Jimquisition: How To Sell Games Without Being A Lying Dick

Canadamus Prime

Robot in Disguise
Jun 17, 2009
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Yeah, I'm actually excited for Hyrule Warriors and I never get excited for games anymore. That should tell you something. I don't understand why these companies feel the need to outright lie in the press conferences and with their promo material. It ultimately hurts them in the end. Well it would except people don't stop buying their games, so they're probably not going to stop doing it. Meh.
 
Jan 27, 2011
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Thanatos2k said:
I'm looking forward to the reviews when Hyrule Warriors come out. Reviewers have savagely bashed Dynasty Warriors for years, so will simply wrapping a guaranteed high review score franchise around it expose them for hypocrites? Or will they slap their 6s and 7/10s on it and be assaulted by the swarm of rabid fanboys?

Either way, I will enjoy the show.
Me too. :p Proof that major game reviewers are full of shit? Or proof that gamers take review scores way too seriously? Either way, it'll be a fireworks display for the ages.

*starts making popcorn*


---
ON TOPIC:

YES YES A HUNDRED TIMES YES. The reason so many of us likes old Ninty's E3 show was the flood of gameplay they showed. Not only were those gameplay trailers, but they STREAMED live play of them playing the games. If it possible for them to downgrade things before release? Yeah. But I don't think they're that stupid.

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demented said:
For me the next generation consists of a 3DS and a PC.
It's working out pretty well for me so far. Although after E3, I think I'm going to need a WiiU sometime soon. I want to play Splatoon and Hyrule warriors pretty hardcore now. XD
 

Racecarlock

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Jul 10, 2010
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Jimothy Sterling said:
How To Sell Games Without Being A Lying Dick

E3 was full of lies and conjecture, and that was stupid. At least one company was doing it right.
Also, Bug Princess.


Watch Video
All very fine points jim, but do you really think the industry gives a fuck? Once they make their money, they care nothing about any of their customers after that point. They don't care. Because as long as the marketing is good enough and they make their money, they refuse to give two shits about anything after that.

The industry is not run by gamers. It's run by businessmen and marketers, both of which don't play games. We might be their source of income, but they know the marketing tricks now. Even if we're here, most people don't know about us. So they'll buy anything with good enough marketing. This is business, where profit is worshipped above all else.

This is why there's probably going to be another crash.
 

Thanatos2k

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Aug 12, 2013
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synobal said:
Sadly Jim the guys with the advertising and PR degrees will not agree with you. As long as you pour money into advertising you'll be fine regardless of how much you lied.
While simultaneously complaining about how developer costs are spiraling out of control as you dump as much money into advertising as you paid to code it.
 

Flatfrog

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Dec 29, 2010
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Great video as ever, but I have to don my semantic grammar Nazi hat to point out a pet hate:

"Why should we pre-order, let alone buy at launch?" makes no sense. The "let alone" portion of that sentence needs to be the *less likely* option: "why should we buy at launch, let alone pre-order?", or "why should we pre-order, or even buy at launch?".

Sorry about that :)
 

veloper

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Jan 20, 2009
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All we, as gamers, need to stop doing, is keep falling for the same old tricks. False advertisement isn't going away until that happens.

The problem with that is that gamers become savvy and jaded only with age and experience, while new blood is both a given and a necessity for this popular hobby of ours.
 

KazeAizen

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Jul 17, 2013
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demented said:
I have gotten so sick and tired of the Triple A industry. The greed, the homogenization of games, the lack of respect for customers and the outright lies. A while ago I began worrying that I had outgrow games. Then I realized that no, what I've outgrown is the bullshit of companies like Ubisoft and EA.

For me the next generation consists of a 3DS and a PC.

Also, loved the over the top ending in your video. I wish I could come just by thinking about myself.
If you have the money why not add a Wii U to that list as well? They seem to be the ones getting the most interesting software over the next 2 years.
 

gamegod25

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Jul 10, 2008
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synobal said:
Sadly Jim the guys with the advertising and PR degrees will not agree with you. As long as you pour money into advertising you'll be fine regardless of how much you lied.
That certainly seems to be the mindset, so long as they get people to buy the game what happens after that is irrelevant even if treating your customers like shit will only lead to trouble further down the line. It's a sad mindset of humanity in general, grab all you can today no matter the future cost.
 

Something Amyss

Aswyng and Amyss
Dec 3, 2008
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I really did find myself thinking, "well, wait. Would I be bothered by Watch Dogs' visuals if Ubisoft hadn't lied?"

And the answer is "probably not."

Pizza is a decent meal, but you might be disappointed if you got it when you had (pre-)ordered fillet mignon.

