If my posts are long, perhaps it is because I am putting more effort into thinking about what I am saying? This isn't a race. You can certainly ignore me, but perhaps I am just exploiting your crusade to serve as a teachable point for everyone else who wants to bother reading it? Who knows, I certainly don't for sure.
Treblaine said:
This has not been proven. This is publishers being hysterical and paranoid as usual...snip...
You are failing Hanlon's razor because you have assigned malice to that which can be adequately explained by stupidity. You are failing Occam's razor because the simpler explanation, that greed alone is at fault, is "better" than that they are both greedy and sexist. The burden of proof is on you to show that they are actually sexist and not just greedy.
Saying "they are" isn't sufficient evidence.
What, you think they are running this like a science?!!? No...snip...can do art by the numbers...snip...
Doing "art by the numbers", you mean like with statistics? Which is part of math? Which is a foundational concept to science?
And there is this very nasty and very recent idea...snip...as much profit as possible regardless of logn terms sustainability...snip...
This isn't new. Any thorough study of industry would show that it has always been bumping up against the borders of legality and abuse. Ever heard of child labor? Chemical dumping? Smog?
...snip...And it's not greed, it's stupidity....snip...they think because they are invested they are qualified...snip...
I don't disagree the publishers are stupid, but I have yet to see one major problem that another industry hasn't already gone through, or is not still struggling with. This snowflake syndrome can't pass soon enough.
Or perhaps you aren't aware that the automotive industry has, after almost 50 years, still not figured out how to advertise to women? When the majority of drivers are (as of 2010) women, and women play a role in the majority of car buying decisions?
http://www.slate.com/articles/double_x/doublex/2013/03/car_ads_for_women_does_the_industry_get_it_all_wrong.single.html
...snip...My point was you were working in absolutes...snip...
Numbers are absolutes. Science itself relies on absolutes to work. With absolutes you have a "right" and "wrong". Without absolutes, there is no "right" or "wrong", and what becomes "right" and "wrong" is merely a matter of dates.
...snip...Irrelevant to the discussion. We are talking about how they are excluded is vital...snip...
Then you're straw-manning. If their inclusion is not vital, their exclusion is also irrelevant.
...snip...No, artistic integrity is the goal as to spite how low brow it might sometimes be...snip...
Who is buying art for "artistic integrity"? Art is a form of entertainment. If there is no entertainment, nobody is going to care about the art. How could we change that? It should sound very familiar: education. Teach people how and why to appreciate the art.
Otherwise it's just oppression for the sake of beliefs, and we know how well everyone loves that.
...snip...NO! If they are in it JUST for the money they should have stayed hedge fund managers...snip...
You don't seem to understand how money works. The "better" games got, the more money could be earned by them, and the bigger the pockets of the people who are interested in the industry. Investors jumped onboard to try and "get theirs" out of greed, because they apparently don't care about the medium. If greed is supposed to be the solution, how can greed also be the problem?
Do you understand why the video game crash of 1983 happened? Do you understand the role that consumers played?
No, you are still claiming to know what all gamers think and feel!
It's sad because we have the same goals, but you're so busy trying to wage an imaginary crusade that you can't tell friend from foe. Despite using things like "I" and "I believe", somehow I am talking for everyone else? Is it so hard to believe that there can be more than "two sides" in an issue?
I claimed to speak for myself, something you then confirm one sentence later, so where are you wrong? Do I or don't I speak for myself?
...snip...Don't try to deny you haven't repeatedly perpetuated the myth...snip...
So it was a straw man then. I haven't been editing my posts after I submit them, so if you can't substantiate your claim, the failure is yours.
...snip...You have never established "don't want"...snip...
The thread is about "don't want". The controversy is "why" and "what should be done about it?". You and I agree on the "what we want it to look like", but disagree on the "ok how do we do it".
...snip..."Preference for male player character" equals "actively reject game with female player character"...snip...
Nope, it doesn't. There's a difference between a predisposition and a state of being. It's the difference between "I have alcoholics in my family and am at risk for alcoholism" and "I am currently an alcoholic". The two aren't opposites, and one does not need the other for either to be true.
One can be an alcoholic without a predisposition, and one with an alcoholic predisposition isn't required to be an alcoholic.
...snip... well considering male-shep is the default, the one that is on box art, one in ALL the advertising...snip...
So players are too stupid or lazy to figure out a character creator? People are too stupid or lazy to re-play the game multiple times with different characters? I wonder how you could improve lazy, stupid, people.
...snip...Any and/or all. There is no reason to delay. Just make the damn games!...snip...
A perfectly irrational statement. What did you say about accomodating people's irrationalities?
Your answer to shotgun the industry and force female characters for the sake of female characters. How does one maintain "artistic integrity" if one is forced to select a gender based on parity and not the validity to the story?
...snip...Female player-characters are good for all gamers...snip...
So you have outright stated that you are speaking for all gamers here. Apparently, despite the push back you've received from other users, you do talk for all gamers. Double standard much?
...snip...It's just a MYTH...snip...
It wouldn't be a myth if there were numbers to try and run the art by. If you want to argue that the interpretation of the numbers is wrong, be my guest. Asserting myth contradicts the claim that they tried "running art by numbers". You can't argue interpretation of the numbers being stupid, and then try to deny the numbers are even there.
...snip...To hell with boycotts, there is too much interference in the system for those to work...snip...
If the publishers are so stupid, why aren't the consumers smart enough to get around the "interference in the system"? I am always amazed that "stop spending money on a luxury commodity" is somehow not an answer. The solution to keep supporting game companies in spite of the fact they don't support a specific niche is the very behavior which lead to the bad statistics that companies like EA are using to try and do "art by the numbers". The consumers created this monster, and it's our responsibility to kill it.
...snip...You are pushing for education over an imaginary problem!
If this is an imaginary problem, why do you assert that consumers aren't smart enough to figure out how to not spend their money on a luxury item? Consumers can't be dumb as stumps with no agency and yet also not be the problem when companies make money off of them.
Either consumers are smart or dumb. If we're smart, then we're to blame for allowing ourselves to be exploited because we should have seen this coming. If we're dumb, then we're to blame for not being able to recognize we're being exploited. There is nobody holding a gun to your head forcing you to play video games.
The solution in both instances is to educate the consumer, and act with ones's wallet on that education. Did you think the food industry wanted to put labels on food to identify it as GMO/non-GMO? Do you think that car companies wanted to move away from leaded gas and develop/install restrictive filtering systems in the exhaust? Nope, in both cases ther were consumer based concerns which changed what the company was producing. These changes also occurred because regulation was introduced which required the manufacturers to comply or they couldn't sell their product. Do we really want an external agent acting as "mommy" and regulating what kinds of games are made?
The consumer is the one that holds the power when it comes to luxuries and disposable commodities. The sooner we stop acting like "not playing video games is the end of the world", the sooner we can mature as a medium, and the sooner we can demand quality be what sells, not exploitation.