Well... damn Jim! Right after making a giant comment totally ripping on you... you completely change my opinion about you in every way with these two most recent videos. Not a perfect show, but wow, I'm REALLY liking this!
Jimquisition: Used Games Have A Right To Exist
- Thread starter Jimothy Sterling
- Start date
It seems to me, Jim, that the real problem isn't the used games market has a right to exist, but rather that new games are just so bloody expensive. I don't know why they all cost this much, but it strikes me that with on-disk DLC, they have plenty of reason to lower the price to the lowest they can get away with and have people buy that on-disk DLC for the rest of said game. (think EC did something similar in one of their videos)
Say for instance that the on-disk DLC is composed of map packs, side quests and extra weaponry for single-player such that it add up to... let's say $30. On an ordinary game this would mean that the game would cost a total of $90 on launch day if someone DLs all that stuff. But suppose the game costs 20 or 30 bucks at the store? That would mean that, if you wanted the 60 bucks worth, you could GET the 60 bucks worth, and someone who can't afford all the first day DLC can still play the core game.
Also: 'it's better than piracy' isn't really an empirical argument that used games sales don't hurt the industry. Especially since the industries with 'used' markets that people keep bringing up either cost thousands (cars) or have very little pay for the makers (authors) Just sayin'.
Say for instance that the on-disk DLC is composed of map packs, side quests and extra weaponry for single-player such that it add up to... let's say $30. On an ordinary game this would mean that the game would cost a total of $90 on launch day if someone DLs all that stuff. But suppose the game costs 20 or 30 bucks at the store? That would mean that, if you wanted the 60 bucks worth, you could GET the 60 bucks worth, and someone who can't afford all the first day DLC can still play the core game.
Also: 'it's better than piracy' isn't really an empirical argument that used games sales don't hurt the industry. Especially since the industries with 'used' markets that people keep bringing up either cost thousands (cars) or have very little pay for the makers (authors) Just sayin'.
Let's play the devil's advocate one more time. The same capitalist system that publishers use to make their fortunes and used games sales use to give opportunity and lessen investment is also the system publishers are using to protect their capitol earning chances. It all follows. What publishers do to make money is legal, what used games sales do is legal and what publishers do to stop or reduce those used games sales is legal as well.
The only place to look for the culpable is yourselves. If you want to stop publishers from fleecing you STOP PAYING IN TO THEIR ATTEMPTS!!!! Stop buying slight upgrades to team rosters for 60$. Stop buying DLC. Stop buying extra space suits and weapons. And, if you really want to take control back, stop buying games altogether that rob you by cutting content just to sell it back to you as DLC.
ALL THE POWER is in the hands of the player; the person with the wallet. Their are so many great games by great people that you don't have to buy Ubisoft and EA.
Stop complaining and vote with your wallet. That is the way true democracy and capitalism works.
The only place to look for the culpable is yourselves. If you want to stop publishers from fleecing you STOP PAYING IN TO THEIR ATTEMPTS!!!! Stop buying slight upgrades to team rosters for 60$. Stop buying DLC. Stop buying extra space suits and weapons. And, if you really want to take control back, stop buying games altogether that rob you by cutting content just to sell it back to you as DLC.
ALL THE POWER is in the hands of the player; the person with the wallet. Their are so many great games by great people that you don't have to buy Ubisoft and EA.
Stop complaining and vote with your wallet. That is the way true democracy and capitalism works.
I have no trouble with used sell but I would like to see a %10 levy on it so the same levy can be placed on digital downloads.
Then you focus copyright not on distribution but on distribution based on monetary gain exempting search sites as long as they limit search of key words like file sharing, torrent, torrents IE it will block sites marked for file sharing.
Then you focus copyright not on distribution but on distribution based on monetary gain exempting search sites as long as they limit search of key words like file sharing, torrent, torrents IE it will block sites marked for file sharing.
My only real problem with used games is that GameStop is now running the entire commercial used games market, and their practices are influencing every other business to keep pace with them rather than compete simply because nobody can compete with them.
