Jimquisition: In the Hall of the Mountain Dew

PunkRex

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Feb 19, 2010
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Mountain Dew tastes like freaking Fairy liquid man...
<--- Pepsi fan.

I wanna know what game devs are ACTUALLY doing with all this money, anyone know of a show/site that lists expenses, etc? Im generally curious.
 

Jimothy Sterling

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Apr 18, 2011
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If only they advertised Thousand Island, then we could call it crossdressing
And Jim how do you know what hedgehog piss tastes like? -_^
 

Something Amyss

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Dec 3, 2008
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Is it wrong that I want to hug Jim after that?

Nobody should have to suffer through Mountain Dew alone!

Their monetary concerns are kinda...Well, crap.
 

Stryc9

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How much did Miniature Willem Dafoe get paid to hug that Dorito in this weeks episode?
 

SwimmingRock

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Oh, God. That intro was amazing.

Aside from that, I don't have much to say. Entertaining and good video as always.

DVS BSTrD said:
If only they advertised Thousand Island, then we could call it crossdressing
I love this idea. Especially if they officially called it that and insisted that anybody who wants their bonus stuff had to order it by saying they wanted to try crossdressing. Oh, the trolling of people who shout "fag" online. Yes. Yesssss.
 

Milanezi

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I slept through most of the episode, but I heard something about Mountain Dew... I like Mountain Dew... But sleeping is better.
 

lord.jeff

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I agree with this episode and love it even though you seem to repeat the same points several times.
 

Falseprophet

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If you needed any more proof that video games are part and parcel of the mainstream entertainment industry, here it is. Pro sports teams guzzle cash from sponsors and TV networks and city governments, and ticket prices continue to hover in the stratosphere. Tentpole movies are co-financed by government grants and tax breaks, sell buckets of toys and other tie-in merchandising, have product placement in their films, but try seeing a blockbuster film without paying the 3D/IMAX/what-have-you surcharge. And of course the movie studios keep crying over piracy while failing to provide any kind of effective digital distribution model for their content. If you had any doubts the AAA game industry is one of the big (whiny) boys now, you can discard them.
 

chiefohara

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It was inevitable this was going to start happening more and more.

Corporations and corporate entities are there to make money, not art. They couldn't give a brass monkeys about the licence or the fan base. If they think they can make a thousand more bucks by screwing the IP over with mountain dew or subway ads. Just watch them do it. Just watch them kill golden goose after golden goose.
 

Swyftstar

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Stop beating around the bush Jim, tell us how you really feel.
Mountain Dew isn't that bad provided you drink it in a cup that's three parts ice and one part soda so that it is so cold that your tastebuds can't even discern what you are pouring down you gullet. If that crap gets warm though, it may very well kill you or at least leave you needing a few years of therapy to get over the PTSD.
As far as crossovers are concerned, when will McDonalds start giving out free Halo 4 glasses with the purchase of a happy meal.
 

barbzilla

He who speaks words from mouth!
Dec 6, 2010
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Jim first off let me say this... I fucking love you man! I say we get rid of this silly notion of Jim Sterling for President and bump this up to the next notch, Jim Sterling for Supreme Overseer. You just come in and tell us how to live our lives and we obey as the happy little peons we are.

OT: I couldn't agree more. I think that video game advertising has its place. I fully supported Anarchy Online when they went Free to Play with in game ads (well the base game anyway, not the expansions), the line has to be drawn though when the developers are expecting us to continue buying ever increasingly bad products from a customer service level. I think it was Gabe Newell who said "It is a sad state of affairs when the pirates release better copies of the games than the developers" (not that I or he support piracy mind). If they want to have their fueled by Mountain Dew ad campaign, fine knock a fiver off of the product, don't expect us to stomach your greed with open arms.
 

SonOfMethuselah

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You know, I try not to think about just how much money AAA developers/publishers rake in on their big titles, because it makes this funny little vein in my forehead start to throb. What the hell do they do with it? It can't just be to fund more development, it can't possibly be for that...

Oh, shit, there's the vein. Goddamn it.
 

KiKiweaky

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Video games are making more money than blockbuster movies these days, so the big releases claiming they are short of cash is bollocks and thanks jim for stating it in such a manner.

Had me in stitches ^_^
 

leviadragon99

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I use Internet explorer... but yeah, I'll stick with PC gaming and Steam rather than have Microsoft mining my wallet forevermore.
 

Jandau

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All this is well and good, but what I want to know is how does Jim know what hedgehog piss tastes like? :p
 

Brad Gardner

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You need to make at least 6 to 7 trillion dollars net profit. Before you can be considered successful in the multinational business world, and that's on one property.

All Joking aside, I'm not sure if they are comparing games to business software ie MS Office and Adobe Premiere and what not.
 

BlackStar42

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Don't mention the Dew! Jim mentioned it once, but I think he got away with it all right.
 

Jimothy Sterling

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Jandau said:
All this is well and good, but what I want to know is how does Jim know what hedgehog piss tastes like? :p
Hedgehogs can't hold it in when you're trying to suck their little hedgecocks.
 

Jandau

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Dec 19, 2008
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Jimothy Sterling said:
Jandau said:
All this is well and good, but what I want to know is how does Jim know what hedgehog piss tastes like? :p
Hedgehogs can't hold it in when you're trying to suck their little hedgecocks.
Ah, this is one of those answers that brings with it even more questions. And vomiting. Plenty of vomiting...
 

IamLEAM1983

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Aug 22, 2011
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Falseprophet said:
If you needed any more proof that video games are part and parcel of the mainstream entertainment industry, here it is. Pro sports teams guzzle cash from sponsors and TV networks and city governments, and ticket prices continue to hover in the stratosphere. Tentpole movies are co-financed by government grants and tax breaks, sell buckets of toys and other tie-in merchandising, have product placement in their films, but try seeing a blockbuster film without paying the 3D/IMAX/what-have-you surcharge. And of course the movie studios keep crying over piracy while failing to provide any kind of effective digital distribution model for their content. If you had any doubts the AAA game industry is one of the big (whiny) boys now, you can discard them.
*slow handclap of utter approval*

And my deepest sympathies to Jim for suffering through the piss-coloured Hell of the Dew.

It's just sad to consider that what once was a hobby shared by a niche of passionate folks, some twenty years ago, turned into this big corporate enabler that tries to justify its own excesses with online passes, gateway fees and other ridiculous opt-in purchases.

I miss the days when a team of two or three, a Pizza and Coke budget and some patience could deliver little games that would get passed on via floppy discs. In the triple-A business, if you're not siphoning the equivalent of a fraction of a single State or province's yearly budget into the cost of producing a SINGLE game - you're apparently doing it wrong.

And some people wonder why innovation's dead. Of course it's dead; the only way to make money is to play it safe and use your millions to, oh, sharpen up the textures in places and maybe - just maybe - keep your level designers busy for a year. That's when you're not releasing map packs.
 

hermes

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This issue is pretty meh... Jim talks a lot about not understanding how AAA games always trying harder to get more money than other, smaller games; but he fails to notice that those games costs several times more than other, smaller games...

Yes, I do agree with some of his points. The XBox Live price has become harder and harder to justify since the amount of invasive ads has grow to such an annoying level. But to compare the server and costs requirements of Halo 4 or Uncharted 3 with Gotham City Impostors, for example, is rather naive.
 

Mr. Omega

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Jul 1, 2010
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3:12-3:38, among other bits talking about xbl
A nice summary of why I've avoided the Xbox 360 this generation and why I'll almost certainly avoid its successor next generation.

As this generation winds down, all the problems with this generation have been becoming more and more noticeable. As said in a previous episode, some of the industry's best games are getting bogged down by their worst business practices.

I really, really hope Nintendo will avoid this shit with the WiiU. They probably won't, but one can hope...
 

Jimothy Sterling

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Jimothy Sterling said:
Jandau said:
All this is well and good, but what I want to know is how does Jim know what hedgehog piss tastes like? :p
Hedgehogs can't hold it in when you're trying to suck their little hedgecocks.
are you raping sonic the hedgehog??

@back on topic

I like mountain dew but I don't have 7-11 where I live so I can't get any extra exp or be part of the halo 4 marketing stunt.
 

CardinalPiggles

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Maybe triple A developers and big name publishers are more worried about this kind of thing compared to middle ground or indie developers because their games cost more money to fund? Plus these triple A games are more likely to be pirated over any smaller game as we found out with stats from -I believe- The Pirate Bay or some other big pirating web site.

Then again I completely agree with you otherwise, that these companies are hiding their greed behind 'desperation'.
 

Canadamus Prime

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Jun 17, 2009
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I do it funny, funny in a "beat you head against a desk" sort of way, that it's the biggest and richest companies in the business that are all crying poverty. You don't see any of the Indie developers crying poverty or whining about piracy and used game sales. Yeah, games have to make money as you're swimming in your Money Bins like Scrooge McDuck.
 

thiosk

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I concur, mountain dew is AWFUL. Won't ingest the stuff. Ugh!

