Jimquisition: Mass Effect 3 And The Case For A Gay Shepard

[ms_sunlight]

Let me just get this out of the way "I AM CLEVER AT VIDEO GAMES".
Any way my complaint with gayness in ME3 was that it was too late in the series, Jim said that you could choose to be gay or not. If this is the case than that is absolutely fine.

Shepard is an avatar for you in the Mass effect story, and if you are gay so is your Shepard.
HOWEVER in Dragon Age 2 another Bioware game which is basically fantasy, mass effect now. When a character started to flirt with Hawke in a gay way I was given three options. Two of which were options to reciprocate the flirt and act gay. The other was something along the lines of F*CK OFF I AM NOT GAY. Which would have upset the character, and given me rivalry points which I didn't want.
There NEEDS to be a neutral option here so you can say something like "I am flattered but no thank you". So NO I am not Homophobic and pedophilia is not something that should be compared to gay sex, pedophilia is an act of evil, gay sex is a matter of free will and choice.

Are we still talking about Anders? Look, I won't say DA2 was flawless, but that dialogue choice rang true for me. That is, if you rebuff someone's advances they are liable to be a little put out about it! It's tough to put yourself out there by showing attraction and get knocked back. Ten bloody rivalry points - you can still have full friendship before half way through act 2 without hardly trying! Besides, Anders does the same thing - with the same result - to F!Hawke.

There is another dialogue option - you can see the whole thing off at the pass earlier in the same conversation by saying that being posessed by a demon is creepy, for even less rivalry.

 

[darron13]

Great as usual but he totally missed out on the entitlement argument. Considering how many tits and asses get jammed in our face in most games, homosexual dudes must have it pretty rough.
Then again there is Gears of war....

My favorite thing about Jim I gotta say is how consistant and well thought out his opinions are. (even if i sometimes disagree I never fault where he is coming from) He never seems to contradict himself proving a point and thats the reason I would rather have more respect for him than some of the other people who do opinion pieces on this site.

Gears of War? Ick. Those guys are about as attractive as a piece of burnt toast taped onto a tank.
Coming from an actual gay guy.
And yeah it's funny that in the RARE SITUATION where there's male fanservice, you notice it.

I dunno I always figured Marcus would cuddle after.......maybe cry a little

Speaking as a filthy breeder, I never found much sex appeal in games either. For probably the same reasons you don't like Marcus and crew in that they are caricatures of real physicality and not attractive. Which kinda proves my point that sexualization in games is jammed in everyones faces and is universally pretty shit. It's kind of like how marketing companies are targeting the gay community. Yeah it's equality. But it's shit equality. You are now as sexualized and manipulated as the rest of us. woohoo! I have no problem with dudes/ladydudes loving each other and personally find it as compelling as a mixed dude couple. Because at the end of the day we are all dudes and if some dudes have a problem with that, then are not really dudes at all.

they're jerks

<NOTICE: YOU HAVE OVERUSED YOUR USAGE OF THE WORD DUDE FOR THIS WEEKLY PERIOD>
XD
On a serious note, I agree with you. It's not as obvious (at least in Western Games) for fanservice aimed at gays but it's there. Oversexualization is something that I find unattractive, I mean the most attractive videogame character I've ever come across is actually Ellis from Left 4 Dead 2, who isn't at all sexualized, but just came over (to me at least) as being attractive, a bit naive but in a cute way and as being generally sweet and caring.
If they make characters attractive in THAT way then there won't be much of a problem. A good on-topic example is Tali from Mass Effect, she is in no way particularly sexualized, but many players love her and it's because they use her personality to get people to like her, not her boobs.

 

[SteewpidZombie]

Personally I am straight, and I choose to pursue straight character relationships, HOWEVER I couldn't give two halves of a whole flying F**K about whether or not someone else chooses to have a gay character. If someone (male or female) who may or may not be a homosexual, decides that they want a same-sex realtionship between their characters, it is NONE of my own or ANYONE else's business.

 

[ACman]

My point is that disagreeing with someone does not give you the right to disrespect them.

Okay, I don't even know what your argument is about or what you opinions are, but I have to step in here, because I see this stupid shit spouted all the time.

Yes. It. Does.

If someone espouses an opinion that you find contemptible then you have every right to disrespect them, and they have every right to disrespect you back.

Respect is something that should be earned, not arbitrarily given to everyone, and if someone has done nothing to earn your respect then you SHOULDN'T respect them.

The attitude about respect has lead to a modern age where every fucking tard with an opinion thinks they have something worthwhile to say because no one ever calls them on it when they start spewing their bullshit.

