Jimquisition: Used Games Have A Right To Exist

Ometochtli

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Why do we demonize used game sales so much. Sure the developers only get money when the game is sold new. and don't get any of the proceeds when that games is sold used. But the same can be said for every manufactured object, when i buy a used car, the automobile manufacturers are not getting any money from that sale. How would you react if Toyota "buying used cars is worse then stealing cars. The same could be said of buying a used washing machine, the manufacturors are not getting any money from the used sale of that machine. So along the same lines as buying a used video game is worse the stealing a video game. Could argue that Buying a used washing machine is worse then stealing a washing machine.
Is buying a used car as bad as or worse then stealing a car? No.
Is buy a used book as bad or worse then stealing a book? No.
Is buying a used Television as bad or worse then stealing a television? No.
Is buy a used game worse then pirating a game? No.
 

lowkey_jotunn

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Just a few quick points. If you bought a shit game, that's at least partly on you. Did you throw a dart and pay full price for a game you'd never heard of? Why didn't you do a little research. 5-10 minutes can avoid this whole mess.

And if you did buy a game, and it sucks, do you think GameStop doesn't know it's a "load of chimpanzee spunk?" Of course they know, and so your only getting a dollar or two for that trade in.


On the whole though, I agree with the basic premise that used games can exist. They're fine and dandy for the most part. My biggest problem is GameStop. That bunch of shysters are involved in so many other criminal ventures, that it's really hard to feel sorry for them when the big studios stick it to them.

Really, neither side is fully in the right here. Game studios are money grubbing capitalist pigs who wont be happy unless they're wiping their ass with $100 bills. And used game retailers are shady businesses that seem to be trying to piss off their main source of revenue, the big studios. Given these options, if I have t pick a side, I'll go with the ones who actually make the games for me.

If GameStop ceased to be, if the whole used game business went belly-up tomorrow... I could still play video games. Sure, I might be paying a bit more $$, which sucks, but the games would still be there. If the other side went away, well ...
 

Epona

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Just a few quick points. If you bought a shit game, that's at least partly on you. Did you throw a dart and pay full price for a game you'd never heard of? Why didn't you do a little research. 5-10 minutes can avoid this whole mess.
Until you play a game, there is no way you can know for sure if it sucks. Especially for AAA titles where the reviewers are likely being paid off. Demos are the only way to know for sure and even then, the used industry exists when you no longer want the game anymore. The used industry is legal and it is pro-consumer. The publishers have used piracy to ensure that once you open a game, you are stuck with it and the cure is the used game industry.

And if you did buy a game, and it sucks, do you think GameStop doesn't know it's a "load of chimpanzee spunk?" Of course they know, and so your only getting a dollar or two for that trade in.
I don't know since I don't trade in my games but if you buy a AAA title for $60 at launch and sell it 2 days later (because it sucks or because you already beat it) you will get 1/3 to 1/2 of your money back won't you?

So there you go, you're partly to blame for buying a crappy game so you get the other part of your money back but that isn't because the publishers are fair, it's because the used market exists.

On the whole though, I agree with the basic premise that used games can exist. They're fine and dandy for the most part. My biggest problem is GameStop. That bunch of shysters are involved in so many other criminal ventures, that it's really hard to feel sorry for them when the big studios stick it to them.
Criminal ventures? Slander?

Really, neither side is fully in the right here. Game studios are money grubbing capitalist pigs who wont be happy unless they're wiping their ass with $100 bills. And used game retailers are shady businesses that seem to be trying to piss off their main source of revenue, the big studios. Given these options, if I have t pick a side, I'll go with the ones who actually make the games for me.
Selling used products is not a "shady" business practice. It's perfectly legal and to be honest, you can't get scammed at Gamestop because you can bring the game back for a full refund in 7 days for any reason and if the game is defective you can bring it back within 30 days. That's alot more consumer friendly than what the publishers offer. Gamestop doesn't offer those return policies on new games for the same reason Wal Mart doesn't, the publishers won't allow it.

If GameStop ceased to be, if the whole used game business went belly-up tomorrow... I could still play video games. Sure, I might be paying a bit more $$, which sucks, but the games would still be there. If the other side went away, well ...
The publishers aren't going away unless there is a total market crash so there is no ultimatum here.
 

Emz

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Jun 13, 2010
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Used games can be the only way of getting your hands on a game sometimes. An example is when I got Skies of Arcadia Legends (the GCN port), which I could only find on Ebay at the time.
 

Jimothy Sterling

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Crono1973 said:
phreakdb said:
Crono1973 said:
1) Irrelevant, Super Mario Galaxy was only an example.

2) True that, I buy new too when the packaging is important to me but it isn't always important to me.

3) This is really a concern for you? As long as you don't steal and you aren't buying it from a thief then that should be good enough for you.