Give me the original mountain dew back. Straight distilled corn whiskey in a glass jar. Whoopee!
 

rembrandtqeinstein

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Just stay away from corporate publishers and you can avoid the vast majority of the bullshit. None of the "big" franchises are so good that you can't live without them. Just skip halo and uncharted. Borrow it from a friend or rent it or buy it used.

Though to be fair I did spend some of my gaming budget this year on Borderlands 2 and XCOM. But other than throwaway multiplayer mode in XCOM it seems like 2K is generally hands off with its developers.

There are gillions of free or almost free games out there, no need to spend $60 on a box if you know it goes mostly to support the trophy wives and drug habits of executives and board members.
 

Callate

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Mmmm. Brominated vegetable oil.

Regarding the episode: as a primarily PC gamer, I think I may actually be glad in some ways not to have the option of playing Uncharted and Halo (at least, Halo post-2, when Microsoft returned to admitting that they really don't give a rat's ass about PC gamers.) Sure, they're good games, and PC gamers have to deal with more onerous DRM most of the time, but something about the console market seems to give the big boys the idea that they can get away with "every game comes with a heaping helping of contempt" policies even more than the PC market.
 

JarinArenos

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I'm still waiting for the kickstarter revolution to really bear fruit. In another year or two, a few of the biggest ones (Wasteland 2, etc) will have borne fruit, and we'll see whether their success/failure will have a major impact on the gaming industry.
 
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Uncharted 3 pissed me off, and I'm still pissed. I love the games. I bought Uncharted 1 used, loved it. Then I bought Uncharted 2 new, loved it. Then me and my brother pooled our money together to buy the Uncharted 3 collector's edition, and only one of us could play multiplayer because of the fucking online fucking pass.

Thankfully a good friend gave me her pass, but the fact all this happened is just fucking sad.
 

Catrixa

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I think we're being told to feel sorry for the poor developers because that's kind of the culture here in the US. Customer loyalty isn't really derived from superior products or services, it's derived from ignorance and guilt trips. Maybe this is from a lack of regulation? I'm not sure, but when a huge company is about to create about a million unemployed workers because the CEO made a critically stupid error, our first reaction is to throw money at them until they're better, because THINK OF THE WORKERS. Hell, there were about a grillion threads on why tips are mandatory in the US, and that's a case of "think of the workers!" too.

Maybe it's the idea that we, the lowly, poor, stupid consumers can't possibly touch those big, powerful, rich CEO's (who obviously are infinitely smarter and better and have never had any advantages in life whatsoever), but if we stop buying from them for ONE SECOND, they'll fire all of our friends and relatives, because if they can't buy another yacht, well, then life just simply isn't worth living. I feel like this is not at all unrelated to the idea that, if we just give all of the rich people a break, they'll shower us with money. It hasn't happened yet, but that hasn't stopped anyone from spouting it.

I think, to get Microsoft to stop crying "but we're too pooooor!" we'd need to rearrange our silly culture to stop emphasizing early life advantage, which is only attainable by having more money than everyone else. I could be wrong, but that's just what it looks like to me.
 

Entitled

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IamLEAM1983 said:
It's just sad to consider that what once was a hobby shared by a niche of passionate folks, some twenty years ago, turned into this big corporate enabler that tries to justify its own excesses with online passes, gateway fees and other ridiculous opt-in purchases.

I miss the days when a team of two or three, a Pizza and Coke budget and some patience could deliver little games that would get passed on via floppy discs. In the triple-A business, if you're not siphoning the equivalent of a fraction of a single State or province's yearly budget into the cost of producing a SINGLE game - you're apparently doing it wrong.

And some people wonder why innovation's dead. Of course it's dead; the only way to make money is to play it safe and use your millions to, oh, sharpen up the textures in places and maybe - just maybe - keep your level designers busy for a year. That's when you're not releasing map packs.
Innovation is not dead, you are just searching for it at the wrong places.

Nowadays, it's popular to accuse people who bash "the mainstream", with claims that those are just hipsters, but really, in that regard, they have a point:

If you are looking for dedication, artistic fidelity, and styles and themes that feel like they are made directly for you, then go and find your own obscure niche, instead of drooling over whatever the "AAA" industry and the main gaming media is hyping at the moment.

A mainstream blockbuster industry is, by DEFINITION, soullessly bland, CEOs are intentionally trying to dumb it own to the Lowest Common Denominator, it's only purpose is to reach as mony people as possible.

To identify that monstrous side of gaming as "our" gaming, as the serious, hardcore, high-quality, AAA, call-it-what-you-want industry that we are supposed to care about the most, is it's own foolishness.

Just because you are interested in literature, doesn't mean that you have to judge the past years based on Twilight and 50 shades, you can always find some postcyberpunk adventure, or an epic Fallout/My Little Pony fanfiction novel written with amazing talent, whatever floats your boat. Just because you like music, doesn't mean that you have to listen to Bieber and Lady Gaga, there is always some christian industrial death metal band or some alternative J-rock that you will like.

The same with games. No one says that you HAVE TO care about the mainstream, or identify with it as if it would be made for you. There are also some incredibly enjoyable games made, (and not even just ironically pixellated 2D indie games) only slightly behind the front lines. Look them up.
 

Yopaz

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Jun 3, 2009
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Now what's so bad about Mountain Dew? I would buy Halo 4 if that means I could get Mountain Dew with it. I miss Mountain Dew so much. They stopped selling it here many years ago. Like any other awesome soda.

I've got to say that I agree with the XBL fees being bullshit. Steam is able to offer a great service which does pretty much the same for free, the main difference is that it's better.
 

Your Gaffer

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Great video! I have always felt the same way, it is so galling to hear these various developers and publishers talk about how they NEED to have the day one, on disc DLC, the online pass, the in-game advertisements, the cross promotions, and the always online DRM or else they won't make any money and will go out of business.

Of course as long as people buy into these things they will continue. I don't really mind a lot of it except for in-game advertisements in paid games and the always online DRM stuff, but I agree it is so insulting to hear some of the justifications given for these practices.

I wish they would just man up and say, "We are a for profit business and our mission is to make money. Now go buy that day one DLC. Make sure to buy some Mountain Dew and Doritos to get the "Fat Nerd" unlock and hey, did you notice all those subway sandwiches in the game? I'll bet that makes you hungry, go buy some Subway."
 

LostintheWick

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ForgottenPr0digy said:
Jimothy Sterling said:
Jandau said:
All this is well and good, but what I want to know is how does Jim know what hedgehog piss tastes like? :p
Hedgehogs can't hold it in when you're trying to suck their little hedgecocks.
are you raping sonic the hedgehog??
Why not? Everybody else associated with him already has :)
 

BooTsPs3

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I completely agree with most of this. It's the shameless, in your face advertising like this that bothers me. If used right, advertising can both net the dev some more money, and make the game more immersive. For example, the ipod in MGS4. Advertisement, yes. But it was a lot closer to reality than some random in-game mp3 player with a generic name. It made it feel a little more real.

Imagine seeing something like Mcdonalds restaurants in an open world game. This makes the in-game world seem more like the real world, and nets the dev some extra money. Granted, it needs to flow like the rest of the world. None of that "Pepsi machines can't be thrown in bionic commando because it associates the brand name with violence" crap.

I feel advertising is OK in cases like i stated above, but crap like this with halo and mountain dew, and uncharted and subway sickens me. It's nothing more than a cash grab and benefits the consumer in no way at all.

P.S. Jim, you said MS charges devs up to Forty Thousand Grand to patch their games. 40 million dollars is a lot. I guess it explains the "poor" developers haha.
 

Beryl77

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Wow, hadn't even heard of that barcode scanning campaign. Now that's just ridiculous. Not much we can do though, beside calling them out on their bullshit and not buying their bullshit.

Anyway, does Mountain Dew really taste that bad? We don't have any where I live.
 

loc978

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What's in that bottle may indeed taste like hedgehog piss (I wouldn't know, I've never had hedgehog piss)... but most certainly does not taste like sugar. That wasn't Throwback, so it tastes like high fructose corn syrup, a distinctly different brand of cloyingly sweet.

As for the rest of the video... dayum, you're tolerant of AAA assrape. I still take issue with the actions they take, and you only take issue with the wording and being treated like an idiot? I still say it takes a special brand of idiocy (or maybe it's just a behavioral addiction? I dunno, never had one of those, so it seems like the same thing to me) to continue buying when these are their marketing tactics.
 

MortisLegio

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I'm fine with a company have tie-in campaigns, so long as the "savings" come down; Like a free piece of DLC or no more online passes. I fine with them putting ads on Xbox live if they charge less for Xbox live. I have no problem with companies doing any of these so long as the savings come down to the customers, which will make the company more money. If they aren't going to give the customers something back for all this then they should just admit that they are greedy and want to have a money pit like Scrooge McDuck.
 

Casual Shinji

Should've gone before we left.
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I never saw those Uncharted 3 Subway commercials... and now I wish I never did.

