Jimquisition: Xbox 360 and PS3 Are Just Very Crap PCs

[Aprilgold]

I wouldn't say consoles start as very crap PCs. Most of their launches, I'll admit, are rather decent because of the launch titles that invite the consumer to try it out with few hassles.

No. I'd say that most consoles are now trying to be like PCs. With updates, patches, online, etc., but don't do it quite as well because they're usually closed platforms bound to a corporation. PCs, on the other hand, are open and the owners of games are free to do whatever they want with their game.

How exactly are you disagreeing with him here, since your saying "No they are not shit PC's" followed by "They are bad PC clones". I just don't get this honestly, if you care to elaborate could you?

Well, i feared that Consoles would become more like the PC to the Point where i woudn't even bother. And now we have Additional Hardware for consoles that you have to calibrate and then it still wont work all the time.
I'm looking at the kinect here, if you haven't guessed yet.
I might be a bit overly zealos about my Controller being reliable. I don't buy wireless hardware not only because the hassle with the charging Batteries that wont keep my Mouse operating for more then 4 hours. I don't buy them because when they get wonky it will be when i'm in the little of the most difficult Bossfight i ever fought.

I'd like the Hardware i control my Games with to be as acurate and reliable as possible. That has not been the Case with old analogue Joysticks for the old flight simulators, which is why i never bothered with them.
Same thing with any motion controller: not acurate and not reliable enough. You have to calibrate them and then it wont work right. PC users are right at home.

Next thing, involuntary updates. I'm looking at the Playstation here. We all know the Problem and we all find it annoying. Funny Story here, i know People who where so angry when steam came out that they switched over to console. And they play Console to this Day.
Steam can be told to not update. So maybe some People might eventually come back to PC gaming.


Another thing is the Hardware of the consoles. Flimsy at best. No really, this is buildquality that the Customer shouldn't tolerate. People who buy Consoles have no right to complain about modern tech breaking down right after the Guarantee runs out.


The PC Market is being slowly killed off by opyprotection software that acts like a Virus, lacking Ports from the Console and Other Software issues. Like Drivers.

But the Consoles really do give the PC a run for its Money when it comes to annoy and rip off the Customer.
Well, on the PC, there is a slight Chance that someone will make a Tool that fixes some issues.

Captcha: Goody two Shoe. Wut?

Is it alright if I just chalk your whole post up to "Doesn't fully understand what he / she is saying" Because you don't.

I'll tackle this from the bottom of your post up.

1. PC's aren't entering ads into their games that will stop your play like Consoles do. PC's do have more problems but has shown that it is capable of bringing up completely new genres into the public's eye ala Minecraft's Building n' Mining Genre and MOBA.

2. This is wrong, steam had 4,622,753 as of 10:48 on the 8th of July. Four million users that logged into Steam, four mil is not a small number by any stretch. This is just Steam as well, others such as League of Legends rake in more people if I am correct. If by "Slowly killed off" you mean skyrocketed like Team Rocket then you are right.

3. This is true but theres a reason the guarantee lasts like that, mainly money.

4. Then your friends have 0 patience to play their games. Steam will run the updates in the background while your at school or work or wherever you happen to be if you leave your computer on during the day / night and when you come back your game's will be ready. Aside from this, yes you can tell Steam to not update unless you ask it too but honestly, there is no reason you can't let it download over the night unless you have bandwith caps.

However this isn't a problem anymore with PC's, accessibility to games on Consoles has become just as big of a issue with all the code entering you must do to access certain parts of a game and then wait for it to verify. In essence I can buy a game on Steam now, once downloaded I will get into the game faster then a person who just bought their game from Gamestop.

5. The comment on joysticks actually is against your point because those are no longer used and are rarely supported anymore. Keyboards and Mice are the two things that are mostly used in games along with Analog Controllers, which often have support and varied support such as rebindable keys.

I also have no idea what your calibration tid-bit is about. PC games don't usually require Calibration at all, unless you want to rebind a key or change the resolution / graphics options but that isn't necessary in the slightest.

Overall, all your points on the Console's were correct, all of your points on PC's are out-of-date. Also, I felt I needed this tagline.

[small] *Enjoying the death of PC Gaming since the 1980s. [/small]

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The only thing I will ever say that Jim got right, good job Jim.

 

[teh_gunslinger]

Sure that's all true but to implement all those advantages you still have to be some sort of nerd to get it going. Consoles are still the easiest way to go. Give a ten year old all the necessary equipment to achieve what you described on the PC and they wouldn't know where to start. I don't know how to hook up my PC to a TV, connect a controller to a PC, or handle all the computer specs stuff. All that is another barrier.

