Jimquisition: The Survival of Horror

OuendanCyrus

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At 5:23, does anyone know what that's from? It looks like a scene from Silent Hill 2 that never made it to the final game, or it's just trailer footage.
 

Silentpony_v1legacy

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Why not mention Amnesia: A machine for pigs? I mean it was horror and it was good. and don't give me that bullshit 'it wasn't scary. there were no monsters'
First play-through was horrifying because you don't know where the monsters are, and it was certainly less predictable than the dark descent. And really horror games are only good for one play-through, because fear in a visceral in-the-moment emotion, not a reoccurring one.
Part of the reason horror is dying is because fans keep turning on the franchise. Oh, its not exactly like the Dark Descent therefore its shit. Its time people admit horror game fans have the exact same problem as any other genre. The fans themselves have unrealistic expectations and rely on reviews too much.
Why is it when a review site, say the escapist, gives a game whatever score and says its not fun, but tons of fans ignore that, saying its only one opinion and they'll play it anyway. But a horror game comes out, one dude says he wasn't scared and it poisons the entire community. everyone parrots that to no end, the game tanks, publishers see that and the sequel is moth-balled. then fans cry foul on no more horror games.
 

loc978

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wulf3n said:
This video contradicts itself.

It talks about how the Movie industry still releases horror movies, they're just not Blockbuster titles with Blockbuster budgets, then goes on to criticize the AAA Game Industry, basically the Blockbuster sector of the games industry, for not making horror games.

They (horror films) don't cost as much as the Hobbit does and consequently don't need to make as much
But by asking the AAA to make more horror you're effectively asking for Hobbit level budgets.

I really don't understand the current belief within the gaming community that the AAA is the only sector that produces anything of worth, and that even though the "Indie" scene is still producing good quality horror titles, people don't care because it's not AAA.

You want AAA budget/quality but that means you need AAA profits.
So publishers and developers capable of AAA budgets are incapable of making games on smaller budgets? The argument he made is that publishers make that true by their idiotic expectations, rather than by sound economics.

...and quality is a very subjective term. As far as I'm concerned, at this point "AAA quality" is practically an oxymoron.

Hell, I'm not even a fan of horror games. I thought Silent Hill was boring (Amnesia, too)... but horror isn't the only genre suffering from this.
 

Muspelheim

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Chimichanga said:
Aardvaarkman said:
Zachary Amaranth said:
Come now. Isn't it refreshing to see Americans scared of something other than a black guy as President and vegetables that aren't deep fried?
You've got me there.

However: drone strikes on innocent civilians. International wiretapping on people who pose no threat. Imminent starvation. I don't think being scared of a stupid video game or movie is much of a step up from what most of the world has to deal with.

Oh wait, one more final thing to horrify people: LIBERALS! HEALTH CARE!
Ha ha ha, yes. We are still scared of black people, Obama just got his job because of affirmative action and white guilt. It was not due to the majority of the American public freely electing him into office. At all. Race relations are still exactly the way they were in 1990. Of course, only Americans can be so ignorant.



Because none of your governments are just as shady, disingenuous, and underhanded; nor will they completely disregard your human rights, privacy and dignity when they think they can get away with it. Europe must be some kind of benevolent utopia right? Thank god none of you live in the Borderlands-styled Hell that is idiot 'Murka. Must be, otherwise you wouldn't feel so insecure that you had to ape every other teenybopper hipster around the globe in bashing the US in a thread discussing the latest installment of a web series that focuses on vidyagarmes.

OT: Thank ye' Jim. I must now go to wash my eyes with bleach.

http://t0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSzk3xYxCgZTSIaN84AmSM-TPbfYzvdoxpLlaGFfclkD9ANLVRg

(To enter into the spirit of things)

OT; I rather like how Jim finds a way to display all the weird toys people on the internet lavish him with. It's always slightly better (or worse) than the previous.
 

fozzy360

I endorse Jurassic Park
Oct 20, 2009
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wulf3n said:
This video contradicts itself.

It talks about how the Movie industry still releases horror movies, they're just not Blockbuster titles with Blockbuster budgets, then goes on to criticize the AAA Game Industry, basically the Blockbuster sector of the games industry, for not making horror games.
I think what Jim is going for is asking why, after the seemingly endless amount of money AAA studios are willing to put into blockbuster games, can't they also throw some money towards a horror game that doesn't necessarily have to be AAA.

