Jimquisition: Xbox 360 and PS3 Are Just Very Crap PCs

FistsOfTinsel

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Okay, for the single hardcore gamer living in an apartment whose primary interest is gaming, then, yes, I can see how consoles are just "crap PCs". But really, is this anything new?

However, not being able to think of a "single reason" why one would want a console displays a failure of imagination. I've been gaming since I was playing games on Apple IIs in the late 70s; I was a PC/Mac gamer until the XBox came out; since then I've done most of my gaming on consoles. The issue with PC gaming is that, yes, you can ultimately make it do everything a console can do, you just have to do the work figuring how, finding out where to buy the stuff, then setting it up. Here are a few reasons:

==== Better Integration with Home Theatres ====

Consider all the stuff you'd have to do to a PC to get it to:

- be quiet, cool & small enough to fit in with the rest of your AV components & not be a big ugly box in your living room.

- have wireless controllers that also power it on & off wirelessly

- be able to launch your games without using a mouse or keyboard

- know that the games will actually play on your AV setup and be able to handle the "odd" resolution of 720p or consistently use the surround sound setup and not just revert to stereo. It's ironic you use footage for Legends of Grimrock, a game I recently bought & tried to play on my setup; it failed on startup with a directX error - I found (after googling & forum reading) that the problem was that it didn't like my projector as a monitor when running fullscreen - I had to edit the config file manually to get it to launch in windowed mode.

==== Getting online play to work ====

- I have to worry a lot less (or not at all) that my opponents in online games are using hacked clients or various cheats

- I don't need to worry about how to get voice features to work with the games, or getting my friends to use the same voice software as I do; granted, I haven't even looked into this, but the last time I did, there were several different systems out there, none of which were compatible. The point it, like all of this, it takes some effort.

- There are numerous apps that run on Android and iOS that will tell me who is online in my friends list, what they're playing & other notifications.

- Portability: I can take game disks over to a friend's house with the same system and I know the game will be playable; I can log in with my Live account on their machine, and now I have access to all my XBLA games.

==== Cost ====

- Consoles cost less to get the same experience that everyone else is having for that game

- I almost always end up playing games months or years after they launch, so I can get games cheaply on either platform, either from sales (PC) or discounts or buying used games (consoles). I haven't paid more than $20 for a game in years.

=============

Like I said, all of these things can be achieved if you want to take the effort, but it takes effort. To get all this from a console, I buy the console, plug in the wires, and I'm done. Patches are all automatically applied when they come out - I don't depend on the different mechanisms different publishers will choose to use. Granted, if all I ever did was play Steam games, I'd have a console-like experience, minus the compatibility guarantees.

For hardcore hobbiests, sure, of course you need a PC. But everyone else wants an appliance.
 

Redingold

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Mar 28, 2009
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gphjr14 said:
If it wasn't for the cost of constantly upgrading the hardware I'd be more inclined to use my PC for gaming.
If you have to upgrade constantly, you're doing it wrong. I bought my PC for under £400 over 2 years ago and it still plays any game that I put on it at an adequate level of performance. The only part I've had to replace is the PSU, which broke.
 

Vausch

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meganmeave said:
Look, I enjoy PC gaming from time to time, but to say you can't think of anything that makes consoles better than PCs in any way? How about the fact that when I install a $50 game on my PC, it more often then not requires me to spend 1-3 hours getting the damn thing to run on my stupid PC because whatever they used doesn't conform to my sound/video/processor of choice.

Because of the boring conformity, at least I know my games will be compatible with my 360 or PS3. And yes, I love mods, but I can at least see this as being a benefit to boring old console gaming.
Always compatible? Didn't Skyrim take weeks to actually work on the PS3? TF2 took god knows how long and I'm pretty sure it still doesn't play right or just got abandoned, Amy (360 game, I'm cheating I know) was about as poorly optimised as you can get, when I played Web of Shadows the game stalled and crashed at least 10 times when I was swinging through the city with no battle. Though I will give you that often times a PC game feels like a shitty port of a console game if it came out first on the console.

thanatos388 said:
Um...pcs are expensive and require upgrades to the pc itself to play new games. They are still a bigger hassle. That outweighs anything a pc can do as most gamers wont spend 15000 dollars to have higher definition graphics that add fuck all to the game itself.
An initial investment of 700 to 900 to play any game on the market at high graphical setting plus you have the ability to use it for thousands of other applications, then when an upgrade is needed sell the old part and get a new one thus making most upgrades less than $70. I've only had to upgrade my PC once to handle bigger games and that was in the end a $30 upgrade after I sold my old video card. Plus the fact that every game tends to be $10 cheaper from the word go and has much bigger steam discounts tends to help even out the overall cost of the game aspect of it.
 

