Jimquisition: Previewed, Preordered, Prescrewed

Whoracle

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Funny anecdote: I preordered exactly ONE game in the last ~15 years of gaming. It was good. It was scary. It was Aliens vs. Predator (PC, 1999). Oh, the irony!
 

Atmos Duality

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Therumancer said:
We shouldn't just sit back and accept this as being "the way things are" and letting people keep lying to us.
I don't accept nor tolerate it, but enough of the market has made it clear that they will.

Simple logic dictates, that the practical need for pre-orders dies with the advent of digital downloads, since the point of pre-orders wasn't to "support the developers" (which doesn't actually happen anyway) or "get extra goodies" (which they will gladly sell outside of pre-orders at a premium), but to reserve a copy of an (initially) limited stock of physical media.
Remove the need for physical media, and all that pre-orders exist for is marketing.

Believe me, I agree with you, but good luck convincing the masses to grow a spine and accept higher standards.

Grenge Di Origin said:
His point that with such a degree of dishonesty it's been taken to with Colonial Marine it's clear that the industry could use a bit of reform.
Yeah, I've been preaching that line for years; well before Jimquisition ever existed.
The solution is remarkably simple, but most gamers lack self-control or any sort of understanding of marketing-manipulation UNTIL they get bit by such a scheme.

I could elaborate at great length about Trust as a commodity and its recent exploitation, but I'd just be wasting everyone's time.
 

MagmaMan

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TheSniperFan said:
MagmaMan said:
[...]As for Bioshock: Infinite the developers, Ken Levine in particular, has more then a decade of trust built up for him. System Shock 2 was and still is one of the best games ever made, and System Shock 1 while not as good was still one of the most terrifying games I've ever played as well as having the usual excellent story and at the least a "unique" atmosphere. Bioshock wasn't quite as amazing as System Shock 2 but still was incredible and I can tell you that just about nothing is going to stop me from getting Infinite because of how much of a fanboy I happen to be for the Shock games. The two franchises are two of the best the gaming medium has to offer and shame on anyone who hasn't played System Shock 2.
Is SS2 really that good?
Those games are from the time before I was a gamer. I've been playing some games from back then however, because neither the next Half-Life, nor the next Fallout are in sight and there weren't any releases lately that I really looked forward to.
I played Half-Life and loved it. I have recently purchased Deus Ex on Steam and will play it as soon as I have more time. SystemShock 2 is also often mentioned as one of the best games of that time. I don't own BioShock myself, but played it a bit years ago. Now it's on the first place of my Steam-wishlist and I will get it once it's on sale. I loved it back then.
I adore it for being so expertly put together. I also want to assure you I'm not saying this with Nostalgia Goggles on, I got into the game a while after I heard of Bioshock. Trust me, it's the better game. Cheaper too on GoG.com.
 

JKain

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Only Game I've ever pre-ordered was Ni No Kuni after reading the brilliant review of one Jim Sterling
Thank God for him! (and later european releases for once)

As I buy most Games after they've already been released for quite a while, they sure need to earn my money (except for EA, who can continue to not try as far as I'm concerned, because I just don't see how they could convince me to ever buy what they publish again....but that's another story)

Also: That Ending with an MJ-interpretation "Aliens Song" was amazing...and almost heart-wrenching

*off to grinding while ignoring "neato"-remarks*
 

Tim Chuma

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I somehow managed to buy Borderlands 2 from a store after it went on sale with the pre-order bonus content. Not sure how that happened. Did not pre-order Aliens Colonial Marines as I did not have the money in the first place, also thought it a bit suss they were already lowering the price before it came out.
 

Lazy Kitty

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May 1, 2009
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Well, if you want them to stop doing that...
Gather an angry mob with torches and pitchforks, go to their studio, burn it down and run their hearts through with a wooden stake.

...Or was that for vampires?
 

Kufaz

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Sep 29, 2009
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Ken seems like a pretty cool guy.
RT @iglevine [https://twitter.com/danrwilliams] give me a reason to preorder. --Nope. I love it but I can't promise you will. We just make the best game we can.

? Ken Levine (@IGLevine) February 20, 2013 [https://twitter.com/IGLevine/status/304259224387592193]
 

