Jimquisition: Sexual Failing

Jimothy Sterling

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Goliath100 said:
Why do this feel like filler episode? Maybe because this should be bloody obvious for everyone. Know what, would probably be more progressive and mature to just make it a one-night stand and drop the talking.
I can assure you this is not filler material. In fact, I attempted to do this episode in my pre-Escapist, non-scripted days and only gave up because I got pissed off fucking up what I was trying to say. I've been looking for an excuse to revisit the topic for about four years now, and relished the chance to do it again.

So yeah, this is FAR from filler. Kinda sad you feel it looks like it is, but trust me, I've been waiting for this one.
 

RJ Dalton

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I couldn't have said it better myself. Although I could certainly have said it at greater length. Does that count for anything?
 

Garfy

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My relationship with Anders in Dragon Age 2 certainly had an impact on the plot, made me hesitate before punishing him for his actions at the end of the game.

Still did it tho, just made me think twice for a bit.
 

vallorn

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Nov 18, 2009
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Jim can I take you up on that offer for porn you made at the end of the video? :p

(This is a joke)

OT: Good as always even if it did feel like you were repeating yourself a bit there.
 

themilo504

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I think that no movie TV show or game should have sex scenes unless its porn, sex scenes are completely pointless in a story since there?s nothing a cut to black can?t achieve, the only point of sex scenes is to titillate the watchers/readers/gamers and maybe it?s because I?m(possibly) a asexual but I think that?s a terrible reason that has no place in a good story.

In the past I tried out a romance subplot of mass effect and dragon age because I was curious how they worked, nowadays I always ignore them and it does bug me how sometimes even if I show zero interest a potential love interest still wants to start a relation.

I do however always pair off my avatar in fire emblem awakening for game play reasons, and when I play a human noble in dragon age origins I always marry the queen so that I can become king.
 

Urh

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ColdinT said:
Huh. According to Jim, the definition of the "Friend Zone" has changed a bit from what I remember.
I think it is a term that means different things to different people. Jim simply chose the most vile definition. I use "being stuck in the friend zone" to describe my awkwardness and anxiety that makes it nearly impossible for me to pursue relationships with women beyond friendship. I don't feel any sense of entitlement. I just see couples around me and all I can think is "now why the hell can't I do that?" It just makes me feel like a complete social retard. It doesn't help the few relationships I have had have all ended rather badly.
 

Darth_Payn

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I love it when Jim rips on the works of David Cage; the people in them look creepier than most other video game characters when they attempt to simulate "emotions". Doesn't make up for the crap story writing. I laughed when Jim said pornos have a more mature approach to sex in relationships; where do you think game devs get their ideas? Although I would like to know from which film Jim got that final screenshot.

And Yahtzee was right, the "shocking" moment in MW3 did nothing but be hallow and manipulative. Or I suppose CoD is one of those game series where "the story doesn't matter!" to quote the fanboys.
 

Imp_Emissary

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Legion said:
Imp Emissary said:
Was kind of talking about this with a friend a bit ago.
I really wish they replaced the sex scenes with something a little more interesting to do. Like say taking them out on dates as a mini quest after you make the relationship "official". Get to know the characters, just for the sake of getting to know them. Instead of getting to know them so you can get into their pants easier.
Then the game gets called a dating simulator and the "You need a girlfriend/boyfriend" comments start. On the Bioware forums a lot of people wanted this for Mass Effect 2 as DLC or in Mass Effect 3. The people against it stated the above as the reason for why it shouldn't. They saw it as perpetuating the lonely nerd stereotype.
xD Don't people already make those comments?

Also, as for it being called a "dating sim", I guess I'd have to ask; So?

They already kind of are, except we don't get to send as much time just learning about the character. And as for the "you Girlfriend/Boyfriend" thing, I know of a fair amount of people who play Mass Effect/Dragon Age who take the romances "seriously", and who are married in real life.

The "dates" wouldn't be there to make the characters into a substitute for a spouse, but rather they would be there so we could get to learn more about the characters. Something I would imagine people who really like the characters would enjoy.

The most interesting thing about sleeping with Isabela in Dragon Age 2 was that you could then learn more about her past.

As for the dates themselves, they don't necessarily have to just be going to some restaurant or something "ordinary" like that.

It could, like I said, be a quest you do with just them.
Like exploring a derelict Geth ship with Tali, going sailing with Isabela(and most likely having to fight off raiders), or going off with Garrus to practice shooting.

Heck, some off those things are already done with the characters, and you don't even need to be in a relationship with them to go. In fact, it would just be nice to be able to do more quests with your companions, and get to know them better while playing the game.

The "dates" wouldn't need to be too different from that, except in the narrative the player's character is in a relationship with them.
 

