Jimquisition: Let's End the FPS Sausage-fest
- Thread starter Jimothy Sterling
- Start date
What I meant is making games that don't try their hardest to scare away women from playing it. I mean there is a commercial for Ninja Gaiden 2 (I think...) which basically says: BOOBS! LOOK AT THE BOOBS! If I was a woman I would never buy the game, since they don't respect women, why should women respect the game. It invalidates all the merits the game may have for a female player.Mylinkay Asdara said:
But still some women play Gears of War, because while the game is incredibly macho, it doesn't offend women, and the merits it has can still be appreciated.
Basically treat all people with the respect they deserve and you can have more sales. This is why games with a lot of sexual advertising tend to sell less, no one except teenage like those ads, you are disrespecting everyone if that's your sales pitch.
Captcha: "ladies, first"
I see, and agree to Mr. Sterling's point. But I really don't give a hoot what gender I play as. In fact I rather enjoy playing as the opposite gender. Especially if the game is very generic.
I don't understand this video, or why Jim feels qualified to speak of issues of gender at all when he puts dramatic misconceptions on display every time he does. One of the premises is that the lack of women is unrealistic, even though the reason there are so few of them is because that's realistic?
There are tons of women in fantasy and sci-fi games, since with magic, augmentations, or the inherent suspension of disbelief that accompanies anything set in either of those settings, that the genders have different physical attributes doesn't really matter all that much anymore. When my character can headbutt a krogan into submission, even though it lacks the weight required to even nudge a huge creature like that, then it's clear that all pretense at realism has gone out the door long ago.
In contemporary settings it really does matter, though, for the sake of the feeling of authenticity the game instills. And, like, because the institutions presented (or mirrored) in these games are that way in reality.
There are tons of women in fantasy and sci-fi games, since with magic, augmentations, or the inherent suspension of disbelief that accompanies anything set in either of those settings, that the genders have different physical attributes doesn't really matter all that much anymore. When my character can headbutt a krogan into submission, even though it lacks the weight required to even nudge a huge creature like that, then it's clear that all pretense at realism has gone out the door long ago.
In contemporary settings it really does matter, though, for the sake of the feeling of authenticity the game instills. And, like, because the institutions presented (or mirrored) in these games are that way in reality.
I know they said that Fall of Cybertron wouldn't have female transformers for alot of the reasons this video disagreed with, but honestly I'm fine with that. I realize female transformer characters were made to appeal to the female audience, but they don't make sense. They don't reproduce like organics do, thus there is no point to having two different genders, which always bothered me when I saw a character like Arcee. (I will admit Arcee is done well and written well in Transformers: Prime, but that doesn't change the fact that the gender differences make not sense with the robots) I keep wanting Shockwave to burst in and scream that it's illogical.
Plus, let's be honest, I don't believe Transformers have many female fans anyway, even with the female robots. I recall seeing a single youtube comment where the comment mentioned making a "fan-girl scream" but that's the only evidence I've found. Plus, I'd take the insecticons and dinobots for customization options over a female gender any day, and not because I'm sexist, but because, unlike adding another gender, insecticons and dinobots can really help spice up the gameplay.
My point is, I don't want complaints from people about Fall of Cybertron lacking female characters.
Plus, let's be honest, I don't believe Transformers have many female fans anyway, even with the female robots. I recall seeing a single youtube comment where the comment mentioned making a "fan-girl scream" but that's the only evidence I've found. Plus, I'd take the insecticons and dinobots for customization options over a female gender any day, and not because I'm sexist, but because, unlike adding another gender, insecticons and dinobots can really help spice up the gameplay.
My point is, I don't want complaints from people about Fall of Cybertron lacking female characters.
First reaction to the opening: SWEET ZOMBIE JESUS! Jim in drag!
The rest: Although I don't play female characters as I'm one of those guys you mentioned who is just more comfortable playing a male character, I still think it's strange that anyone would exclude female characters. Blacklight as you mentioned was a good example. I have yet to notice any difference in gameplay between male and female characters so the "Balancing and hit box" arguments are just shit.
The rest: Although I don't play female characters as I'm one of those guys you mentioned who is just more comfortable playing a male character, I still think it's strange that anyone would exclude female characters. Blacklight as you mentioned was a good example. I have yet to notice any difference in gameplay between male and female characters so the "Balancing and hit box" arguments are just shit.
Before:
I'll be honest: before reading the description i was hoping this was going to be a discussion on moving away from shooters in general.
After:
That wig is terrible with that dress. You're bad and you should feel bad >=(
... Uh, i mean, You're right as always. Thank god for you.
