Jimquisition: The Beautiful Irony of PC Gaming

Soviet Heavy

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AC10 said:
There are a few false claims in this video, the first being that the source engine is the same engine as it was in 2004.

Valve constantly updates it, they even retroactively added HDR lighting to all of Half Life 2 via patches (which is why it still looks so good). This is like saying that because the Infinity Ward Engine uses the Quake 3 team arena engine called ID Tech 3 (and yes, it does) that it's now a 13 year old engine, despite all the extensions IW made to it. It's a completely fallacious statement and I feel it was wrong of Jim to lie like that.

Additionally, Recettear actually does require a pretty powerful computer because it was optimized like absolute shit.

ALL that being said, I understand the point of this video. PC is driving innovation not through graphics, but through gameplay. I also support trying to get non pc-gamers to try out some of the more unique but easy to run titles.
Infinity Ward also updates their engine for each COD, but it is fundamentally the same engine. There are clues that can tell you immediately if something is running off of the Source Engine for example.
 

Swifteye

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Hm. Well as someone who has tried getting into PC gaming I have some issues with your statements Mr. sterling. For one thing when you say people can play most pc games what kind of games are you referring to? Anyone can play the endless sea of flash games but actual games that you buy welllll. Okay. So I have a new windows 7 computer right? Okay I didn't build it myself it was a gift from my father so it's new and I keep it running well. Okay then lets go and play Spore that game came out a year or so ago and I actually liked it. Won't really run on my windows 7. Okay. Lets play dragon age instead. It works! For a day. After a whole day of playing my computer needs to empty out all the cache and restart just to get rid of the lag the game gives me and this is even with special software just to run video games better.

Ya know that doom game you were talking about? I hate doom and all shooting games especially during that era but ya know what I did play back then? Point and click adventure games like pajama sam and cluefinders. and I can't really play those things on my windows 7 either. Luckily I have an old vista laptop that can play those games but still. New hardware sometimes has some serious roadblocks for old software. That said I can get privateer and some old games to run on my system but it's a shot in the dark to do so.

One of these days i'm going to buy a computer piece by piece and get all the specs checked out and even build it with my own two hands. That computer will get me into PC gaming no problem and pretty much any game new or old would run well and all these problems would go away. But so far that Computer has been estimated to be about 770 dollars. Kind of more expensive than say buying a PS3 getting a littlebig planet combo deal that bundles an extra controller. and then just getting a 50 dollar gift card for psn and going to town. You have some nice points but it still doesn't negate the fact that PCs are a variable system and nothing is quite concrete as it is when you get a console.
 

namewon'tfitin

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Human Revolution was a bad example.
It's graphics are pretty unimpressive for it's time.
I would have chosen Crysis or Metro 2033.
 

Radioactive Kitten

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I built my PC for $700 a few months ago to replace my ancient 6 year old gaming computer, and it's been able to run everything I've thrown at it so far. My most recent purchase (that was graphically intensive by any means) was Deus Ex: Human Revolution, which it was able to run maxed out without breaking a sweat, though I have also been recently spending time playing games that could run on a graphic calculator (The original Deus Ex, Telltale's adventure games, Bastion, etc) as well as revisiting some of my childhood games through emulators.

I find the beauty of PC gaming is that I can enjoy both modern and classic titles all on the same machine with the same control interface I've become so comfortable with, and I get to enjoy some of the quirkier games that have been PC-only or only found success on the PC platform.

Plus, modding. Let us never forget the wonders and joys of modding.
 

Baresark

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I don't know if anyone has pointed this out, but "Recettear: An Items Shop's Tale" is pronounced like Racketeer, which is a person who runs an illegal business. I know what you're saying to yourself, how the fuck do you know, Captain Fuckin' Know-it-all!?!

The easy answer is that I have played that game extensively and they make a joke about the name and what it sounds like in the first 20 minutes of the game. I was saying it that exact same way prior to that.
 

PatrickXD

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Unfortunately for me, I am an avid PC gamer with a PC incapable of running EYE or Amnesia, or some of my favourite games on above minimum settings.
I need a new PC.
 

Hobonicus

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bombadilillo said:
Hobonicus said:
bombadilillo said:
Not exactly maxing out then is it?
I think you missed the point of my post.
I think YOU missed the point of asserting you can max graphics with the described rig, except you can't. So you made a point then disproved it.

Anyway whatever. I want challanging your point

It was just funny to hear. I CAN MAX THIS. EXCEPT THE SETTINGS ARENT ON MAX.
The point was that it's a five year old computer and still does very well, sorry if missing the word "almost" invited derision. It's generally accepted in the PC community (at least among non-elitists) that when talking about maxing out a game you don't take native resolution and anti-aliasing into account.

There are a lot of graphics features that aren't considered necessary for something to be "maxed out", it's not used with the dictionary definition. Otherwise, there would be too many "Maxed out, but-" situations over (often trivial) changes that increase the cost exponentially, such as ubersampling.
 