The other problem is, as Racecarlock puts it:

Racecarlock said:
Once they make their money, they care nothing about any of their customers after that point. They don't care. Because as long as the marketing is good enough and they make their money, they refuse to give two shits about anything after that.
I mean, what should be the teachable moment from Watch Dogs and what is the teachable moment are completely different. This should have been a moment where we taught them a lesson about how they can't get away with lying to us, but instead, we taught them that they can lie to us, be exposed, spark massive outrage, and still be a million-selling game. Watch Dogs is a dominant media force. What's to stop Gearbox from learning the message that maybe they should lie more or lie bigger next time?

For all the protests, we'll buy the games. Maybe not me specifically, or you specifically, but we as a whole.

And every year, people protest the hype of E3. Each year, the complaints get louder, but EA and Ubisoft and Activision get all the more bombastic. And despite those protests, each year we see these games sell phenomenally well. I can't believe that they will listen until there's a reason to. And we're not giving them cause to do anything but lie more. If you're outraged, but still buying the game, the latter part is all they see.

Fappy said:
The more I see of it, the more I want Hyrule Warriors. I really hope Lu Bu turns out being a secret character or something XD
Probably the best you can hope for is a cameo (a la Samurai Warriors)

I'm kind of hoping we see Zelda characters show up in a future Warriors Orochi game.
 

KazeAizen

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Caramel Frappe said:
Yeah, I have to say ... E3 was almost a let down if it wasn't for Nintendo's amazing display of games and bringing us the good stuff.
On Microsoft's and Sony's end- it was almost all trailer like or scripted gameplay. It bored me. To make matters worse, it was all about survival with a military shooter gig thrown in there.

.. Stop it guys. I'm not even sure if this is because of how successful Call of Duty has been, or if you see we need more scruffy white protagonist males running around with big guns- but can't we get more than that? Nintendo who wasn't in the best position with money due to lack of sales on the WiiU and stuff- has stolen E3 and convinced me to perhaps buy one. That's how powerful and well presented their conference was. They didn't hide around the bush with their gameplay and felt honesty was the way to go.

And it was. Plus the Robot Chicken screentime was genius along with their 'getting to the point' speeches worked very well in their favor. You could say that they saved E3 from being a huge let down.
Also if their Amiibos take off with the kids like Disney Infinity or Skylanders has they will probably be printing money again before you know it. Hell with the opening to their conference I almost didn't care if they showed new software because having Reggie fighting Iwata Super Smash style with a doll up of Jojo's bizarre Adventure thrown in was so inherently awesome and goofy it would've made E3 worth it just to see that.
 

carnex

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Jan 9, 2008
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Ufff. You are, for once nicely and to the point idealistic. It would be awesome to have games represented from the get go as they are. I would love that. However...

Let me premise this with stating that I despise marketing as it stands today and that I do not agree with their actions. But at the same time I must admit that they know what they are doing and that their tactics work.

Simply said honesty doesn't sell, or more truthfully, honesty does not sell as well as deception and confusion. Yes, it would be great if we had, from the start, only true gameplay videos (even if that idea is stupid for variety of reasons including that game does not get final polish until late in development cycle) but job of marketing is not to tell us the truth. It's job is to sell us things. And hype and elation does that better than truth. When commercial ends and we go on with our lives content more or less goes forgotten and what is left is tone and feeling it provoked and that is what lures people into purchasing product (except for borderline fanatical hobbyist and professionals which are in majority on any gaming forum)

Let's just look at a classic example, Coca Cola. Their commercials have absolutely nothing to do with their product. And why would they? Product itself is a guilty pleasure, we know it's bad but we like the taste and sugar rush we get. Therefor their commercials go with generating positive feelings within us. Joy of friendship, music, love... Carbonated caramel soda has nothing to do with any of that but feelings linger. And look at how successful Coca Cola is.

I really have to go, I just hope I gave you people some food for thoughts.
 

Fappy

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Jan 4, 2010
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Zachary Amaranth said:
I really did find myself thinking, "well, wait. Would I be bothered by Watch Dogs' visuals if Ubisoft hadn't lied?"

And the answer is "probably not."

Pizza is a decent meal, but you might be disappointed if you got it when you had (pre-)ordered fillet mignon.

The other problem is, as Racecarlock puts it:

Racecarlock said:
Once they make their money, they care nothing about any of their customers after that point. They don't care. Because as long as the marketing is good enough and they make their money, they refuse to give two shits about anything after that.
I mean, what should be the teachable moment from Watch Dogs and what is the teachable moment are completely different. This should have been a moment where we taught them a lesson about how they can't get away with lying to us, but instead, we taught them that they can lie to us, be exposed, spark massive outrage, and still be a million-selling game. Watch Dogs is a dominant media force. What's to stop Gearbox from learning the message that maybe they should lie more or lie bigger next time?

