Jimquisition: Stupid Sexy Bayonetta

Coreless

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aegix drakan said:
Good video. Bayonetta has always been an interesting character for me, (even though I haven't played the games yet) because of how she's so over the top. So much so that really, it feels like she's mocking the kinds of people who wanna use her for fapping material. It's like she's going "Oh, you think this is hot, do you? Well, guess what, you wouldn't stand a chance with me, kiddo. I'll make you insecure that you wouldn't stand a ghost of a chance with any woman as badass as me."

In any case, I'm here mostly for the comments that totally miss the point.

Coreless said:
Love the progressive mentality when it comes to twisting narratives, now you aren't even aloud to speak your mind anymore because now you have to frame any conversation in a way they demand or they won't even listen to you lol. So much for freedom of speech and due process because if they can cut you off before you speak or are even get a chance to defend yourself then they win by default.
Eh? Didn't Jim actually say discussion of Bayonetta was GOOD and we should be having it? Or did you watch a totally different video than me?

Or are you referring to that he said at the beginning of the video?

If so, in WHAT scenario is it appropriate to say "I wholeheartedly condemn death threats against group X, However 'Argument'"? I mean, aside from "I wholeheartedly condemn death threats, however if you're a fascist dictator committing genocide and having kids send to the firing squad for your amusement, you really have to expect that kind of thing because you are an irredeemable monster"?

Seriously. In WHAT situation is it appropriate and productive to threaten to kill someone who isn't outright threatening to literally kill YOU?

There's a difference between the "must speak in exactly progressive tone and not have contrary opinion or be considered idiot beep boop" thing you're suggesting and the "Yeah, I'll use common sense and not be a massive douche" reality of arguments. Appending a "however" argument to just about any instance of "I condemn death threats" is a violation of the second one, not the first.

Captcha: "Have an Inkling" Yes, you really should.
People can say "lets have a discussion" all they want but if a person has to frame their speech in such a way that if they don't, they won't even get listened to then quite frankly that isn't a discussion, that is one side controlling the narrative. Appending a "however" doesn't take away from the fact that the person was harassed and doesn't make your non consent disappear in a puff of smoke, if a situation happened that requires investigation then you need to pursue it no matter what happened or what was said. You don't get immunity from investigation because something horrific did or might have happened to you, I'm sorry if that comes off as insensitive but facts will always trump feelings when it comes to serious issues like these.

Captcha: "if you want to be condescending just do it, no need to make up catchas", yes I concur [/quote]
 

Zeles

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Thanatos2k said:
There is a difference between saying "I have personal problems with Bayonetta as a character" and "Everyone should have personal problems with Bayonetta as a character, I'm docking the score to show this to you and to punish the developers, and if you think otherwise I'm deleting your comments."

And this is why game journalism needs to be reformed.
I feel like this depends on what a game "review" actually is, and what kind of content the website in and of it self produces.

Is a review just an article saying this game is good because x but bad because y?

Or is it the author's experience with the game and what they enjoyed and disliked?

When I look at reviews, I want to see what a certain reviewer thinks of a game. I trust the reviewers on this website, and so I want to see what they thought of a game I have interest in. But other people may just want to know if a game is good or not, which is difficult because what makes a game 'good' to one person may not make it so to another.

It sounds like the Polygon reviewer was writing the second kind of article.

Because there aren't any rules about what kind of article a gaming journalist has to write (in fact someone doesn't even have to be a journalist, they could just be a blogger) this means that the kind of review one is going to see varies from website to website, and even varies between individual publishers on the SAME website.
 