I'll be honest: before reading the description i was hoping this was going to be a discussion on moving away from shooters in general.
After:
That wig is terrible with that dress. You're bad and you should feel bad >=(
... Uh, i mean, You're right as always. Thank god for you.
God is an all-powerful being. If she wanted to be a guy, he could make himself a girl at any time she wanted. Heck, he could probably switch her gender in the middle of a sentence and nobody would notice that he'd changed his gender at all. Bet it'd be fun to watch the puny mortals change between 'she and he' in the middle of a paragraph when talking about her.ex275w said:
I think the outrage over not having female characters is easier for the companies to deal with instead of the outrage of putting female characters in a video game and having them get violently killed.
It's a catch 22 really. The only way western culture allows female characters in video games are:
A) Snarky, sarcastic love interests
B) Scientists or super skilled side characters
C) Dishing out violence towards monsters or male characters
We're not quite at the point where companies and social-political groups are comfortable putting in female soldiers in a AAA major title like COD and letting you blast their heads or limbs off.
They're still used for emotional impact like in SpecOPs: The Line when they die. "My god, you didn't just kill any civilian, you killed a WOMAN and a kid!" as if just a group of civillians wasn't bad enough. Or hell, a father and son even.
Female characters recieving (real-world warzone-like) violence is still a no-no (Tomb Raider trailer?), so don't expect equal representation for some time. Though you'll probably see that before a story with a male character and primary male love interest rather than just an RPG option.
Also: Does Jim live next door to Pee-wee's playhouse?
It's a catch 22 really. The only way western culture allows female characters in video games are:
A) Snarky, sarcastic love interests
B) Scientists or super skilled side characters
C) Dishing out violence towards monsters or male characters
We're not quite at the point where companies and social-political groups are comfortable putting in female soldiers in a AAA major title like COD and letting you blast their heads or limbs off.
They're still used for emotional impact like in SpecOPs: The Line when they die. "My god, you didn't just kill any civilian, you killed a WOMAN and a kid!" as if just a group of civillians wasn't bad enough. Or hell, a father and son even.
Female characters recieving (real-world warzone-like) violence is still a no-no (Tomb Raider trailer?), so don't expect equal representation for some time. Though you'll probably see that before a story with a male character and primary male love interest rather than just an RPG option.
Also: Does Jim live next door to Pee-wee's playhouse?
One of my favorite games of all time is Perfect Dark a first person shoot where you play as a female. I also think games should have more gender options not just for the female demographic but I myself played a female in saints row so I could look at my characters sexy ass all day.
I totally agree with Jim on this one.
However, I am dreading what will happen if it does change.
"Games are now encouraging young men to murder women!"
I mean, GoW will be making an exception to what Kratos can kill based on some of his "Victims" being female. (A move which I am opposed to.) Because of the public backlash against game violence directed towards women.
Aside from agreeing with the magnificent Mr. Sterling here, I'm of the opinion that both sexes should be equally represented in our cross-hairs. And that when it happens, nobody should complain about it!
However, I am dreading what will happen if it does change.
"Games are now encouraging young men to murder women!"
I mean, GoW will be making an exception to what Kratos can kill based on some of his "Victims" being female. (A move which I am opposed to.) Because of the public backlash against game violence directed towards women.
Aside from agreeing with the magnificent Mr. Sterling here, I'm of the opinion that both sexes should be equally represented in our cross-hairs. And that when it happens, nobody should complain about it!
I'm sorry, but the so called "realism" is hardly an excuse.
First off, modern war shooters are not realistic. They are "movie accurate" we could say, with spectacular grittines akin to that of Hollywood blockbusters. Realism, the likes of which you can find in hardcore simulators or older iterations of tactical shooters like Ghost Recon, Rainbow Six or SWAT, is not the fast paced gun-and-run action that sells AAA games.
And that's in the carefully balanced campaign modes, multiplayer has always been an unrealisitc mess on any game.
Secondly, they are GAMES. Meant to be fun. Meant to entertain. Why is the entertainment of MEN valued more than that of WOMEN? (Sales figures aside, we're discussing a moral issue)
And finally, videogames, as any media, have a responsibility to the society they exist within. If in order to further the erradication of unfair biases in our society our entertainment's realism has to take a few hits, so be it. Black Norse Gods? Female Soldiers? Asian Cowboys? Transgendered Naval Captains? Unless you're making a documentary, all fine by my book.