Fuck, that was a sickening display! Shame on you, Naughty Dog.
 

General Vengeance

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Now, now Mountain Dew and Tequila tastes great together. (Lots of Tequila)
Then again, paint thinner and Mr. Clean taste good too with lots of Tequila.
 

Therumancer

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Hrmmmm, well I think the problem is the corperate mentality as many people have pointed out. Corperations nowadays are not simply out to make a fair profit (take in more money than they spend), but to grow at a specific, forecasted rate. The issue is that you have a bunch of suits who have experts telling them that to be considered successful they will need to grow "X" amount in the next billing cycle to remain competitive. These forecasts being based on what the most successful titles in video games are making. Basically if your FPS makes a hundred million dollars in profit, and someone else's makes 250 million that's considered a failure. Likewise if you don't make X % more money than you did at the same time the year before that's considrred a failure. It's not like a business is going to say "whelps we spent a few hundred million, but made it all back plus $50k that's a win", if projections say a company should say make 20% more this year than last year and you don't do that, then it's considered a failure.

That's insane, but it's sadly how the corperate mentality works. In part because the shareholders view the whole thing as a game themselves, and don't generally have any vested interest in any product. If a stock isn't performing they just dump it and buy one that will.

When it comes to servers and such, common sense dictates that maintaining servers should be considered as part of the $60 price tag and development costs. Sadly that's not the case nowadays, as those "costs" are a constant drain, companies want other revenue streams to maintain them. After all they want to take their big lumps of cash and spend or invest them, not keep them around to pay upkeep fees and spend years finding out exactly how much money they made after interest fades and the servers close down.
 

Wesley Brannock

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Any time I see a video game company that made huge costly products thats backed by market ads , huge customer output , D . L . C , merchandising , pre-orders of products not even released. Then insists that those same customers pay an extra tab by subscription fee for the production costs that the GAME COMPANY made. All I think is this.

 

Mr_Terrific

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Wonder why he jumped on Uncharted from last year instead of CoD and it's eventual eat and drink shit for XP deals with Mtn. Dew but we still get boned out of another $50 for maps every year. Surely that's more relevant, right?

Or what about the fact that the Robert Florence thing happened and Jim didn't have the stones to talk about that of what we already know? You'd think Jim would be all over a story like that.
 

ex275w

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I think the problem is that yes, companies are looking out to make money, but partnering with other companies to sell you two products at the same time is stupid (it runs in the moronic logic that the people who like Subway will run Uncharted and vice versa) and usually only one of the companies ends up losing money. It's the wrong way to make money.

The problem is that Star Wars and other huge franchises like Transformers are American-made and are a HUGE part of American capitalist culture. Halo, Gears of War are trying to copy the profits Lucasarts has made since the 80's. Star Wars whored itself successfully and has made millions with toys, novels, comics, video games, cereal deals, etc. Master Chief and Mountain Dew are carrying that legacy

This is why you won't see an European franchise like Discworld whoring itself for money. In Japan, everyone in the anime industry is trying to copy Neon Genesis Evangelion and whoring themselves to the same degree.

Any thoughts on my conclusion?

EDIT: (Also big franchises are the only ones that can afford to be the littlest, prettiest whores on the market)
 

Arif_Sohaib

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The development costs are still very large for AAA games, so they do need the money.
Smaller ones don't need it because their budgets are smaller and if a large publisher is releasing them they would not like to gamble too much on it.
For example, Halo can be used to make money and then the money could be given to newer IPs(I am not saying it will, but it could).
Would you still think it is this bad if 2K used these tactics to raise money for extremely risky stuff like Spec Ops?
 

Strazdas

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May 28, 2011
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I dont mind advertisement in games when it done well. like you know when you walk in a town that has like 100 billboards and 10% of them are real advertisements, or when a character use a laptop in cutscene and it happens to have a HP brand on it. that would simply look like "hey have to use a laptop from somone" type of stuff.
What i get pissed off is when they want you to pay 15 dollars for what should be ashamed to even call it a patch.
And subscription is why i will never use xbox live, to hell with such idiocity.
 

Jimothy Sterling

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JarinArenos said:
I'm still waiting for the kickstarter revolution to really bear fruit. In another year or two, a few of the biggest ones (Wasteland 2, etc) will have borne fruit, and we'll see whether their success/failure will have a major impact on the gaming industry.
right there with you.

the big publishers have no clue when it comes to this stuff. i remember reading that at least one publisher apparoached obsidian and i wish i was making this up for them to do the kickstarter, raise all the budget, make the game, shoulder all the costs, sign over the IP, loose most of the profits, have the publisher saying what they could and couldnt include and and in return the publisher would give them retail and marketing :-|

if nothing else else told me how out of touch publishers were with consumers and how they see them as nothing but walking cow wallets to be milked it was that
 

Shiro No Uma

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Nice. Many things I had never thought about, however I feel like there is an even more interesting trend in the current gaming economy. Many of the big companies, Microsoft, Sony, etc., operate in the red mainly because of other divisions of the corporation (device manufacturing typically). The strange thing is that it sounds like Jim is saying that the gaming divisions more then make up for those loses, i.e. the gaming community is actually not just paying so "at some point a game needs to make money," but also for failing brands in technology. The crazy thing is that Apple, who not only operates in the black but has billions in the bank, seems to be looked down upon for having one of the most widely popular and easy to use store fronts with a mostly health platform for delivering gaming content.
 

Gearhead mk2

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Ashoten said:
This is why I am a PC gamer and Steam is my friend.
Yeah, Steam isn't exactly immune either. But I don't think anyone here is going to listen to my argument. I dared to suggest that Steam wasn't the second coming of Christ, so I'll most likely get burned to a crisp now.
 

Terminate421

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Jim I usually agree with points but most people DIDN'T complain when Iron Man or any other movie tried this sort of thing. All of the sudden a couple big hits feel like trying it and there you go, rage at it.

Also good news, Halo 4 does not do Online passes, as much as it seems not like it, Microsoft cares about how they handle Halo. Why do you think they were so unsure about making a full on movie with it for quite some time? They know not to fuck it up.
 

Aureliano

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I still don't understand where people get this idea of 'making' money from. The only people who make money are people with special paper, ink and printers. It's not like making a sweater. Companies TAKE money. From other people. If companies were willing to say, "You know, sometimes we just have to take more of your money than we were before for the same or less product," I might have something resembling sympathy for their position. At least they'd be honest.
 

shrekfan246

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Gearhead mk2 said:
Ashoten said:
This is why I am a PC gamer and Steam is my friend.
Yeah, Steam isn't exactly immune either. But I don't think anyone here is going to listen to my argument. I dared to suggest that Steam wasn't the second coming of Christ, so I'll most likely get burned to a crisp now.
Note: I hardly ever use Steam if I can help it.

There's a slight difference between advertising free items for Team Fortress 2 (itself now a free-to-play game) alongside preordering other games, and having Mountain Dew sponsor your marketing campaigns.

OT: Good video, Jim, and agreed like usual. It's funny how the companies complaining most often about needing to make money are the ones who make record-breaking sales every year. You know, funny in that "what-the-fuck-is-wrong-with-the-world" sort of way.
 

Blade_125

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Sep 1, 2011
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It's rather amusing that I opened a bottle of Mountain Dew before I started watching this.

Mmmm, you can really taste the hedgehog piss.

This type of bull shit is why I avoid a lot of developers now. I won't buy anything by UBI soft, and I am not sure if I will ever buy from EA again. Of course as more and more companies keep this up, it limits where I can go. Guess I'll have to be more adventurous with the indie games.
 

LazyAza

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I'm eagerly looking forward to the inevitable industry wide crash that happens next gen when budgets are so bloated, development so insanely time consuming and costly and the relentless greed so all encompassing the entire medium collapses on itself. Too many companies and the people running them have grown too arrogant, too money obsessed and they all need a giant reality wakeup boot to the face.
 

IamLEAM1983

Neloth's got swag.
Aug 22, 2011
2,581
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0
Entitled said:
Snip, although it's a good post.
I actually do play indie titles, and considering what I'm working on as a student, I'm definitely not sticking to the Twilight/Fifty Shades modern standards. I'm quite fond of Uplink, I used to play Minecraft with a few friends in a somewhat regular fashion, and I especially like it when small teams release things that break the mould. You've read my post while assuming I had my blinders on and couldn't see past Triple-A development, but that's not the case.

I'm just disappointed that it's come to this, if I have to try and be clearer. We've reached a point where apart for the rare chart-topping indie title, what you're likely to see on top shelves is the same recycled Triple-A material, year after year after year. I'm disappointed that bravery in designing games or interactive experiences hasn't been embraced in better a fashion than it has. I'm missing the SPIRIT of garage developers, and I'd really like to see someone with a Triple-A's budget manage to produce something that won't feel like it's being castrated by an oblivious focus group or marketing execs desperately trying to keep their company aground by producing me-too material.

I'm well aware that innovation isn't unilaterally dead and gone, I know I can reach out to what's done in small and self-published studios or even in places like Newgrounds and Armor Games. I know I still have those options.

