Jimquisition: New Generation, Old Bullsh*t

rob_simple

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Aug 8, 2010
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bug_of_war said:
rob_simple said:
Two separate arguments, there, champ. It's like me buying a new house but being told I can't move in any of my old stuff because this one is already furnished.
I see your point, but I disagree, at least in the sense of non backwards compatability with discs (digital buys from the PSN should carry over immedietly). but they haven't and may take longer to come if at all. We shouldn't be angry at this though, sometimes we gotta move on, and video games aren't as big an investment as a new house and furniture. Looking at the film and music situation, as in the conversion from VHS-DVD-BluRay and Vinyl-Cassette-CD, I'd say that video games are just following the trend of digital art. Sure you can still get most songs and films easier than games, but that is not a bad thing, just look at Nintendo and how people are begining to groan because "Hey guys we've just started development on New NEW Super Mario Land 1 month after NEW Super Mario Land". It's fine to want to play old games, I think everybody should be able to pick up an old classic, and you can mostly still do that by holding onto your old harware. A friend of mine just recently bought himself a PS3 and 20 games for under 400 dollars, some of these games were as old as the console itself, but he still got the games and they worked.
I agree that backwards compatibility for discs isn't a huge issue, (one of life's greatest pleasures, to me, is digging out an old console and reminiscing for a while,) but with digital downloads they really have no excuse. I would like the option to play my old discs on the new hardware, but at least the reasons for that not being possible are justified, and the only real difference it makes, to me, is that I won't be upgrading to the new console immediately.

You're comparison with VHS-DVD-BluRay is completely justified, but where video games differ is I can't buy the same old games I love for a new console like I could with buying songs off the Apple Store or buying films on Blu-Ray, and I can still integrate my old collections of film and music into new media (DVD's play in Blu-Ray players; I can rip CD's and put them on my iPod). Hell, there are even programs to rip vinyl onto computers now, and I can transfer VHS's onto the computer, likewise, then burn them to DVD's.

Video games are really the only format that completely locks out old iterations and people seem to be alright with it, which made sense in the cartridge days when technology meant cartridges were getting smaller and smaller, but with the transition to discs that excuse is less valid and with digital content there is no reason they couldn't make it work.

I completely get where you are coming from in terms of moving on instead of constantly harping back, but in this case I feel that it's akin to throwing your copy of Batman Returns in the bin because The Dark Knight exists, now. You can embrace new ideas without completely abandoning the old ones.
 

CrazyCapnMorgan

Is not insane, just crazy >:)
Jan 5, 2011
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DigitalSushi said:
CrazyCapnMorgan said:
Hey Jim, all humour aside, did the parody of the announcement of the PS4 sum up pretty much all thoughts of the event?

In case you haven't seen it:

I'm crying with laughter.

I was actually quite excited by the announcement, I mean, why the hell are people pissed off?

Sony is trying to sell a product, how dare they?, the fucking nerve.
After the debacle that was Aliens: Colonial Marines, people have finally taken to heart that everything that gets shown to them deserves criticism. Whether or not said criticism is actually fair will vary from person to person, but for me - nothing less than showing me the system, putting the game in and playing it will earn my trust. That's what it has come to.

Furthermore, I don't blame people who have criticism over the PS4. Opinions such as Jim's are to be expected. Look at what has happened up to this point:

1) Mass Effect story writer's outright lie about how they were going to end the series
2) Diablo 3's piss poor launch, not to mention the actual game itself
3) Afore mentioned A:CM debacle and being conned into a game that should've been an awesome entry for the franchise
4) The WarZ fiasco (seriously, how the hell is Sergey Titov still relevant in this industry?)

And more can be added to this, I'm sure.

