Jimquisition: The Survival of Horror

Lightknight

Mugwamp Supreme
Nov 26, 2008
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Excellent video. But seeing as studios have generally failed at budgeting for games it comes as no surprise that they don't understand how to profit from a more niche market. They're still stuck in the rut of spending millions of dollars above an appropriate budget and producing games that just barely break even. So if they made a horror game they'd blow AAA budgets on it and make niche money. So they'll fulfill their own prophecy by being idiots rather than their statement being true.

There is clearly a demand for it. You figure out what kind of demand there is using the same product forecasting businesses use and then you budget according to that. You don't say, "I want to make COD money" and then budget for that on a niche game. Yet these big studios are doing that and wondering why they're failing. What's worse is you have studios like Square Enix who are going so wildly over budget that even games selling multiple millions of copies give them a loss. As long as these producers keep doing this crap, niche genres like horror will be avoided by big companies because they have a fundamental misunderstanding of budgeting and applying their current practices to horror would be catastrophic. Those who can do it right stand to progress here and they'll continue to do it until the big boys figure it out, if they do, and then it'll just be even ground in a party that smaller studios already have viable IPs in because they developed according to what they should make, not what they wanted.

As I've said all along, this is what ever CEO should be forced to read a basic summary on product budgeting:



1. Forecast reasonable revenue expectations based on what real data you have. If data is lacking, be as conservative as possible and put money into getting data before going wildly in.
2. Budget based on that forecast to create a game that meets the criteria of the product that was forecasted for (e.g., don't budget for a horror game based on the IP's former performance and then make it into an action game). Make sure you can make a viable game and have enough revenue left over to make up for project extensions and the profit you want to make on your investment.
3. Stick to the budget. Don't over spend in marketing or anything else beyond what you've already set aside and accounted for. Have safeguards in-place to shine a light on any component of production that is lagging and deal with it aggressively.

How these companies are budgeting:
1. They forecast terribly high numbers that put them into COD ranges for some reason. I still think nepotism must play a strong role in hiring practices for this department.
2. They budget for these terribly high numbers that are not now nor will ever be realistic.
3. They then go over budget, thinking that marketing the game even harder will expand the market beyond what's really there.

This is how those two styles play out:
Correct budgeting:
1. Game is a failure= You lose money. Not the whole bank but you didn't make cost.
2. Game sells a reasonable amount = You make the projected ROI. Breaking even at worst while successfully establishing an IP.
3. Game sells well = you make a good profit.
4. Game is very popular = astronomical return on investment.

Current and incorrect budgeting:
1. Game is a failure = you lose tens or hundreds of millions of dollars potentially.
2. Game sells a reasonable amount = you lost a lot of money.
3. Game sells well = you may break even, you may make a tiny return on investment.
4. Game is very popular = you make a small profit unless you over budgeted even for this (Square Enix, I'm looking at you and your Tomb Raider, Hitman, Sleeping Dogs debacles that each sold millions of copies)

It should all be about the return you get per dollar spent. Horror games are cheaper to make just like horror films are. You should get a better return on investment per dollar than contributing to a game with 100+ million dollar budget. Would you rather make three $25 million horror games that each triple return or 1 $100 million game that makes you $50 million in profit? Right now, these dumb companies are dismissing the smaller numbers for some reason despite the value per dollar being higher. In business school, this is what's called a bad decision.
 

Jimothy Sterling

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Apr 18, 2011
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Entitled said:
It might appear a bit more... professional if Jim would start using other examples for a similar point, instead of always coming back to his own personal obsession of horror games.

There are really a shitload of genres, styles, and themes that the Industry left in the dirt, and that are picking themselves up only in the past years of growing indie publishing. Horror isn't even the most extremely ignored one.
Did you see the way this video ended?

And you still wanna talk professional?
 

Reyold

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Jun 18, 2012
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Jim, that ending... good grief. Well, who needs sleep anyway?

I don't get AAA logic, or rather, a lack thereof. Even if survival horror doesn't make truckloads of money, there's still good money to be potentially made. You'd think AAA companies, who attempt to gouge as much money as they can, would be trying to cash in on it, but NOOOOOO. That's far too logical.
 

thiosk

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Sep 18, 2008
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What game-faced woman wouldn't love that slow, sensual, treatment by ultraseductive Jim?
 

