uanime5 said:
He was talking about real life, not video games, so your objection is essentially meaningless.
Video games are a cultural phenomenon in real life, so your commentary is meaningless.
uanime5 said:
Or the person could stop leading the other person. But that usually means that a woman has to stop using a man to buy her things.
You didn't read the post. If both parties are using the other than neither is the friend of the other. Of course, for the misogynist, it doesn't matter if the man uses the woman: only then would your comment not be completely wrongheaded.
As I said pretty clearly before, if neither person is the friend of the other and they're both users, neither party can be mad if their manipulation fails to pay off. You can't come to the issue with unclean hands then whine like a little *****.
Icehearted said:
You think female sexuality is treated with scorn? That is absolutely wrong.
"Absolutely" is exactly the kind of overreaching term you'd expect from a tremendously wrong view on the internet. To wit:
Icehearted said:
Maybe if the last time you checked was the 1700s but in this day and age it's all about the empowered women. Read a few articles on The Frisky just to see what the radicals have to say about it
"It's all about" describes a fad, like repetively saying "bodacious" and "innovation." An actual cultural change of significance would hardly be described so: medical hygine used to be terrible, so are we "all about" handwashing in hospitals now? Naw, your talking some b.s., and I think you know it. And I have no idea what the "frisky" is.
Icehearted said:
I've never encountered a woman that felt her sexuality was hindered, on the contrary they very much rule the bedroom.
Yes! Anecdotal evidence from an outside biased observer in direct contradiction to both sociological data and a multitude of voices from the other side! That will carry the day.
Icehearted said:
Sex and the city exulted this, as well as female sexual independence. Bridge Jones' Diary, The Big Empty, The Big Lebowsky (which was actually also about castration and the loss of male empowerment) --
Wait, WTF? A terrible show about sexually promiscuous women -- women who have racial and class privilege, no less, who live in a fantasy where their behavior is never challenged nor leads to any serious complications -- that's your example? And keep in mind, huge swathes of the country
hated that show for the very reason you seem to claim it to be significant.
And how the hell does the The Big Lebowski help your claim? Do you seriously believe that human sexual relations are a zero-sum game, such that weak males must be good for females? Do you not see how, well, sick, that view is? And if that wasn't the point of the example, what on God's green Earth was the point?
You're not just cherry-picking examples, you're cherry-picking
bad examples, examples that don't support your view, but simply muddy the waters. The female form is still subject to objectification in a way that the male form is not. Hell, Jim literally did a show about that not two months ago. The fact that not every example of ever piece of media produced in modern civilization does not turn women into sequestered prostitutes does not make this somehow untrue. (How would that even work!?)
You could have, I don't know, asked a scientist:
http://psychcentral.com/news/2013/06/04/double-standard-alive-well-in-views-on-promiscuity/55586.html
Picked at random; one could spend a lifetime on this stuff. (This reminds me of a time where someone claimed that the Catholic Church isn't regarded as conservative -- where do you even start?)
Icehearted said:
Male sexuality is on the other hand usually a joke, it is mocked, derided, or like in Lebowsky it's used in a way to signify the disempowered male.
There you go with that zero-sum deal again. On top of that, you're cherry-picking as well, since, oh, I don't know,
the entire James Bond franchise depends upon your views being utterly wrong. Male sexual success can be openly celebrated more freely than female sexual success -- hell, that was why Sex in the City was controversial in the first place. You're at cross-purposes: if portraying female sexuality in a positive light was the default, why would so many media entities that do so be notable? I don't have to bring up hospitals that practice handwashing; instead, only the hospitals that don't are notable now, because that's a change in human society that has actually happened. As opposed to what you're suggesting.
Icehearted said:
Male masturbation is symbolic for being a sexual failure
Swing and a miss, because, even in that zero-sum universe you're describing, this just happened:
http://www.salon.com/2013/10/15/why_is_masturbation_more_shocking_than_sex/
Masturbation is simply something that censors are never quite happy about, and they seem to be more bothered by female examples than males -- but the latter is debatable. Either way, masturbation receives equal opportunity "ick" from both genders on the world stage.
Icehearted said:
In society at large, female sexuality independence has become weaponized, specifically because the laws protecting people from being exploited or harmed sexually favor women.
And now we're just into misogynistic propaganda. This is a culture where this can still happen:
http://www.motherjones.com/mojo/2013/10/maryville-anonymous-football-rape-case
Victim-blaming still occurs, and the notion that anti-rape laws are somehow bad for men is beneath contempt, the pathetic spew of misogynists pining for an unjust past. And it's spew that conveniently forgets that anti-rape laws also protect men who have been raped with equal force, something that can only be forgotten when one is absorbed in one's own self-serving interests. . .
Icehearted said:
I'm not saying everyone is like this, and I can honestly say most (not all) women I know agree with me on this completely.
No one cares what your girlfriend in Canada thinks; there are seven billion people on the planet, and a good chunk of them in the broad culture at issue presently. In the really real world that exists outside of the hypothetical social circle of someone in the internet, you are in serious error, and it's the real world that's under discussion.
But hey, let's play along for a moment.
Icehearted said:
Male sexual shaming is in, female sexual empowerment rules the day.
I have spent an unfortunate amount of time in conservative states and in fundamentalist, religious cultures and organizations, as well as extremely liberal communities, and I have never personally witnessed a significant amount of male shaming in any community, nor seen significant amounts of it in the media.
So do my anecdotes beat yours? Sure, because I'm me and I value my subjective experience over those of an internet entity that may or may not be able to beat a Turning test! Okay, relying on bullshit anecdotes is certainly
fun, I'll grant you that.
