Jimquisition: Why An Always-On DRM Console Would Be Dumb Dumb Dumb

Bindal

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Azriel Nightshade said:
Why is always on-line for consols detrimental, but always online via Steam exempt from scrutiny?
Well, primarily because Steam is NOT "Always on". In fact, after installing a game and starting it for the first time, you never need to be online with Steam again.
The only things you need to be online for with Steam are:
1) Downloading and installing games/updates (obviously)
2) Using of Steamcloud (optional anyway) and Achievements (which are optional, too)
3) To play Multiplayer games using Steamworks (in which case you need to be online, anyway even if Steam wouldn't be part of the whole deal)
 

Kael Arawn

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Bindal said:
Azriel Nightshade said:
Why is always on-line for consols detrimental, but always online via Steam exempt from scrutiny?
Well, primarily because Steam is NOT "Always on". In fact, after installing a game and starting it for the first time, you never need to be online with Steam again.
The only things you need to be online for with Steam are:
1) Downloading and installing games/updates (obviously)
2) Using of Steamcloud (optional anyway) and Achievements (which are optional, too)
3) To play Multiplayer games using Steamworks (in which case you need to be online, anyway even if Steam wouldn't be part of the whole deal)
Bingo! But to start the process of even activating a game you need to have steam connected to the net to begin with and that's completely different to how the xbox 360 works so if Microsoft where to launch the NEXT with a account system that requires all games to be activated via a online account system and then offers offline play just like steam wouldn't it be easier to explain it to the generalized public as always on as its such a huge paradigm change after what most users got used to with the XBOX 360 and it does indeed require a internet connection at least once during the activation process?
 

008Zulu_v1legacy

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That was glorious. "Deal With it." What a beautiful phrase, I imagine we will enjoy saying it to them when the time comes more than we should.
 

blackrave

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Why stop here M$?
Get together with Sony and make PlayBox
Always on-line+Console locked discs+Useless gimmicks+Questionable software+Crappy hardware+Price it at $1k=perfect console
That would be instant hit.
 

Kael Arawn

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blackrave said:
Why stop here M$?
Get together with Sony and make PlayBox
Always on-line+Console locked discs+Useless gimmicks+Questionable software+Crappy hardware+Price it at $1k=perfect console
That would be instant hit.
I prefer X-Station myself :)

And the sad thing is it would probably sell like hotcakes even if they did that.
 

endplanets

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Dear Jim: I sincerely hope that there is a second part to this because (even after this good vid) there is still so much that was left out.

* Hackers can shut down Microsoft servers and delete/steal player's data. Like when the PSN network got hacked, only way, way worse.
* Some parents are so dumb they can't install a NES, and now they have to plug in and log in. This is another hurdle that will shun away new users.
* Microsoft will constantly be spying on you.
* No really. Microsoft will be literally watching you while you play. Rumors say that in addition to Always Online the Kinect must be able to watch you play. And lets say you have a few friends over to watch a movie on your Next Xbox. The Kinect will turn the console off unless you pay it extra money for the new viewers.

http://www.extremetech.com/gaming/139706-microsofts-new-kinect-patent-goes-big-brother-will-spy-on-you-for-the-mpaa
 

Norix596

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The potential conflict with Gamestop had not occurred to me. It probably won't come to this but it would be a fairly interesting scenario if Gamestop threatened to not shelve any Durango games for the duration of the cycle if Microsoft is set on always-online.

As with others, if these rumors turn out to be true and if the always online requirement isn't scrapped I will be making the transition to PC gaming for the next cycle. I've always been a console gamer but there are just too many advantages to PC gaming not limited to more frequent patches and fixes than the ones that get past Microsoft approval and the much cheaper game opportunities available through Steam.

The things that consoles have going for them, namely the lack of a need to worry if your hardware is powerful enough to run a game and familiarity with a controller, have been barely enough to keep me in the fold - if the Durango launches with always-online, it will put me over the edge to PC gaming. Steam is already cheaper even with the presence of the used game market for physical discs - image the price differential if list price is the only price.
 