wolfyrik

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Jun 18, 2012
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TheSniperFan said:
MagmaMan said:
[...]As for Bioshock: Infinite the developers, Ken Levine in particular, has more then a decade of trust built up for him. System Shock 2 was and still is one of the best games ever made, and System Shock 1 while not as good was still one of the most terrifying games I've ever played as well as having the usual excellent story and at the least a "unique" atmosphere. Bioshock wasn't quite as amazing as System Shock 2 but still was incredible and I can tell you that just about nothing is going to stop me from getting Infinite because of how much of a fanboy I happen to be for the Shock games. The two franchises are two of the best the gaming medium has to offer and shame on anyone who hasn't played System Shock 2.
Is SS2 really that good?
Those games are from the time before I was a gamer. I've been playing some games from back then however, because neither the next Half-Life, nor the next Fallout are in sight and there weren't any releases lately that I really looked forward to.
I played Half-Life and loved it. I have recently purchased Deus Ex on Steam and will play it as soon as I have more time. SystemShock 2 is also often mentioned as one of the best games of that time. I don't own BioShock myself, but played it a bit years ago. Now it's on the first place of my Steam-wishlist and I will get it once it's on sale. I loved it back then.
If you don't mind dated graphics then SS2 is damned excellent. I actually wasn't that keen on Bioshock, I found it painfully lacking, linear and not at all scary. Sure it was wierd, but both gmaes have that in abundance. SS2 genuinely freaked me out, it just has this amazing atmosphere and the story progresses so much better, more through experiences, rather than just recordings, despite the fact that the map is more open to exploration. Also, The Many.
 

Soak

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Can we please make something more out of this episode? A movie maybe?
The hatred, the love, the intrigue and loyalty, the drama and tragic towards the end, the roars of despise and the bitter-sweet song of loss. This had everything! I'm so touched.

On topic: You are absolutely right, as always of course. I have never pre-ordered any game, or anything by that matter until now and i think i haven't lost anything by doing so. The way game-developers & publishers use "hype" right now is, ehm, "interesting"?! I don't want to say it is utter shit, because those who get hyped are just as part of it as those who utilize it and honestly, while i'm seldom hyped, sometimes it just happens. For me, lately it happened with Skyrim and Dishonored and while both aren't perfect, i was not disapointed. I'm also more or less hyped on Bioshock Infinite, as it was already brought up as another example which is hyped right now but hard to predict if it can stand up to this hype. I loved Biosock and B2 and even tried some Systemshock 2 in between, loved all of it and therefore want Infinite to succeed in this series, but at the same time i got an eye on most of the trailers and stuff and became skeptical, if some of the bigger changes - like giving the protagonist an actual face and character and by that maybe cutting the focus on the ideas presented throughout the game - will be for better or worse. And while i haven't preordered it, it is likely i will get it rather soon after it hits the stores. Will have to see if i really want this series to continue or not and if i will praise or rant on the developers for riding the hype train on that one.
However, i'm starting to wonder if the game-industry, or the majority of the entertainment industry for that matter, might need another breakdown to realize, that the ways it is run now might not be "the best".

And as always, an amen and thank god for you, Jim.
 

Redux87

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Apr 21, 2009
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tell me if this sounds stupid. You want me to pay you for something that you have not completed, can't show me even a prototype of said product, and it won't be finished for at least a full year from today!? And yes there are people stupid enough to have actually done that, just ask your local gametop rep
 

Nazulu

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Jun 5, 2008
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The last time I was going to pre-order a game was when Starcraft 2 was coming out, but then I canceled it because of their complete bullshit Bnet thing and other restrictions.

This loss of trust has been going on longer than that though. It should have always been that they make the money for making a great product, not us getting swindled and treated like thieves because of all their shitty excuses. I still can't believe how bland all the media has become these days.
 

Atmos Duality

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wolfyrik said:
If you don't mind dated graphics then SS2 is damned excellent. I actually wasn't that keen on Bioshock, I found it painfully lacking, linear and not at all scary. Sure it was wierd, but both gmaes have that in abundance. SS2 genuinely freaked me out, it just has this amazing atmosphere and the story progresses so much better, more through experiences, rather than just recordings, despite the fact that the map is more open to exploration. Also, The Many.
Having just played through SS2 recently (finished it last night)..
It's actually quite linear in places; not nearly to the same degree as Bioshock (which also had open-ended stages, actually. It just seems more linear if all you do is blindly follow the objective arrow), but with the exception of the Operations and Recreation decks, most of the game is linear or looped.

Incredible game though. It can be ball-crushingly difficult too; compared to Bioshock's complete lack of difficulty.
 

Lancer873

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kajinking said:
OK First off at the end there I really half expected Jim to break out some bagpipes or something and give the alien a proper Spock funeral (Althought I doubt Jim just happens to know how to play bagpipes or even own any)

(snip)

To be be more OT I have to wonder if any of the other developers are watching this situation or are even concerned by it? I'd think that a massive wave of anti-preorder feelings might get their attention. Think they might do anything diffrent in it's wake?
I was expecting something more along the lines of this:

And to respond to your OT: Not necessarily. A lack of preorder purchases won't hurt a good game at all, since people will just wise up and buy it later (And it won't even be on sale! Can you believe that?) If the people all speak together, then maybe, MAYBE, developers will quit trying underhanded tactics to get people to pre-order terrible games like this, but they'll still do pre-orders for pretty much every game even if pre-orders decrease. They'll just change the tactics a little bit.

