that game (the demo) on my Amiga and would love to know the context of the picture in this Jimquisition episode!
 

JesterRaiin

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Jimothy Sterling said:
whether or not we should support art even if we don't like the artist, and whether someone being an "asshole" ought to factor into the purchase of a product.
We crave for wonderful art, yet we can't stand providers not fitting our description of "correct behavior". Story old as the Mankind itself.
It won't change. It never changes. So does our hypocrisy. Ah well... Que sera, sera.
 
Jan 27, 2011
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I'm not sure if I should support Fez, or not. I was at an indie demo night and I LOVED what I saw of Fez, and if the guy has an opinion he's entitled to it...

But the way he said it. That was just extremely rude and unacceptable. And the stuff he said in the fallout wasn't much better.

...I think I'm just gonna wait for it to come to steam and go on sale. I was originally gonna buy this full price, now it's been degraded to my standard online bargain bin process.
 

Sylveria

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RaikuFA said:
I also won't support Earthworm Jim. After all the shit Tommy Tallarico said on his show why should I support a racist douchebag?

But yeah, Fish is an ass for what he said but he was right that Braids creator deserves more flak cause at least Fish backtracked and said it was CURRENT games from Japan that suck(which is huge your mileage may vary territory there).
I think Fish is a shining example of what's wrong with the "indie" scene now. We get these indie darlings who are winning awards and getting praise for stuff that isn't even out or done yet. Then, because he's a skilled media whore, he stays in the headlines by spouting of increasingly smug stuff like winning an the indie game of the year award.. again.. in a contest that has never before and never since allowed the same game to win twice.. and was run by a friend of his.. who also worked on the game with him.. just when he happened to be having last-minute financial problems.
 

Sylveria

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JesterRaiin said:
Jimothy Sterling said:
whether or not we should support art even if we don't like the artist, and whether someone being an "asshole" ought to factor into the purchase of a product.
We crave for wonderful art, yet we can't stand providers not fitting our description of "correct behavior". Story old as the Mankind itself.
It won't change. It never changes. So does our hypocrisy. Ah well... Que sera, sera.
As long as they're asking us to buy something, they need to be a salesman in public. You can be a smug, egotistical, asshole artist and still make fantastic art that'll be appreciated as art, but once you start asking me to buy it from you, the dynamic changes. Sure, you made a great piece of art, but so have hundreds of other people, why would I buy your art when I can buy art from people who don't go out of their way to be an asshole to me? Sure, what you made could just be that good that its awesomeness completely drowns out the artist's assholery, but in this case? For a fair number of people, it isn't impressive enough to overlook the fact you're supporting a guy who will more than likely start spouting off on twitter about how good his sales are and how awesome he is.
 

Deadagent

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animehermit said:
RaikuFA said:
In fact, I'm still harrased over what Bioware said whenever I say I like JRPGs I get flak for it and the reason is "Bioware says that they're bad, so you have shitty taste in games."
Bioware never said JPRGs were bad AFAIK, it was the lead writer of SWTOR, who said something along the lines of "You can put a j in front of it all you want, but those games aren't RPGs."
To me this always came across as an argument from ignorance and arrogance, the full quote is:

"Well, before I address the main point I just want to take a slightly more controversial route: You can put a 'J' in front of it, but it's not an RPG. You don't make any choices, you don't create a character, you don't live your character... I don't know what those are - adventure games maybe? But they're not RPG's"

So by going with this definition RPG is a game where you make choices, create a character, and immerse yourself in the world. Now this is a good definition.....for tabletop and pen+paper games. However we are talking video games, and in the video game world that definition is rather cluncky. Basically this means if Heavy Rain had a character creator it would be an RPG. Now does that sound right to you? Well unless you've been gaming only for the past 2 years it shouldn't.

Also the fact that I hear this "WRPGs are real rpgs" crap to this day pisses me off and the fact that it's rooted in this statement makes me almost unable to play Mass Effect, since I keep thinking "Mmm yes, this is what these people call a real rpg, a cover based shooter with perks and dialogue options". And thats probably my opinion about Doung TenNapels games hasn't changed, the homophobia dosen't shine trough (on neverhood anyway) unlike the arrogance and downright pretensiousness on Biowares work.