Kuro Serpentina

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MarsAtlas said:
Kuro Serpentina said:
While I agree with Jim about the points he was making, the reasons he were making the points seems a bit off
From what I've heard about the Polygon review thing centres around a certain level of hypocrisy from the reviewer, who is known to often visit a smut site where women in various arrays of undress post up for viewer enjoyment, which reach and even surpass the levels of "Fanservice" Bayonetta has become partly known for; which has let many, quite rightly in my opinion, to call foul on the reviewer for condemning it while indulging in an extremely similar thing in his own time.
Have you ever considered that some people find it uncomfortable when people try tp inject sex into a beat-em-up videogame? That maybe some people like to keep their sexual fantasies in one realm and videogames in another? That maybe many people don't play games for masturbation material but for a difference experience? It doesn't necessarily make you a prude because you don't like sex in videogames, and in my experience, most people don't like it because they don't want sexual fantasies in the same realm as gaming. I can only speak for myself, but if I wanted porn, I'd go watch porn. If I wanted a lap dance, I'd go get a lap dance, not experience a lap dance between shooting galleries in Duke Nukem. Its the same reason that when people generally want some excitement in their life and do something, like, say, skydiving, they don't bring sex workers skydiving with them.
I feel I must stress that I personally hold no stakes in this matter. In the end of the day, I see this whole thing as just a couple of parasites called man fighting on another over ethics and viewpoints.
I am simply relaying other sides of the story.
Kindly do not shoot the messenger, least he be forced to shoot back
 

Ulquiorra4sama

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Don Incognito said:
Thanatos2k said:
There is a difference between saying "I have personal problems with Bayonetta as a character" and "Everyone should have personal problems with Bayonetta as a character, I'm docking the score to show this to you and to punish the developers, and if you think otherwise I'm deleting your comments."

And this is why game journalism needs to be reformed.
And this is why you need to support your claim with evidence.

Kindly demonstrate where someone said "Everyone should have personal problems with Bayonetta as a character, I'm docking the score to show this to you and to punish the developers, and if you think otherwise I'm deleting your comments."
Well you could just look at the Polygon review for one example

http://www.polygon.com/2014/10/13/6957677/bayonetta-2-review-wii-u

For opinions presented as facts, personal issues on the level of the reviewer detracting from the score, etc. Whether or not Polygon's been deleting disagreeing comments i couldn't say 'cause there's no way to confirm that without talking to people whose comments have been deleted.

OT: Well it's a character action game from Platinum. Of course i'm gonna buy it. Whether it's Raiden jumping around and doing ridiculous poses or Bayonetta the game's gonna be amazing.

EDIT: Jumping around doing ridiculous poses in high heels.
 

Neonit

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I cant be the only one thinking that lowering game score for something that is quite obvious and subjective is stupid.

Thats like someone saying that gta v is a bad game, because it has theft in it, and that someone doesnt feel comfortable with theft. 7/10.

Unless of course, that is the shtick of your entire website/magazine/youtube channel.
For example, i would be fine if this was on "Game reviews for people who hate crime!" - then you can assume that your audience follows your ideals on crime.

But doing it on a fairly generic and "appeal to everyone" website?

Quite stupid.
 

Steve2911

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Reviews are personal opinions. Neither you, the developers or the world at large are under any obligation to care what someone at Polygon thinks, if you don't align yourself with their views.

To suggest that someone shouldn't be allowed to post a review because you disagree with their reasoning is the most thoughtless, backwards nonsense imaginable. Even if people are put off by the game, they are people who take that reviewer's opinions into account when making a purchasing decision. It's their choice to buy or not to buy. If you want that sort of influence, write reviews yourself and maybe someone will pay you for them one day. If not, fuck off.

neonit said:
But doing it on a fairly generic and "appeal to everyone" website?
This isn't a thing that exists. No reviewer (and by reviewer I mean person, not publication) sets out to create a blanket view for everyone to follow. That's ludicrous.
 

Zontar

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Hey Jim, since you have a problem with harassment, could you come out and say attacking gamers because they hold a different opinion then you is wrong? Since, you know, it's happening on a similar (or arguably greater) level then what you spend the first 40 seconds of the video complaining about.

On the main topic, it's hard to have a discussion on these issues since the largest part of those both in the industry and outside of it who are publicizing the issue are ones who do not debate, only state. No criticism, no counters to their argument, is ever responded to or permitted. It's impossible to have a discussion on an issue when one side isn't willing to talk about it outside of stating how they feel about it then ignoring everything else.
 

