Jimquisition: Why An Always-On DRM Console Would Be Dumb Dumb Dumb

LordLundar

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Jim touched on this, but I'm going to go a bit further.

The core cause of the current big publisher collapse that we're seeing in slow motion occurring right now is that publishers aren't scared of the consumers. That's right, I said it. In the past, publishers were worried about sales not making profit due to not getting the word out well enough. They were scared of us so they did their damdest to make sure that they were looking to earn customer loyalty because they could not afford to do so.

Today though? Not happening. Publishers not only aren't worried about earning customer loyalty, they expect it and demand it by essentially threatening us. They put review embargoes up, institute always on DRM, threaten to cancel accounts for consumer exercising legal rights, hack up required game content to sell piece meal, etc. because they think they hold the power. Publishers used to serve the role of providing marketing and promotion for developers and their products, now they actively hinder those efforts because they think people will buy the crap anyways. They think customer loyalty and income is some unlimited resource that they can constantly pull more out of with no recourse to feed their bloated business model.

Let's be blunt: NO. IT'S. NOT.


It's going to happen soon as indie markets start getting more refined and crowdfunding holds steady, putting out quality games for far cheaper and earn that loyalty that big publishers realize they don't hold the power that they think. It's time to make the big ticket publishers afraid of us again. It's time they earn that loyalty instead of expecting it. And if they can't? Screw em. Despite what the US Congress thinks, no business is too big to fail. The funeral pyre of the burning shreds of their business will be lovely during a clear, starry night.
 

harryhenry

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Adon Cabre said:
[HEADING=1]the future is always on-line![/HEADING]

Microsoft is preparing for the future. Everything will be online within the next 5 years. With the turning out of more powerful phones -- and that, as we speak, already have the capacity to enable Wifi hotspots -- we will see so much more online software saturating the market. We live and breathe our world through an online connection. Every service is promoted for being faster! Carriers constantly battle it out over network coverage and speed; and people choose the carriers not only out of pricing, but because they believe (or hear from others) that its a consistent, solid bars network.

My brother, a Marine at Pensacola (Florida), Skypes with me whenever he is on. If I wasn't always online, I would not know when he is calling to Skype.


I know people who work exclusively with Google Documents -- it's their word processor, and that they can access from anywhere.

[HEADING=3]It's always dangerous to underestimate the future.[/HEADING]
What about data caps? not eveyone has a fast connection, you know. alot of people have internet that goes down all the time. for instance, i live in new zealand, and down in new zealand, we have very slow internet when compared to everyone else in places like europe and america.
 

Xukog

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Christ, I need to save up and find out how to get a good PC built,every thing I have been hearing lately makes me reconsider buying a console at all.
 

WTG_Nightbringer

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I don't often find myself agreeing with the entirety of a Jimquisition, until now.

Beyond the fact that I already pretty much abandoned my xbox in favor of my PC simply due to the ability to play any game it has plus every old computer game I got kicking around. To not be backwards compatible is insane, and with always online DRM there is a real risk of the server just being turned off in future. Even look at diablo 3. I love the diablo series, and picked up diablo 3 right at midnight on the launch. The damn server issues were so frustrating to me, I said screw the whole thing and am happily playing diablo 2 again.

That's even before getting into the internet connection issues. I live in Canada, and there is enough rural space out here that I don't always have a solid broadband connection, and Im lucky if I get any connection at all. I specifically bought an xbox for my cousin because he doesn't have an internet connection, and could play call of duty and the like with his brothers. Certainly not something I could do if online DRM was required.

I think the main problem with the whole DRM/online debate is that the most affected people won't have their voice heard by the AAA gaming lords. The people that have no internet aren't able to spam them with twitter or email. Its silly that the people who have no internet and therefore play offline, have no way to really communicate effectively back that they dont want online only. Its not like phone companies say "If you have a problem with not being able to call people and want to let us know, be sure to call us". Its just silly.
 