Rodolphe Kourkenko

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Well... Since ME2, Bioware is just an overhyped developer which, to have little attention, tease about pixelised sex to make people speak about them.

And it work.

More seriously, i'm a PR guy and since the Me3 backlash i'm watching Bioware (statistics, PR move, Interview etc...) to see how they'll handle the situation.
I'll just say ONE thing: with the teasing about nude pixelised sex scene, the BSN got a surge of +324% of visits in two days.
I am happy not to be part of their fans but I find this to be a depressing situation.
Why ? Because Bioware teased about graphics, combats, gameplay and nothing worked. They teased about pixelised sex and their fan base is back...
Do you agree with me ?
 

Falseprophet

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Garfy said:
My relationship with Anders in Dragon Age 2 certainly had an impact on the plot, made me hesitate before punishing him for his actions at the end of the game.

Still did it tho, just made me think twice for a bit.
Same thing with me. I as a player saw it coming miles away, but my Hawke was blinded by love and trust, and in the end was so hurt by the betrayal, she reacted harshly.

See, DA2 tried to actually incorporate long-term relationships into its story. And like most things in DA2, it was a really good idea marred by poor execution and a rushed product. But it allowed you to enter into a long-term relationship with one of your companions, and that relationship could be based on Friendship or Rivalry. Hey, just like real life, it's possible to be in a relationship with a person who's bad for you! Or with someone whose views on the world don't alter to suit yours just because you're sharing a bed! And then it allowed someone who loved you to still betray you because they were their own person with their own feelings and agendas.

That was pretty mature writing to me. Sometimes people are going to do what they're going to do despite their feelings for you, or how many pretty words you've spoken, or nice presents you've given them, or struggles you've shared. They're still their own person in the end. Definitely several levels above the romance-writing in DA:O. (Except maybe Zevran's. Romancing him is actually pretty interesting if you really think about his background.) A shame the rest of DA2 couldn't stand next to the character work.
 

LiquidGrape

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Dragon Age 2 is a great argument to the contrary, actually. Isabela, for example, whose sex scene occurs in the first act and is nowhere near the romantic climax of that relationship.

Did you ever play the game? Just curious since it would've deflated pretty much this entire issue.
 
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I think what bioware is getting at is that the sex scenes will be less revealing, which is pretty much exactly what I want.

I enjoyed a lot of the romances in bioware games (best example would be Jack in ME 2) but the sex scenes always seemed awkward and pointless. "Fade to black" always seemed like a better conclusion.

I think Jim is being overly harsh here, it's one of the first times I've felt like he's pointlessly exaggerating. I agree with his point, just not nearly to the same degree he does. Sex scenes are not universally awful, and at worst they're mildly annoying.
 

AntiChrist

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Sushewakka said:
Hawkeye21 said:
quantumsoul said:
In Dragon Age: Origins sex wasn't the always the endgame. If you pursue Morrigan you can have sex from the start but later on in the romance she even refuses sex if she is in love. I wont spoil anything but her romance becomes about something far greater than just sex. There is even DLC to continue the romance past the main game and there isn't even sex at the end of it.
But then developers chickened out and refused to continue that storyline any further. Yah, sure, we know that Morrigan is going to be in Inquisition, but protagonist is not Gray Warden from the first game, so whats the point. It really buggers me when devs start a great story line and then refuse to give it an appropriate ending, thus completely making the whole thing meaningless.
(SPOILERS FOR DRAGON AGE: ORIGINS)

After using the Warden to complete her Old God Baby plot, or after the Warden refuses to play his role in that plot, she leaves. Surprise, she has her own agenda and motivations, and will see them finished, the Warden becoming little more than an obstacle at this point. She might feel a tinge of regret and be conflicted about her newfound ability to feel emotions, but she's her own person with her own plans.

There, that's your conclusion. She leaves you.
That's true. In a way, I feel that the Witch Hunt DLC, where you get to join Morrigan and "live happily ever after" is sort of a cop out - the story between the Warden and Morrigan had already been concluded. Not every love story needs to have a happy ending.
 

Lieju

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I'm not about to believe Jim has ever had sex with anyone. There is no man or woman alive who could handle that level of raw sexiness. (Unless maybe he has managed to clone himself)

personally I liked the way the sex-scenes were in DA2; they got across the character's personality, they weren't 'tasteless', as in not much uncanney-valley-esque nudity was involved.

The way the relationships were written was lacking, though, which I blame for the short development-time. It was way too easy to mess up your chances, because there was just the certain way the game wanted the romance to evolve, which led you to picking who you want to romance, rather than having the relationship develop more naturally.