Bottom line is: many people don't trust anyone in the gaming industry at this point. That's how videos, like the one I posted, make such a mark. The comedy is that that was an effective, and mostly truthful, evaluation of the whole event. Something the gaming industry obviously lacks the vision to perceive.
 

rob_simple

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Akratus said:
I HAVE AN EXPLANATION!:

The PS3 didn't do well. It was last in the console race.
Only an idiot would say that financially, now is the time for risks.
If it's one thing sony doesn't want. It's another high tech, high price console that only scrapes by meagerly.
So why have they created exactly that?
Why, if money is so tight, have they made another console that they're going to be selling at a loss while trying to make it up in unit sales for the five or six games they'll have available at launch?
If Sony really didn't want a repeat of the PS3, then they wouldn't have gone ahead and made the exact same console with more powerful tech.

Sony are just another prime example of a market that has almost completely stopped listening to the consumer and instead tried to latch onto every fad that's going in the hope of fooling people long enough to get their money, as opposed to the old fashioned method of knuckling down and making the games that used to make console gaming worthwhile.
 

Little Gray

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RandV80 said:
I'd say it's more just like the current generation. I just finished watching the video, and my impression was while the big guys have found a whole lot of new types of bullshit to dump on us, what Jim's saying here is pretty much the exact impression I got going into the PS3/360 generation. Same basic games, better graphics. And this was not the case with previous generation jumps. From 8-bit to 16-bit to CD to DVD, each time a new console came out new types of games and genres came with it (a new controller as well for that matter).

My basic guidelines for to measure a new generation of games on is "could you have made this next gen game for a last gen console with lesser graphics". Because of this I was never impressed with the PS3/360, and it looks like things aren't going to be much better for the PS4/whatever.

One more thing to illustrate this, just look at The Elder Scroll series. Look at the jump we got from Daggerfall to Morrowind. Then look at the complete sidestep from Morrowind to Oblivion. With mods you can now bring the PC version of Morrowind's graphics up to par with Oblivion, and you have something that may as well have been made on the same console.
The start of every generation is just like the previous one. Sure sometimes we get a different controller or storage device but that rarely ever changes the early games that come out. Having cross platform games blurs that line even more with the staggered release of consoles from developers.

Even the 8-bit to 16-bit or CD to DVD didnt bring about many changes other then allowing for better graphics.
 

FedericoV

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Apr 17, 2011
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Crono1973 said:
FedericoV said:
Crono1973 said:
Most PC's don't have a GTX 670, 12 GB's of RAM and a quad core. Was the point of this post to brag about YOUR specs?
40% of PC gamers on Steam has a quadcore. They are A LOT and they are probably the most active part of the Steam player base. They are going to be more by the end of the year. Probably more than people with 2 core PCs (wich are 48% of the Steam player base).

Anyway for a PC gamer, an upgrade to the PC like mine for the GPU and RAM to a 3/4 year old CPU cost as much as a PS4 (if the rumors are to be believed). In 6 months, it will cost less. And the software (games) costs less too.

So the point of my post is pretty simple and I'm not bragging about my specs. A PC can change with relative ease: in 6 months most gaming PCs could be upgraded to perform equally or better than any "next-gen" console and you can save the cost thanks to Steam sales or other similar services.

So, your "most gaming PCs will perform worse than a PS4" is simply wrong, false and baseless. The point of console is not power or money. They are just more convenient for the living room and offer a different set of ergonomics.
 

grumpymooselion

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The lack of 'software' backwards compatibility, in regard to PSN purchases is, frankly, unforgivable. I have a NES, SNES, PS1, PS2slim and PS3slim here and I'm saying that. It's unforgivable. The PSN stuff has to be backwards compatible, and, if it isn't, they deserve every ounce, and more, of negativity they get in return.

I understand the lack of the hardware compatibility, the PS4 not playing PS3 discs does not bother me. I'm talking purely about the digital stuff.

I have nearing three decades worth of PC games, I've bought, that work on my current PC through one means or another - that I HAVE NOT had to repurchase in order to keep working. All working on my modern PC. This is the competition, like it or not, the PC as a gaming platform is not dying, and never has been. It's competition. Consoles, becoming ever more like PCs, have to step up - and not just the PS4. For the faults in the PS4 as we see them currently, the Wii U has many more faults, and I have NO faith that Microsoft's new XBOX, when announced, will manage any better.
 