Wicky_42

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Ok,so Jim's been kinda hit and miss over his tenure here, but all is forgiven for showing up with that chainsword. Where, how much, how soon? :D :D :D
 

ms_sunlight

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Da Orky Man said:
By "old lucas arts games", KotOR? I've discovered that my year-old, 1.6ghz netbook can run it. HELLS YEAH!!!
I bought KotOR off Steam and am replaying it RIGHT NOW. +1!!!

But I'll see your KotOR and raise you Loom. LOOM!!!!!!
 

Lord_Gremlin

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Matthew94 said:
Great video, but I hated eye. It was a buggy piece of shit and infinite respawning really pisses me off when a fucking attack chopper comes at you every minute along with rocket launcher wielding goons.

Now if only console players would listen to this video...

You don't need to upgrade a PC every year and it doesn't cost thousands for a PC. Also the games are cheaper.

The mis-information annoys me.
See, a lot of console gamers are actually playing a lot of good old PC games and use console for latest AAA titles. Like myself. I play Quake, Amnesia, other good PC games on PC, I buy stuff like Bulletstorm or Batman for PS3.
 

Vigormortis

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Swifty714 said:
varulfic said:
Swifty714 said:
Still, console gaming is cheaper.
Except no, because you have to actually buy a console. Pretty much everyone already has a computer. Including you I assume, unless you posted from your phone or something.

Except yes, Console gaming is still cheaper.

People that have been posting, have said the have been paying 200 euro or more, just to get an upgrade. My Xbox 360 lasted me 4 years before I finally needed to 'upgrade' which even then only costed me $140 dollars at the local shop.

Also, not all computers are designed to run games. Mine is just a general purpose laptop.
Um...no, it's not. In the long run console gaming is FAR more expensive than PC gaming. Far more.

For example, to buy a new console within the at least the first year of release is every bit as expensive as buying brand-new hardware for a PC. Years later, the price of the console goes down but so too does the price of equivalent (and often times better) PC hardware. Ergo, your statement of "My Xbox 360 lasted me 4 years before I finally needed to 'upgrade' which even then only costed me $140 dollars" is a moot point. (also, upgrade? I literally laughed at this.) You paid $140 dollars for hardware that's at least 5 years old. I could spend that on upgrading a low-level PC and still end up with hardware far better than the 360.

Add to this the price of paying for things like Live, extra expense in the price of games, expensive proprietary control input devices, storage upgrades, other miscellaneous costs for services within consoles inherent closed systems, and console makers affinity for price hikes and in the end you pay far more over the years to game on something that has less than a third of the capabilities of a PC gaming rig. (and this doesn't include topics like modding, backwards compatibility, etc, etc)

I've often found those that say console gaming is "better" and/or "cheaper" are the same kinds of people that think like some of the die-hard Mac fans. I've met some that are convinced that once they buy a Mac computer, it's the only one they'll ever need. That somehow, Apple will "upgrade" the thing with software patches. And that these "upgrades" will allow them to run any bit of software for the foreseeable future.

Today's "newest" consoles are built on hardware that's well over half a decade old. Paying more than $100 for one (with controllers) is the exact same as someone needless spending $3000 on some top-of-the-line gaming rig. It's stupid either way.
 
Mar 5, 2011
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Volothos said:
Baneat said:
sir.rutthed said:
Error 200 Stream not found. Please fix.
Works just fine.

A: What's that big sword?
B: What's that game that looked like Serious Sam but had a few weapons I haven't seen?
A. Relic, i think they made space marine, gave him a wooden chainsword.
B.I wanna know too.

OT: In this case i think we should thank the god emperor...
Great vid Jim, cant wait till next week!
It is Serious Sam. Well the 3rd HD remake.
 

Da Orky Man

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ms_sunlight said:
Da Orky Man said:
By "old lucas arts games", KotOR? I've discovered that my year-old, 1.6ghz netbook can run it. HELLS YEAH!!!
I bought KotOR off Steam and am replaying it RIGHT NOW. +1!!!

But I'll see your KotOR and raise you Loom. LOOM!!!!!!
Say hi to Bastila for me.

I see your Loom, and raise you The Curse of Monkey Island.
 

infinity_turtles

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Stall said:
Jim uses a lot of logical fallacies and very deceptive arguing, doesn't he? He's INCREDIBLY fond of straw men. I don't think anyone would say graphics are super important on PC exclusives, many of which he cited to construct his argument, but graphics are most certainly important when comparing the PC and console version of a multiplat. I'd like to see Jim do the same video, but using only multiplats to support his argument. Odds say his little thesis would fall flat on its face.

Graphics are one of the biggest reasons to play a multiplat on PC, which is something he totally and absolutely neglected. He used a straw man in the form of graphically unimpressive PC exclusives, aka where no one cares about graphics. He didn't refute the central point, however. Overall.... a pretty poor episode.
I think you're missing the point pretty hard. The point isn't that PC hardware being superior makes it a better/competitive choice for gaming. It's that regardless of hardware, a lot more games come out for it, and that because of that there's going to be a lot more diverse, creative, and interesting ones to be found. PCgaming strength lies not so much in what it can do better, as the things it can do that consoles simply can't. Licensing fees, the inability to offer the game as a downloadable title for consoles, and the huge financial risk they'd have to take in order to get the money to put their game on on enough shelves to cover the cost of doing so means small developers wanting to make a game pretty much have to do so on PC. And even with PSN and XBLA, that limits their audience and good bit and makes it hard to build a reliable fanbase. So if you want to access this huge stockpile of games, you have to go PC. And while a lot of those games suck, or are just average, with that many games there's going to be a lot of gems. Most of the good games for PS3 and 360? They're on PC too. Most of the good games on PC? Most console gamers will never hear of.