I don't know what's it like on the PS3, but besides online passes, the Xbox 360 is still very straight forward buy the game and you play when you get home. Yes, mods are the holy grail, but navigating the computer system is still way harder than an Xbox.

Xbox has a simpler set up and attract more of the general population. Sure PC is a step up, but you would have to level up yourself to get there.

PCs are great, but there is a reason why all my friends have Xbox Live. Like Weed is Xbox 360 and Cocaine is PC. You start with Weed first and graduate if you are really trying to reach the clouds.

To hook a PC up to the TV you put one end of the HDMI cord in the computer, and the other into the PC.
To hook a controller up to the PC, you put one end of the charger cord in the USB port on your computer, and one in the controller.

It isn't as cut and dry as you think for controllers. Xbox yes because of windows but to hook up my ps3 controller I had to download 2 different softwares and edit them.

Then I'd argue you did it wrong. MotioninJoy or whatever the hell it's called does the trick and also fools the games into thinking my PS3 controller is a 360 one, which makes it easier to make it work with those games where the devs were so lazy they only implemented 360 support.

 

[Kroxile]

I call BS. A graphics card that can run today's stuff runs about $160. OS is anywhere from 100-200. Processor is at least $110. So I'm guessing you're fudging your numbers.

EDIT: Decided to use Newegg for prices

Average Processor: $171 (Low of 139)
OS: $99
Video Card: $233 (Low of 159)
Sound Card: $60 (Low of $39)
Case: $78 (Low of 35)

That's over $700 right there on average. So yeah, I'm calling BS.

Say whatever you want. I haven't fudged anything.

Sorry that you're wrong bro, but... well, you are.

Don't buy walmart computers haha.

 

[Wicky_42]

Um...pcs are expensive and require upgrades to the pc itself to play new games. They are still a bigger hassle. That outweighs anything a pc can do as most gamers wont spend 15000 dollars to have higher definition graphics that add fuck all to the game itself.

Thank you for making me laugh! (Goes back to playing both cutting edge and wonderfully retro games on a five year old £800 machine)

But mostly, thank GOD for Jim, for not being afraid to stand up and say what most people looking objectively can see... and for basically trolling a huge part of his audience

 

[A_Parked_Car]

Thank God for Jim. This was a great episode.

That being said, as a PC gamer I can see why people would prefer console gaming. If you are somebody who knows about as much about computers as I do about relationships (that is to say...nothing), then troubleshooting computer hardware and software problems can be a real pain.

Cost can be an issue, although not as big a one as many of the people on here seem to believe. You don't need to upgrade very often and even the initial cost of a gaming PC isn't that much if you don't want to go completely over-the-top (which is pointless in my opinion).

I find that I enjoy PC gaming more than console gaming in every possible way. Not like I would have a choice between the two since my preferred genre of game is the RTS. XD

 

[NinthPlanet86]

I have mixed feelings about Jim's argument.

I agree on the digital download issue. A large number of Xbox 360 games are not available for convenient digital download. Even if they are, they are often more expensive than purchasing the hard copy from an online retailer within a few months of a game's release.

Games consoles tend to use manufacturer-specific devices. The Xbox 360-S hard drive is a 2.5" laptop HDD with a special case, but one cannot easily use a cheaper generic 2.5" hard drive. This makes the costs of peripherals expensive. Pricing is, however, a complicated issue. I'm in two minds whether consoles are more, or less expensive than PCs. The peripherals and games certainly cost a lot more, but one doesn't have to replace a console as often as a PC if one wants a good performance from a game.

Games consoles are arguably more environmentally friendly because constant upgrades to a PC create a substantial amount of e-waste. Since it doesn't need to run games, my home PC is still going strong five years after it was assembled and, assuming that one has an original that has yet to suffer from the red ring of death, an Xbox 360 could still be running after six years.

I don?t buy that many games, so I'm quite happy with my fairly old PC/Xbox 360 combination. I guess whether Jim is right or wrong depends on how often you play video games and what experience you want out of them.

 

[Arakasi]

A shitstorm is coming.

It sure is, better grab the popcorn cause this is gonna be good.

You may or may not be sick of being quoted by now, but in a shitstorm I think I would reach for the umbrella before the popcorn.

OT: I see where Jim is coming from, however I do feel that it is a lot easier for devs to program for a console.
Compatability is a *****. Seriously, my PC Fallout 3 was so buggy I had to buy the console version.