A lot of film studios have various sub-brands that they use to release certain types of movies, like Focus from Universal, or, even better example, Dimension Extreme. These brands don't need a heaping dose of money to acquire and distribute the films they pick up because the ones that they do didn't cost much to begin with. The AAA sector seems to have no interest in anything that doesn't at least have the potential to make billions, but that's at the cost of developing smaller franchises with built-in or dedicated audiences who will come back more consistently than they realize.

So, it's not asking AAA studios to give AAA budgets to horror games so much as it as pondering why they would give up an assured avenue of money even if it isn't as high-grossing as the blockbuster games they pump out.

wulf3n said:
I really don't understand the current belief within the gaming community that the AAA is the only sector that produces anything of worth, and that even though the "Indie" scene is still producing good quality horror titles, people don't care because it's not AAA.
I agree with the latter.

With the former, I think people are just starved for something new, and the indie scene is really the best place to find new or inventive experiences or even experiences that simply go back to basics.
 

Sanunes

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Mar 18, 2011
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Silentpony said:
Why not mention Amnesia: A machine for pigs? I mean it was horror and it was good. and don't give me that bullshit 'it wasn't scary. there were no monsters'
First play-through was horrifying because you don't know where the monsters are, and it was certainly less predictable than the dark descent. And really horror games are only good for one play-through, because fear in a visceral in-the-moment emotion, not a reoccurring one.
Part of the reason horror is dying is because fans keep turning on the franchise. Oh, its not exactly like the Dark Descent therefore its shit. Its time people admit horror game fans have the exact same problem as any other genre. The fans themselves have unrealistic expectations and rely on reviews too much.
Why is it when a review site, say the escapist, gives a game whatever score and says its not fun, but tons of fans ignore that, saying its only one opinion and they'll play it anyway. But a horror game comes out, one dude says he wasn't scared and it poisons the entire community. everyone parrots that to no end, the game tanks, publishers see that and the sequel is moth-balled. then fans cry foul on no more horror games.
For me the problem with Amnesia: A Machine for Pigs is that it wasn't scary for me and I have heard that from several of my friends as well. The problem for me are the changes they made to the mechanics of the game, of course others might find what they left in the game to make it scary, but it hurt the scare factor for me.
 

wulf3n

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loc978 said:
wulf3n said:
This video contradicts itself.

It talks about how the Movie industry still releases horror movies, they're just not Blockbuster titles with Blockbuster budgets, then goes on to criticize the AAA Game Industry, basically the Blockbuster sector of the games industry, for not making horror games.

They (horror films) don't cost as much as the Hobbit does and consequently don't need to make as much
But by asking the AAA to make more horror you're effectively asking for Hobbit level budgets.

I really don't understand the current belief within the gaming community that the AAA is the only sector that produces anything of worth, and that even though the "Indie" scene is still producing good quality horror titles, people don't care because it's not AAA.

You want AAA budget/quality but that means you need AAA profits.
So publishers and developers capable of AAA budgets are incapable of making games on smaller budgets? The argument he made is that publishers make that true by their idiotic expectations, rather than by sound economics.

...and quality is a very subjective term. As far as I'm concerned, at this point "AAA quality" is practically an oxymoron.

Hell, I'm not even a fan of horror games. I thought Silent Hill was boring (Amnesia, too)... but horror isn't the only genre suffering from this.
fozzy360 said:
wulf3n said:
This video contradicts itself.

It talks about how the Movie industry still releases horror movies, they're just not Blockbuster titles with Blockbuster budgets, then goes on to criticize the AAA Game Industry, basically the Blockbuster sector of the games industry, for not making horror games.
I think what Jim is going for is asking why, after the seemingly endless amount of money AAA studios are willing to put into blockbuster games, can't they also throw some money towards a horror game that doesn't necessarily have to be AAA.

A lot of film studios have various sub-brands that they use to release certain types of movies, like Focus from Universal, or, even better example, Dimension Extreme. These brands don't need a heaping dose of money to acquire and distribute the films they pick up because the ones that they do didn't cost much to begin with. The AAA sector seems to have no interest in anything that doesn't at least have the potential to make billions, but that's at the cost of developing smaller franchises with built-in or dedicated audiences who will come back more consistently than they realize.

So, it's not asking AAA studios to give AAA budgets to horror games so much as it as pondering why they would give up an assured avenue of money even if it isn't as high-grossing as the blockbuster games they pump out.

wulf3n said:
I really don't understand the current belief within the gaming community that the AAA is the only sector that produces anything of worth, and that even though the "Indie" scene is still producing good quality horror titles, people don't care because it's not AAA.
I agree with the latter.

With the former, I think people are just starved for something new, and the indie scene is really the best place to find new or inventive experiences or even experiences that simply go back to basics.
Ok, I may not have made my position as clear as I could have.