Kuro Serpentina

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klaynexas3 said:
Kuro Serpentina said:
While I agree with Jim about the points he was making, the reasons he were making the points seems a bit off
From what I've heard about the Polygon review thing centres around a certain level of hypocrisy from the reviewer, who is known to often visit a smut site where women in various arrays of undress post up for viewer enjoyment, which reach and even surpass the levels of "Fanservice" Bayonetta has become partly known for; which has let many, quite rightly in my opinion, to call foul on the reviewer for condemning it while indulging in an extremely similar thing in his own time.
Makes the whole thing sound a tad disingenuous.
As for the whole discussing of these sorts of things, yeah that would be awesome... however the whole mess that the community at large is currently embroiled in is in no small part due to a lack to out right refusal to discus things
I don't see how it's that far off or even hypocritical. Now, I haven't read the review myself, but there's a context for everything, and so while the reviewer might enjoy watching porn, that doesn't mean he feels comfortable with it being outside of the context of which he establishes when viewing said porn. As an example, I like both peanut butter and ketchup, but not together. So it's hardly a stretch for a reviewer to say "hey, I like porn and video games, but I'm not a fan of them together." It's not hypocritical, it's simply thinking two things don't mix well, like water and oil.
It seems you misunderstood the nature of the site
From what I hear its not actually porn site. I believe its official stance is that its a site solely used to allow people to show off tattoos in a similar manner to the said moments of fanservice in the game (Somewhat like a peepshow I have been told)
As for the whole keeping video games and porn separate angel you and a few others seem to be pushing... I find that adorable~ The subject that has been crossed long long ago~ In fact without the union of video games and porn, we wouldn't have JRPGs or even our modern day video game story telling methods
It would take me an age and a half to explain, so I advise you look into it yourself, as its a very interesting subject
 

Tony2077

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i love the series it just is a very small bit annoying the second is on a system i really don't have any interest in
 

Don Incognito

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Ulquiorra4sama said:
Don Incognito said:
Thanatos2k said:
There is a difference between saying "I have personal problems with Bayonetta as a character" and "Everyone should have personal problems with Bayonetta as a character, I'm docking the score to show this to you and to punish the developers, and if you think otherwise I'm deleting your comments."

And this is why game journalism needs to be reformed.
And this is why you need to support your claim with evidence.

Kindly demonstrate where someone said "Everyone should have personal problems with Bayonetta as a character, I'm docking the score to show this to you and to punish the developers, and if you think otherwise I'm deleting your comments."
Well you could just look at the Polygon review for one example

http://www.polygon.com/2014/10/13/6957677/bayonetta-2-review-wii-u

For opinions presented as facts, personal issues on the level of the reviewer detracting from the score, etc. Whether or not Polygon's been deleting disagreeing comments i couldn't say 'cause there's no way to confirm that without talking to people whose comments have been deleted.

OT: Well it's a character action game from Platinum. Of course i'm gonna buy it. Whether it's Raiden jumping around and doing ridiculous poses or Bayonetta the game's gonna be amazing.

EDIT: Jumping around doing ridiculous poses in high heels.
Again: it is a review. Reviews, by their very nature, and subjective editorials. If you don't like one particular subjective editorial, read a different one.

And please demonstrate where the reviewer says "Everyone should have personal problems with Bayonetta as a character, I'm docking the score to show this to you and to punish the developers," even leaving aside the accusation regarding comment deletion.
 

Silentpony_v1legacy

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Rellik San said:
Silentpony said:
Quite right but I do disagree with you. Bayonetta is a sexy character most likely written by a man, but that doesn't cheapen her representation, she is displayed and written as a strong woman, enjoying herself and her life as much possible and using her power to achieve her goals in a way she finds appealing. She is, as much as I hate these terms "Sex Positive" (I don't hate what it means, I just hate that they call it "sex positive" because when done right, sex is always positive).

And whilst yes, her personality and actions are restricted by the writer/player relationship, the way it's presented is key, one could argue that her sexuality is overt and over the top it transcends "sexy" into camp absurdism, Bayonetta is to video games, what the sexually charged and motivated Rocky Horror Picture Show is to movies, the sexiness, sexualisation and erotically charged characters of both, were indeed written by men. But given the lack of Janet Weiss' agency in the story, other than engaging in sexually dramatic moments and later being literally brainwashed with sex and sexuality, wouldn't that be just as troubling a story? Assuming of course you read it that way.