For starters my warning is about site policy. It's intended not so much because of me being concerned about people being rude to me, but because I figure off this topic some of the people involved like AC seem like they are intelligent enough where I'd enjoy conversing with them on other discussions. If they act like this routinely though every time they have a strong disagreement, they WILL get banned. Arguements about free speech and such don't apply on forums like this, whether they should or not is an entirely differant discussion which would be so far off topic as to be ridiculous, but next time it comes up I'll probably be right there with you in the thread, assuming your actually interested in things like that.

I'll also remind you that your espoused principle is a double edged sword. See, "bullshit" is a matter of perspective, especially on big issues. Right now your on a friendly forum to the socially liberal, on other sites you'd find the situation reversed. To be painfully blunt I think a point people here tend to overlook is that there is no clear "right" answer here accepted by society, simply one promoted by the media, with the reality being heavily divided. Truthfully I sometimes wonder how people here would fare if they tried to do what I do and express their point of view on a hostile site to provide some sense of balance. I suspect most would flee with their tail between their legs, or freak out to the extreme and get themselves banned.

You're espousing the idea that all gays should be registered and monitored by the government.
I didn't think you could actually proffer that idea outside of faggot_haters.org and get away with it.

You do not deserve respect nor politeness.

 

[DeadlyYellow]

Homosexuality exists in over 450 animal species. Homophobia exists in only one. Which one seems more unnatural now?

Nature analogies tend to fall apart the moment you remember that rape and cannibalism are considered crimes by human standards.

 

[Conza]

Well, for once in a long while, I think this Jimquisition was a wasted opportunity to bag all the whiners complaining about the option in the game... the entire 8 minutes of sarcastic, and horribly cliched dialogue is meant to do that, but giving detail and analysis would've been more interesting, I didn't really find this funny, but for anyone stupid enough not to like ME3 because of the option mentioned in this video, if they were stupid enough not to like it before the video, but still watched the entire video, well I have no idea how they'd feel, hopefully like an idiot at not liking the game in the first place, and realisation that they had no justification for not liking the game?

Anyway, next week will be good, so meh, one mediocre blip is alright.

Damn, well I think between the two episodes, all the right points were made, and the fish slap to all those homophobes was good to see, I still stand by that the first episode was a wasted opportunity, as clear by the fact what that episode should've been, was mostly done in this episode instead, except for the fact that there was a rebuttle component as well.

Now hopefully, the next week will really be something new, so we can move on, I wonder if after both episodes, there are still people stupid enough to think that the game should'nt have this option?

 

[ACman]

See, and here you go, beating up your straw man, and this is why I don't take a lot of arguements being made seriously, especially when they claim to represent something I believe or represent which is inaccurate. I recommend you head to Jim's other thread, read what I've actually said on the subject, which might take going back a LOT of posts to the initial statement without the issue of context from specific arguements that can't be taken on it's own, and then get back to me because I'm not going into it again in this thread.

In this case your ignorant and have absolutly no idea who, or what your even argueing with. At the best I'd guess you jumped into the other thread later, and missed the initial points of the discussion and jumped to some incorrect conclusions.

Mind you, I do not expect you to agree with me, but you might be able to form a more relevent and reasoned arguement to whom your actually trying to face the next time this debate surfaces because I'm not going to be slugging it out in this thread, having made my points in regards to this issue already and not seeing the point of an endless political brawl on what amounts to a left wing forum.

But also remember, if you don't keep it polite, you can come up with the best arguements in the world, your not going to get my attention or a response. This goes for pretty much everyone.

You don't seem to understand the concept of a straw man. You are ON RECORD as saying you favour the registration and tracking of homosexuals.

I don't need to build a straw man because you've already gone so far beyond pale.

 

[ZexionSephiroth]

In the end this is about me opposing what amount to demands of entitlement and enforced political correctness, not a result of any other position I might hold.

How do you know that is why it was put in? PR statements don't always reflect the intent of the creators and they could have changed their mind. You are making assumptions and then criticizing others for making different equally, if not more, valid assumptions.
And as far as PC ruining the game you don't have to be gay so it cant ruin your game. Where you not paying attention? If ME3 made you have sex with a guy for every girl you had sex with to balance it out I could understand the problem but you are only gay if you want to be. And according to BioWare this was added in because they wanted to not because they where pressured to, so stop trying to ruin the game by pressuring the creators.

And This brings me to one point and a half to add to someone elses bebate...

Ultimately, like Darknacht says, any choices a company makes about content they are free to make however they choose. And in cases like this I can see a few motivations on such a choice. Such as "gay" Shepard appealing not just to homosexual men, but to straight women as well. Which would amount to "yay! Profit"... And I'm sure that the pressence or lack thereof when it comes to slightly rarer or more secretive acts would not be that much of a blow to their sales figures or even boost either.

Or maybe they were bored and thought it would be fun to try. You know, "art". Or many similar versions of that logic.

And then there might be the fact that M/M relationships being added might just happen to be a reasonable request. Which I can imagine could go along the lines of: "Ehh, we've got time, and it probably won't cost us that much profit (see above where i mention Straight women possibly liking it) Let's 'throw it in".