Vausch

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Diegolomac said:
Well, in... erm... "developing" countries like Brazil it's impossible to have quality pc gaming because a good pc here costs almost 4 months salary for the average person. A console costs a bit less than one month so it's a lot more acessible, even though it's still freaking expensive.
If this person works for minimum wage 15 hours a week, yes they would take 4 months to save up enough to buy a good PC.
 

NightHawk21

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Terminate421 said:
Emergent System said:
The only reason I even own any consoles is because of exclusives.

SonOfVoorhees said:
PC gamers care more about graphics and physics than the actual game....these things are not important. Making the graphics better with a mod dont make the game better. The game is what it is, the story etc can not be changed. Each to their own i guess. Just buy the games you love to play and you will be fine.
'Cuz games like minecraft just blow everything else out of the water when it comes to pure graphical orgasmictude.
First, He wasn't just talking about Graphics. Second, Minecraft is on Xbox too (YES I KNOW ITS NOT PC'D BUT AT LEAST ITS THERE)

There are times where I just like to sit down and enjoy the base game that the industry gave us. Consoles allow that option. PC's allow you to tweak it.

Even better, did anyone even think of MASS MARKET APPEAL?!? How would you like to see a commercial for say....Dead Space: Terrifying Nightmare Version and think "Oh wow, this will look fun on my xbox!" Then you find out that its available for PC only. Fair enough, you get it and find out your computer cannot handle the game since you have the same PC you've had since 2010. So now you bought a game you cannot use unless you spend more money to UPGRADE the PC.

Consoles allow flexibility. They allow the games that you buy to age well (Not graphically but in use). I still have my old N64 and sit down to enjoy Starfox 64 on there, I turn it on and there I am doing a barrel roll in less than 30 seconds.
I think you need to calm down bro. He only mentioned graphics and physics (and graphics is the main part of that since you don't really see a lot of mods dealing with physics and he goes on to talk about graphics mods). But let's look at your post.

Consoles and PCs both allow you to play the vanilla game, with the only difference being that PCs will later allow you to tweak it, so both allow you the option to play the game as the industry gave it. Mind you in current times, there is a good chance that the game the industry gave you is unfinished or broken in some way and must be tweaked continuously over the coming weeks and months. Tweaks that are done by the industry while you sit and wait. PCs have the other advantage here in that you can usually bypass these broken parts.

Unless you bought your PC for $200 bucks in a back alley, I'm willing to bet you can play the new Dead Space. My laptop is about that old and cost me $400 and it plays everything at console quality or a little higher.

PCs allow more flexibility (in fact I was sort of surprised to see flexibility as a point in favour of consoles). There are emulators for just about every game that allow you to play whatever you want in gaming history on your current machine. In fact I would argue that your point makes no sense since it essentially translates into "If you buy an older machine you can play older games" (which to me is about as completely opposite to flexibility as you can get). By that logic if I plug in an old computer I could be playing some old pc game. The only difference being that I can play that old pc game from my current pc and I can save plugging in old obsolete tech. The direct comparison for that would be if you're 360 or Wii had access to every N64 game for free.
 

matell

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In my personal opinion (I.E. not necessarily true), consoles have ONLY one advantage over the PC: the exclusive titles.
Really, in all respects a PC is way more versatile, you can alt-tab to search for a game guide instantly, you have tons more techincal options for a game etc. Ironically, I don't use mods often, or care about the graphics too much, but it is good that the option to choose is there.
Regarding the "it costs too much" argument, I can tell you, you dont have to spend 1000$ to get the best rig, that's a common misconception. I bought my PC around 5 years ago, and it cost me ~350$, for a medium-high configuration. I have since made NO other upgrades (except for the OS), and 95% of the games I try to play run at medium settings with no problems, which makes me think I won't buy another one for at least 2 more years.
One other great advantage is the fact that, with a bit of effort, you can play ANY of the old games. Slap an emulator on, and you're set. Dungeon keeper, Saboteur 2 (the old one), Close Combat, Syndicate etc.
And Steam and GoG are awesome.
 

portal_cat

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I know this sounds strange but I multi-task. Playing a game on the PC I can only do that but with an Xbox I can write or chat with friends on the PC while playing a game.

The other thing is I've had some bad luck with PC games. Which was that it would look like it could run on my computer so I buy it then it turned out I could not, that the graphics card was not right or that the computer was not fast enough. while on the Xbox I know it's going the run without question. PC games are great, so long has you have the right hardware.
 

LazyAza

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Yeah the only reason I've been playing console games past few years is the handful of exclusives and the simple fact not all my friends own the same platforms. Besides that their really is no reason to value them over a good gaming pc anymore.