Art is always about interpretation beyond the surface and both views are just as viable. :)

So come at me with your well reasoned opinion bro/sis. Let's discuss this further. :D
I guess I would ask, and forgive me if this details the conversation, but why are the writers Bayonetta given such a pass? I mean Bayonettas sexuality, her sucking and humping of things, theyre almost irrelevant to my larger thought really. It's not WHAT she does, it's why no one looks at the men behind the curtain.
For example, when Mass Effect 3s ending pissed everyone off, the rage was directed at the writers. How could they write this?! No one stepped up and said the Reapers have agency and Shepard made his/her choice so deal with it.
When Lara Croft was almost raped, everyone was disgusted someone wrote that in a game. No one just shrugged and said the bad guy was just confident in his sexuality. He has agency and choose this life.
When the new assassin creed demo had no women, everyone called it terrible and non inclusive. No one said well it was the women's choice to not be assassins. They decided to not be in the demo and we should respect that choice.
Dead or Alive extreme beach volleyball? Absolutely terrible! sexist! Disgusting. No one steps forward and says it's their choice to dress up in skimpy bikinis and bounce around in slowmo. No one respects Helena or Kasumi for their confidence in their bodies. Nope, they're sex doll.
But Bayonetta strips naked and grinds her enemies to death with her crotch? GOSH! what strong female characterization. How respectable. How progressive and confident she is!
No one bats an eye that writers made her this way. No one asks why she strips, it's just part of who she is, forgetting who she is isn't up to her.
I would go so far to say Dead or Alive Volleyball is a progressive game compared to Bayonetta. Yes DoA is trash, but it's not trying to hide it's naughty bits behind artsy filters or smoke monsters DoA isn't trying to pretend it's here for anything but cheese shots and doesn't throw in boss fights as part of a needless delaying tactic between strip shows. It's honest that this is fap material, pure and simple. where as Bayonetta has to pretend it's erotica, i guess so as not to piss off family friendly Nintendo or the moms who bought Wiis for their toddlers.
 

DataSnake

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MarsAtlas said:
Kuro Serpentina said:
While I agree with Jim about the points he was making, the reasons he were making the points seems a bit off
From what I've heard about the Polygon review thing centres around a certain level of hypocrisy from the reviewer, who is known to often visit a smut site where women in various arrays of undress post up for viewer enjoyment, which reach and even surpass the levels of "Fanservice" Bayonetta has become partly known for; which has let many, quite rightly in my opinion, to call foul on the reviewer for condemning it while indulging in an extremely similar thing in his own time.
Have you ever considered that some people find it uncomfortable when people try tp inject sex into a beat-em-up videogame? That maybe some people like to keep their sexual fantasies in one realm and videogames in another? That maybe many people don't play games for masturbation material but for a difference experience? It doesn't necessarily make you a prude because you don't like sex in videogames, and in my experience, most people don't like it because they don't want sexual fantasies in the same realm as gaming. I can only speak for myself, but if I wanted porn, I'd go watch porn. If I wanted a lap dance, I'd go get a lap dance, not experience a lap dance between shooting galleries in Duke Nukem. Its the same reason that when people generally want some excitement in their life and do something, like, say, skydiving, they don't bring sex workers skydiving with them.
Pretty much what I was going to say, but I'll just add a quote from Yahtzee:
People often say to me, "Yahtzee, you callipygian Superman, how can you, a game writer yourself, complain about a game having too much dialogue?" I would reply, "for the same reason that a hairdresser is entitled to complain when someone fills their car with shampoo."
Just because you like something in one context doesn't mean you'll like it in every context. I, for instance, like chocolate. However, if I order a chili cheese dog and the idiot preparing it decides to drench it in chocolate sauce, I won't be very happy.
 

Trishbot

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Tony2077 said:
i love the series it just is a very small bit annoying the second is on a system i really don't have any interest in
I'm going to be very snarky and pick on you for a bit, but only because I like you.