Nexxis

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When I first heard about the announcement for the PS4, the first words out of my mouth were "Yay! Now the browns and greys will look even better!" I never watched the content for the new console. Heck, I didn't care. After watching this video, not only did I realize that I wasn't the only one, but other people seemed to be apathetic for similar reasons. I've been gradually moving away from the console market since it seemed like fresh ideas were only coming out for the PC with the indie market. I was hoping for interesting stuff would come out on console, but companies just seem to be pushing more of the franchises I've never played in the first place. Nor have I had any interest in playing them. I hope the industry and pull out of this funk soon, or I feel like this could spell the end (for the console market, anyways).
 

Sotanaht

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"This generation, as long preordained and prophesied, might finally be, the last"

Thank god, thank FUCKING god. And yes, I've been saying this for years, at least since 2010 if not sooner. I didn't realize that it was such a mainstream argument though, or maybe that's a more recent thing with Sony threatening to go under and Microsoft silently falling to pieces in the last year.

My argument stems from the fact that there's basically no where for consoles to go from 7th gen. They will go into 8th gen, people will realize it's exactly the same shit, and either stick with their 7th gen console or just never show interest in a 9th. Sticking with the 7th genners means devs will smartly choose to continue to support them, which means that the 8th fails in the games department. Nintendo is the exception and might make a 9th gen console because the wii has so much room for improvement, but they alienated their core catering to a fickle casual demographic and they will be hurting 8th gen as well.

Not only is there no where for them to go technologically, but the features stepped to far into the PCs turf already. Consoles are already "PC-lite". They've backed themselves into the innovative corner where the only thing they can really do is become even more like a PC. Enter the steambox, which already is a PC and they can't hope to compete.
 

maximara

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Ralen-Sharr said:
gotta love those internet tough guys...

Hopefully things turn out well for the new console generation.
I doubt it as this generation will have things like smartphones and pads to contend with. The cost of making games on consoles has gotten insane and Extra Credits made a good argument that consoles will go the way of the video game arcade in "Consoles Are the New Coin-Op" with about two generations left before they simply cease to exist as a major player and become the modern day version of the Apple II--the undead thing that will not freaking die because of nostalgia.
 

CapitalistPig

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Dec 3, 2011
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Jim I hear you loud and clear, but that's because I'm sitting at my absolutely silent, water cooled, 8-core processor, multi screen, surround sound monster of a desktop set up that cost me about the same as two PS3s (release price ish.) So yeah, I don't understand console culture. My four year old laptop has 9 second loading screens for Fall out NV, whereas the Xbox 360 counterpart has 30 seconds give or take. Call that petty but do a little math, that's almost a 350% improvement just from the damn memory on A LAPTOP, never mind the graphic specs. And since pretty much every game I want on those consoles is offered on steam I'm good to go. The only sticking point for me is the Wii U. I have friends (strangely enough) and the Wii U is pretty freaking awesome with friends. Other then that, yeah its just as stupid as any other console. Why bother with the consumerism when you can build a computer and buy all your favorite games from a third party (very consumer friendly) service? I don't get it.

I caught up on this show with about four episodes in a row, and through the first two I just wanted to say stop buying all this crap if it pisses you off so much (not just you, but consumers who complain about DLC and such) and then you went and said it for me. F-ing brilliant!

Seriously, buy the good stuff if you like it and it's good, and don't buy the bad stuff if it sucks and it's bad. Never buy pre-order and don't do triple A when it first comes out. It's really the bottom line. Does Jim need to remind you to breathe too?
 

Mr_Terrific

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Oct 29, 2011
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I found this interesting, and sums up my feeling on the Jimquisition in general. Nothing but half truths and all of his dtoid fans just take his word for it, instead of actually researching. He's doing this for the hits people....