4) You can return an unplayable game to Gamestop too. Even better, you can return a game to Gamestop for any reason in the first 7 days (I think it's 7 days) and get a full refund in the form of a store credit. Try that at Wal Mart. Take back Super Mario Galaxy II, tell them you don't like it and want Black Ops instead.

5) Fair enough but you could also do that by buying the DLC or the sequel on Day one. Happens all the time.

6) Fair enough but this goes back to 5.

Yeah I like PC games more too because of the faster loading times, better graphics and of course, the keyboard and mouse. You can't buy PC games used anymore and that is because those "fatcat" publishers have used DRM to fight the used market and won. They will do the same to the console market if people let them. I would encourage people not to let them.
I just realized something. It struck me like a bolt of lightning.

I was cruising through wal mart the other night, and I noticed that some of the games i saw in the 360/ps3 case for 50-60 bucks, were 30-40 for pc. For the same game. With better graphics and everything.

Maybe, the fact that DRM killed the used PC Games sector, allowed them to make the money they wanted. Now, I'm not saying that the price stuck for every game at that, but as the general rule, that's what it was.

Maybe, the lack of a used game market, as well as the lack of having to give everyone a cut off of the game's sale (console company, gamestop shelving fee, etc.) caused this phenomenon to occur?

I dunno. I think there is something there though.
- Maybe because there are no license fees to pay on PC like there is with the big three.

- Maybe because they sell more copies on consoles which keeps the prices higher (supply and demand).

- Maybe because the DRM has made consumers weary of buying physical copies and many would just prefer to get it on Steam without the securom.

BTW, in my local Wal Mart they have only WoW, Sims 3 and the million expansions and spins offs, Portal 2 and all the cheap jewel case $10 games and it's been that way for weeks. The PC section is neglected while the console games are well stocked and protected behind glass. Seems to me that Wal Mart certainly places more value on console games, probably because they sell better and I'll bet the used market has alot to do with it. After all, if you don't like it you can recover some of your money, especially in the first few weeks after release.
Fun way to get around walmart return policy if you dislike a game or other media: Tell them its damaged and you want a new copy. This new copy will be unopened, come back a few days later and return. Tada!
 

Pandabearparade

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Mar 23, 2011
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lowkey_jotunn said:
If GameStop ceased to be, if the whole used game business went belly-up tomorrow... I could still play video games. Sure, I might be paying a bit more $$, which sucks, but the games would still be there. If the other side went away, well ...
If 'the other side' went belly up? Well, if you mean -every- publisher and developer.. yeah, that would suck. The industry would still recover, because there is still a significant demand for games, but it would suck. I don't see the relevance, though. Even if Activision and EA both kick the bucket, they really aren't the only driving forces in the industry.
 

RDubayoo

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Sep 11, 2008
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I don't see why publishers are so scared of used games. Do they hurt the sales of new games? Only if there's a lot of people willing to pay only five dollars less for a used copy, which will be scarce in the first place. Or do they think people will continue to buy the game new even after it's been out for over a year and retailers have long since taken new copies off of the shelves? Not freaking likely!
 

Uriel_51

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Dec 6, 2010
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Totally agree. A car bought is owned by the person who spent money on it. After the initial purchase, that person can do whatever the hell they want with it. It can exchange hands as many times as possible, the manufacturer of that vehicle doesn't deserve any of that money, why are games different?
 

thepyrethatburns

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Sep 22, 2010
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This is the first Jimquisition that I've seen and I'm impressed. I'm glad that someone hasn't bought into the whole "used=theft" crap.
 

musim

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Nov 22, 2009
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Where to start on this? There are a lot of points made that ignore specifics aspects of the industry. While I would never want any individual rights infringed upon, I would also encourage people to support the developers they like by purchasing their wares new.

Simple math shows what developers need to make on their game sales. I did a big thing of it here: http://johnmusim.wordpress.com/2011/09/13/welcome-to-my-first-rant/
But real quick recap, lets says a developer consists of 100 people, each making $60k a year. Average game development cycle is 2 years so that means this fictional game just cost 12 million dollars. Now lets say the developer gets $40 out of every new game. That means the developer needs to sell 300k copies of the game to break even. And this estimate does not include publisher costs like printing the game and instruction manual and advertising.

A used game store like Gamestop only carries new games so they can circulate used ones. The profit margins are pretty high since most people are willing to pay $50 for a used game that's relatively new. Gamestop's model pretty much guarantees that only the first month sales of a game matter which is exactly why DLC, subscriptions, and online passes exist. While I'm not fond of these things, I do understand their necessity.

The thing that irks me is that if used game sales were less of thing then the price of games wouldn't necessitate such a price since the game could enjoy a longer retail life span at a new price. But that's a should be, not unlike this video of the Jimquisition.