AAA = Big budget. Just as Blockbuster = Big Budget (usually)

So by it's (my) definition asking for something from the AAA is asking for something with a Big Budget.

Sure these publishers could fund smaller projects, but then It wouldn't really be AAA, and were already getting non-AAA horror games.
 

Sight Unseen

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Nov 18, 2009
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mdqp said:
How am I ever going to sleep again, after seeing what I have seen? Damn you Dr. Jonathan Crane!

Anyway, I certainly wouldn't mind more survival horror games, although I feel lately we are missing a "middle of the road" experience, right now either indie developers make no combat horror games, or AAA studios make action packed horror games, but nobody seems to make games where fighting is difficult and discouraged, but possible, with at least a little bullet management.
I'll refer you to a game I found recently that's currently on early access for Steam. It's called "Sir, You Are Being Hunted." It's not really a horror game persay but it is a really tense survival game where combat is possible but discouraged. The game is like the novel "the Most Dangerous Game" in a way, except the hunters are robots in another dimension that you accidentally fall into during a scientific experiment, and there's a fucking lot of them. The game is VERY british, and can be an extremely tense open world stealth/survival game with very limited resources and very slowly regenerating health (only regenerates when you aren't hungry).

It might be close to what you're looking for, but it's still a pretty early alpha and is not finished yet.

OT: I agree with Jim...er, Mr. Scarecrow that horror games are not dead, and that AAA devs should take notice and start making A or AA games instead of only huge budget AAA ones, and bring back a wider array of genres that have largely died, including horror, isometric RPGs, Adventure games and the like.
 

LisaB1138

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My biggest problem is that even those developers who are making horror games only make games from in first-person perspective. I can't play FP due to motion sickness. I wish developers would realize they are again reducing their customer base by only offering a first person perspective.
 

UNHchabo

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wulf3n said:
This video contradicts itself.

It talks about how the Movie industry still releases horror movies, they're just not Blockbuster titles with Blockbuster budgets, then goes on to criticize the AAA Game Industry, basically the Blockbuster sector of the games industry, for not making horror games.

They (horror films) don't cost as much as the Hobbit does and consequently don't need to make as much
But by asking the AAA to make more horror you're effectively asking for Hobbit level budgets.

I really don't understand the current belief within the gaming community that the AAA is the only sector that produces anything of worth, and that even though the "Indie" scene is still producing good quality horror titles, people don't care because it's not AAA.

You want AAA budget/quality but that means you need AAA profits.
He was saying that the AAA publishers won't even touch a horror game anymore. Those big-name horror movies are still usually made by major studios or their subsidiaries -- the latest Jason movie was Paramount and New Line, Saw is distributed by Lionsgate (which while "independent" is still a big company), and The Conjuring was New Line.

Most of the movies in this caliber have budgets in the low 8 figures; one tenth the budgets of the really big blockbusters like The Hobbit, The Matrix, Avatar, or Transformers. Similarly, Jim has talked in the past about how Dark Souls is a "medium budget" game that had reasonable sales expectations from its publisher, so they made tons of money from a lower sales count than Resident Evil 6.
 

Seracen

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The Rogue Wolf said:
God dammit, Jim, I was eating!
Kittyhawk said:
I guess Jim caught the recent Conan video of him playing Outcast, Amnesia and Slender. No?
This was a thing? As in Conan O'Brien? Where did this take place?
I'm not really a fan of Conan doing it, as he seems to be coming from a place of derision on most games (at least, the ones I've seen). I can't help but feel he is just copying Jimmy Falon (who seems to really care about the subject).

Not that I don't like Conan, but he should stick to things he likes. Also, I REALLY liked KSI's "let's play" of Outlast...it made me want to get the game.
 

wulf3n

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UNHchabo said:
wulf3n said:
This video contradicts itself.

It talks about how the Movie industry still releases horror movies, they're just not Blockbuster titles with Blockbuster budgets, then goes on to criticize the AAA Game Industry, basically the Blockbuster sector of the games industry, for not making horror games.

They (horror films) don't cost as much as the Hobbit does and consequently don't need to make as much
But by asking the AAA to make more horror you're effectively asking for Hobbit level budgets.

I really don't understand the current belief within the gaming community that the AAA is the only sector that produces anything of worth, and that even though the "Indie" scene is still producing good quality horror titles, people don't care because it's not AAA.

You want AAA budget/quality but that means you need AAA profits.
He was saying that the AAA publishers won't even touch a horror game anymore. Those big-name horror movies are still usually made by major studios or their subsidiaries -- the latest Jason movie was Paramount and New Line, Saw is distributed by Lionsgate (which while "independent" is still a big company), and The Conjuring was New Line.