As far as my OT: I can say that pre-orders are extremely rare for me. I think I can list all of the pre-orders I ever made:
LittleBigPlanet 2 (It was a collectors edition even.) I was confident in their abilities, and I was a big enough fan that I probably would have gotten it unless it was absolute and total trash. (it was not)

Patapon (1, 2, and 3 even.) These were all 5 dollar pre-orders, not full pre-orders. Admittedly I did it mostly for the extra content (which they ended up releasing for free a couple days before the launch each time anyways) The "extra content" was a demo that you'd get an extra in-game item for beating. Usually either a spear or a decent hat.

My only real transgression would be pre-ordering Quantum Conundrum. It was largely for the slight price decrease and the TF2 items. I was admittedly caught up in just the same hype as everyone else. I mean, it was a puzzle game by one of the minds behind Portal, and the concept sounded just great! Thankfully it still turned out pretty good (enough that it was worth 15 dollars anyways).
 

wolfyrik

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Atmos Duality said:
wolfyrik said:
If you don't mind dated graphics then SS2 is damned excellent. I actually wasn't that keen on Bioshock, I found it painfully lacking, linear and not at all scary. Sure it was wierd, but both gmaes have that in abundance. SS2 genuinely freaked me out, it just has this amazing atmosphere and the story progresses so much better, more through experiences, rather than just recordings, despite the fact that the map is more open to exploration. Also, The Many.
Having just played through SS2 recently (finished it last night)..
It's actually quite linear in places; not nearly to the same degree as Bioshock (which also had open-ended stages, actually. It just seems more linear if all you do is blindly follow the objective arrow), but with the exception of the Operations and Recreation decks, most of the game is linear or looped.

Incredible game though. It can be ball-crushingly difficult too; compared to Bioshock's complete lack of difficulty.
I don't doubt that you're right. Rose tinted lenses and all that. I think for me the tho, it's more personal taste. Elements that were in SS2 which didn't appear in Bioshock, so small that no oensel would really notice them individually, but for me the the lack of the many just pushed it over the edge.

Don't get me wrong, Bioshock is an amazing piece of work in it's own right, good story, well designed enemies and a beautiful world to explore, it just wasn't quite what I was hoping. The pschological effect of the many, the nannies were much more horrific to me. I think it's the fact that these things you were fighting, were once people, transformed against their will and their minds enslaved. Recordings and visions made you feel sorry for what they had become, empathise with them even, which is profoundly horrific. It's the Same reason the Borg and Cyber-men are such popular enemies. Whereas the splicers, most of them were dicks who turned themselves into super-powered, crazy dicks. It just doesn't have the same impact.

Anyways this is waaaaay off topic. Sorry.

As for the Avp2010/A:CM comparison vids, I didn't remember how great AvP looked in multiplayer or realise how bad A:CM was til I saw the comparison of MP mode. My heart just sank further. I've got and played through both games, but it wasn't til seeing them side by side that the true blasphemy of A:CM really hit me.

Dissapointed!!!
 

Eve Charm

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Preorder, don't prepurchase. If you want the extra bells and whistles of the bonuses or just the fact you know you can walk into a store and buy it. ((fire emblem awakening was sold out for weeks till finally restocked ;p))

You can always cancel the preorder later and at worse they will hold the bonus and game for AT LEAST 48 hours, long enough for review embargos to lift and to watch some guy streaming it on twitch.

But ya screw season passes, if your not giving me something RIGHT NOW it's wasting time.
 

Peeb

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This is why only pre-order from publishers I 120% trust. CD Projekt Red and Valve come to mind.
 

Jabbawocky

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This video has made me think about games I've pre-ordered. All have been for this generation:

Alan Wake - Loved it. Bought based on Remedy's Max Payne games.
Bioshock 2 - Mildly disappointed. Bought based on previous game.
Mass Effect 3 - Mostly liked it. Bought based on previous games.
Max Payne 3- Loved it. See Alan Wake.
Resident Evil 5 - Liked it. Sold by a pre-release demo.

Curently have a pre-order on GTA V.

I tend to pre-order only if I trust a developer/publisher or have good experiences from previous games in the same series. I tend to be way of unproven IPs.
 

jpoon

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Excellent video Jim, well spoken. Stop preordering shit, it's a stupidly unnecessary habit that people have got themselves into. I've avoided preordering for the last year and it has hurt me not even a single day.
 

viranimus

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Nov 20, 2009
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LOL Jim Jim Jim.

You should know better. You would have better luck asking gamers to stop using Steam.

You seem to forget. Ignorance is bliss. Gamers typically dont care what damage they do to the industry or other gamers. So long as they are happy, to the individual thats all that matters.

And you cant blame developers for being this fixated on preorders. How else do you get a chance to get people to pay full price for mediocre content that will have to be dropped in price within the first week due to horrible ratings? I mean the movie industry does similar things, so its not surprising publishers do it too.

So while your fanbase with all applaud you for saying it and attest to how they personally never contributed to this problem, you arent going to see any sort of effect for an impassioned plea formed out of logic and reason. You might as well have been speaking in binary.