For all the protests, we'll buy the games. Maybe not me specifically, or you specifically, but we as a whole.

And every year, people protest the hype of E3. Each year, the complaints get louder, but EA and Ubisoft and Activision get all the more bombastic. And despite those protests, each year we see these games sell phenomenally well. I can't believe that they will listen until there's a reason to. And we're not giving them cause to do anything but lie more. If you're outraged, but still buying the game, the latter part is all they see.

Fappy said:
The more I see of it, the more I want Hyrule Warriors. I really hope Lu Bu turns out being a secret character or something XD
Probably the best you can hope for is a cameo (a la Samurai Warriors)

I'm kind of hoping we see Zelda characters show up in a future Warriors Orochi game.
We can only hope to see Link go toe-to-toe with Lu Bu and a Gundam.
 

Fasckira

Dice Tart
Oct 22, 2009
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I used to love demo discs. Floppys/CDs full of games coming up, with usually an accompanying article in the magazine. There was no lying, just an opinion based on the exact same strip of content that you yourself could play a few months before the game hit the shelves. Hell, I wouldn't even considering buying a game on release date if I hadn't had a chance to rattle through a demo yet. Simpler times.

beef_razor said:
getting to the cut scene was the goal for me.
Bit off topic but.. I was getting to do a preview on NFS The Run many moons ago; we were all having a good laugh, things were going smooth till we got asked what we thought about the inclusion of QTEs. Most people there seemed quite favourable but I countered and said, "I dont like it, because I used to use the cut scene time to drink some of my tea".

I was laughed at and mocked, not helped by being the only Brit there (what with the tea reference and all) but even now I think my point still stands - I like cut scenes because they're a break! I've just spent ages trying to beat a boss or goal, I want a few moments to enjoy that before getting back into it.
 

xaszatm

That Voice in Your Head
Sep 4, 2010
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beef_razor said:
You know, back in the day (like PS1 and PS2 era) I actually enjoyed per-rendered cut scenes. In all Final Fantasy games for ps1, getting to the cut scene was the goal for me. Now-a-days... so don't fucking care. You use to be able to tell the difference between game play and some CGI thing. Now, it's hard to tell (sometimes), a lot because of developers and publishers lying and setting ridiculous expectations, and partly because the gaming crowd has gotten spoiled and whiny. I've had a PS4 for a couple months now. The games look great (for the most part, Bound by Flame is an exception) and then I went back to 360 to play ME3, and it also looked great. This industry has gotten so fucked up.
Well, I'd argue that those pre-rendered cut scenes worked because they didn't represent the final game and weren't supposed to. Final Fantasy VII, VIII, and IX's cut scenes were there to give a more movie-like feel for those scenes. Anyone going in knew that the game would like worse that those cut scenes so weren't angered by the lower graphic quality. In more recent years, developers are using the same methods but claiming that the videos are gameplay and not upscaled shots or cutscenes.
 

Dragon Zero

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Apr 16, 2009
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There's something different about the show today... Jim, have you lost weight? It's a good look for you!

Anyway I'm amazed just how many people have come to the conclusion that art direction is more important than actual graphical horsepower and yet it goes ignored.
 

xaszatm

That Voice in Your Head
Sep 4, 2010
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Fasckira said:
I used to love demo discs. Floppys/CDs full of games coming up, with usually an accompanying article in the magazine. There was no lying, just an opinion based on the exact same strip of content that you yourself could play a few months before the game hit the shelves. Hell, I wouldn't even considering buying a game on release date if I hadn't had a chance to rattle through a demo yet. Simpler times.

beef_razor said:
getting to the cut scene was the goal for me.
Bit off topic but.. I was getting to do a preview on NFS The Run many moons ago; we were all having a good laugh, things were going smooth till we got asked what we thought about the inclusion of QTEs. Most people there seemed quite favourable but I countered and said, "I dont like it, because I used to use the cut scene time to drink some of my tea".

I was laughed at and mocked, not helped by being the only Brit there (what with the tea reference and all) but even now I think my point still stands - I like cut scenes because they're a break! I've just spent ages trying to beat a boss or goal, I want a few moments to enjoy that before getting back into it.
Cut scene QTE's can work if it makes it clear what is a standard cut scene and what is a QTE cut scene. See Kingdom Hearts II for examples of that.
 

wooty

Vi Britannia
Aug 1, 2009
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I find it ironic that people badmouth Nintendo saying that "ohhh, its always the same thing every year. Zelda and Mario get wheeled out for their annual hype show".

Now it seems that the two new Zelda titles were the most interesting things revealed at this years EEE. They've definitely put my mind on the future WiiU owners track.