"Notable industry figure Jim Sterling recently did a video on what he hated about the PlayStation Meeting. At one point, he said that he fully understood why the PS4 couldn?t play PS3 disc games because they had to move away from The Cell, but that there was ?no excuse? for why it couldn?t play PS3 PSN games. Jim, they are developed on The Cell too, they?re like disc games, but not on a disc. That?s the excuse. He then said that the PS Vita can play PS3 PSN games, so the PS4 should be able to. Nope. They have to be ported, redeveloped. And it?s easier to downscale visuals, than upscale. Come on, this is simple stuff that everyone knows, don?t say stuff like: ?The PS Vita can handle PSN content on a PS3?, unless you actually mean they bought a PS Vita game and just happened to download it to the PS3. Which you didn?t, you seem to think I can put Journey on my Vita and it?ll run fine. The cross-play titles are not the same game, Jim."

http://www.playstationlifestyle.net/2013/02/26/daily-reaction-ps4-reveal-negativity-analyzed-trolls-or-truth/

There is some truth behind the mass negativity but we are ignoring the positive. How do you criticize a company for being too samey when they have promised 2 brand new IPs in Beyond and The Last of Us as well as at least 4 during that PS4 show? Pure trolling in my opinion.
 

CapitalistPig

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FedericoV said:
Crono1973 said:
FedericoV said:
Crono1973 said:
Most PC's don't have a GTX 670, 12 GB's of RAM and a quad core. Was the point of this post to brag about YOUR specs?
40% of PC gamers on Steam has a quadcore. They are A LOT and they are probably the most active part of the Steam player base. They are going to be more by the end of the year. Probably more than people with 2 core PCs (wich are 48% of the Steam player base).

Anyway for a PC gamer, an upgrade to the PC like mine for the GPU and RAM to a 3/4 year old CPU cost as much as a PS4 (if the rumors are to be believed). In 6 months, it will cost less. And the software (games) costs less too.

So the point of my post is pretty simple and I'm not bragging about my specs. A PC can change with relative ease: in 6 months most gaming PCs could be upgraded to perform equally or better than any "next-gen" console and you can save the cost thanks to Steam sales or other similar services.

So, your "most gaming PCs will perform worse than a PS4" is simply wrong, false and baseless. The point of console is not power or money. They are just more convenient for the living room and offer a different set of ergonomics.
Yeah, desktops are by far the cheapest and most modifiable gaming powerhouse (in the long run.) I got my 8 core processor on sale for $119 and don't even get me started on memory, they practically give it away. The graphics card is by far the most expensive part clocking in at about $500 for brand new off the shelf, but usually you can find a second gen one for about the price of a new console. Assuming its not a total overhaul and just an upgrade its much more affordable. Not to mention the arbitrary (but not discredited) amount of money you save by being savvy to steam sales. Plus at the end of the day a console is simply an entertainment system. You can't do any real work from a PS3 but I can do all my actual work from my desktop while playing games, or listening to music, or surfing the web, or watching videos.....did I mention its modifiable? :p

just like the mac, consoles can kiss my ass.
 

aelreth

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Dec 26, 2012
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Since corporations are naturally risk averse and publishers by their very nature are larger and more people saying to avoid risk, expecting them to innovate and allow new IP to actually be born is an anomaly rather than the norm.

For better or worse, I believe the publisher model and the console model will be having a creative destruction period by 2015. What comes out will be the future until it too is rendered obsolete.

The future is likely going to be small studios with minimal overhead geared towards fulfilling the need for a niche product. For their size they will max out profits and fulfill a 2 year production cycle.

(Yes I am a Kickstarter fanatic.)
 

aelreth

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Dec 26, 2012
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CapitalistPig said:
Yeah, desktops are by far the cheapest and most modifiable gaming powerhouse (in the long run.) I got my 8 core processor on sale for $119 and don't even get me started on memory, they practically give it away. The graphics card is by far the most expensive part clocking in at about $500 for brand new off the shelf, but usually you can find a second gen one for about the price of a new console. Assuming its not a total overhaul and just an upgrade its much more affordable. Not to mention the arbitrary (but not discredited) amount of money you save by being savvy to steam sales. Plus at the end of the day a console is simply an entertainment system. You can't do any real work from a PS3 but I can do all my actual work from my desktop while playing games, or listening to music, or surfing the web, or watching videos.....did I mention its modifiable? :p

just like the mac, consoles can kiss my ass.
Imagine the 3rd gen APUs.