Adon Cabre

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harryhenry said:
Adon Cabre said:
What about data caps? not eveyone has a fast connection, you know. alot of people have internet that goes down all the time. for instance, i live in new zealand, and down in new zealand, we have very slow internet when compared to everyone else in places like europe and america.
My Grandparents immigrated from Mexico because they wanted to provide a better life for their children and grandchildren (like me). Today, I live in California, a state that is thriving in viticulture (Napa Valley), technology (Silicon Valley), sea ports (Los Angeles); and it possesses one of the greatest national parks in the world, Yosemite. All this, and we're about to hit a major recession because of our unbelievable state debt.

I've often thought about moving, but from where I live -- and which is an hour from Sacramento (our capital), two hours from the Pacific, and two hours from Yosemite -- I can visit San Francisco on a Friday, go snowboarding on Saturday, and then protest our state congress that Sunday while watching an American Football Game on my Samsung Galaxy S.

I'm sorry, what I mean to say is: Location, location, location.
 

Adon Cabre

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Zachary Amaranth said:
Adon Cabre said:
I know people who work exclusively with Google Documents
And if they lose their connection for any reason, they're screwed. Since we're not close to that point of technology, not number of claims of DA FYOCHOOR!!! changes matters on shred.
It's very hard to lose a connection in California, because the internet carrier suffers the most when you decide to move onto another. I had fast internet at work, college and at home; and not to mention my cell phone.
 

Vosgy

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I love it, I started thinking about the console games that I've played in the last 12 months.
Tales of Symphonia - GC
Resident Evil 4 - GC
Resident Evil 0 - GC
Grandia 2 - PS2
Grandia - SPS
Parasite Eve 2- SPS

I really don't even want a new console, they all suck atm anyway, I'll stick to my old games :D
 

Reyold

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Man, like I didn't have enough reasons to skip out on this gen already.

The last console I bought was a PS3. At the rate the AAA industry is going, it'll probably be the last console I buy ever, or at least for a long time. Looks like the PC camp has a new member.
 

Kael Arawn

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Instead of writing a brand new response to the option?s Mr Sterling raised in his fine video today I have simply collated my posts I made in another thread here at the escapist discussing the same thing so I apologize if there a bit disjointed.

Also Jim would have been spot on if the NEXT was a simply ?gaming consoles? and its not so it seems he?s missed the point completely.

Right of the bat people have to stop thinking as Microsoft as a game company, I also think referring to the xbox as part of Microsoft's gaming division or saying Microsoft even has a gaming divisions as a whole is oxymoronic as Microsoft has a MEDIA ENTERTAINMENT division and that's a completely different thing.

Ever since the first Xbox was released it has been Microsoft's intent to provide a content distribution system that is accepted as a standard device in a living room simply because pcs never really have been and the end goal of this strategy has always been to become a MAJOR PLAYER in the digital distribution market with each console offering more and more functions besides gaming.

The issue is that Apple bet them to the punch with iTunes and the explosion of the popularity of the idevice, ever since then they have been scrambling to regain a market share that they felt they lost before they even had there foot properly in the door.

So let's apply this paradigm to the NEXT box, let's say the NEXT box comes out and 90% of its sub functions are locked behind an online gate and said functions that they have locked away are aimed at digital distribution of movies, music, streaming tv, etc. Then add into the equation the fact that a very large portion of common society still doesn't have a damn clue what they're doing when it comes to digital distribution, it would be highly advantageous for Microsoft to start marketing there next console as always online as it would alleviate all the BS that comes from a customer not understanding why half the functions there device offers are not functional as if they have to "connected to the net to have it work from the start" so most of the extra crap would function out of the box.

I totally agree that the fact that being online would be a deterrent to at least a third of their potential customer base but if those customer are only using the machine to play games which Microsoft get a much smaller cut from them profit wise vs say a digital music sale on a unit by unit basis why would they expend resources/effort trying to keep them.

So focusing on those people who do buy it and use it online as a digital distribution machine would more than make up for the lost customer basis and thus the concept of dead commercial weight is applicable i.e. where keeping existing customer happy far outweighs the benefits of focusing on bringing in new customers after a different more cost effective service.

I also agree that most modern smart tvs have all the functions that a xbox offers built in but as I have stated previously most common users don't even understand this stuff let alone set it up or use it and Microsoft have MASSIVE brand recognition with the Xbox as a media extending online thingy already and people are used to comfort and convenience so if they are used to the Xbox name as well as the functionality already for that type of stuff they will stick with it, which brings me to my next point.