Samantha Burt

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Adon Cabre said:
harryhenry said:
Adon Cabre said:
harryhenry said:
Adon Cabre said:
snip
so basically, "MOVE TO A BETTER PLACE, NEANDERTALS, BECAUSE THE FUTURE, *****!" is what you're saying?
edit: also, yosemite has a giant supervolcano underneath, and in san fransisco, a giant earthquake can destroy an entire city, and that earthquake has a 99% chane oof happening within the next 20 years.
That's some funny stuff! but basically... yeah. Spot on. Just move, or wait until Australia catches up. I, however, have no idea how anything goes on down there. Oh well.
Holy crap, Adam Orth has an account on the Escapist?

OT: Honestly, that last 45 seconds or so was magnificent. So well done; I loved it~
 

Dascylus

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I am a gamer, I love my games.
But I am fickle and have other things I could do.
If I want to play a game and the server keeps fucking up I will get frustrated and keep trying.
If the server is persistently unreliable I'll find something else to do.

There are 4 people in the house, 3 gamers, 3 gaming PCs, 2 Xboxes, 3 Playstations, a metric ton of movies and tv series, mates living just down the road and the best bar in town 15 minutes away.
I have a girlfriend in stockholm and 2 kids in Göteborg.

Your server reliability has to be easy enough to distract me from that.
Peggle was genius, so was Portal because they were easy to grab when I have some time to play.
I like games like Skyrim and Fallout because I am alone in my world anytime I want.
If you take away my immersion you will lose me as a customer and I'm sure I am not a unique snowflake in this.
 

Soak

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Tehe, that one was almost to easy looking at the current circumstances and that you kinda already dealt with the topic in your episode about SimShitty.

However, at the end of SimShitty you suggested we should stay calm... so, how about a good riot now? C'mon, i wanna go all wild in the streets raging about the (game)industry and seize the upper floors of game-publishers and maybe some studios too, kicking out the greedy marketing and whatnot head-figures. Eh, eh, how about it?
Let's bring em the next game-console "crisis" and then we can all stand before them, shades on and say "deal with it"!
Sounds good i think.
 

ThunderCavalier

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I've said it many times before, but I think one more time is good.

Your servers have a tendency to crash and the Internet connection is still too unreliable to make an always-on console more of a benefit than a liability to me.

I guess I won't be buying your new Xbox.

#dealwithit
 

Lightknight

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ThunderCavalier said:
I've said it many times before, but I think one more time is good.

Your servers have a tendency to crash and the Internet connection is still too unreliable to make an always-on console more of a benefit than a liability to me.

I guess I won't be buying your new Xbox.

#dealwithit
I understand your post is in the negative but I want to address one potential grey area in your post that people may not get. The point where you say that because two things aren't reliable it is a liability instead of a benefit. This implies that if fixed, they can eventually become a benefit. Always on will NEVER be a benefit to you. Why would it be? Games that are online when they're supposed to be but can be played offline when not necessary are what benefit you. Can you tell me a reason why being unable to play your system offline would help you EVEN if their servers are reliable and the internet connection is perfect? Don't get me wrong, the ability to connect with friends like what the ps4 allows is nice, but being unable to go offline at all only hurts us. It's the inability part. There's no reason why we wouldn't want to be able to do both where possible.

As I said in another thread, 720 may have always online but 1080 will try to push for a constant stream of blood and stool data. Hopefully we'll draw a line with the system that demands a rectal probe be inserted during gameplay. I don't know if I'm being too subtle here but what I'm saying is that they're being invasive. The funny (stupid) thing is, I don't know that biometric data is entirely off the table in the future if they could do it affordably. Not the stuff I jokingly said, but finger print scanners, heart beat trackers that learn patterns of the typical user, face tracking and recognition (already available with the kinect). Imagine a day where systems could potentially prevent two people in the same house from playing the same copy of the game without paying some bogus fee. While hopefully unlikely, I'm not too sure they wouldn't try to do it at some point. Interestingly enough, this stuff would be great to discourage theft of your machine.