What I've been trying to say is that I'd like the Triple-A devs to actually pay attention to what the indies are pulling off. Look at Portal 2 or Team Fortress 2. What's made them succeed isn't their marketing campaign or the fact that one of them switched to Free-to-Play. Valve titles in general tend to prove that there *is* a place for innovation and smart writing and dialogue in Triple-A development. Not every single product needs to cater to the Would-Be Thug or Dude-Bro crowd, or to sports fans who don't mind getting a slightly shinier roster update every year for a full sixty bucks.

The day the big fish do start to understand that, we won't need tie-in marketing campaigns like these. We won't need egregious sequels designed to keep the money flowing. We won't need things like Mass Effect 4 or Halo 4 or even the shift in focus Dragon Age 2 represented.

But, of course, they won't understand. Hollywood appeals to our base emotions and only considers our brains once the Oscar season rolls in. Then, its best pseudo-intellectual efforts tend to revolve around the same tired old themes and tired old tropes disguised as narrative depth, when it's really just another pandering display of profundity. The mainstream industry follows that exact pattern.

It's that divide that's frustrating me. I'd like a gaming culture when I can enjoy something that has the structural means of a summertime explosion-fest and the narrative and scenario-related capabilities of things like Journey or Passage.

LazyAza said:
I'm eagerly looking forward to the inevitable industry wide crash that happens next gen when budgets are so bloated, development so insanely time consuming and costly and the relentless greed so all encompassing the entire medium collapses on itself. Too many companies and the people running them have grown too arrogant, too money obsessed and they all need a giant reality wakeup boot to the face.
Then, of course, the cycle begins anew. The surviving companies in the midst of the Great 2020 Mass Game Extinction Event climb on top of their predecessors' corpses and establish themselves as the leading force. New consoles are spawned, new games are made, some become successful, money is made...

Fast-forward to 2055 or thereabouts, and we have ourselves a third video game crash. Ad infinitum.
 

Jobbie

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Aug 14, 2010
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I say vote with your dollar and support steam. Pick up your favorite titles on PC while paying less and significantly extend the length of your game by user created mods. I picked up 6 games the other day on steam for 15 bucks. You can't beat that.
 

Darknacht

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Snack food makes it "hard find Halo credible as a creative endeavor". This made me laugh.

Jobbie said:
I say vote with your dollar and support steam. Pick up your favorite titles on PC while paying less and significantly extend the length of your game by user created mods. I picked up 6 games the other day on steam for 15 bucks. You can't beat that.
Sure you can, just not on consoles.
 

userwhoquitthesite

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Jul 23, 2009
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This episode made me happy. It's refreshing to hear someone say something OTHER than bullshit

as for the point about soda

When the lids get low and the yawns do go and signal time to sleep
Just give me a tank of the fine old drink that comes from Tennesee
Bottles big and small, flavors for all, be sure to grab a few
Ain't nothin' sweeter than your own 2 liter of the stuff called mountain dew

Skid-ree Idle-diddle dum skid-ree Idle-diddle dum
Skid-ree Idle-dum diddle dum day
Skid-ree Idle-diddle dum skid-ree Idle-diddle dum
Skid-ree Idle-dum diddle dum day

There's a store down the way open all day, twenty-four hours and
for a decent rate, you can buy a crate of the soda in bottles or cans
Now those caffeine pills just give me chills, and that's why I tell you
To stay awake, my thirst i slake with the classic mountain dew

Skid-ree Idle-diddle dum skid-ree Idle-diddle dum
Skid-ree Idle-dum diddle dum day
Skid-ree Idle-diddle dum skid-ree Idle-diddle dum
Skid-ree Idle-dum diddle dum day

Now gaming men and stoner friends, have given their praises high
That lovely sheen of distinctive green, that's made with Yellow 5
It may rot our teeth to the gums beneath, but between both me and you
it's worth the risk for that sweet and brisk refreshing taste of mountain dew

Skid-ree Idle-diddle dum skid-ree Idle-diddle dum
Skid-ree Idle-dum diddle dum day
Skid-ree Idle-diddle dum skid-ree Idle-diddle dum
Skid-ree Idle-dum diddle dum day

When the lids get low and the yawns do go and signal time to sleep
Just give me a tank of the fine old drink that comes from Tennesee
Bottles big and small, flavors for all, be sure to grab a few
Ain't nothin' sweeter than your own 2 liter of the stuff called mountain dew


any fans of the dubliners in the thread?
 

Laughing Man

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Quite a few people seemed to miss the point, he wasn't raging at the fact that games use product placement to generate extra cash, I would have to rewatch the video to confirm this but I think he says he is happy with them to do that. What he was raging at was the general idea that a game by itself, with none of the attached nonsense will not make enough money on it's own to justify it's production and maintenance cost. That the attached bullshit we the consumer have to put up with in the form of day one DLC, Online Passes, god awful DRM and wanky product placement is being justified by the developers as a way to generate the cash they require to make the game profitable.

What he was saying is that a triple AAA title by itself sold at whatever price it is sold at should and for the most part probably is more than enough to make enough cash to turn a profit and that all the crap we have to put up with is not to give the developer his much needed daily bread but just to make them a huge Scrooge McDuck style money bin that they can then swim in.

I also agree with his opinion that if the companies came forward and simply said they do this stuff not to make a break even game but because they are out and out greedy bastards, instead of force feeding us all the bullshit excuses to try and justify the DLC, DRM and other nonsense, then I would have a hell of a lot more respect for them.
 

babinro

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Maybe if Deadspace 3 is sponsored by Pepsi and Stihl tools they'll only need 3 million sales instead of 5 million to keep the franchise going.

"Quick, pick up that durable Stihl power saw and make short work of the necromorph's forearm!"
 

stringtheory

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Dec 18, 2011
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babinro said:
Maybe if Deadspace 3 is sponsored by Pepsi and Stihl tools they'll only need 3 million sales instead of 5 million to keep the franchise going.

"Quick, pick up that durable Stihl power saw and make short work of the necromorph's forearm!"
that's a sponsorship that actually makes sense, what do mountain dew, doritos, and seven eleven have to do with Halo 4 anyway?
 

Nurb

Cynical bastard
Dec 9, 2008
3,078
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Testify! Oh oh oh testify!

Hell yea, I'm glad someone is making a more visible slam about their greed; complainging that used games hurt them, that online hurts them, that a full priced game without day-one DLC hurts them. Fuck them.

This is why I stopped paying for the original xbox live the moment they started charging for DLC... yea, imagine that, all those xbox games had optional content that was free because you already sunk so much money into the system, game, and service. All without ads as well.

And I've talked to people on these forums who were DEFENDING them, actually saying that used games are bad for publishers. It's crazy how the younger gamers are unknowingly being turned into compliant little corporate drones who happily keep shell out money (or their parents' money) for everything.
 

Jimothy Sterling

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ForgottenPr0digy said:
Jimothy Sterling said:
Jandau said:
All this is well and good, but what I want to know is how does Jim know what hedgehog piss tastes like? :p
Hedgehogs can't hold it in when you're trying to suck their little hedgecocks.
are you raping sonic the hedgehog??

@back on topic

I like mountain dew but I don't have 7-11 where I live so I can't get any extra exp or be part of the halo 4 marketing stunt.
And here I thought he only sucked kirbycock!

OT: I just smile and shake my head at the adverts and I havent payed for XBL in a looong time
 

Frank_Sinatra_

Digs Giant Robots
Dec 30, 2008
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lord.jeff said:
I agree with this episode and love it even though you seem to repeat the same points several times.
It just goes to show that this shit in the industry isn't getting fixed.
 

ResonanceSD

Guild Warrior
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Benchmark game of the year? Greg Tito said the same thing about DA2 XD

Also for some reason, I have a sudden urge to go buy Doritos and Mountain Dew.


IIIIVE GONE BLIIIIND!
 

Fappy

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Zachary Amaranth said:
Is it wrong that I want to hug Jim after that?

Nobody should have to suffer through Mountain Dew alone!

Their monetary concerns are kinda...Well, crap.
Aw come on! Mountain Dew isn't that bad.

Though, if Jim hates it that much I can't imagine him ever surviving an entire D&D session.
 

GTwander

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Great fucking episode.
It's like he read my mind, spat out my anger at me, and then convinced me that it was his idea... and I'm all for it. He needs to doppleganger his way into Riccitello's or Kotick's skin and turn those companies into a respectable business. Or perhaps make them cannibalize themselves.

~Also, Mountain Dew is gross, but I will stab the first guy to clown on my Doritos.
 

The Artificially Prolonged

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Jul 15, 2008
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Those who have will always want more. A sad truth but there is little we can do unless there is a unprecedented backlash against this kind of thing.

Also I've never had Mountain Dew, I don't even think they sell it in this country. But if it is awful as it looked then the US can keep it
 

DewMan001

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What's most bullshit about this entire thing is that, well;

I'm Australian, and we get done over with our game prices already. And, thanks to this shameful marketing, I would have to pay $100 for a game that's sponsored by a fucking energy drink!