Also as someone whose been building pcs for over a decade the old "its too hard" or "its too expensive" arguments really are even more absurd now than ever before. I mean ffs Windows 7 practically installs itself and you'd have to be a neanderthal to not know a green plug goes in a green plug hole or a graphics card goes in the only damn slot on the motherboard it can fit in. You barely need junior high levels of technical understanding to build and run a pc these days.
 

cornmancer

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him over there said:
cornmancer said:
UsefulPlayer 1 said:
Sure that's all true but to implement all those advantages you still have to be some sort of nerd to get it going. Consoles are still the easiest way to go. Give a ten year old all the necessary equipment to achieve what you described on the PC and they wouldn't know where to start. I don't know how to hook up my PC to a TV, connect a controller to a PC, or handle all the computer specs stuff. All that is another barrier.

I don't know what's it like on the PS3, but besides online passes, the Xbox 360 is still very straight forward buy the game and you play when you get home. Yes, mods are the holy grail, but navigating the computer system is still way harder than an Xbox.

Xbox has a simpler set up and attract more of the general population. Sure PC is a step up, but you would have to level up yourself to get there.

PCs are great, but there is a reason why all my friends have Xbox Live. Like Weed is Xbox 360 and Cocaine is PC. You start with Weed first and graduate if you are really trying to reach the clouds.
To hook a PC up to the TV you put one end of the HDMI cord in the computer, and the other into the PC.
To hook a controller up to the PC, you put one end of the charger cord in the USB port on your computer, and one in the controller.
It isn't as cut and dry as you think for controllers. Xbox yes because of windows but to hook up my ps3 controller I had to download 2 different softwares and edit them.
PS3 controllers is a bit trickier, but I use mine to play Spelunky and much more all the time using http://www.motioninjoy.com/ Just load it up go over to driver manager and load the driver. That cut and dry.
I can't get the analog sticks to work, but I haven't needed to thus far. If I find a game that I really really really need them for, I'll just grab an Xbox controller and plug that in.
 

Elyxard

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That's what it's come down to for me as well. Consoles no longer make sense anymore. The only reason I ever turn on the PS3 anymore is when it's a game exclusive to it or if the PC port is shoddy; that's not a good enough reason.

I bought a PC a few years back with a modest video card, and it still runs absolutely everything just fine. That wasn't always the case with computer upgrades, but we've reached a point where those upgrades are much less necessary with technology hitting some barriers here and there.

It's just hard to get excited for the next generation of consoles. Every bullet point about them seems to only benefit themselves or the publishers, not the consumers. That's what I love about PC's; there's no overarching, dominant force telling you how you can or cannot use the system you payed money for.
 

GundamSentinel

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Aug 23, 2009
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While I can think of several reasons why a Playstation is the better choice for me (console-exclusive games is a major one), I really must agree with Jim here. The amount of patching and updating required for recent console games can be just embarrasing, while my mid-range laptop runs everything I throw at it without much complaining.
 

Jutaris

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Dec 9, 2011
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This. All of This.

Also, consoles are a ton easier to use for children, put in disc (or pick XBLA/PSN game) and done. All you need to do is turn on a tv and a controller and you're set to go for games, netflix, whatever.

Finally, a lot of people seem to be saying that a gaming rig isn't that expensive comparatively. I call BS. Show me a gaming rig capable of playing every AAA release for 5-8 years that I can buy for $300 without ever needing an upgraded part and I'll concede that I've been wrong.

P.S:
RockBand =D
 

Lord_Gremlin

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I blame Microsoft first and Sony second for allowing games that shouldn't be allowed console release at all. Look at Skyrim on PS3 for example. What's the point of the whole certification if my damn old PC (a PC of a console gamer, Radeon 3400 series, unremarkable dual-core CPU) can run Skyrim and it looks same as on PS3 AND don't have such gamebreaking issues.
It really is about quality control. You don't meet standards - you MUST be denied certification. Even if you're Activision or EA.
I do like PS3 online - generally more mature audience then PC/360 (well, not as mature as I'd wanted but still), but then again on PC one can have personal dedicated servers...
Could. Back when new games had them.
Speaking of next gen - I don't expect much from MS - they clearly trying to get into Nintendo shoes with Kinect and casual games - I do hope that Sony finally gets their certification right.
A bit of info: minimum FPS in a PS3 game that gets it certified for release is 20 FPS. It was so since 2007. What kind of walrus came up with that? 20 FPS is acceptable?
 

XDravond

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Mar 30, 2011
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FistsOfTinsel said:
Okay, for the single hardcore gamer living in an apartment whose primary interest is gaming, then, yes, I can see how consoles are just "crap PCs". But really, is this anything new?