I'm thinking back on the time I tried to trade in about 15 games to a pawn shop and they offered me $40 for the lot because they checked GameStop's trade-in prices and that's what GameStop would have given me, in cash, for those games. (store credit would have been a little more but I wasn't selling those games for more games, I was selling for cash)
That's not even getting into what GameStop does in it's own stores, so really the only reasonable used game market is a peer-to-peer one, which is easier thanks to eBay but still lacking when it comes to paying for something and having it the same day. (or avoiding scams)
I'm thinking back on the time I tried to trade in about 15 games to a pawn shop and they offered me $40 for the lot because they checked GameStop's trade-in prices and that's what GameStop would have given me, in cash, for those games. (store credit would have been a little more but I wasn't selling those games for more games, I was selling for cash)
That's not even getting into what GameStop does in it's own stores, so really the only reasonable used game market is a peer-to-peer one, which is easier thanks to eBay but still lacking when it comes to paying for something and having it the same day. (or avoiding scams)
Translation:SatansBestBuddy said:
"I am upset that Gamestop has been so successful that other shops use Gamestops pricing schemes to determine how much they will give for and sell a game for".
Maybe you should be mad at the other shops, not Gamestop.
I have plenty of other reasons to be mad at GameStop, but yeah, other pawn shops are totally at fault for using GameStop to determine trade in value and that makes me mad.Crono1973 said:
On the one hand, EA =/= > evil then Gamestop just because they do the same thing. It in fact means EA = gamestop in evilness. The argument that bitching about one evil company is wrong just because another evil company is just as evil is ridiculous.
On the other hand, yeah, fuck EA.
Mostly though I kinda just have to laugh. I hate online multiplayer, I never use it unless it's a unique experience like AC: B or Red Dead, and even then only for a few days at most. So I laugh at your little multiplayer lovers who end up getting jibbed by stuff like 10 buck DLC for used when it's a bunk experience in the first place. Tee hee hee.
You wanna show devs that ten buck pass or whatever it's called is BS? Play an online game that doesnt make you pay for it used, like Halo or something. Tell them what you want with your wallets, cuz showing them they are right by shilling out the money while grumbling under your breath isn't gonna change anything.
On the other hand, yeah, fuck EA.
Mostly though I kinda just have to laugh. I hate online multiplayer, I never use it unless it's a unique experience like AC: B or Red Dead, and even then only for a few days at most. So I laugh at your little multiplayer lovers who end up getting jibbed by stuff like 10 buck DLC for used when it's a bunk experience in the first place. Tee hee hee.
You wanna show devs that ten buck pass or whatever it's called is BS? Play an online game that doesnt make you pay for it used, like Halo or something. Tell them what you want with your wallets, cuz showing them they are right by shilling out the money while grumbling under your breath isn't gonna change anything.
i can't believe publishers are pulling this crap. its bad enough that computer games are single shot sink holes, but now they want to destroy used console games?
this whole "make it impossible to share" focus will do more harm than good.
who hasn't rented or borrowed a game from a friend to see how it is?
making it accessible is the first part of selling it off. without the ability to test it out, people will be forced to look at game-play videos or rely on word of mouth to get a game. and if they don't like it? well it will certainly be on their mind the next time they want to buy one. without the knowledge that they can make up something for a bad choice, people will be much more wary of titles, a thing DLC and downloads does not cure.
I'm not sure what percentage they receive from used games (I'm thinking more from chains like gamestop, same or less from amazon etc, and less/little/none from direct trade/craigslist/maybe ebay)
but its gotta be better than no one buying the game at all because say, it got an iffy review and no one wants to sink money in an unsure thing.
maybe if they want to limit used proliferation,they could try another tactic.
1: they can just act like the small niche/rare games that make limited copies and have a huge profit hike when the person can't find a used copy under 40 bucks. keep stock and produce new ones as needed and sell them straight from publisher to limit used profit.
2: collect used games and sell them themselves. its not exactly nice, but if used isn't as profitable to them they could receive the majority of the profit straight up.
both of these keep the used market open while attempting to fix whatever beef they have. they could even add incentives like lower new prices, greater bonus when the game is sold back to them, cleaning up disks or adding bug fixes, artwork, etc...
this whole "make it impossible to share" focus will do more harm than good.
who hasn't rented or borrowed a game from a friend to see how it is?
making it accessible is the first part of selling it off. without the ability to test it out, people will be forced to look at game-play videos or rely on word of mouth to get a game. and if they don't like it? well it will certainly be on their mind the next time they want to buy one. without the knowledge that they can make up something for a bad choice, people will be much more wary of titles, a thing DLC and downloads does not cure.