Most of the movies in this caliber have budgets in the low 8 figures; one tenth the budgets of the really big blockbusters like The Hobbit, The Matrix, Avatar, or Transformers. Similarly, Jim has talked in the past about how Dark Souls is a "medium budget" game that had reasonable sales expectations from its publisher, so they made tons of money from a lower sales count than Resident Evil 6.
But that's the thing AAA = Blockbuster. Any publisher described as AAA (self or otherwise) is likely only going to deal with AAA budgets and returns.

Expecting AAA publishers to start making low budget games because other publishers have done it somewhat succesfully is somewhat naive. I mean we don't expect the Michael Bay blockbuster to disappear because Paranormal Activity made a lot of money, with a minuscule budget.

The AAA industry is there to give us the Big Budget games. We already have the Indie Scene and Smaller Publishers like Namco Bandai giving us good horror games like Dark Souls and Amnesia.
 

mdqp

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UNHchabo said:
I think Receiver [http://www.wolfire.com/receiver] fits this definition -- if you're not careful you run out of ammo very quickly, the music and audio tapes give a creepy atmosphere, and it's possible to do a "pacifist run", but very difficult.
Sight Unseen said:
I'll refer you to a game I found recently that's currently on early access for Steam. It's called "Sir, You Are Being Hunted." It's not really a horror game persay but it is a really tense survival game where combat is possible but discouraged. The game is like the novel "the Most Dangerous Game" in a way, except the hunters are robots in another dimension that you accidentally fall into during a scientific experiment, and there's a fucking lot of them. The game is VERY british, and can be an extremely tense open world stealth/survival game with very limited resources and very slowly regenerating health (only regenerates when you aren't hungry).

It might be close to what you're looking for, but it's still a pretty early alpha and is not finished yet.
I know both games, but I don't think they can be really considered "horror games" (as Sight Unseen mentioned about Sir You Are Being Hunted). I mean, Silent Hill or Resident Evil were tense and disturbing experiences, it wasn't just about the fear, and I believe the two games you guys mention (while being both original and interesting) don't exactly fit the bill, at least for me.

Thanks for the suggestions, though. :)
 

Saidan

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Yes, we need less guns and more horror in our games!

*checks the video's ending*

NOT THAT LEVEL OF HORROR!!
 

Silentpony_v1legacy

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Sanunes said:
Silentpony said:
For me the problem with Amnesia: A Machine for Pigs is that it wasn't scary for me and I have heard that from several of my friends as well. The problem for me are the changes they made to the mechanics of the game, of course others might find what they left in the game to make it scary, but it hurt the scare factor for me.
Fair point. I personally really liked the changes and thought the atmosphere was ten time scarier, in part because there were few pigs. And I wasn't much a fan of the sanity meter in the last one, though it was well implemented. What I thought was the scariest was the unpredictable nature of the pigs. I remember one killed at on some bridge in the sewers, but when I re-spawned, he wasn't on the bridge. It was one of those ghostly-appears-anywhere pigs, which killed me a lot looking back.

But to my larger point, you bought the game. You supported the idea of a sequel, even if you didn't enjoy it. Do you think you'd get an Amnesia III if there is one?
 

kasalaba

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Good lord that video was... Well in the spirit of the week. My spirit on the other hand... Still nice job. keep milking the cow of ideas for videos, or humping, whatever. Have a nice day, with sunlight, birds, people, air... *walks away mumbling*
 

Rebel_Raven

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OH HELL! SOMETHING THAT SCARES JIM GOD STERLING!!! *Makes a mess, and loud crashes fleeing for the sake of sanity, and not wanting to see forever and/or eternity.*

To be serious, though, Yeah, we need horror games as Jim states. I prolly won't play some of the extremes, like amnesia, and slender since I have a strong sense of paraoia as it is, but a game that's possibly along the lines of Hardcore mode in New Vegas? Sure.

I think the reason we aren't really seeing it is indeed partly the search for CoDollars, which is dumb as hell, but I'm also thinking we don't have enough good writers to make a game like that. If we do have them, then they're being held back. Either way, it ain't good.
 

RobfromtheGulag

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When the tune started I thought it was Why by Annie Lennox, which would have perfectly mirrored my thoughts. Nonetheless, good stuff. Was surprised to see Bethesda supporting another outlandish title like Evil Within, but excited all the same.

Typically I see the previews for these games, get excited, buy them, then never get past the first 20 minutes for fear. This hasn't stopped me thus far from purchasing the next one that comes along.