Jimquisition: Mass Effect 3 And The Case For A Gay Shepard

Indignator

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Oct 26, 2011
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Dear Lord. I agree with you Jim, but your counter-arguments are just as weak as the arguments you are trying to refute. No pedophilia is not the same as homosexuality (although there are gay pedophiles), but both are sexual activities that some find deviant and therefore immoral. The morality of homosexuality is a topic that has been debated for decades in the highest (and lowest) echelons of public discourse, and your bold-faced declarations about the matter come off as naive.

Also, you used the "so?" argument twice. Since you are so fond of it, let me ask YOU - so? What do you care what some homophobes write on the internet? It doesn't affect YOUR experience.

OT: Personally I think that ALL romance options are useless, shoehorned gimmicks. All the romances in Bioware games feel tacked on just because it's something that the designers think the players want. Of course I just ignore the romances, but I feel like the creative man-hours spent on them could be better utilized somewhere else.
 

orangeapples

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Hmmm... I didn't know this was a problem in games. I thought the last vid was funny and left it at that.

Now on my first play through of these games, I tend to go straight and with the woman I find most attractive (not just looks, but personality). Then on a later play through after I already know each character, I get it on with every character I can. You have a relationship bar/meter/gauge? You will make you love me. Second play through is a whore. That's what happened in Dragon Age... I thought that was part of the fun...
 
Dec 14, 2009
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Indignator said:
Dear Lord. I agree with you Jim, but your counter-arguments are just as weak as the arguments you are trying to refute. No pedophilia is not the same as homosexuality (although there are gay pedophiles), but both are sexual activities that some find deviant and therefore immoral. The morality of homosexuality is a topic that has been debated for decades in the highest (and lowest) echelons of public discourse, and your bold-faced declarations about the matter come off as naive.
What.

You think two consenting men getting their freak on, is of the same level of social discourse as a man forcing himself on an innocent child?

Ouch.

My brain.
 

MB202

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Sep 14, 2008
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Okay, who said last week's Jimquisition was "too subtle"?

Also, I find it hilarious that Jim told everyone to grow up while holding a big, purple dildo.

Lastly, gamers arguing about entitlement are the biggest hypocrites on the face of the Earth.
 

The Great JT

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Oct 6, 2008
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It is the year 2012, people. You're not taking some big moral stand by getting bent out of shape over a gay romance option in a video game, you're being a homophobic bigot. It's been said before, I know, but homosexual options have been trying to be put in the game since the first one but were cut, not due to them being homosexual in nature but due to time. Also, if you don't want Shepard to be gay, YOU DON'T HAVE TO MAKE HIM GAY. You can play him as straight as an arrow, but if you want him to be homosexual now you have the CHOICE to do so. Freedom to choose was the intent from moment one. As for "Liara is a monogendered alien so she doesn't count as a lesbian option," allow me to introduce to you the concept of 'if it looks like a duck, walks like a duck and quacks like a duck.' Liara looks female, sounds female and acts female (except for the threats of fileting people with her mind), so I'm gonna go out on a limb and say she's female.

Finally, I can't belive I'm having to say this, if you were to say, nay to even THINK that pedophilia should be an option if homosexuality is an option, GET THE HELL OFF MY PLANET. I do not want to be in or on the same state, country or continent as you, I do not want to breathe the same air as you, I DO NOT WANT TO BE ON THE SAME PLANET AS YOU DISTURBED FREAKS. Clean out your desk, give me your letter of resignation, get into this space shuttle and GTFO.
 

sindremaster

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Tanakh said:
Fun vid, thanks Jim. Still think a gay shepard is (for the most part) retconning, and still think retconning should be avoided as much as possible; but yeah, after last week's thread i say let Shepard be queer and proud of it, that pedophile = gay stuff conviced me that it was actually a neccesary option in ME 3.
How can gay Shepard be retconning when you create your own Shepard? If I went and played Mass Effect 1 right now I could make a gay Shepard if I wanted.
 

BardicLasher

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SwimmingRock said:
I mean, male elves are generally depicted as more feminine and beautiful than their human counterparts, so a race where gender is less distinct might genuinely give less of a shit about gender.

Wait, there are male elves?!? I thought Zevran was just a very handsome woman!


...But seriously, is the entirety of this topic really going to be people commenting on how one guy is uneducated for thinking homosexuality is a mental illness? I think we can just roll our eyes, give him a pat on the head, and send him on his way... .And steal his time machine. But that's a side point.


Jim, great points as usual, and I'd like to say on the topic of last weeks... I didn't watch it. I went in, saw the warning's, paused after less than a minute, read the first few comments, and decided "Nothing to do here." As Jim's points said repeatedly: it's that easy to avoid if the stuff bothers you... And I'll happily admit that I'm sometimes not comfortable in situations involving homosexuals, but I'm also not comfortable in situations involving large dogs, coffee, or mexican food. All personal tastes.