 

[ZexionSephiroth]

Really thy don't want even the gay OPTION! They don't even have that option with their own lives, nothing stops THEIR OWN lives going that way.

All there is is a gay character you can interact with and reciprocate the sexy-time. If you can't resist that you aren't a homophobe... you are a homosexual - in denial.

... Or a Bisexual in denial. You can't forget that.

 

[ZexionSephiroth]

DISCLAIMER: DO NOT GOOGLE IMAGE SEARCH PEGGING UNLESS YOUR PRETTY FORWARD THINKING ABOUT SEXUALITY

Jeez, I thought everyone in the internet was pretty desensitized.

You missed my point completely. A lot of things are sex related. Weapons are. See those "ranking stripes" in a triangular shape? They are supposed to represent who has the "biggest dick".

Xenomorphs. Their head is shaped that way because it's phallic.

You can like things without wanting to have sex with them. Yet they are sex related.

By Jim's logic everyone is a flaming homosexual.

Jim was referring to physical attraction to phallic objects, as opposed to just liking them. male Homosexuality is defined as physical attraction to a phallus and similar objects.
While the words are interchanged a lot, lust and like have much different meanings.
For example:
I will admit to liking guns. I don't however find attraction in them, nothing about them "turns me on".

Related to that, one wouldn't believe how often I have to inform people that there is no disagreement.

That's the point. Attraction does not imply sexual satisfaction. I don't know anyone who gets off by shooting, or competing in sports, and other "male" activities.

But it's still sexual. We humans have the ability to enjoy sexuality without having to get off.

I don't start jacking off uncontrollably when I see a girl taking off her clothes. It's still sexual.

Spears. Swords. Pretty much any kind of weapon is related to the phallus because our brain gives it that connotation.

And come on, in sports there is plenty of male-on-male contact. Yet it doesn't make it's participants gay. Jim had a giant dildo replicating the infamous Saint's Row 3 weapon. That doesn't make him gay, and if he didn't like it he would have given it away. Just saying.

Straight people watch porn with gigantic penises, and wish they were that guy.

This dude gets it. How would a man admire a big cock if his male brain did not make him attracted to phallic objects? I'm not saying I try to peek at other men in public restrooms, but that we are pretty much wired to become the alpha male.

This sounds just a little bit Freudian in the aplication of the theories here. So I have to say I don't ussually give such conotations to the weapons 'directly'. maybe undder a whole bunch of layers, but I have a much more complex view of the blade after a semi-cultured life where much more mystical meaning for the blade are given. Which in no particular order are:

The ability to fight fate or even control it, with the fate of death being symbolised by scissors in the myth of the fates.
The manifistaion of internal power.
Destruction, fairly simple.
Honor; the use of a tool of war not just to destroy, but to protect your ideals from forces that will not stop unless fought.
Your ties to others; how many times have you seen a weapon given to someone either from their father or a friend?

And in the case of mystical blades: virtues such as wisdom, determination, idealism, etc.

... In the end i think of these things a long time before I think about... Erm, you know... It's there clearly, but it's only ever obvious if the context permits it, which it rarely does.

Also... I don't have envy of another man's parts. Not that mine are great, I just have absolutly no clue about what anyone would find attractive in it; In other words "I don't get it". It just looks so out of place, so... what's the word? a kind of dissonance from the rest of someone's otherwise smooth or angular body (depending on build). I don't get it. I just plain don't get it... of course I don't have to get it. And other's obviously do considering what the entire thread is about (good for them). So... Umm... Where was I going with this?

*sweat drop* um... *Wild Ze'roth flees*

 

[Mr_Jellyfish]

Bravo! Thank God for Jim! And thank God for gay sex!

 

[ZexionSephiroth]

Yes but his entire point was if you do want to have sex with symbols of male masculinity you might be a bit gay.

Pegging involves a female partner. How is it gay?

Jim was childish, period. And being childish is not the best way to say others need to grow up.

Well, one could argue that while many people might need to grow up in one way, imiturity in another is perfectly fine. For example, grown men acting like girls is fine. being as enthusiastic as a child in the peak of idealism is fine. however being as mean as the children in school is not fine.

Also, quite a bit of humour might come from our childish side. And I'm sure we all have something that makes us feel like a wide eyed child again.

Of course, children can be mean too, as one specific phrase goes "kids can be so mean". And that is the main reason they must grow up...

Oh, and as a direct point. maybe Jim was using himself as an example of someone who needs to grow up. That part did feel like he was using meta-humour after all.

Any questions? If not I'll go back to batting at a ball of yarn or something. *Nya*

 

[kuolonen]

snip

Your personal opinion is based on unfounded medical and scientific facts; normal you say? Beating your wife in the 40's was normal, or perhaps I should go back? The romans and the greek were pretty homosexual and that was normal. Saying, I will give my opinion does not excent you of following the rules, this is not an opinion, this a homophobic comment and it is terrible.