Do you have any clue how excited most media company would be by the concept of a locked down media distribution system for home use with even a portion of the xboxs current market share? I guarantee you there's a lot of music executives getting rather excited by the prospect right now as it offers drm control ON ALL stuff sold via the network, and Microsoft would be looking to please the people who own IP rights on this type of stuff now more than ever as making fat stacks of cash for selling other peoples product on your own digital distribution networks is a very lucrative industry practice just ask valve.

Look at what Microsoft did with window's 8 a large portion of its new functionality is expressly designed to make it easier for the customers to buy crap from them and with brand named services like skype that they are building into the console as a base function I can see how there marketing push for the thing will have VERY little to do with gaming (it will be a afterthought).

This is also self-evident if you look at their actual game output as a company, they used to fund more game development BEFORE the advent of the xbox and there actual game division has only got smaller over time (Ensemble I shall for ever morn ye!).

I also wouldn't be surprised if they severely decrease the cost of live with the NEXT or even make it free outside of paying for your actual subscriptions to services (netflix) or for multiplayer gaming, and I would be very surprised if they don't have some type of limited offline mode for games as all games will be force installed to a hard drive anyway according to other news on the console and I expect them to start trying to push the zune/window's phone/window's 8 shared infrastructure a lot more through marketing/sales and those work on an account locked offline model so why wouldn't the NEXT.

I think we simply have to accept that all the mega bucks in the gaming/personal entertainment field are in selling and marketing to the majority and we (dedicated gamers) are NO LONGER THE MAJORITY OF A CONSOLES SALES MARKET!

I also probably won?t buy one for myself. Well in till there are some universally cool mods available for it, at which stage since it force installs all game to a hard drive im expecting "the scene" to mod in NoCd.xex support which will lead to a FLOOD of piracy kinda like pc (.xex is the xbox executable extension).

But i will be selling them if a customer asks for one and i expect there to be descent demand for them, as opposed to the WiiU which i have only sold 13 of since release (and i haven't bought one for myself yet either).

The main point is that dedicated gamers are being deluded if they think there (our) numbers matter in the long run.

Also has anyone stopped to think that Microsoft might be simply getting ahead of the curb on this one, even Sony thinks that by the time the PS5 roles around game streaming services like on live will dominate the gaming scene and Microsoft might be aiming for the NEXT to be the last console they ever make as by the time the PS5 arrives they can simply start using the grunt of the NEXT to stream games from a dedicated server and that means once again our short term hatred for the thing is meaningless in the long term.

Also its pretty much confirmed that BLURAY will be the last form of physical media advancement we ever get outside of SSD's and it has a BLURAY drive.

Remember its already confirmed the thing will work with any old usb device as storage and its rumoured that it will have 2.5' sata bay as well which will just lead more credence to the concept that its designed to be around for quite a while and is aimed at digital distribution of entertainment first and foremost.

The real solutions to everyone woes, GET A DECENT SHUTTLE PC with a ps3 or 360 control and bind them to it and install steam.

And if it?s to "pcey" for you pay a nerd to customize the ass out of it so its user friendly.

Seriously EVERYTHING you all want is perennially available on a pc (universal backwards compatibility, offline mode etc) and i bet you can get one for less than a new console at launch and there open ended architecture, so you can swap out cards when its underpowered instead of buying a brand new console every 5 years.

So pc, less expensive, offers more for much less, plus 1 billion other reasons, and everyone seems to hate where newer consoles are going, so why are ppls still obsessed with gaming on them (consoles that is)?

Also the fact that so many people are bitching about the lock out of pre-owned games from the system are also missing the point. The modern paradigm is to sell a game digitally for less than it would cost to buy a game pre-owned and if you can?t afford to buy a brand new game at launch for $30 then you can?t afford gaming which is a luxury pastime.

Case point I can name at least 6 different sites that have steam cdkeys for bioshock infinite right now for only $30 and at such a low sales marker for brand new product WTF is a pre-owned market even needed?