Mr. Q

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As soon as I saw Jim in a dress, I immediately turned off the video and went straight to the comments section. I have enough trouble sleeping at night, I don't need to have Jim haunting my dreams on top of it.

Survival horror is doing much better in the independent field than in the AAA games area. The big publishers are constantly stuck in a bad business mindset that is doing more harm than good. I can't say if its from their lack of learning from past mistakes or they're trying to get as much cash out before the bottom falls out is the cause of all this misery. Although, I would not be surprised if it was the latter.

Honestly, I feel it would be best for the games industry to have the majority of the AAA publishers (the bad ones, mostly) go tits up. I know, it would hurt many people but, with the death of the bloated big boys, smaller publishers can move in, fill the void left behind, and begin offering games that are not trying to stuff so much money and needless gimmicks (I.E. putting more action into a horror title). If the industry is trying to emulate Hollywood, then it should learn how to make a product on a low budget. It's time to stop trying to be James Cameron and be a bit more like Roger Corman.

Also, somebody do a background check on Jim Sterling. I'm willing to bet five bucks that there is a document that has the words "sex offender" in it more than once. ^^;
 

PunkRex

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Feb 19, 2010
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Who's on the blow up doll... oh it's Aliens, okay... gawddammit, it's like watching a stylish hamster ride an abandoned barbie doll.
 

NinjaDeathSlap

Leaf on the wind
Feb 20, 2011
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I am... surprised that this video didn't come with an age gate.

It's quite clear that you need help Jim, but for the sake of all your adoring fans, never get any.
 

Sotanaht

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Mar 6, 2008
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Just wanted to point out that alien isolation having only one alien didn't sound so bad until dropping the other shoe about the clone shooter. Keep in mind that the movie Alien only had one. Being stalked through environments by a single extremely threatening alien that could be sneaking up behind (or above) you at any time is pretty much the pinnacle of what a horror game can accomplish I think.
 

Something Amyss

Aswyng and Amyss
Dec 3, 2008
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I don't care much about horror games, especially not non-combat ones. It's not my cup of tea. I like to feel more active in games, and these games don't so much scare me as they do frustrate me. However, I want more variety out of the industry, and if there's a market I say tap that. It seems there is, so....

Red X said:
Also, does his scarecrow hat remind anyone else of that traveling one from Zelda?
Actually, what it reminds me of is Scarecrow from The Adventures of the Galaxy Rangers:


You only have to skip in like 20 seconds for an example of the voice.

This was one of my favourite cartoons growing up, and I immediately thought of it when Jim did the voice.

And really, where else are you going to see a main character strangled by nightmare fuel in a kids show.

Aardvaarkman said:
October really is the worst month. Why does everything suddenly have to become about "horror" and "scary" things? Because of some bizarre American fascination with this "Halloween" thing that almost nobody else in the world gives a crap about?
Come now. Isn't it refreshing to see Americans scared of something other than a black guy as President and vegetables that aren't deep fried?
 

Itchi_da_killa

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Ishal said:
inb4 people complaining about Amnesia and similar games only forcing you to run away from monsters and using a simple engine.

These games are supposed to take the power away from you, that is the point. That is a staple of horror when its done right.
You nailed it beautifully with that last line. I would like to see a new Fatal Frame installment as well.
 

Chessrook44

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Feb 11, 2009
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I've only got two comments to add to this.

One: The reason game studios said horror is dead is because FOCUS GROUPS. If nobody in the focus group they catered around a certain thing says they want horror, well then, nobody wants horror, obviously.

[youtube]http://youtu.be/nsNrwHA6Big[/youtube]

Two: The fact that companies only want blockbusters and can't settle for only making some money? Sounds like they all subscribe to the phrase "Go big or go home".
 

Eternal_Lament

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Sep 23, 2010
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I'm not sure that games such as Amnesia, Outlast, or Slender are really the right path for horror games, in so much as it seems these games have gone from horrifying to merely being tense. Amnesia, or at least the Dark Descent, has a little lee-way by means of the whole insanity mechanic, but for the most part these style of horror games are horrifying only for a bit before descending into what is simply a tense experience. They aren't really horrifying the way Silent Hill games are still horrifying to this day. Perhaps it has more to do with my tastes, but I feel that in games, horror has the perfect excuse to play up the surreal angle to 11, something I feel games like the three more well known horror games of this generation fail to capture in any meaningful, or at least terrifying way.