In short I think Bioware has let the recent fame get into their heads and suddenly they have the right to say what is an RPG and whats isn't.

As for Fish, I never even heard of fez, and it dosen't seem all that interesting in grand scheme of indie game industry. So they never lost anything with me to begin with, however if I was gonna purchase it, I dont know if this would affect my decision, on the one hand this statement is idiotic, its a blanket statement. However he does say in hes twitter that he apologized right away for the statement and it was supposed to be a little crude humour to begin with.

Still I find it hilarious that every time someone makes a statement like this, it always focuses on Final Fantasy and lack of evolution while making Shin megami tensei the execption to the rule declearing it as a breath of fresh air, while their games have changed about as much (maybe even less) than final fantasy in the last 20 years, its just that these games havent been released outside japan for that long.
 

F4LL3N

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If all he said was "Japanese games suck" then you forgot to clarify these gamers are childish and their opinions are invalid, unlike yours, which are scientifically correct.
 

cymonsgames

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vxicepickxv said:
So, here's a question for Jim. How can I give you money if you don't produce anything of value?
FTFY

"I'm not a troll, and to prove it I'm going to make one review that's fair and balanced." So is this whole review a big troll? Because in the past he's clearly not riding the middle ground. He's either been a troll or a big fat idiot. And if you ask me he should have never brought attention to that fact.

Better to let the world think you're a troll than to assert you're not and leave "idiot" as the only option.
 

scw55

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Thank you for bringing to my attention the Earthworm Jim thing. I was oblivious.

I wasn't going to buy Fez. Didn't know it existed. Still not going to buy it because Platformers piss me off :p This unique spin on it will just make me depressed.

As a Welshman I often hear worse Xenophobic comments. It's a shame the internet thinks slandering an entire nation's video game produce is bad but constant sheep related jokes are funny. Same internet that thinks scanty cardboard women in games is fine but Mechs in Fantasy games is pushing it.

The internet is full of double standard twats! What a surprise.

(I disliked the early JQ episodes due to the method of communication, content of the episodes and quality of editing. I dare say I almost like them now. I will actually go to the effort of watching them. Given that I watch 25% of video content on The Escapist, 80% being LRR related, that's a huge complement to Jim coming from me. It pays to be patient and open minded.)
 

juyunseen

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Scrustle said:
I feel like I should have something to say about this issue since I got Fez and I think it's a great game, but I can't help but find that I'm sitting in the "I don't care" camp. The game is great and very charming, and nothing about the game has any kind of racist tones to it. Fish and his team made a great game, and none of the profits of the game are going to go towards any kind of "anti-Japanese" cause or anything. And to say he's racist just because he said all Japanese games suck is stupid. He didn't say that Japanese people were bad or inferior in any way, he just said their games are rubbish. As stupid as that point of view is, he's allowed to have it. It's not hurting anyone. Giving him money for his game doesn't mean you're contributing to the payment of some kind of torture machine/siege engine that he's going to invade Japan with. His views are completely inconsequential. The game is really fun and interesting, and that's all that should really matter.
NO! HE'S BUILDING AN ENORMOUS TREBUCHET TO SEND GIGANTIC APPLE PIES AT THE ISLAND OF HIS [email protected]!#[email protected]%RSTYHRTYER
 

Xenowolf

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For me, it wasn't so much that what he said was racist (in fact, I think it wasn't really racist at all), it's just the way he said "your games just suck" comes across as rather assholish, not to mention what a complete dick he came across as on Twitter. Even though I have said I wasn't going to buy Fez, I suppose I might check it out as Jim did actually make a good point in that video.
 

loudestmute

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So, small developer's lead designer behaves like an asshole in public. And this is somehow enough to keep people from purchasing the whole team's product.

Granted, what came out of Phil Fish's mouth has been less than intelligent. Yet to me, it seems like if it was said through a headset mic and the man's name was listed as "xXxPhilFish420xXx" then nothing would seem too out of place.

Being annoying is not enough cause to keep me from supporting a title, especially if I tried the demo and enjoyed it. The business practices of Bobby Kotick and John Riccitello, now that's the kind of asshole behavior that would make me disinterested in a product.