Jimquisition: The Definition of Art Games

Jimothy Sterling

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Apr 18, 2011
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The Definition of Art Games

There's nothing like a debate about art games to ensure that everybody has a fun, enlightening, and not-at-all-aggravating time! Let's discuss the assertion that "art game" as a descriptor doesn't work, that it's a broken term and people ought to call "art games" something else. Let's fight that assertion in order to continue a petty little argument Jim might have had on a podcast.



That's a debate we're all going to enjoy, right? Well ... we will when The Jimquisition tackles it, because The Jimquisition is like an infection of insight, festering in the wound of your own cluelessness and readying to give you Knowledge Gangrene.



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Theminimanx

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Mar 14, 2011
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Dammit, I'm trying to say something woth some discussion value in order to justify this hopefully first post, but I can't, because I just agree with Jim that much.
Thank god for him.

EDIT: Wait, I've got something!
Even if a certain term works because it's meaning is clear to everyone, does that still mean that we shouldn't try to change the term to have it make more sense? This is not so much the case with the word art games, but there certainly are words that are in dire need of changing, such as metroidvania.
 

malestrithe

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I always thought the definition of art games is limited to games that you would never play otherwise.

But, you explanation works, so I'll coopt it for my work. Thanks.
 

Lawnmooer

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I don't get the people that think the term "Art Game" is broken...

Seriously, I get that all games are art, but the term "Art Game" does in fact refer to the genre of games that specifically go out of their way to look good/tell a story well usually at the expense of gameplay.

The fact that "Art Film" is a widely excepted term yet "Art Game" is questionned is mind boggling...

It's like people keep picking on the gaming industry... Even people who claim to support the gaming industry! :S
 

sideshow

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Ah yes, I remember listening to that episode of Podtoid. the way it was heating up i honestly thought you and Jonathan were going to go mortal kombat.

.................$5 on Jonathan Holmes!!!!!

in terms of art games to quote an earlier Jimquisition: "Who gives a fuck?"
 

beetrain

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Similarly, I remember being confused by the term "Genre Movie/Film" until Moviebob explained it, but now realize it's fit for its purpose.
 

Vkmies

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I love to see how the topics discussed in Podtoid directly influence the things talked about in Jimquisition. XD
 

FleaJr

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I can understand Holmes' point of view in this one; but ultimately as an amateur linguist I just can't get behind the concept of a descriptor being 'pointless' or 'broken'.
I think that when we say 'Art game' we also mean, 'game with intended narrative or thematic complexities which may not be fully understood upon surface inspection at first glance.' And whilst that doesn't fit the shape of any 'genre' of game we have known to date, I don't think we need to class art games as a genre, I'd pose it more as a descriptor, to be combined with other similar words to help paint a picture of what we truly mean.
Sorry Johnathan, but thank god for Jim Sterling.
 

Casual Shinji

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I don't mind the term "art game".

However, the term "games as an artform" makes me break out in hives, especially when uttered by an "indie" developer.
 

beetrain

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Vkmies said:
I love to see how the topics discussed in Podtoid directly influence the things talked about in Jimquisition. XD
Me too. I like to make a game of guessing what the next Jimquisition will be about from the conversations in the latest Podtoid.
I wrongly thought last week would be about Tropes Vs Women, for example.
 

burningdragoon

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Jul 27, 2009
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Well it's nice to see Jim's fetish obsession love affair with Jonathan Holmes bleed into his other work sometimes.
 

Azuaron

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Quote of the year: "'Art game' as a thing, is a thing, that is a thing."

malestrithe said:
I always thought the definition of art games is limited to games that you would never play otherwise.
Actually, calling something an "art game" is typically a strike against it for most gamers (myself included). I played Braid despite it being made by a pretentious twit, and I played Limbo because it came with a Humble Indie Bundle with other games I liked and I decided "Why not?" I enjoyed both because of their respective atmospheres, mechanics, and puzzles.

But you'll never catch me playing something like Dear Esther, which is a glorified indie movie anyway, even if it did happen to end up in my library through a bundle event.

I'm curious about Journey (mainly because of Susan Arendt), but as a PC gamer, I may just miss out on it, for which I'll shed a single tear.

Rabidkitten said:
This is an argument about linguistics, and you should never debate linguistics.
No, no, no. Those are the best debates. :-D
 

Scrustle

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Apr 30, 2011
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I was thinking the same thing all the way through that Podtoid episode. It was strange to hear Holmes be so obtuse and argumentative about something. Whenever he gets in to stuff like that he usually comes up with something that manages to pacify everyone in a respecting yet slightly passive aggressive way.
 

MB202

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I can see their reasoning for why it's a "broken definition", but Jim makes a better point about "art game" being it's own genre, like "art film". It seems like, once again, gamers have no clue what some words actually mean...
 

brazuca

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Any developer reading me, how do you feel about this? Art film was embraced by film producers (makers), but game developers in this media feels like an entity that goes to work and home. They barely discuss their work with their consumer.