Sure, the PCs graphics might be better, but that's a pretty insignificant point when compared to the shitload of games I'd never have been able play if I stuck with a console. That, I believe, is what's meant by the title Irony of PC Gaming. It's like(Warning: Horribly exaggerated metaphor incoming) praising the smoothness of how a machine runs, when the machine in question cures cancer. Sure, you might be right that it runs really smooth, but if you want to tout it's quality, there's something a lot better to point out for that.
 

Jumplion

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bahumat42 said:
Jumplion said:
I was expecting the "irony" of PC gaming would be that whenever someone complains about the graphics/visuals of a certain game being muddy or ugly, people will go off and say "Graphics don't make the game! I could play a game that's nothing but mud so long as it's fun!"

And then, whenever the topic of PC vs. Consoles comes up, the PC crowd almost always goes off saying how pathetic the console's are when it comes to hardware, how they all upscale their games, not true 1080p, how their RAM is so pitiful, how their PC games can run 100+ frames per second, etc....

Generally, that's the biggest irony/hypocrisy I find with PC gaming.
thats not ironic or hypocritical. Its two different facts
fact number one is that they can play things on so-so graphics
fact number two is they like the fact pc can have much better graphics.
And they can both be true statements, i have as much fun with magicka as i have with graphics demanding games with brink (perhaps more). But i do still enjoy shinyness, and who wouldn't.
I can understand wanting a fast PC with good performance, but that is not quite my point. I think it can fall into ironic/hypocritical as many of the people who say that "graphics don't matter" go on to reverse that when talking about PC vs. Consoles, something I have seen many times.

I'm talking about those that just scoff at a PC port that doesn't allow for, I dunno, HDR lighting or something means that the developer are "dumbing down" for consoles, and label the fact that the PC version of the game can support 4xAA rather than the console version with 2xAA as the sole reason why it is superior. At the same time, some of them backtrack and say graphics aren't important, yet cite graphical capabilities as a reason for superiority.

I just find it odd, is all.
 

bombadilillo

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Vigormortis said:
Swifty714 said:
varulfic said:
Swifty714 said:
Still, console gaming is cheaper.
Except no, because you have to actually buy a console. Pretty much everyone already has a computer. Including you I assume, unless you posted from your phone or something.

Except yes, Console gaming is still cheaper.

People that have been posting, have said the have been paying 200 euro or more, just to get an upgrade. My Xbox 360 lasted me 4 years before I finally needed to 'upgrade' which even then only costed me $140 dollars at the local shop.

Also, not all computers are designed to run games. Mine is just a general purpose laptop.
Um...no, it's not. In the long run console gaming is FAR more expensive than PC gaming. Far more.

For example, to buy a new console within the at least the first year of release is every bit as expensive as buying brand-new hardware for a PC. Years later, the price of the console goes down but so too does the price of equivalent (and often times better) PC hardware. Ergo, your statement of "My Xbox 360 lasted me 4 years before I finally needed to 'upgrade' which even then only costed me $140 dollars" is a moot point. (also, upgrade? I literally laughed at this.) You paid $140 dollars for hardware that's at least 5 years old. I could spend that on upgrading a low-level PC and still end up with hardware far better than the 360.

Add to this the price of paying for things like Live, extra expense in the price of games, expensive proprietary control input devices, storage upgrades, other miscellaneous costs for services within consoles inherent closed systems, and console makers affinity for price hikes and in the end you pay far more over the years to game on something that has less than a third of the capabilities of a PC gaming rig. (and this doesn't include topics like modding, backwards compatibility, etc, etc)

I've often found those that say console gaming is "better" and/or "cheaper" are the same kinds of people that think like some of the die-hard Mac fans. I've met some that are convinced that once they buy a Mac computer, it's the only one they'll ever need. That somehow, Apple will "upgrade" the thing with software patches. And that these "upgrades" will allow them to run any bit of software for the foreseeable future.

Today's "newest" consoles are built on hardware that's well over half a decade old. Paying more than $100 for one (with controllers) is the exact same as someone needless spending $3000 on some top-of-the-line gaming rig. It's stupid either way.
You sir are wrong. PS3 plus gamefly = way cheaper then PC gaming. Unless I want to stick with flash games and gog. Then renting throws your whole argument out of the window. Game price goes from 10 more on console to aprox 45 less on console. Unless your the type of person who buys every game console is significantly cheaper in the long run
 

theonecookie

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Well I'm mostly a console gamer but I have to say i find my self spending more and more time with my 6 year old comp playing games like Jim just mentioned so point well made