I hear this often, but the truth is you DO want a Wii U. You want a Wii U right now, in fact, because you could then play Bayonetta 2, one of the best games of the year, and a series you claim you love. You would like nothing more than a Wii U to play Bayonetta 2.

You just don't want to PAY for a Wii U because it's an expensive piece of hardware, you may have already spent that money on a PS4 or Xbox One, and you would PREFER to have the game on a system you already own.

But you do have an interest in the system.... for Bayonetta 2. A highly desirable game is on a system you don't own, thus you are interested in the system, just not to the degree of giving them a few hundred dollars for it.

But if the Wii U was totally affordable and the game was in your clutches? You'd be totally interested. GAMES are what make people interested in systems, and the Wii U, for better or worse (mainly for your wallet), is a vastly more interesting system with a stellar game like Bayonetta 2 exclusively on it.

I mean, I don't have a Wii U either. But I'd be lying if I said I'm not more interested in the system now than before Bayonetta 2 swept the floor with all those perfect scores.

Silentpony said:
I guess I would ask, and forgive me if this details the conversation, but why are the writers Bayonetta given such a pass? I mean Bayonettas sexuality, her sucking and humping of things, theyre almost irrelevant to my larger thought really. It's not WHAT she does, it's why no one looks at the men behind the curtain.
People have. And the answer was, well, there were many people behind the curtain... and not just MEN. Bayonetta in this game was designed by a FEMALE fashion designer, along with all her outfits and costumes.

For example, when Mass Effect 3s ending pissed everyone off, the rage was directed at the writers. How could they write this?! No one stepped up and said the Reapers have agency and Shepard made his/her choice so deal with it.
That's because the Reapers were slaves, and they had no agency, thus nobody brought that up because it doesn't exist.

When Lara Croft was almost raped, everyone was disgusted someone wrote that in a game. No one just shrugged and said the bad guy was just confident in his sexuality. He has agency and choose this life.
Well, the game was also written by a FEMALE writer as well. Beyond that, the in-context situation is hardly sexual. If you fail, there's nothing sexual... he just flat out kills the main character. More importantly, he's a no-name thug, a video game obstacle, and thus nobody CARES about his agency or sexuality because he's ultimately NOT IMPORTANT.

When the new assassin creed demo had no women, everyone called it terrible and non inclusive. No one said well it was the women's choice to not be assassins. They decided to not be in the demo and we should respect that choice.
But there ARE female assassins in the series. Hell, there are female assassins during the French Revolution as HISTORICAL FACT. The most famous French assassin was a woman during that time period. Also, the lack of women wasn't so much of an issue as it was the REASON we were told they weren't there: "they were too much work." THAT was what most people were upset with.

Dead or Alive extreme beach volleyball? Absolutely terrible! sexist! Disgusting. No one steps forward and says it's their choice to dress up in skimpy bikinis and bounce around in slowmo. No one respects Helena or Kasumi for their confidence in their bodies. Nope, they're sex doll.
It's not their choice. It's the developer's choice. A developer with a repeatedly poor history of representing women, and continued litigation involving women in the work place. There is a point to Bayonetta's sexuality, and it actually defines their character. I own every Dead or Alive game, and practically NONE of their (mostly interchangeable) outfits contribute to their established personalities. Also, I don't think people can choose to "bounce in slowmo". I've tried it. I can't get it to work...

But Bayonetta strips naked and grinds her enemies to death with her crotch? GOSH! what strong female characterization. How respectable. How progressive and confident she is!
No one bats an eye that writers made her this way. No one asks why she strips, it's just part of who she is, forgetting who she is isn't up to her.
Actually, she weaponizes sex, making it one of her many means of dispensing enemies, thus turning it from something forced upon her to something SHE forces upon OTHERS. And people did ask why she strips; it's even explained in-game how her very outfit is made from her own magic hair, transmuting into alternate forms and beasts and monsters. It's one of the few games that DOES answer why she does it. She is never not in control of her form or sexuality, which is the key difference. She is not the docile recipient most of the time like most other fanservice women.