But then I liked deus ex invisible war so all my options should be seen as those of a ranting mad man :)
 

harryhenry

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Adon Cabre said:
harryhenry said:
Adon Cabre said:
What about data caps? not eveyone has a fast connection, you know. alot of people have internet that goes down all the time. for instance, i live in new zealand, and down in new zealand, we have very slow internet when compared to everyone else in places like europe and america.
My Grandparents immigrated from Mexico because they wanted to provide a better life for their children and grandchildren (like me). Today, I live in California, a state that is thriving in viticulture (Napa Valley), technology (Silicon Valley), sea ports (Los Angeles); and it possesses one of the greatest national parks in the world, Yosemite. All this, and we're about to hit a major recession because of our unbelievable state debt.

I've often thought about moving, but from where I live -- and which is an hour from Sacramento (our capital), two hours from the Pacific, and two hours from Yosemite -- I can visit San Francisco on a Friday, go snowboarding on Saturday, and then protest our state congress that Sunday while watching an American Football Game on my Samsung Galaxy S.

I'm sorry, what I mean to say is: Location, location, location.
so basically, "MOVE TO A BETTER PLACE, NEANDERTALS, BECAUSE THE FUTURE, *****!" is what you're saying?
edit: also, yosemite has a giant supervolcano underneath, and in san fransisco, a giant earthquake can destroy an entire city, and that earthquake has a 99% chane oof happening within the next 20 years.
 

Eve Charm

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I wouldn't be surprised if the guy gets fired soon for the tweeter comments.

I'm always online 99% of the time, but god forbid when I'm knee deep in a game my modem resets itself or on their end the server resets it self and I lose progress in my game and can do nothing but sit on my butt till it comes back.

I'm waiting for the next kicker " we make you be online all the time with our console, but you still have to pay 60 a year if you want to be online and play and chat with anyone.

I just know I'll be staying away from anything that requires it online all the time.
 

Adon Cabre

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harryhenry said:
Adon Cabre said:
harryhenry said:
Adon Cabre said:
snip
so basically, "MOVE TO A BETTER PLACE, NEANDERTALS, BECAUSE THE FUTURE, *****!" is what you're saying?
edit: also, yosemite has a giant supervolcano underneath, and in san fransisco, a giant earthquake can destroy an entire city, and that earthquake has a 99% chane oof happening within the next 20 years.
That's some funny stuff! but basically... yeah. Spot on. Just move, or wait until Australia catches up. I, however, have no idea how anything goes on down there. Oh well.
 

lastjustice

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Anyone who thinks making a always online gaming Consule in order for it to function is a good idea should be grounds to cleanse them from this world. They're either too stupid or morally bankrupt to continue contributing anything to society. This does not need to ever happen and defeats the things good about consules. Sometimes the internet goes out due all kinds of stuff. There's endless things that can and will go wrong. Horrible idea, no matter how much developers think they d get to keep from gamestop or other sources from getting on the used market, this is the epitome of diminshing returns.
 

Kael Arawn

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Your Gaffer said:
Jim is against an always online console? Who wouldda thunk it?
Lol well put. It's like the sky being blue, it's a forgone conclusion.

It seems Jim is just afraid of one of the possible futures for consoles as most other people on these forums.

Ppls wake up and smell the coffee, eventually the majority (if not all) of your electronic entertainment devices will be always on in one way or another and you really are being pissed with Microsoft for simply being the first to adopt a inevitability of the future in practice.

Its also criminal how Jim tends to only focus on one side of the proverbial coin in relation to issues he covers and said side is always aligned with his personal opinion.

Wheres his rant on the benefits of the modern digital paradigm and how much it has reduced the cost of sales at launch vs the loss of pre-owned gaming? (As it truly is one or the other, the industry cant sustain both).

Or a rant about the fact that consoles are used for ALOT more then gaming these days and that the audience for a device like the NEXT is infinitely bigger because of it and most of those function require a internet connection?

I would even go as far as to say hes slightly bigoted towards the subject.
 

Your Gaffer

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Kael Arawn said:
Your Gaffer said:
Jim is against an always online console? Who wouldda thunk it?
Lol well put. It's like the sky being blue, it's a forgone conclusion.

It seems Jim is just afraid of one of the possible futures for consoles as most other people on these forums.