This is only their attempt at DRM and perhaps a few other things. This is not a decision for a console to make. This is a decision for individual IPs to make and for consumers to be able to decide not to buy them because of it. This is a foolish and invasive method that assumes a criminal of all of us. The thing about a console forcing it is that I could not illegally download the 720, I had to obtain the physical machine to use it. So while I might cringe at software for doing it, I understand their desire to DRM it with always online even though I (and I'm sure a few other gamers) won't buy their stuff whenever we find out that they've done that. But it makes no sense to DRM hardware. Not unless you specifically want to piss off consumers and treat them like thieves. I'll also point out that piracy of console games is a heck of a lot harder than pc's and pc's will always work offline even if the software doesn't. So if their goal is to make us go to their competitors then so be it.
 

veloper

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Wishful thinking. The industry has already managed to do this on PC and so they will succeed on the consoles aswell.

Not all PC games have always-online DRM either and it all started with just a couple AAA games like ME and Spore. None of the early boycots gained much support and PC gamers are supposed to be the fanatical and savvy crowd. M$ and Sony can follow exactly the same path on consoles, as this slow boil has succeeded before.

So you make a new xbox and you add just a chip and some firmware to facilitate DRM schemes and then you gradually, over the course of several years, lock down more new releases with always-online DRM.
Us old hands will still complain, but the new blood won't see it and that's all that matters. They already bought the console; the first generation of games worked fine and now they want the latest, top rated AAA games for their consoles even if it's a hassle to make it work.
 

Lightknight

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veloper said:
Wishful thinking. The industry has already managed to do this on PC and so they will succeed on the consoles aswell.

Not all PC games have always-online DRM either and it all started with just a couple AAA games like ME and Spore. None of the early boycots gained much support and PC gamers are supposed to be the fanatical and savvy crowd. M$ and Sony can follow exactly the same path on consoles, as this slow boil has succeeded before.

So you make a new xbox and you add just a chip and some firmware to facilitate DRM schemes and then you gradually, over the course of several years, lock down more new releases with always-online DRM.
Us old hands will still complain, but the new blood won't see it and that's all that matters. They already bought the console; the first generation of games worked fine and now they want the latest, top rated AAA games for their consoles even if it's a hassle to make it work.
Software-level always on DRM is completely different from hardware-level always on DRM. Think of all the complaints Jim has about just software-level always on DRM and then multiply it by EVERY game. Imagine being unable to play a movie because your internet is down.

One makes us unable to play certain games offline, the other renders a machine we've purchased unusable offline. PC's cannot be made to do that unless some vital hardware component of PCs is suddenly monopolized and forced to require it. Unlikely since any competing hardware company that refuses to do it would suddenly get all the business.
 

Alar

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Hot damn, Jim! You were seriously channeling some badass mojo towards the end there. Very nice.
 

TheSteeleStrap

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Azriel Nightshade said:
Why is always on-line for consols detrimental, but always online via Steam exempt from scrutiny?

I'm not asking this to be contrarian or witty, I'm generally curious. Mainly because the only two PC games I play are WoW and LoL, both on an 5 year old iMac. So I'm a bit out of the loop.
While you do need an online connection to obtain your games on Steam, it will still function if you lose that connection, that's the difference.
 

Jman1236

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The more people keep talking about DRM on the next xbox, the more I don't want it and the more I'm willing to pay in full for a ps4.
 

Waddles

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Me likey. Australian internet sucks. While the current government is implementing a high speed broadband network, if they lose the upcoming election it get put on the backburner. The majority of aussies wouldn't be able to play consoles if they were always online.