We will be 2nd gen in the summer.
 

DarkhoIlow

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You can always just switch to PC fully so we can "force" them (by them I'm saying MS, Sony & Nintendo) to use an universal platform without any exclusive games.

Oh, how I dream for something that will never happen because of greediness and the console wars between these companies.

OT however, I fully agree with you Jim. There is no "innovation" in the games that were presented whatsoever. Just sequel, sequel, sequel to existing franchises with boosted up graphics, oh how wonderful!

Yes, there are a few new IP's that have popped up but I can't say that they will be system sellers. Watch Dogs is the only interesting one from the lot, but that is multi platform anyway so doesn't really work. Everything else is all we have seen before, like Jim said <"new generation" but same old bs>.
 

vallorn

Tunnel Open, Communication Open.
Nov 18, 2009
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Mr_Terrific said:
I found this interesting, and sums up my feeling on the Jimquisition in general. Nothing but half truths and all of his dtoid fans just take his word for it, instead of actually researching. He's doing this for the hits people....

"Notable industry figure Jim Sterling recently did a video on what he hated about the PlayStation Meeting. At one point, he said that he fully understood why the PS4 couldn?t play PS3 disc games because they had to move away from The Cell, but that there was ?no excuse? for why it couldn?t play PS3 PSN games. Jim, they are developed on The Cell too, they?re like disc games, but not on a disc. That?s the excuse. He then said that the PS Vita can play PS3 PSN games, so the PS4 should be able to. Nope. They have to be ported, redeveloped. And it?s easier to downscale visuals, than upscale. Come on, this is simple stuff that everyone knows, don?t say stuff like: ?The PS Vita can handle PSN content on a PS3?, unless you actually mean they bought a PS Vita game and just happened to download it to the PS3. Which you didn?t, you seem to think I can put Journey on my Vita and it?ll run fine. The cross-play titles are not the same game, Jim."

http://www.playstationlifestyle.net/2013/02/26/daily-reaction-ps4-reveal-negativity-analyzed-trolls-or-truth/

There is some truth behind the mass negativity but we are ignoring the positive. How do you criticize a company for being too samey when they have promised 2 brand new IPs in Beyond and The Last of Us as well as at least 4 during that PS4 show? Pure trolling in my opinion.
Yes I noted that too (Bottom of page 4 had a bloody good rant on it). Either Jim lacks any kind of knowledge of how programming and processing architecture works or he wouldn't have said something that mind bogglingly dumb.

Suddenly it seems that 2 random people know more about their console than a game journalist and entertainment figure. Shocking I know.
 

Eve Charm

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Aug 10, 2011
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I'm sure it'd be a pain but I'm sure some of the PSN ps3 titles weren't developed with the cell in mind, or hell just take the PC code on multiplatform games and rework it to the PSN. Now ya we won't see stuff like tokyo jungle but junk like Dreamcast sega classics should be available on the PS4
 

Deadagent

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Here's a change to plug my shitty Blog. Adressed to Mister Sterling
http://57005x.blogspot.fi/2013/02/ps4-and-technical-confusion-around-it.html
 

CapitalistPig

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Dec 3, 2011
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aelreth said:
CapitalistPig said:
Yeah, desktops are by far the cheapest and most modifiable gaming powerhouse (in the long run.) I got my 8 core processor on sale for $119 and don't even get me started on memory, they practically give it away. The graphics card is by far the most expensive part clocking in at about $500 for brand new off the shelf, but usually you can find a second gen one for about the price of a new console. Assuming its not a total overhaul and just an upgrade its much more affordable. Not to mention the arbitrary (but not discredited) amount of money you save by being savvy to steam sales. Plus at the end of the day a console is simply an entertainment system. You can't do any real work from a PS3 but I can do all my actual work from my desktop while playing games, or listening to music, or surfing the web, or watching videos.....did I mention its modifiable? :p

just like the mac, consoles can kiss my ass.
Imagine the 3rd gen APUs.

We will be 2nd gen in the summer.
True, but we will still be running games meant for consoles at faster rates and higher graphics for the next 2 years. lol