Indeed, I feel that if we were to use a better point of comparison for good horror games, I'd probably choose SCP: Containment Breach and Cry of Fear as the big stand-outs of horror for this generation. For SCP, while it plays out very similarly to the three games I mentioned earlier, I feel it does the whole horror element the best, in part because the whole surreal element extends not just to the Objects, but the new gameplay mechanics derived from each Object's surreal nature. Upon later playthroughs sure, some of these horrific elements lose their touch, but that's sort of where the whole randomly generated rooms serves to help. You always start out with SCP-173, but who knows, maybe you happen upon the Plague Doctor far earlier than you normally do, or perhaps SCP-106 decides to make that horrifying surprise visit well before anything of note is meant to happen. For Cry of Fear, I feel it is perhaps one of the best horror games this generation, in part because it blends the resourcefulness of survival horror with limited ammo while also not going to extreme in having nothing at all. It doesn't hurt too that Cry of Fear has some pretty god damn disturbing visuals and sequences that still get to me.
 

Sotanaht

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Mar 6, 2008
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Containment Breach is pretty much what I was thinking about when I made my one alien comment above. I didn't play it far enough to encounter anything but 173 but damn if that thing didn't scare the shit out of me.
 

Yopaz

Sarcastic overlord
Jun 3, 2009
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Jimothy Sterling said:
Entitled said:
It might appear a bit more... professional if Jim would start using other examples for a similar point, instead of always coming back to his own personal obsession of horror games.

There are really a shitload of genres, styles, and themes that the Industry left in the dirt, and that are picking themselves up only in the past years of growing indie publishing. Horror isn't even the most extremely ignored one.
Did you see the way this video ended?

And you still wanna talk professional?
OK, this comment made me laugh more than the video.

OT: I was thinking things through as I watched the video, trying to think of something to say on the subject... then I watched the ending and I forgot everything I was thinking of. All I could think of was that Jim might be afraid of Alien: Colonial Marines, but he's certainly not afraid of making a fool of himself. Don't ever change.

More on the topic at hand though... Amnesia was a huge success because of its low budget and it managed to make quite a lot compared to what it cost. The sad part is that if we were to compare the money it made to the budget of AAA titles it wouldn't even make enough to cover half of the cost and they keep pushing games to cost more.

I've argued this before that survival horror isn't profitable with the attitude that publishers who need to sell 15 billion copies on day 1 in USA in order to call it a success isn't sustainable. It isn't sustainable with the mainstream games either as lots of games still can't make a profit despite great sales.

Among the huge companies I actually look towards Nintendo as a voice of sense since they actually seem to understand that not every game needs a bloated budget to be good. Sadly they're not making survival horror games and I don't think they would have made a good one if they tried.
 

Aardvaarkman

I am the one who eats ants!
Jul 14, 2011
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Zachary Amaranth said:
Come now. Isn't it refreshing to see Americans scared of something other than a black guy as President and vegetables that aren't deep fried?
You've got me there.

However: drone strikes on innocent civilians. International wiretapping on people who pose no threat. Imminent starvation. I don't think being scared of a stupid video game or movie is much of a step up from what most of the world has to deal with.

Oh wait, one more final thing to horrify people: LIBERALS! HEALTH CARE!
 

[REDACTED]

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Apr 30, 2012
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Aardvaarkman said:
Zachary Amaranth said:
Come now. Isn't it refreshing to see Americans scared of something other than a black guy as President and vegetables that aren't deep fried?
You've got me there.

However: drone strikes on innocent civilians. International wiretapping on people who pose no threat. Imminent starvation. I don't think being scared of a stupid video game or movie is much of a step up from what most of the world has to deal with.

Oh wait, one more final thing to horrify people: LIBERALS! HEALTH CARE!
Neither of you are funny. I'm going to leave this thread and return in a couple of hours. If I see the word "Americunt" or any variation thereof when I get back, I will not be pleased.