OP: I don't really think Bioware are open and mature to be quite honest, let me give you 2 clear examples. First, you can go Lesbian in Mass Effect 1 and 2 but not gay. Also, the demo

Spoiler: Spoilered just in case

Wrex refers to the queen as "Women". First of all, SEXIST? ANYONE? Also this is inconsistent. For fucks sake! Wrex has always wanted to save the Krogan, this could be one of the last fertile females, and Wrex is the first one to want to fight the genophage, he would have utmost respect for this female, it may be his race's last hope.

So yeah, open and mature, I don't think so Jim.

Waitwaitwait... since when have the opinions of the characters in games been the representations of hearts and minds of the development team? Wrexes opinions (defined by krogan war&macho -culture) are his own, not a statement by bioware on their view on gender roles.

Theres also a batarian bartender in ME2 who serves poison to humans because he is a racist bastard. If Wrexes views are proof positive that bioware is sexist, then ,by your logic, bioware is also racist, because they have a character with racist views in their game.

Do think Bioware should make an additional codex entry on what views of Fictional characters of fictional cultures they disapprove seperately?

OT: Dont really care what options they put in game, as long as they dont sacrifice something else because of it, due to time constraints. Which, if I remember correctly, was the reason there wasnt a gay option in ME2.

 

[ReservoirAngel]

My only problem with them including a homosexual option for Shepard in Mass Effect 3 is that I wish they'd had the same types of options in the first 2 games so I could have hooked up with Kaiden.

As it stands since I let him die in the first game, if I want to get me some of that sweet arse I'm going to have to play the first 2 over again. Though I'm not sure if he even appears in Mass Effect 2. I assume he only didn't show up in my playthrough of it because I sacrificed him on Vermire in Mass Effect 1.

Even so, I am determined to hit that even if it means playing through 2 past games (I never did finish ME2 anyway).

 

[BlackStar42]

Thank Jim for Jim. This is 2012 people, gay-bashing is so noughties.

 

[blackrave]

There are plenty of ignorant people out there
They will rage about anything without any deeper understanding of topic
Also since when pedophilia=homosexualism?
That makes no f. sense, if homosexual molests kids of same gender, what stops heterosexual to molest kids of opposite gender? The answer is- nothing. Both can be pedophiles.

And besides all humans are bisexual, only hetero/homo balance is different for every person.
And no amount of denial will change it.

P.S. Congrats to Jim, he actually forced me to make Escapist account, because this topic is really important to me. No, not sexuality issues, but ignorance and stupidity of people.

P.P.S. I agree with ReservoirAngel, having this option in previous games, would be nice

 

[ReservoirAngel]

My point is that disagreeing with someone does not give you the right to disrespect them.

Okay, I don't even know what your argument is about or what you opinions are, but I have to step in here, because I see this stupid shit spouted all the time.

Yes. It. Does.

If someone espouses an opinion that you find contemptible then you have every right to disrespect them, and they have every right to disrespect you back.

Respect is something that should be earned, not arbitrarily given to everyone, and if someone has done nothing to earn your respect then you SHOULDN'T respect them.

The attitude about respect has lead to a modern age where every fucking tard with an opinion thinks they have something worthwhile to say because no one ever calls them on it when they start spewing their bullshit.

For starters my warning is about site policy. It's intended not so much because of me being concerned about people being rude to me, but because I figure off this topic some of the people involved like AC seem like they are intelligent enough where I'd enjoy conversing with them on other discussions. If they act like this routinely though every time they have a strong disagreement, they WILL get banned. Arguements about free speech and such don't apply on forums like this, whether they should or not is an entirely differant discussion which would be so far off topic as to be ridiculous, but next time it comes up I'll probably be right there with you in the thread, assuming your actually interested in things like that.

I'll also remind you that your espoused principle is a double edged sword. See, "bullshit" is a matter of perspective, especially on big issues. Right now your on a friendly forum to the socially liberal, on other sites you'd find the situation reversed. To be painfully blunt I think a point people here tend to overlook is that there is no clear "right" answer here accepted by society, simply one promoted by the media, with the reality being heavily divided. Truthfully I sometimes wonder how people here would fare if they tried to do what I do and express their point of view on a hostile site to provide some sense of balance. I suspect most would flee with their tail between their legs, or freak out to the extreme and get themselves banned.

You're espousing the idea that all gays should be registered and monitored by the government.
I didn't think you could actually proffer that idea outside of faggot_haters.org and get away with it.

You do not deserve respect nor politeness.

He actually said that?

Fuck the world...

 

[AbstractStream]

Nobody gonna mention that big fake penis Jim was holding? Just me?
Well okay then o_o"