Now, as mentioned earlier, I am also comfortable with advertising in games if it's done right. The billboards in Prototype advertising DC, whilst a little sketchy, are still understandable. I've been playing Alan Wake, and the advertising in that game, whilst a little obtuse, made sense. It made sense to have the torch made by Energizer and the phone by Verizon because it adds to the reality that the game is trying achieve in the attempt to scare you that much more. But if you're doing this sort of bullshit you better stop or cut the price right down. If Halo 4 is as sponsored as it is, Australians shouldn't have to pay $100 for it. They should pay, at most, $40.
 

seangrafton

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So ya, if/when I ever get a job in the game industry, I'm gonna make a point of just finding a way to get videos like this onto the bosses desk every day. Seriously, this kind of business is just unacceptable.
 

Something Amyss

Aswyng and Amyss
Dec 3, 2008
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Fappy said:
Aw come on! Mountain Dew isn't that bad.

Though, if Jim hates it that much I can't imagine him ever surviving an entire D&D session.
Iactually like Mountain Dew.

Ahh...D&D...Where all my friends called it Orc Piss.
 

Something Amyss

Aswyng and Amyss
Dec 3, 2008
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notfarg said:
So ya, if/when I ever get a job in the game industry, I'm gonna make a point of just finding a way to get videos like this onto the bosses desk every day. Seriously, this kind of business is just unacceptable.
Good chance that'll get you fired. This isn't about them being unaware. It's about them not caring.
 

GTwander

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Zachary Amaranth said:
notfarg said:
So ya, if/when I ever get a job in the game industry, I'm gonna make a point of just finding a way to get videos like this onto the bosses desk every day. Seriously, this kind of business is just unacceptable.
Good chance that'll get you fired. This isn't about them being unaware. It's about them not caring.
Pah-hah!
They care a lot, big guy. They care about MONEY.

Show your boss this vid and he'll start conjuring new ways to rape the consumer with a paint-roller.
 

seangrafton

New member
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Zachary Amaranth said:
Good chance that'll get you fired. This isn't about them being unaware. It's about them not caring.
I'm cool with that. Wouldn't want to continue to work at a place that doesn't let it's employees speak towards it's business practices anyway. And it'd be worth it to spread even the tiniest bit of dissent amongst the masses.
 

Darklupus

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Mar 13, 2010
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The question is "How do we know when a game company has indeed mastered the basics, or at least all of them?"
 

Jimothy Sterling

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Really? Really? Three pages in and no one comments on the "In the hall of the Mountain King" reference?



You know that song is public domain right? Jim you could have used it in an epic "Gaming bullshit" montage.
 

DrunkOnEstus

In the name of Harman...
May 11, 2012
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Excellent episode, Jim. You're getting better and better at what you do and it's always incredibly entertaining.

OT: I think it's the consumers who created the illusion that high-budget games were respected by the industry as an art form, deserving of sanctity and intellectual respect. When Call of Duty can make more money than Hollywood movies and are viewed as money-makers, and Hollywood movies already have happy meal tie-ins and toys, this is no surprise. The upper echelons of EA and Activision started as heads of beauty stores, hedge fund financiers and the like. This is just another business to them that you run like any other business. We may become emotionally attached to the experiences, and continue to call them an art form, but to them the AAA titles will just be considered those boxes with the round discs that put their numbers in the black.

I think that's why even relatively "meh" indie titles can be beloved and supported, because we know that they're made with care and passion, because someone or a small group had a statement to make and that the money goes to continuing their dream of doing what they love to do and have a passion for. It's the biggest shame of "auteur" developers losing their connections with publishers like Kojima has with Konami now. It's where someone with a passion and love for the medium can get the high-level funding to create experiences beyond what the indie realm can do.

Oh, and I genuinely had an out-loud laugh at that "Nathan Drake Footlong picture". Please keep screwing around with MS Paint, because its glorious : )
 

Jimothy Sterling

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psn is free unless you buy psn plus and you get free games and discounts off games or DLC. I wish XBL would do that but nooooooooo MS is too greedy
 

Impluse_101

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Jun 25, 2009
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Well, Now we know what liquid to use for our Japanese Liquid Torture. Mountain Dew!
Occasionally even have it be more than a drop and more a long steam into his mouth.
 

ZexionSephiroth

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Apr 7, 2011
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Jim's right, in fact, he's incredibly right.

I don't think any successful game needs to push so much money grabbing out. But sometimes, the money grab is fun to be a part of if you happen to find some part of it that you'll be willing to pay cash for.

...But saying they "need" money is, like Jim said, pathetic...

Still... It makes me wonder. What if there was a game that parodied all the advertising stuff?

Maybe throughout the game, the disgruntled Protagonist will be stopped by some guy and told, "Hey, you mind advertising this stuff for us?" and then... yeah, muses about how big a sword he's going to buy with that money while his companions are sighing and saying "What's wrong with the one you have? It can already kill behemoths in one swing!" to which the protagonist just grins, with a look like a kid on Christmas... possibly staring at some impossibly cool weapon.

...yeah... my mind is weird.
 

TrevHead

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Jim hits the nail on the head! It's always the AAAs acting the poor man while the little guys are ofthen the worse off. Thats why I have zero problem buying DLC for more niche games like CAVE shmups.

But what really pisses me off is how much MS and Sony rape smaller devs with QA charges and the gamer picture / avatar racket on 360.

Charging for patching is the worst (MS / Song charging 40k each with Ninty 10k for the wii) since those free patches get used up just after the launch to fix major bugs asap, but minor bugs or the need to have ongoing ballancing patches for cometative games is often ignored, and since many games are multiplatform thats alot of money for a single patch.

Skullgirls is the worst i've seen, been a highly competative fighter it needs constant patches, but because the devs can't afford 80k a pop they keep on delaying it while they try to fix everything in one go, but because of this ppl have stopped playing until the patch is launched. A PC version is planned the one platform where patching is free, but the sickening thing is that most likly the devs won't make use of it because of the need to keep all versions the same.

The game has some upcoming DLC characters, atleast they'll beable to patch the game with no extra cost, but no doubt they'll need another patch after that to ballance them in properlly.

Yeah fuck charging for patches ruining games especially indies
 

Namechangeday

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Microsoft is the last company that needs to make more money off the money they're already making. Anyway, I laughed everytime you said "at some point, games need to make money."

Also, Fun Fact: Mountain Dew is one of the most acidic soft drinks out there :)
 

Terrible Opinions

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DrunkOnEstus said:
It's the biggest shame of "auteur" developers losing their connections with publishers like Kojima has with Konami now. It's where someone with a passion and love for the medium can get the high-level funding to create experiences beyond what the indie realm can do.
That sort of thing has a nasty habit of backfiring, unfortunately.

John Romero felt that Id Software was holding him back. He founded his own studio, Ion Storm, with the motto "Design is Law", and staffed it with some of the best developers you could find. He would finally be free to make the epic story-driven fantasy-FPS he had always wanted, and John Carmack could suck it down. Except that epic story-driven fantasy-FPS was was an overly-ambitious piece of shit despite its constant delays. While other Ion Storm teams released quality games like Deus Ex and the ill-fated Anachronox, the company folded a few years later.

Denis Dyack had similar beliefs. Though his company, Silicon Knights, had had great success under Nintendo's wing, he believed that they would only truly reach their potential by cutting ties in favour of a more hands-off publisher. Their track record was strong - Legacy of Kain, Eternal Darkness, Twin Snakes - and they attracted many-a-suitor. And then it turned out that with only Dyack at the helm, they couldn't make a game for shit. Product quality plummeted, money got pissed away on dead-end vanity projects, and the company now more closely resembles a rotting deer carcass on the side of an Ontario highway than the heavy-hitter it was only a console generation ago.
 

I.Muir

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They won't ever admit that
You know why because some idiots still actually believe it
That's free good publicity from their crowds of mindless drones
 
Apr 24, 2008
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I appreciate Jim's stance.

So...how long do we have before the Kill-Cam is brought to us by the good people at Sprite? What better way to refresh yourself while the barrels smoke and the dust settles?
 

viranimus

Thread killer
Nov 20, 2009
4,952
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How dare someone say something so blasphemous, So vile, So supportive of piracy, So hurting the poor developers, WHY wont someone think of the develo...... wait what?, Sterling said it? Why Absolutely Jim you are dead on the money, I have always thought this practice was reprehensible and game companies were being unreasonable looking at us like piggy banks. Thank God for you.


Yip, this thread, it has it.
 

Ashoten

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Gearhead mk2 said:
Ashoten said:
This is why I am a PC gamer and Steam is my friend.
Yeah, Steam isn't exactly immune either. But I don't think anyone here is going to listen to my argument. I dared to suggest that Steam wasn't the second coming of Christ, so I'll most likely get burned to a crisp now.
I never buy the hats or any stuff like that. I just really like to abundance of cheap indie games and regular sales they have. No waiting in line at game stop and I don't have to pay full retail if I'm wiling to wait for a game to go on sale.
 

likalaruku

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How pissed would you have been if that Uncharted Subway commercial hadn't been a commercial at all but integrated into the actual game?
 