...And I did wind up having my male character bed Zevran, so make of that what you will.


That said, maybe there's a problem with giving achievements and such for the homosexual options. Because unlocking achievements is part of gameplay for a lot of people, and I seem to recall getting one for fucking Zevran.
 

Darkong

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drivel said:
Lord_Gremlin said:
Considering the ending of this Jimquisition i think I will share my personal opinion.

Well now, I do have a problem with gay people. Aka they are sick in the head and whatever excuse medics came up in USA when they realized they can't cure them did not just made them normal... Look, curing schizophrenia is not easy either. If possible at all.
Why don't you do yourself a favor and read something instead of being an ignorant troglodyte for the rest of your life?

Is homosexuality a mental disorder?

No, lesbian, gay, and bisexual orientations are not disorders. Research has found no inherent association between any of these sexual orientations and psychopathology. Both heterosexual behavior and homosexual behavior are normal aspects of human sexuality. Both have been documented in many different cultures and historical eras. Despite the persistence of stereotypes that portray lesbian, gay, and bisexual people as disturbed, several decades of research and clinical experience have led all mainstream medical and mental health organizations in this country to conclude that these orientations represent normal forms of human experience. Lesbian, gay, and bisexual relationships are normal forms of human bonding. Therefore, these mainstream organizations long ago abandoned classifications of homosexuality as a mental disorder.
http://www.apa.org/helpcenter/sexual-orientation.aspx

Of course, science doesn't mean anything to people like you. Your gut feeling is what steers you through life. Hopefully out of the gene pool.
But being an ignorant troglodyte is sooo much easier than opening Google and typing in a few words to acquire an answer.

Seriously though, I'm afraid that you're wasting your time, people like that don't care about whether they're correct or not, only that they can spew their bile and ignorance against others.
 

Jacked Assassin

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Jun 4, 2010
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I was almost not going to watch this due to a fear that Jim was homophobic. I just got confused by what context he was using the term gay in.

I thought he was just using gay instead of the word "lame" to express his hatred for whatever copyright BS EA is using in their games. Because every time I hear or read gay used in that context, I can't help but feel I'm wasting time with someone else's ignorance.

However I'm happy that it was clarified that he actually meant Male Homosexuals. In which case I'm glad they're finally being represented in Mass Effect 3. But they should have been there in 1 & 2 also.
 

MB202

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Sep 14, 2008
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Oh by the way... really? Pedophilia? Are you serious? The Internet is full of fucking morons.
 

Ishiro32

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Mar 28, 2011
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Nice episode.

TBH i never had problems with gay romances in Mass Effect. I agree that this is an option and if someone is not into it he shouldn't even be exposed to that and people who like it should have it.
But... The way dragon age 2 did it was very bad. I tell you why:
- all characters were bi. This is not even funny, it was just lazy design. If you replay the game it really breaks the immersion. IT IS LAZY! I don't like the idea that genre you pick changes the sexual orientation of all you companions. And btw i maybe would have less problem with this if characters were more than 2D cliches. (Slut sailor, quircky elf [so kawai], edgy final fantasy guy, whiner)
- even if you didn't talk to them at all you companions start to flirt with you. I tell you story from my first run.
"I didn't like anders, he was anoying and he made me very angry whenever he started whining. I didn't play with him at all, i tried to be as mean to him as i could.
And then... He started hiting on me... WTF? I ignored this character almost completly and somehow game forces the flirt"
I dissed him and killed him when i could. Maybe it's because of their stupid system with rivality romance (which is good on paper), anyhow game shouldn't even propose me this romance when during the whole game i dissed his whiny ass. Forced and LAZY DESIGN.
To sum up: gay romances should be in game as an option, but they should be done good and if you ignore someone don't force the flirt, this doesn't make any sense and is disgusting.

God how i hate this game, i understand that they had devoloping cycle of about 1 year... but ehhh... It shouldn't be dragon age 2, just spin off dragon age:awesome or smth. They just milked cash from franchise because TOR was becoming more and more expensive. I just hate what this game represents.

And btw
- When romances in games became one of the main features that even retard mashing the keybord can achive? (radial wheel which shows you what is good and evil, you never have to think about which line will be the best)
I remember when romances were something you had to work on, you know like real ones? I remember when they weren't on tracks and when they didn't happened only on designated areas! I want to feel some conection to the chick i'm banging in game. Ehhh...
 

Woodsey

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Aug 9, 2009
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There's no case AGAINST a gay Shepard. If you don't want your Shepard to be gay, don't try and bang the male crew members.

Fucking simple.

The only argument that even approaches being worth thinking about is how they implement it, but if the implementation's shoddy you criticise the implementation, not the fact that they're trying to include it.
 