And at least with the romances with Morrigan and Isabela sex is not the endgame in the relationship; they both will sleep with you easily, but the relationship develops after that, and I'm pretty sure Morrigan will stop sleeping with you if she falls in love with you because feelings.

Also they did adress this issue to some extent in the DA2.

In DAO you get the achievement for romance if you have sex with the character, in the sequel you get an achievement for flirting, and for the romance, which you get when you talk to your love interest before the final battle; it changes it from the sex being what you pursue to relationship being the goal, with sex something that happens on the way.
 

kmg90

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orangeapples said:
I like God of War's approach to sex. You get a mini-game and if you do bad the girls are disappointed and Kratos just stands there thinking, "I swear, this has never happened to me before. Let me try it again." because that's all sex is, right? a really awkward minigame with quicktime events and a failstate that leaves everyone disappointed and some people crying in shame. but you do get better with practice.
/thread
Avoiding the ban-hammer with one worded reply,

I've always found "romance side quests" in games to be exactly how Jim explains it. It's an attempt at maturity and in some cases trying to scream "I am art, lets add nudity cause that's art in racey way"

I see Mature video games taking cues from Premium networks that have original programming (HBO, Showtime, Max)as in it's Mature and it isn't regular cable, so lets have a drawn out sex scene that adds nothing important to the overall story.
 

Colt47

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Honestly, most of the sex scenes in the Dragon Age and Mass Effect games were weird. Largely because outside of a few moments things just didn't seem to add up. Sex really isn't an indicator of how close someone is to someone else on it's own unless the decision involves family making or ties into some personality quirk. But then if the whole decision was based on family making, the indicator of closeness would be the decision to make a family rather than the act of sex itself.
 

Spiridion

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Sushewakka said:
Hawkeye21 said:
quantumsoul said:
In Dragon Age: Origins sex wasn't the always the endgame. If you pursue Morrigan you can have sex from the start but later on in the romance she even refuses sex if she is in love. I wont spoil anything but her romance becomes about something far greater than just sex. There is even DLC to continue the romance past the main game and there isn't even sex at the end of it.
But then developers chickened out and refused to continue that storyline any further. Yah, sure, we know that Morrigan is going to be in Inquisition, but protagonist is not Gray Warden from the first game, so whats the point. It really buggers me when devs start a great story line and then refuse to give it an appropriate ending, thus completely making the whole thing meaningless.
(SPOILERS FOR DRAGON AGE: ORIGINS)

After using the Warden to complete her Old God Baby plot, or after the Warden refuses to play his role in that plot, she leaves. Surprise, she has her own agenda and motivations, and will see them finished, the Warden becoming little more than an obstacle at this point. She might feel a tinge of regret and be conflicted about her newfound ability to feel emotions, but she's her own person with her own plans.

There, that's your conclusion. She leaves you.
I will preface this by saying that I haven't actually played this DLC so I can't offer commentary on how much it added to the narrative as a whole. But, I do know that if you play Witch Hunt:
You have the opportunity to find Morrigan again and if you were in a romance and chose to have a kid with her it's possible to go with her at the end and it's implied that you'll get to meet the child.

In regards to the broader topic, I actually rather like Bioware romances. But I do tend to skip the actual "sex scenes" since they mostly just look awkward and don't really add to the experience for me. As someone that likes to play games for the story/characters, the aspect of getting to know a character better is the appealing part of romances options for me. I know some people will just bang everyone in the camp/on the ship because they can, but at least when I play I tend to choose one person I actually like/want to get to know as a character and stick with them, which does give the romance a bit more significance. I may, however, romance a different character on a different playthrough, depending on the sort of character I'm playing, at least in DA:O. In Mass Effect I could never bring myself to romance anyone but Liara, and in DA2 I just sort of wanted to punch everyone but Isabella so I'm pretty "committed" in those games I guess. And if I choose to play a female character in KotOR I tend to not romance anyone, because even though there are options, none of them interest me.

I will say, however, that I don't like the idea of attaching achievements to romance options, because then they do become a goal rather than something that just progresses "naturally."
 

Hawkeye21

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Sushewakka said:
After using the Warden to complete her Old God Baby plot, or after the Warden refuses to play his role in that plot, she leaves. Surprise, she has her own agenda and motivations, and will see them finished, the Warden becoming little more than an obstacle at this point. She might feel a tinge of regret and be conflicted about her newfound ability to feel emotions, but she's her own person with her own plans.

There, that's your conclusion. She leaves you.
There is no resolution in this so called "conclusion", this is a non-ending, sort of like a cliff-hanger. The whole "witch hunt DLC" was bullshit from start to finish. It's just a cheap cop-out of the plot. I suppose it could also count as a sequel-hook, except sequel makes little to no mention of Morrigan.