Oct 27, 2010
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I noticed something was up when I ordered pizza last weekend.... The Mountain Dew Bottle had the Halo4 logo up at the top part of the label. I wouldn't even had noticed it if it weren't for my bf pointing it out. GET OUT OF MY HEAD.
 

Wolcik

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Loved the writting on this one - especially the comedic repetition of the quote :)
 

weirdee

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Apr 11, 2011
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I think while Steam does similar things, it by no means actively screws you over when you pay them, besides the connectivity setup which so far does not feel like torture or costs me extra money to use, or puts ads for things other than the games they are already selling.

I'm not spending extra, and they always have sales, which is great and optional and I am not charged anything for looking or having an account.
 

DrunkOnEstus

In the name of Harman...
May 11, 2012
1,712
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The Crotch said:
Oh I won't deny that it's certainly a double edged sword. While the process gave us MGS, Killer 7 & No More Heroes, Fable (that's...probably in the middle of this discussion), Resident Evil, Zone of the Enders...you get my drift. But the FPS-that-must-not-be-named you mentioned above is enough to counteract all that : )
 

Jimothy Sterling

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You know I used to be a hardcore Sony fanboy, but after playing Halo on friends Xboxes so many times, I'm actually a fan of the series (or at least the multiplayer, I don't get much opportunities to play through the story when I'm on a friend's console). However much I like the series though I'm not getting a 360. Why? Because Xbox charges for it's online service. That's bad enough but then they also put ads on it anyway and I just feel kind of insulted.

Every website I know of that has a paid subscription members model has no ads for the paying members but not Microsoft.

You know if this game were on the PS3, I'd gladly get one at launch, maybe wait outside if I also had a car.

Anyway these people saying they need the money is pathetic, it's like the MPAA trying every argument they can draw at out of their ass to justify SOPA or shutting down Megaupload. It's just sad.
 

immortalfrieza

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notfarg said:
Zachary Amaranth said:
Good chance that'll get you fired. This isn't about them being unaware. It's about them not caring.
I'm cool with that. Wouldn't want to continue to work at a place that doesn't let it's employees speak towards it's business practices anyway. And it'd be worth it to spread even the tiniest bit of dissent amongst the masses.
Then you'd better just start up your own video game development company, because with that attitude you'll never find a job in the video game industry anywhere, ever. Don't get me wrong, it's a good attitude to have, just not one that any big worthwhile company in the VG industry will put up with.

OT: Some of these ridiculous, greedy, moneygrubbing practices exist in other industries, but only in the video game industry are they so blatant about it. The other industries are usually smart enough not to piss of their customers by flanting the fact that they're screwing them over, but the VG industry practically walks around wearing a giant "F#@K OUR CUSTOMERS" sign all the time.
 

Fearzone

Boyz! Boyz! Boyz!
Dec 3, 2008
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Somebody needed to say that.

Don't people ever get tired of being tools?

No, I guess not.
 

Metalrocks

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yeah, they always try to find new ways to make money. they know younger players will fall for it and beg their parents to waste their money.
and its pretty obvious why other brands will never support smaller companies. because they dont make that much money as a AAA of course.
"money". thats all they think about. they dont care about the rest.
 

luckycharms8282

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I completely agree, Jim. I feel like Ive been saying it for years. They are always trying to find more ways to increase that profit margin.
 

godofslack

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May 8, 2011
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I for one know that it's sometimes difficult to buy that third golden yacht if you don't include online passes.
 

triggrhappy94

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Apr 24, 2010
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I'm surprised no one's mentioned some of the steps Mountain Dew and Dorritos have taken in their deal with Halo 4. Both companies have reworked their formulas so that when eaten together you lose 4 years (as per Halo 4) off your life expectancy.
This however does not come without its compaints from snack fans. Many are upset that Mountain Dew would abandon its original formula so freely. Its original formula, of course, when consumed not only shorten life expectancy but also added the phone number of the nearest meth dealer to your phone's contact list.

PunkRex said:
I wanna know what game devs are ACTUALLY doing with all this money, anyone know of a show/site that lists expenses, etc? Im generally curious.
 

kburns10

You Gots to Chill
Sep 10, 2012
276
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Microsoft is starting to piss me off with their online service! I actually like Xbox Live, but telling me it's a PRIVILEGE to hand my money over to them to play online, rubs me the wrong way!
 

algalon

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Videogames are like any other business - if the current iteration doesn't make more money than the previous, it's considered a net loss even though profit is still being made. It's a disgusting practice that's killing economies around the world simply due to greed. Gotta do better than last year or the C.E.O. will get angry and start laying people off. So when a game isn't expected to do as well as a previous version, perhaps due to a new development team, external revenue streams are implemented and you get dew in your shooter. At least MS is up front about their bullshit so everyone can get a good whiff, unlike other companies and most politicians.
 

Aeonknight

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Was a good episode until he brought piracy into it.

Please don't try to rationalize "eh they make enough money" as a justification for wanting something for nothing. As an arguement, it's just as paper thin and shitty as used toilet paper.

Basic economics principles. Something pirates like to pretend don't exist and will forevermore try to explain/rationalize away. If you're going to ask AAA developers to admit they're greedy, you should ask no less of pirates.
 

Jimothy Sterling

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Apr 18, 2011
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Did follow the entire DoritoGate/Gaming Jurnalizm affair and wrote down its milestones over here:
http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/9.391972-Gaming-Journalism-Drama-DoritoGate-Edition

Regarding Marketing, this is what started it all:

And this was utterly hilarious, if it wasn't so close to what is actually happening:
 

Jimothy Sterling

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Apr 18, 2011
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Aeonknight said:
Was a good episode until he brought piracy into it.

Please don't try to rationalize "eh they make enough money" as a justification for wanting something for nothing. As an arguement, it's just as paper thin and shitty as used toilet paper.

Basic economics principles. Something pirates like to pretend don't exist and will forevermore try to explain/rationalize away. If you're going to ask AAA developers to admit they're greedy, you should ask no less of pirates.
There's other "principles" that they and you are disregarding, for instance that brand awareness grows the more people come in contact with something and are talking about it, which developers are starting to make use of:
http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2012/09/08/wait-whys-pirate-bay-promoting-an-indie-game/
http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2012/10/27/hotline-miami-aids-pirates-instead-of-murdering-them/
http://torrentfreak.com/indie-game-devs-post-pirated-game-on-the-pirate-bay-110909/

Or that the more people play a game, the more people might be into that certain type of game or even the same brand, after all you don't scream "PIRACY!" when you have a friend come over and play a game on your console or lend him the game either despite him not paying any money for it (which might make him want to buy the Sequel or even the game himself), although they are trying to make that impossible too with the likes of "Online Passes" & other DRM mechanisms.

As he said, it's rather obvious and telling that only the biggest brand holders and greedy corporations are harping on about how both Piracy and Used Games are destroying the video game market/industry, while Indie developers don't mind or even encourage it.

I did a rather extensive write-up on the issue a while back: http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/9.338788-Piracy-Its-not-a-Black-White-Issue
 

Jimothy Sterling

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So THAT'S what this fuss over Mtn Dew is all about!

Seriously. I had not even noticed that it was tied to Halo 4. My guess is that being in AUSTRALIA had something to do with it.

Also: I quite liked Mtn dew before the stopped selling the original and went to exclusively the shitty "energized" blend
 

Jimothy Sterling

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Apr 18, 2011
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It took a long time, but I've really started to respect and value Jim's videos. This one's a very strong addition to his omnibus.
 

Aaron Sylvester

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It seems the more money you make the greater your lust for even more increases and you seem to want to hang onto every dollar ever more, regardless of how many heads you need to cut off in the process and regardless of how much you have to whine about things being 'bad'. Sigh.
 

JEBWrench

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Apr 23, 2009
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Well, at least this was one rant that didn't imply that wanting to make more money was somehow bad.

Eventually people might start to understand that they don't have to buy all the things to enjoy something.
 

Sergey Sund

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May 20, 2012
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Been drinking energy drinks of the Monster-brand (Europe, Germany, dunno if you know it).
It has reached comedicaly hilarious marketing scemes, wanting desperately to hog their guarana-infused taurin-coffein-mix especially to gamers.
Beside the normal "Classic", there are "Khaos", "Ripper", and "Assault".
"Assault", for fuck's sake!
THIS ENERGY DRINK: SO HARDCORE - IT WILL ASSAULT YOUR ORGANS!
And when you have enough of those, and you wake up after a binge-gaming night with a massive headache and you have to go to work, you can buy their tea-infused version called
"Rehab".
If you're wondering: Guarana is, aparently, some form of liana out of the South American jungle. Like - what the fuck???
I guess that sums it up pretty good: WTF?
Mountain Dew, Red Bull, Monster - these are energy drinks containing the same taurin/coffein mix as every other energy drink on the market.
There is a new one in my store called "Relentless". Looking forward to their brand diversification :/
It's funny that for one 0,5 litre can of any of the above I get one 1,5 litre bottle of off-brand, cheap "Booster".
 

jdogtwodolla

phbbhbbhpbhphbhpbttttt......
Feb 12, 2009
732
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0
Scrumpmonkey said:
Really? Really? Three pages in and no one comments on the "In the hall of the Mountain King" reference?