I'm not sure what percentage they receive from used games (I'm thinking more from chains like gamestop, same or less from amazon etc, and less/little/none from direct trade/craigslist/maybe ebay)
but its gotta be better than no one buying the game at all because say, it got an iffy review and no one wants to sink money in an unsure thing.
maybe if they want to limit used proliferation,they could try another tactic.
1: they can just act like the small niche/rare games that make limited copies and have a huge profit hike when the person can't find a used copy under 40 bucks. keep stock and produce new ones as needed and sell them straight from publisher to limit used profit.
2: collect used games and sell them themselves. its not exactly nice, but if used isn't as profitable to them they could receive the majority of the profit straight up.
both of these keep the used market open while attempting to fix whatever beef they have. they could even add incentives like lower new prices, greater bonus when the game is sold back to them, cleaning up disks or adding bug fixes, artwork, etc...
I think from now on, I might just stick to buying used game for big titles.
Honestly, I'd rather fund a game store over the Evil Empires.
Honestly, I'd rather fund a game store over the Evil Empires.
will this day 1 DLC bitching ever stop?
from when a game is done till you see it on the shelves or on your online shop takes about 1-3 months for sertification(depending on game length, complexity, is the game going to all current gen consoles and pc? or just 1 or 2? etc) on the other hand, DLCs takes arround 1-3 weeks of sertification... And during the 1-3 months of sertification do you honestly think the dev team sits twindeling their tumbs?
from when a game is done till you see it on the shelves or on your online shop takes about 1-3 months for sertification(depending on game length, complexity, is the game going to all current gen consoles and pc? or just 1 or 2? etc) on the other hand, DLCs takes arround 1-3 weeks of sertification... And during the 1-3 months of sertification do you honestly think the dev team sits twindeling their tumbs?
Does anyone know if its actually legal to charge for on-the-disc DLC. At the very least, it seems they should have to put a big red sticker on the box to let us know they''re going to charge us later.
Also, Jim, what do you think about Preorder Bonuses
Also, Jim, what do you think about Preorder Bonuses
Some people just don't want to look at the long picture they just want to see the right this very moment.ghost whistler said:
There are lots of people who depend on used games. Some gamers just don't have the money right now to buy that new title because times are tough. Kids can't always depend on that new title from their parents and with their limited income options a used game beats no game. Some gamers want to catch up a series before buying the third game in the series. Perhaps an older game you regret you didn't buy before.
But used games keep those people in the gaming market. Maybe they aren't buying a new game right now but one day they may have the means for a new game. If gaming ever got to the point where only the people who could spend $60 on a game were the only people playing games then that's a smaller pool of potential customers.
this is going to be my personal favor to all you sad filthy people (as in i will be doing this from now on).
whenever you get promo codes and crap for a ps3 game, make a new account and download it, write the account info in the manual, and the next 4 people to buy the game can have the dlc, too. not sure how it works on multiplayer passes, though. i think they just care what system you're on?
whenever you get promo codes and crap for a ps3 game, make a new account and download it, write the account info in the manual, and the next 4 people to buy the game can have the dlc, too. not sure how it works on multiplayer passes, though. i think they just care what system you're on?
Problem with just voting with your wallet is if you take a step by yourself towards the society you want, it's not enough. You do have to complain, with reasoned, rational arguments in order to help other people understand the world you're voting for is one worth living in, otherwise all you can do is feel smug about yourself while reality runs off.AntonMTL said:
Terrible argument? You're one to talk. How the **** are you supposed to know whether you hate a game? I've had plenty of times where my intuition failed me, and I either bought a complete piece of crap, or passed up a masterpiece. Unless you're some sort of omnipotent being, in which case, you must be pretty easily amused to still be playing games.Hitchmeister said:
And you completely forget the case in which a game is good, but you just don't like it. Or a game just isn't worth the $60 you paid for it, but the lower price might make it worth it to someone else.