I would go so far to say Dead or Alive Volleyball is a progressive game compared to Bayonetta. Yes DoA is trash, but it's not trying to hide it's naughty bits behind artsy filters or smoke monsters DoA isn't trying to pretend it's here for anything but cheese shots and doesn't throw in boss fights as part of a needless delaying tactic between strip shows.
It's called Dead or Alive VOLLEYBALL. It totally hid its pervy dress-up simulator behind the veil of "it's a volleyball game, REALLY!" The fact that you had to UNLOCK stripper pole dances as REWARDS meant that they hid the naughtiest bits behind fluff and stuff. It did it's very best to be softcore while not having the guts to actually commit to its one-note gimmick of sexual pandering.

It's honest that this is fap material, pure and simple. where as Bayonetta has to pretend it's erotica, i guess so as not to piss off family friendly Nintendo or the moms who bought Wiis for their toddlers.
Bayonetta 1 was exactly the same way and was NOT on Nintendo systems; it was on the systems that GTA, Duke Nukem Forever, and, yes, Dead or Alive Volleyball were on.

There's a lot of great material out there that can be both smart AND erotic, fun AND sexy, mature AND silly, naughty AND nice... Bayonetta's not even the first to walk that balance.
 

Darth_Payn

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Rellik San said:
Silentpony said:
I agree...but doesn't tie back in to other things you've talked about Jim? About whose fault controversies are?
Bayonetta dresses are her characters choose. Great. Except bullshit. Bayonetta is not a person. She is not real. Someone, most likely a man, WROTE her. They wrote 'Bayonetta kills bosses by ripping her clothes off and sucking on lolipops' ...and that's just cool, because...why? Bayonetta has no agency, not identity beyond that of a sexualized woman. We don't see Bayonetta renting movies and having a relaxing night at home with some popcorn. We don't see Bayonetta filing up her car with gas, or doing her taxes or washing her clothes. We only see her as a sex object, something to be oogled and fapped to because that's all she is. That is how she, as a nonperson, was written.
Quite right but I do disagree with you. Bayonetta is a sexy character most likely written by a man, but that doesn't cheapen her representation, she is displayed and written as a strong woman, enjoying herself and her life as much possible and using her power to achieve her goals in a way she finds appealing. She is, as much as I hate these terms "Sex Positive" (I don't hate what it means, I just hate that they call it "sex positive" because when done right, sex is always positive).

And whilst yes, her personality and actions are restricted by the writer/player relationship, the way it's presented is key, one could argue that her sexuality is overt and over the top it transcends "sexy" into camp absurdism, Bayonetta is to video games, what the sexually charged and motivated Rocky Horror Picture Show is to movies, the sexiness, sexualisation and erotically charged characters of both, were indeed written by men. But given the lack of Janet Weiss' agency in the story, other than engaging in sexually dramatic moments and later being literally brainwashed with sex and sexuality, wouldn't that be just as troubling a story? Assuming of course you read it that way.

Art is always about interpretation beyond the surface and both views are just as viable. :)

So come at me with your well reasoned opinion bro/sis. Let's discuss this further. :D
OK, that "sex is always positive" line got a full belly laugh from me! What you said about sexuality being exaggerated brings to mind what Yahtzee said about that: "Just because its portrayal is "ironic" doesn't mean somebody isn't getting off to it."
 

PunkRex

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Does anyone actually play Team Ninja games for the story? Seriously, I place Dead or Alive in the same category I put all those dating sims and VR partner things, it's porn. I can't agree with the idea that Dead or Alive is some sort of standard in the gaming industry, I don't play Team Ninja games but I've never seen a let's play that didn't go 'It's Dead or Alive... what were you expecting?'. Metroid Other M on the other hand, another game I havn't played, seems like a rational thing to hate on as it poorly represents a, up till then, stoic, bad ass space mercenary.

The rest of the vid I agree with. The Polygon review wasn't even aggressive, the guy just felt uncomfortable, he handled it in a really classy manor.
 