You know that song is public domain right? Jim you could have used it in an epic "Gaming bullshit" montage.
Actually, I was thinking of this one.

I love your titles Jim.
 

Spearmaster

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Mar 10, 2010
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Why not just put NASCAR type stickers all over master chief's armor? If your gonna do a shameless cash crab go all the way Microsoft.

Thank you Jim for giving this behavior the maximum shit it deserves. I don't mind them charging for DLC if they created content or even the little extras like avatar gear because I don't have to buy it. Selling out your game launch to corporate sponsors because your AAA franchise cant make money...its insulting. Good thing I had no plans of buying Halo 4
 

blackrave

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Mar 7, 2012
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With every new bullshit I hear I think more and more that returning to piracy may be a good thing
Few companies to to pirate- Activision, EA and Ubisoft
You know, just to make point that their DRM is useless
Not that I'm interested in their games, God no
(recently I'm stuck with Bethesda, Square Enix and Valve- and I gladly pay for their games)
Last game I was interested in from EA was MassEffect3, from Activision was Battlezone2 and from Ubisoft was Prince of Persia
And I think I will start to ignore these companies from now on
 

r_phix

New member
Mar 12, 2012
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And now I want to try Montain Dew...
I resisted for a long time since I am in New Zealand, but watching your video makes me want to try !!!
You are working for them !!!

Well done Montain Dew marketing team !
 

geizr

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Oct 9, 2008
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Gods aloft, man! Just stop buying it. Move on to games that don't pull the BS maneuvers, either that or get out of gaming and find something else to do that is less likely to give you high blood-pressure and hypertension. It's just not worth it.

I, myself, gave up on Triple-A gaming some time ago. Just too much bullshit mixed in with it to be palatable. In fact, I'm finding myself spending ever increasing time board-gaming, pen-and-paper RPGing (in person with real friends), listening to music, watching movies, and reading some new manga and sci-fi/fantasy books. As time progresses, I want to try to get back into drawing and reading back through my old physics books and doing some of the exercises for fun. Yes, video-gaming has become so loaded with bullshit and worthless garbage that it's pushing me back to having a life rather than spend my money and time on video-games. They're just becoming less worth it, and videos like this simply confirm the path going forward; video-games, for me, are simply no longer fun for the cost and level of effort required.

EDIT: added the "for me" in the last statement to emphasize that this is only my opinion and does not reflect the perspective or feelings of others.
 

maximara

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Jul 13, 2008
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DVS BSTrD said:
If only they advertised Thousand Island, then we could call it crossdressing
And Jim how do you know what hedgehog piss tastes like? -_^
And I thought my joke in World of Warcraft about having a class perfectly suited to dealing with the Sha (the Sha-man class) was bad.
 

Jimothy Sterling

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I think this might have been a bit of a missed opportunity to attack the obscenely bloated budgets that AAA titles have.[footnote] Although he may have covered this already. I'm not a regular viewer, so I wouldn't know.[/footnote]
 

Proverbial Jon

Not evil, just mildly malevolent
Nov 10, 2009
2,093
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Jim has systematically undone any brand positivity that the Halo 4 Mountain Dew promotions had intended for their drinks. I approve!

I'm not even sure if we have MD in the UK (I've certainly never seen it) so this entire promotional tie has passed completely over my head. Thankfully.
 

Wesley Brannock

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Sep 7, 2010
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It's about time someone said this. I like the Halo series but could we please stop acting like it's the best game ever as well as this stupid advertising crap.

 

ProGrasTiNation

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Aeonknight said:
Was a good episode until he brought piracy into it.

Please don't try to rationalize "eh they make enough money" as a justification for wanting something for nothing. As an arguement, it's just as paper thin and shitty as used toilet paper.

Basic economics principles. Something pirates like to pretend don't exist and will forevermore try to explain/rationalize away. If you're going to ask AAA developers to admit they're greedy, you should ask no less of pirates.
You might hate pirates but the sensible ones like me use it as a means to weed out trash games & give money were its due.
Piracy is a good thing,america wouldn't exist today in its current state without piracy.If the US didn't copy the germans research they wouldn't have had a space program,if they didn't copy...mmm..the list is huge & growing every day.
Piracy only hurts the greedy corporations & governments that think were all on this planet to make them rich while wasting our very short lives buying every piece of crap they can think of to sell to us.
The game industry should be run by gamers for gamers(indie games rock)not money hungry ass clowns that are basicly the same people who have ruined the music & movie industry to the point that they're actually attacking the internet,were the mpaa think they can bring anyone in the world to their court for fines that no person ever could pay.
& i suppose to come back on point for this fine video by jim is to stop listening to these billion dollar companies when they cry losses & open your eyes to the daylight robbery that they indulge in every day!
Your's sincerely A proud pirate/human
 

Aeonknight

New member
Apr 8, 2011
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ProGrasTiNation said:
Aeonknight said:
Was a good episode until he brought piracy into it.

Please don't try to rationalize "eh they make enough money" as a justification for wanting something for nothing. As an arguement, it's just as paper thin and shitty as used toilet paper.

Basic economics principles. Something pirates like to pretend don't exist and will forevermore try to explain/rationalize away. If you're going to ask AAA developers to admit they're greedy, you should ask no less of pirates.
You might hate pirates but the sensible ones like me use it as a means to weed out trash games & give money were its due.
Piracy is a good thing,america wouldn't exist today in its current state without piracy.If the US didn't copy the germans research they wouldn't have had a space program,if they didn't copy...mmm..the list is huge & growing every day.
Piracy only hurts the greedy corporations & governments that think were all on this planet to make them rich while wasting our very short lives buying every piece of crap they can think of to sell to us.
The game industry should be run by gamers for gamers(indie games rock)not money hungry ass clowns that are basicly the same people who have ruined the music & movie industry to the point that they're actually attacking the internet,were the mpaa think they can bring anyone in the world to their court for fines that no person ever could pay.
& i suppose to come back on point for this fine video by jim is to stop listening to these billion dollar companies when they cry losses & open your eyes to the daylight robbery that they indulge in every day!
Your's sincerely A proud pirate/human
A few problems with your arguements.

Stating that the US wouldn't be where it is without copying technological achievements is nowhere near the same thing as an individual obtaining a product that costs money, for free. Not even in the same ball park, I could go on to further say "2 wrongs don't make a right" and all but the point is already made and refuted. Next!

You can hate on them greedy ass clowns all you want. No one said you had to love em. But it's not about like/dislike. It's about putting in what's due, what YOU owe them for enjoying the fruits of their labor. It's a pretty basic concept: they did work, you choose to pay and enjoy or not to pay them for it and go without.

Picture a customer service job. imagine if every time someone decided "meh I want your product for free because ", you took a pay cut as a result.
That's what's happening here. I'm not saying you're putting them on the street, but at the end of the day it's money they earned. If you don't think they deserve it, fine. But then you don't deserve the game.

It's funny you mention indie games, because people pirate those too. Piracy isn't some righteous cause you like to delude yourself into believing. It's greed, the same greed you harp on corporate assclowns about.

Now to add some perspective. Again I'm not so jaded as to think that these corporations are the victims they scream to be. They're doing pretty well, and if piracy was as damaging as they like to act sometimes this industry would've died forever ago. But again, it's not about "meh they can take it". They can, but they shouldn't have to.

I could go on but meh I already know the escapists' stance on piracy, even if mods do try to censor it.

Sincerely, the collateral damage to your little feud with "the man", aka the legit consumer. Human too I guess.
 

DustyDrB

Made of ticky tacky
Jan 19, 2010
8,365
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0
JarinArenos said:
I'm still waiting for the kickstarter revolution to really bear fruit. In another year or two, a few of the biggest ones (Wasteland 2, etc) will have borne fruit, and we'll see whether their success/failure will have a major impact on the gaming industry.
The Banner Saga releases this month. A beta version of the game (The Banner Saga Factions) is already out for backers. Then there's FTL and Guns of Icarus. The fruits are already arriving.
 

JarinArenos

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Jan 31, 2012
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DustyDrB said:
JarinArenos said:
I'm still waiting for the kickstarter revolution to really bear fruit. In another year or two, a few of the biggest ones (Wasteland 2, etc) will have borne fruit, and we'll see whether their success/failure will have a major impact on the gaming industry.
The Banner Saga releases this month. A beta version of the game (The Banner Saga Factions) is already out for backers. Then there's FTL and Guns of Icarus. The fruits are already arriving.
This is true, though I'd argue that those are small and very niche games (I have no interest in either, but that's just genre preference). I'm speaking mostly of the major $1m+ projects that really brought kickstarter all this publicity in the games industry.
 