First off, modern war shooters are not realistic. They are "movie accurate" we could say, with spectacular grittines akin to that of Hollywood blockbusters. Realism, the likes of which you can find in hardcore simulators or older iterations of tactical shooters like Ghost Recon, Rainbow Six or SWAT, is not the fast paced gun-and-run action that sells AAA games.
And that's in the carefully balanced campaign modes, multiplayer has always been an unrealisitc mess on any game.
Secondly, they are GAMES. Meant to be fun. Meant to entertain. Why is the entertainment of MEN valued more than that of WOMEN? (Sales figures aside, we're discussing a moral issue)
And finally, videogames, as any media, have a responsibility to the society they exist within. If in order to further the erradication of unfair biases in our society our entertainment's realism has to take a few hits, so be it. Black Norse Gods? Female Soldiers? Asian Cowboys? Transgendered Naval Captains? Unless you're making a documentary, all fine by my book.
"Nurb" appears to have said what I was thinking better than I could have.
I would add something to his list of acceptable female characters though: Man Killers.
The general consensus regarding sex and violence is that it's A-O-K to direct as much of it towards men as you want, regardless of how helpless or dangerous they are. Whereas directing any violence towards women is seen as a monstrous act, regardless of how helpless or dangerous they are.
This means that you can find yourself in a situation where killing a male civilian posing no threat is seen as more acceptable than killing a female assassin who just tried to murder you with a ROCKET LAUNCHER!
But I digress.
The other Socially Acceptable method of including women as game characters, is to have a team of immortal a-la-C.O.D. ladies who never die as part of the plot, gunning down thousands of white men. And as for their physical appearance, they better not be attractive! Lest they be described as appealing to heterosexual men!
I would add something to his list of acceptable female characters though: Man Killers.
The general consensus regarding sex and violence is that it's A-O-K to direct as much of it towards men as you want, regardless of how helpless or dangerous they are. Whereas directing any violence towards women is seen as a monstrous act, regardless of how helpless or dangerous they are.
This means that you can find yourself in a situation where killing a male civilian posing no threat is seen as more acceptable than killing a female assassin who just tried to murder you with a ROCKET LAUNCHER!
But I digress.
The other Socially Acceptable method of including women as game characters, is to have a team of immortal a-la-C.O.D. ladies who never die as part of the plot, gunning down thousands of white men. And as for their physical appearance, they better not be attractive! Lest they be described as appealing to heterosexual men!
I agree that violence towards women is irksome, but the reason why it is irksome is because said violence, and the shock related to it, is based only on the fact that the women *are* women.
What I mean by this is that placing female characters in dangerous situations can be as equally acceptable as doing it to male characters as long as their female condition is not a factor to be exploited.
Example: In GTA:VC I can chainsaw any pedestrian in half, be it a man, a woman or an elderly skater. The gender or age of the character being cut in half has no bearing on the act.
If, on the other hand, when attacking a female character the game focused on the act more dramatically, or, even worse, had my (male) character behave in a way as to imply sexual assault or domination of any kind, then it would be exploitative and "wronger" than the standard violence common to the game.
In the context of shooters, having female characters is seamless. They get the same death screen as anyone else, thus their gender (online idiots aside) is irrelevant.
Heck, Rainbow Six Vegas 2 does this, you can customize your character, multiplayer or SINGLE PLAYER CAMPAIGN, to be female, and appart from the voice actress, it has no bearing on the game action.
So, while I do agree that gender motivated violence and exploitation is awful, it really should have no bearing to the inclusion of female character options in modern shooter games. I mean, would Spec Ops: The Line have been less dramatic if the morally bankrupt actions had been performed by a woman?
What I mean by this is that placing female characters in dangerous situations can be as equally acceptable as doing it to male characters as long as their female condition is not a factor to be exploited.
Example: In GTA:VC I can chainsaw any pedestrian in half, be it a man, a woman or an elderly skater. The gender or age of the character being cut in half has no bearing on the act.
If, on the other hand, when attacking a female character the game focused on the act more dramatically, or, even worse, had my (male) character behave in a way as to imply sexual assault or domination of any kind, then it would be exploitative and "wronger" than the standard violence common to the game.
In the context of shooters, having female characters is seamless. They get the same death screen as anyone else, thus their gender (online idiots aside) is irrelevant.
Heck, Rainbow Six Vegas 2 does this, you can customize your character, multiplayer or SINGLE PLAYER CAMPAIGN, to be female, and appart from the voice actress, it has no bearing on the game action.
So, while I do agree that gender motivated violence and exploitation is awful, it really should have no bearing to the inclusion of female character options in modern shooter games. I mean, would Spec Ops: The Line have been less dramatic if the morally bankrupt actions had been performed by a woman?