Ppls wake up and smell the coffee, eventually the majority (if not all) of your electronic entertainment devices will be always on in one way or another and you really are being pissed with Microsoft for simply being the first to adopt a inevitability of the future in practice.
I actually have to disagree with you here. You seem to assume that people are mad that there is supposedly going to an online requirement. I don't think that is the case. I think people are upset that it will have to ALWAYS be online.

Steam is online. I am almost always logged into Steam. BUT, if I want to I can go into offline mode. If I do it deliberately I never have to go back online unless I want to activate new products or install updates.

If I lose my internet connection unexpectedly I have 3 MONTHS to play my games before I have to connect again. Microsoft's next xbox will supposedly let you play for 3 MINUTES. That is pretty terrible and places a major inconvenience on a large portion of the next xbox's market.

You say everything will be online, I think you are correct there. I don't think you are necessarily right in your assumption that everything will have to online all the time. I think there will be enough push back that the most successful platforms, like Steam, will have offline modes that are more flexible for consumers.
 

Kael Arawn

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Your Gaffer said:
Kael Arawn said:
Your Gaffer said:
Jim is against an always online console? Who wouldda thunk it?
Lol well put. It's like the sky being blue, it's a forgone conclusion.

It seems Jim is just afraid of one of the possible futures for consoles as most other people on these forums.

Ppls wake up and smell the coffee, eventually the majority (if not all) of your electronic entertainment devices will be always on in one way or another and you really are being pissed with Microsoft for simply being the first to adopt a inevitability of the future in practice.
I actually have to disagree with you here. You seem to assume that people are mad that there is supposedly going to an online requirement. I don't think that is the case. I think people are upset that it will have to ALWAYS be online.

Steam is online. I am almost always logged into Steam. BUT, if I want to I can go into offline mode. If I do it deliberately I never have to go back online unless I want to activate new products or install updates.

If I lose my internet connection unexpectedly I have 3 MONTHS to play my games before I have to connect again. Microsoft's next xbox will supposedly let you play for 3 MINUTES. That is pretty terrible and places a major inconvenience on a large portion of the next xbox's market.

You say everything will be online, I think you are correct there. I don't think you are necessarily right in your assumption that everything will have to online all the time. I think there will be enough push back that the most successful platforms, like Steam, will have offline modes that are more flexible for consumers.
If we where its core market i would agree but i ardently believe where not, also there hasn't been any real announcement on how there offline game system will work (or if the NEXT will even have one).

In previous posts I compared what i presume Microsoft will do with what they have already done with windows 8 and that's have a system that requires internet connectivity to "initialize" a account and any content attached to it.

But windows 8 doesn't stop letting you listen to music if your net connection drops out so why would the NEXT?

I actually think the REAL application of the always online concept will be a system that automatically powers it self onto low powered mode and does a but load of stuff autonomously without the user agreeing (updates etc) via the net and automatically reconnects if disconnected etc JUST LIKE WINDOWS 8 (in till you turn of all the crap that is).

But none of this changes the fact that EVERYONE is commenting from the point of view about how it will work for them personally as opposed to a industry concept and that's what it is.

I live in a small country town in Australia and the best I can do internet wise here is a 8 meg ADSL 1 connection but that doesn't stop people in my town using there consoles as NETFLIX machines and they don't complain to Microsoft when the nets down and they cant watch media they simply accept that it is.

And in Australia we need to run our xboxs through a proxy to even get netfix, whih just shows how dedicated some users are to using there xbox for stuff besides gaming.

I also wont be buying one as its not viable for me as a product as it doesn't match my needs from a entertainment device (my pc does though) but simply because i don't see it as viable for me doesn't mean i cant understand that there's a market for the thing and the benefits it offers to Microsoft and the industry.

EDIT

And even if it does require a always online net connection to play and stops you from playing when the connection not there it would only be a issue to a person who owns it and if the concept annoys anyone so much that there not willing to buy it then there not a portion of the NEXT boxs potential market share and thusly it doesn't place a inconvenience on them.
 

Jezzascmezza

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I'm sorry, but has anyone else ever questioned the significance of the images of shrimps?
I've seen most episodes of the Jimquisition, and had kind of accepted the random shrimps until now- now I really need to know why they're there.