ProGrasTiNation

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Aeonknight said:
ProGrasTiNation said:
Aeonknight said:
Was a good episode until he brought piracy into it.

Please don't try to rationalize "eh they make enough money" as a justification for wanting something for nothing. As an arguement, it's just as paper thin and shitty as used toilet paper.

Basic economics principles. Something pirates like to pretend don't exist and will forevermore try to explain/rationalize away. If you're going to ask AAA developers to admit they're greedy, you should ask no less of pirates.
You might hate pirates but the sensible ones like me use it as a means to weed out trash games & give money were its due.
Piracy is a good thing,america wouldn't exist today in its current state without piracy.If the US didn't copy the germans research they wouldn't have had a space program,if they didn't copy...mmm..the list is huge & growing every day.
Piracy only hurts the greedy corporations & governments that think were all on this planet to make them rich while wasting our very short lives buying every piece of crap they can think of to sell to us.
The game industry should be run by gamers for gamers(indie games rock)not money hungry ass clowns that are basicly the same people who have ruined the music & movie industry to the point that they're actually attacking the internet,were the mpaa think they can bring anyone in the world to their court for fines that no person ever could pay.
& i suppose to come back on point for this fine video by jim is to stop listening to these billion dollar companies when they cry losses & open your eyes to the daylight robbery that they indulge in every day!
Your's sincerely A proud pirate/human
A few problems with your arguements.

Stating that the US wouldn't be where it is without copying technological achievements is nowhere near the same thing as an individual obtaining a product that costs money, for free. Not even in the same ball park, I could go on to further say "2 wrongs don't make a right" and all but the point is already made and refuted. Next!

You can hate on them greedy ass clowns all you want. No one said you had to love em. But it's not about like/dislike. It's about putting in what's due, what YOU owe them for enjoying the fruits of their labor. It's a pretty basic concept: they did work, you choose to pay and enjoy or not to pay them for it and go without.

Picture a customer service job. imagine if every time someone decided "meh I want your product for free because ", you took a pay cut as a result.
That's what's happening here. I'm not saying you're putting them on the street, but at the end of the day it's money they earned. If you don't think they deserve it, fine. But then you don't deserve the game.

It's funny you mention indie games, because people pirate those too. Piracy isn't some righteous cause you like to delude yourself into believing. It's greed, the same greed you harp on corporate assclowns about.

Now to add some perspective. Again I'm not so jaded as to think that these corporations are the victims they scream to be. They're doing pretty well, and if piracy was as damaging as they like to act sometimes this industry would've died forever ago. But again, it's not about "meh they can take it". They can, but they shouldn't have to.

I could go on but meh I already know the escapists' stance on piracy, even if mods do try to censor it.

Sincerely, the collateral damage to your little feud with "the man", aka the legit consumer. Human too I guess.
Ill hold strong on my US statement because copying is copying simple as that,& its not the publishers who deserve the $$$$ its the devs which are at the bottom of ladder making very little just like real actors & real musicians(& its not because of piracy).
I don't see piracy as a righteous cause,its a simple statement to the greed that now lives with us in every industry.
Im not on this planet to spend my live throwing money at get rich quick schemes that the corporations that control our $$ entertainment $$ are so very fond of.
And yes indie games get pirated to "duh" but they also get 80%-100% of the money they make because they publish the games themselves which i support as much as i can,also i donate to mod devs so i would say im not greedy,i just make sure my money goes to were it deserves.

You actually think my actions hurt you "the legit customer"?lol
Everyone buying ?50-60/$70-90 games are the ones hurting the legit customer,if you buy overpriced dlc you hurt "the legit customer" & must importantly by supporting theses greedy corporations you hurt the devs they use & abuse to pump out the shit they pump!
In closing as long as there's human on this planet so will piracy & maybe when we finally rid ourselfs of the need for money & greed you'll see the light!
 

Aeonknight

New member
Apr 8, 2011
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ProGrasTiNation said:
Ill hold strong on my US statement because copying is copying simple as that,& its not the publishers who deserve the $$$$ its the devs which are at the bottom of ladder making very little just like real actors & real musicians(& its not because of piracy).
I don't see piracy as a righteous cause,its a simple statement to the greed that now lives with us in every industry.
Im not on this planet to spend my live throwing money at get rich quick schemes that the corporations that control our $$ entertainment $$ are so very fond of.
And yes indie games get pirated to "duh" but they also get 80%-100% of the money they make because they publish the games themselves which i support as much as i can,also i donate to mod devs so i would say im not greedy,i just make sure my money goes to were it deserves.

You actually think my actions hurt you "the legit customer"?lol
Everyone buying ?50-60/$70-90 games are the ones hurting the legit customer,if you buy overpriced dlc you hurt "the legit customer" & must importantly by supporting theses greedy corporations you hurt the devs they use & abuse to pump out the shit they pump!
In closing as long as there's human on this planet so will piracy & maybe when we finally rid ourselfs of the need for money & greed you'll see the light!
I actually had a whole other mini-essay typed up and ready for you, calling out a few more flaws in your arguement (and how the "buying games legally hurts myself in the end" doesn't make sense. At all.), but I'd rather let Extra Credits do the talking.


If you'd like to continue beyond this point we may as well take it to messages, already derailed jim's thread enough.
 

ProGrasTiNation

New member
Jul 5, 2009
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0
Aeonknight said:
ProGrasTiNation said:
Ill hold strong on my US statement because copying is copying simple as that,& its not the publishers who deserve the $$$$ its the devs which are at the bottom of ladder making very little just like real actors & real musicians(& its not because of piracy).
I don't see piracy as a righteous cause,its a simple statement to the greed that now lives with us in every industry.
Im not on this planet to spend my live throwing money at get rich quick schemes that the corporations that control our $$ entertainment $$ are so very fond of.
And yes indie games get pirated to "duh" but they also get 80%-100% of the money they make because they publish the games themselves which i support as much as i can,also i donate to mod devs so i would say im not greedy,i just make sure my money goes to were it deserves.

You actually think my actions hurt you "the legit customer"?lol
Everyone buying ?50-60/$70-90 games are the ones hurting the legit customer,if you buy overpriced dlc you hurt "the legit customer" & must importantly by supporting theses greedy corporations you hurt the devs they use & abuse to pump out the shit they pump!
In closing as long as there's human on this planet so will piracy & maybe when we finally rid ourselfs of the need for money & greed you'll see the light!
I actually had a whole other mini-essay typed up and ready for you, calling out a few more flaws in your arguement (and how the "buying games legally hurts myself in the end" doesn't make sense. At all.), but I'd rather let Extra Credits do the talking.


If you'd like to continue beyond this point we may as well take it to messages, already derailed jim's thread enough.
Why bother writing an essay & then not post?
And i say buying full priced games not paying for them in general,sorry should have made that clearer.
Also i dont think were hijacking a thread,its about corporate greed and the main advocates against piracy are the same companies jims calling out to be manipulative greedy liars.
 

schwitz

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Sep 30, 2012
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Easily one of his best videos yet, I agree completely with this advertising crap. When the game industry was first starting, 20 years ago, it was acceptable. Now its just annoying and a blatant rip-off.
 

nexus

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May 30, 2012
440
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Yes.

Buy Halo 4, and get berated by pre-pubescent racists and fiends. When you're not being emasculated, chomp down some genetically modified corn chips laden with monosodium-gluatamate and synthetic food dyes derived from tar sludge. Wash it down with some brominated vegetable oil and diabetes.

The ticket price is $60, and access to your brain cell holocaust will require a subscription fee.
 

Beautiful End

New member
Feb 15, 2011
1,755
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"I only got clam juice and Mountain Dew."
"Ewwwww! Gimme the clam juice!"
-Homer Simpson

So once again, I agree with Jim.
 

Sonic Doctor

Time Lord / Whack-A-Newbie!
Jan 9, 2010
3,042
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0
Milanezi said:
I slept through most of the episode, but I heard something about Mountain Dew... I like Mountain Dew... But sleeping is better.
It about made me fall asleep as well. While I have agreed with Jim on some things, this episode wasn't really good.

It was a bunch of complaining about something that can easily be ignored. If companies want to run such promotional campaigns, let them. People that don't want to take part, don't have to.

Besides, I like Mountain Dew and Doritos and I normally get them promotion or no. So, the Halo 4 promotion was just an added bonus for getting things I normally get. If I didn't like those products, but I still liked Halo 4, I would have ignored the promotion.

Really this episode felt like a filler type, like a "I can't think of what to talk about, so I will talk about this even though it really doesn't effect anything, but I know there are people that eat this kind of stuff up because they think it is a real problem" kind of thing.
 

Coffeejack

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Oct 1, 2012
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I saw a video of someone mixing the Halo 4 Doritos with the Halo 4 Mountain Dew. They were sick. I almost followed. That stuff looks rank.