RaikuFA

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Kuro Serpentina said:
While I agree with Jim about the points he was making, the reasons he were making the points seems a bit off
From what I've heard about the Polygon review thing centres around a certain level of hypocrisy from the reviewer, who is known to often visit a smut site where women in various arrays of undress post up for viewer enjoyment, which reach and even surpass the levels of "Fanservice" Bayonetta has become partly known for; which has let many, quite rightly in my opinion, to call foul on the reviewer for condemning it while indulging in an extremely similar thing in his own time.
Makes the whole thing sound a tad disingenuous.
As for the whole discussing of these sorts of things, yeah that would be awesome... however the whole mess that the community at large is currently embroiled in is in no small part due to a lack to out right refusal to discus things
He dosen't just visit the site, he apparently writes articles for it, and with this, I wouldn't be suprised if he got fired from the porn site for this review.
 
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Coreless said:
Appending a "however" doesn't take away from the fact that the person was harassed and doesn't make your non consent disappear in a puff of smoke
You're right. It doesn't.

But appending a "however" after the statement makes it look like everything you're about to say is justification for the death threats. Because that's how language is. Yeah, it's dumb, but that's how language is.

Instead try "I think death threats are awful blah blah condemn them, yadda yadda. *line break* Personally, I disagree with person X because reasons Y, Z, P and Q and I don't think their position is helping the situation. I want to have that discussion.". It divorces your opinion from the idea of the harassment because you do not link them. And if you REALLY want to, you can append another "Again, I think death threats are awful, and deplorable and have no place in the discussion. So let's be reasonable adults and discuss it without them" if you want to even further distance yourself from it, although most reasonable people will not need to see that. And if anyone whines at you about "meh meh meh supporting harassment in your comment meh meh", you can reply with a "where did I justify it? WHERE? I condemned it, and stated my position, which does not justify it at all". And if they whine after that they're just not worth talking to anyway because they don't want a discussion, just a witch burning.

Unless your opinion is literally, "Personally I disagree with person X because they're a *expletive* and should go die in a fire for being an *expletive*" or "Well, X is on the wrong side, what was X expecting?" (which is really dumb and implies no one should have a contrary opinion), then the above should work fine on basically every occasion.

Language is a very weird thing and you can accidentally imply things just by your wording. It sucks, but it's a fact of life.

Captcha: "if you want to be condescending just do it, no need to make up catchas", yes I concur
Swear to MOD, that captcha I posted was legit. XD
 

Ulquiorra4sama

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Don Incognito said:
And please demonstrate where the reviewer says "Everyone should have personal problems with Bayonetta as a character, I'm docking the score to show this to you and to punish the developers," even leaving aside the accusation regarding comment deletion.
That's more or less the entire bottom line in a nutshell

Arthur Gies said:
When Platinum Games is on, it's really, really on, and Bayonetta 2 is in almost any respect that counts a better game than the first, whose mechanics were already exemplary. But every time I'd feel on a roll, enjoying my time with Bayonetta 2 immensely, I'd be broken out of it by another cheap shot of T&A. I would be wrecking a flock of angelic or demonic enemies, sliding in and out of witch time almost at will, and then the special weapon I had picked up became a literal stripper pole for Bayonetta to dance on, because ... well, because, I guess.

I won't guess why the blatant over-sexualization is still there, often more intensely than before. But it causes an otherwise great game to require a much bigger mental compromise to enjoy.
He says that the sexy shots and poses are detrimental to the game's flow and immersion. Not just saying "to me the sexy shots and poses felt uncomfortable and/or unnecessary", but he says that they are. And of course that factored into the score when he later says that it means the game requires a "mental compromise" to properly enjoy.

That's another thing: Not explicitly stated that everyone should have a problem with Bayonetta as a character, but implied through suggesting that there's something wrong with you if you can just readily get into such an oversexualized experience without needing to sit down and go "oh my god there's sex on my tv screen, and the female lead is actually having fun. Let's try not to enjoy this as much as we should despite this being a good game because that'll make us feel better".

EDIT: As for reviews being subjective. Sure. Of course they are. When they are personal reviews. A review for an official online magazine that covers a lot of games and is meant to inform a potential customer before said customer makes their purchase should try to be more professional.

I mean, some of the very subjective reviews published here on the Escapist have gotten more than their fair share of shit thrown at them, and that's because we expect more from a source like that.