Let us all just say that the Nintendo 64 is by far more superior than both the Xbox360, the Playstation 3 and the PC. Oh and the Wii. I probably shouldn't forget that.

 

[Don't taze me bro]

I have all 3 current gen consoles and a gaming PC that's about 2 years old. Since purchasing the gaming PC, I have turned on my PS3 about 6 times, to play and finish Uncharted 3 and turned my Xbox on maybe as many times, for some multiplayer Castle Crashers.

I'm on my PC daily. All my games (many bought at bargain prices due to digital distribution), my chat clients (Steam / MSN / Xfire / Ventrilo), the internet and a plethora of F2P games (Tribes / LoL / TF2) means that I rarely now buy or feel the need to play on my consoles. My son (who is now 5) likes to play them, and I'm fine with that.

Not everyone can afford a decent PC. That's fine. Consoles can fill and satisfy their needs, but a decent gaming PC provides a much more satisfying experience.

 

[NinthPlanet86]

I see where Jim is coming from, however I do feel that it is a lot easier for devs to program for a console.
Compatability is a *****. Seriously, my PC Fallout 3 was so buggy I had to buy the console version.

That's a good point. I guess the reason is that consoles tend to have a more stable hardware and software environment, which reduces the number of potential issues. I recall that the PC version of Rage had a problem with ATI/AMD graphics cards.

 

[medv4380]

Um...pcs are expensive and require upgrades to the pc itself to play new games. They are still a bigger hassle. That outweighs anything a pc can do as most gamers wont spend 15000 dollars to have higher definition graphics that add fuck all to the game itself.

snip

And everyone who owns a console is going to be able to find a PC at even a fraction of that value? Just a year ago I spent a couple of weeks looking on Newegg for a computer that could run most PC games and I could not find one that could run a Skyrim level game on lower settings for under $1200.

snip.

Sorry i didnt want to scroll up but I am backing you here...

less than 30 seconds at Newegg: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16883108938

less than 2 minutes: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16883203766

Someones argument holds water like a bucket made out of window screen.

You honestly think that the AMD Radeon HD 6320 and 6530D are valid gaming graphics cards? Maybe if you use photoshop for gaming.

if you're playing at 720 or 1080 it will run circles around the Xbox 360, and since most games are a port of console titles(which are made to run on six year old hardware) this should give you everything you will need for the next two or three years(at which time new consoles come out).

You honestly believe that?
The 360 can perform double what the 6320 can do in almost every category. In terms of Pixels and Textures it kicks that scrawny cards all over the place. Every other stat they are the same in terms of Memory Clock, Core Clock, and Bandwidth. The only notable difference is that the 6320 supports DirectX 11 and all that means is that the new API will work with it not that it's faster. Anyone who thinks that those cards are anywhere near "running circles" around the 360 needs to get their heads examined. Those cards are at the bottom of the heap and are made to barely support the current OS and Work Place Software. They are not gaming cards. It only supports Direct X 11 so that Windows 8 will work on it.

 

[Poisoned Al]

Games consoles are arguably more environmentally friendly because constant upgrades to a PC BLAH BLAH BLAH

Yes, well done console owners for perpetuating the stereotype for being clearly too fucking stupid or lazy to read. If you had stopped gumming your controller for five minutes to read even a part of this thread, you would have realised that the "constant upgrade" argument has been brought up then slapped down time and again.

 

[CaptainOctopus]

Really? No.

I own 14 games for my PS3. 3 of them bought at $60, the rest used for between 15 and 40. My PS3 cost me $300.

My PC cost me $600 (Monitor included). It was purchased 3 years ago. It cannot run any current AAA titles. Skyrim will not run on it. Crysis... yeah no. Battlefield? No. I bought 2 games at $60, and the rest were around 10 to 15.

Cost analysis? Console was cheaper, and can actually run games from this year.

Moral of this story: Don't buy walmart computers.

My PC cost me $700 with the monitor, is 3 years old, hasn't been upgraded in any way since I bought it, and it plays every game on full on high or ultra settings at 60+ FPS.

Sorry your analysis is wrong.

Captcha: i love you

I call BS. A graphics card that can run today's stuff runs about $160. OS is anywhere from 100-200. Processor is at least $110. So I'm guessing you're fudging your numbers.

EDIT: Decided to use Newegg for prices

Average Processor: $171 (Low of 139)
OS: $99
Video Card: $233 (Low of 159)
Sound Card: $60 (Low of $39)
Case: $78 (Low of 35)

That's over $700 right there on average. So yeah, I'm calling BS.

Still 160$ [http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814161389] and being able to run games like this I think is pretty sweet .