Avatar Roku

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Jul 9, 2008
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One excuse I heard last week that you didn't address was that making a gay romance would take resources away from the rest of the game and make it worse as a whole...to which I ask, how is that different from the straight romances?

Hey, I didn't say it was a good argument.
 

Shikua

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Dec 7, 2010
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BardicLasher said:
SwimmingRock said:
I mean, male elves are generally depicted as more feminine and beautiful than their human counterparts, so a race where gender is less distinct might genuinely give less of a shit about gender.

Wait, there are male elves?!? I thought Zevran was just a very handsome woman!


...But seriously, is the entirety of this topic really going to be people commenting on how one guy is uneducated for thinking homosexuality is a mental illness? I think we can just roll our eyes, give him a pat on the head, and send him on his way... .And steal his time machine. But that's a side point.


Jim, great points as usual, and I'd like to say on the topic of last weeks... I didn't watch it. I went in, saw the warning's, paused after less than a minute, read the first few comments, and decided "Nothing to do here." As Jim's points said repeatedly: it's that easy to avoid if the stuff bothers you... And I'll happily admit that I'm sometimes not comfortable in situations involving homosexuals, but I'm also not comfortable in situations involving large dogs, coffee, or mexican food. All personal tastes.

...And I did wind up having my male character bed Zevran, so make of that what you will.


That said, maybe there's a problem with giving achievements and such for the homosexual options. Because unlocking achievements is part of gameplay for a lot of people, and I seem to recall getting one for fucking Zevran.
You get an achievement for romancing Zevran in general, not just for romancing him as a man.
 

Avatar Roku

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RatGouf said:
I was almost not going to watch this due to a fear that Jim was homophobic. I just got confused by what context he was using the term gay in.

I thought he was just using gay instead of the word "lame" to express his hatred for whatever copyright BS EA is using in their games. Because every time I hear or read gay used in that context, I can't help but feel I'm wasting time with someone else's ignorance.

However I'm happy that it was clarified that he actually meant Male Homosexuals. In which case I'm glad they're finally being represented in Mass Effect 3. But they should have been there in 1 & 2 also.
Apparently, they were all set to include it in ME1 and 2, but maleShep's face model objected to having his face connected to homosexuality, so they cut the gay male options, as well as the female ones (sans Liara) for the sake of fairness.
 

Indignator

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Oct 26, 2011
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Daystar Clarion said:
Indignator said:
Dear Lord. I agree with you Jim, but your counter-arguments are just as weak as the arguments you are trying to refute. No pedophilia is not the same as homosexuality (although there are gay pedophiles), but both are sexual activities that some find deviant and therefore immoral. The morality of homosexuality is a topic that has been debated for decades in the highest (and lowest) echelons of public discourse, and your bold-faced declarations about the matter come off as naive.
What.

You think two consenting men getting their freak on, is of the same level of social discourse as a man forcing himself on an innocent child?

Ouch.

My brain.
No, you misunderstood. The morality of pedophilia is not something that is publicly discussed because it is universally considered immoral.
 

Sewer Rat

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Sep 14, 2008
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Here here.
I find it sickening that anybody could possibly say 'Homosexuality = Pedophilia'.
I'm a straight man and very comfortable with my sexuality, but I respect homosexuals and see nothing inherently wrong with it. For those who say 'They are choosing to be Gay!', I say "Bull-fucking-shit" I went through a period while I was in middleschool where rumors got out that I was gay because I was eccentric as a child and it made those 3 years some of the worst years in my life. The taunting, the bullying, the obscene comments nearly drove me into a frenzy, and I respect anybody who can live through that and be comfortable with who they are. Saying that someone 'chose to be gay' is like saying that they chose to be verbally waterboarded for most of their lives.

I accept though that not everyone will agree with this, I can see why others might consider it strange, but I cannot see how you can equate it to raping a child. If you truly believe this, kindly sterilize yourself so we won't have to put up with your bullshit for more than a generation.
 
Dec 14, 2009
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Indignator said:
Daystar Clarion said:
Indignator said:
Dear Lord. I agree with you Jim, but your counter-arguments are just as weak as the arguments you are trying to refute. No pedophilia is not the same as homosexuality (although there are gay pedophiles), but both are sexual activities that some find deviant and therefore immoral. The morality of homosexuality is a topic that has been debated for decades in the highest (and lowest) echelons of public discourse, and your bold-faced declarations about the matter come off as naive.
What.

You think two consenting men getting their freak on, is of the same level of social discourse as a man forcing himself on an innocent child?

Ouch.

My brain.
No, you misunderstood. The morality of pedophilia is not something that is publicly discussed because it is universally considered immoral.
Well agree with you there, homosexuality was at a stage once when nobody dared speak about it.

But pedophilia causes nothing but harm, this isn't something that's going to change anytime soon, we're not going to move into an era where it's ever accepted. Homophobia is a result of ignorance. Being against pedophilia is good common sense.