A bit better than the 720p, 30fps and med/low settings your PS3 on average can handle don't you agree? Sure three TVs might be a bit overkill for most people, not to mention expensive but the point is that the card can handle it if it needs to. And it can definitely handle anything you play on one screen and you certainty get a lot more out of your 1920x1080 TV when you have a machine that can actually run the games in that resolution.

Furthermore, few if any games really require any fancy 200$ CPU and I don't see why you must spend extra money on a sound-card. Sure those things can enhance the experience even more but it's not really necessary, a ~100$ quad core and the sound-card on the motherboard is often more than enough, especially if you are used to the low standards of console gaming.

Shit I can even go further, for example my 3-4 year old computer with an 3ghz AMD Dual core, 4gb ram and 4870 512mb gpu could still run most new games in 1680x1050 in medium/high settings with a decent 45-60fps. An old computer like that today wouldn't cost more than 200$ but still run the games much better than a 360/ps3. So I don't really understand why people think PC gaming MUST be expensive when it really doesn't have to, unless of course you have to play games like BF3 or The Witcher 2 on three monitors with insane max settings running in 60+fps.

 

[Scyla]

Well, my PS3 plays bluray movies my PC doesn't (yeah I know it's easily fixable)! .

One other thing I noticed was last week when a friend of mine was showing me Demon's Souls. I inserted the game into my PS3 the game needed a patch and an installation which required about 20 minutes until the game started. Afterwards I showed him Chrono Trigger from 1995. I put the cartridge in and switched my SNES on and it worked just like that after 20 seconds I was in the game.

It is amazing how much technology advanced over the last ~20 years!

Don't get me wrong I get the technical issues with loading times and the complexity of modern games that require more man-hours to develop and thus have more bugs because nobody can write software with no errors and these issues have to be taken care of with a patch etc. etc.

But with each generations of consoles I get the impression that it gets worse.

The only negative side to PC-gaming is that the PC gets crappy console conversions that don't utilize the full power and the interface (mouse and keyboard) of a PC. So you get the Skyrim console menus and bad graphics like MW3 plus no options to tweak your game like an Field of View slider for first person games.

The price point of a gaming rig is also not that bad. The reason why consoles seem less pricey is because most people have already a TV. So I payed for my TV about $1000 and for my PS3 additional $350 (actually Euros but I guess the prices match). On the other hand I spend $1500 on my gaming PC with a monitor and input devices. So the difference is not that noticeable. Plus I can do many things with my PC that a TV + console can't (write documents, browse the Internet with ease).

Don't flame me I know that the costs can vary and you can spend much less on a PC and much more on your TV/console combination and vice-versa.

Another thing you have to take into account is the price point for software. They come a bit closer lately but new PC games tend to be a little bit cheaper then new console games (mainly due to licensing fees) and the get a discount faster. So if you buy ten games a year for $60 on consoles vs. $50 on PCs you already saved $100.

I'm not saying that PC gaming is not expensive but the price gap is not as big as it seems on the first glance.

 

[Kiardras]

Consoles have always been less expensive, less tech-knowledge needy pc's. Whats starting to show however, is the distance the 360 and PS3 are now behind - before, consoles managed to keep up with pc's by having new generations every few years. By not doing that, the distance has widened enough to be very noticeable.

If you've got the cash and the tech-knowhow, PC's have always been superior.

 

[Rabidkitten]

Remember when console games could not be patched. When a developer couldn't release a horribly buggy game because there was no way to fix it after release. Guess those days are gone.

That said, I bought a PS3 to play Demons Souls because I loved Dark Souls that much. So all it really comes down to for me, whose got the games.

 

[The Last Nomad]

Consoles are more like very good PCs than "Very Crap PCs".
My Laptop is well regarded on most review sites and by most people looking for a good laptop, but it conjures up the loudest storm you will ever hear if I try to play a game.

My PS3 on the other hand never makes noise no matter what I game I play and its never given me any trouble or overheated unlike my laptop.

Consoles may not be as good as the best PCs, but they're certainly better than than the majority and better value for money.


But all of the above can be refuted, feel free to do so. But the one thing consoles will always have over even teh best PCs is that they are far better for gaming if you have a shit internet connection.
Almost all advantages of PC games require a fairly good internet connection (especially the things Jim points out). Whereas with a console, you don't need to connect to the internet to get the most out of a game. And if you do, you need a pretty good one or its not worth it.
However, some console games are geared towards online activity but they can go suck it for all I care. Single player is what I enjoy and I can still to it.