However, not being able to think of a "single reason" why one would want a console displays a failure of imagination. I've been gaming since I was playing games on Apple IIs in the late 70s; I was a PC/Mac gamer until the XBox came out; since then I've done most of my gaming on consoles. The issue with PC gaming is that, yes, you can ultimately make it do everything a console can do, you just have to do the work figuring how, finding out where to buy the stuff, then setting it up. Here are a few reasons:

==== Better Integration with Home Theatres ====

Consider all the stuff you'd have to do to a PC to get it to:

- be quiet, cool & small enough to fit in with the rest of your AV components & not be a big ugly box in your living room.

- have wireless controllers that also power it on & off wirelessly

- be able to launch your games without using a mouse or keyboard

- know that the games will actually play on your AV setup and be able to handle the "odd" resolution of 720p or consistently use the surround sound setup and not just revert to stereo. It's ironic you use footage for Legends of Grimrock, a game I recently bought & tried to play on my setup; it failed on startup with a directX error - I found (after googling & forum reading) that the problem was that it didn't like my projector as a monitor when running fullscreen - I had to edit the config file manually to get it to launch in windowed mode.

==== Getting online play to work ====

- I have to worry a lot less (or not at all) that my opponents in online games are using hacked clients or various cheats

- I don't need to worry about how to get voice features to work with the games, or getting my friends to use the same voice software as I do; granted, I haven't even looked into this, but the last time I did, there were several different systems out there, none of which were compatible. The point it, like all of this, it takes some effort.

- There are numerous apps that run on Android and iOS that will tell me who is online in my friends list, what they're playing & other notifications.

- Portability: I can take game disks over to a friend's house with the same system and I know the game will be playable; I can log in with my Live account on their machine, and now I have access to all my XBLA games.

==== Cost ====

- Consoles cost less to get the same experience that everyone else is having for that game

- I almost always end up playing games months or years after they launch, so I can get games cheaply on either platform, either from sales (PC) or discounts or buying used games (consoles). I haven't paid more than $20 for a game in years.

=============

Like I said, all of these things can be achieved if you want to take the effort, but it takes effort. To get all this from a console, I buy the console, plug in the wires, and I'm done. Patches are all automatically applied when they come out - I don't depend on the different mechanisms different publishers will choose to use. Granted, if all I ever did was play Steam games, I'd have a console-like experience, minus the compatibility guarantees.

For hardcore hobbiests, sure, of course you need a PC. But everyone else wants an appliance.
A/V: Plug in in my laptop with HDMI quiet no weird problems and A/V worked out of the box (kinda lucky shot here though...) (right res, video, sound etc no problems..)
Online: only thing that screw up and thats my router AP that would I can guarantee get the same stops on a console...
portability... ehm yea laptop... play whilst traveling...
Cheats always exists and consoles might not have them but I kinda doubt it...
Voice is either mumble or integrated in to the game...
who need numerous apps? Steam app, Origin is said to be coming...
Cost, yes if I bought a console now but the orignial PS3/Xbox 360 was around $600, my laptop (plays BF3 on medium 30+fps on 64p MP maps..) cost around $700 +2y old... I can get free (legal) games on my PC, some even good, get them cheaper see Steam Sales...

But then again I've been lucky with my setup.
And I wouldn't mind a 360/PS3 but I'm not sure for what I would use them, sure play games but If I want to find a better place I only need somwhere to sit and perhaps a power outlet...

Plus purely out of a technical point of view consoles is a kind of PCs... CPU+GPU+RAM+HDD.... uhm yea "PC"... (not the other way around as someone previously stated... consoles==a kind of PCs..)

Now I'm gonna go and find me some popcorn and have some fun... Thank you Jim!
 

Simonoly

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Oct 17, 2011
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geier said:
Thanks Jim, at last someone says what i think for years.

But, all the truth you told is worth nothing. Consoles will allways outsell Gaming PC's, because of the "Apple-problem".

Apple-Problem:
People who are to stupid to use a real PC use Apple products.
Because the gated system, without all the choices, possabilitys and needed knowledge are the playground of people who have no idea how to operate a IT product.
Wait. So people are using Apple products because they are too stupid to use PCs? You can't really think that, right?
 

exobook

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Sep 28, 2011
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Sorry to side step the PC vs console war but does anyone know what that live action battelstar/halo space opera thing at the end was?, it looked rather interesting.
 

JoeyMousepadd

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Nov 18, 2009
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I would like to dispel another myth about the cost of owning a gaming rig.

Sure a modest gaming PC will cost you 700 to 800 USD, sure, you can buy a PS3 for 250-300 or so, but... since you are a human being and you live on the planet Earth in the year 2012, YOU STILL NEED A COMPUTER!

How much does it cost to bump a modest family PC up to a moderate gaming PC? Probably about 200-300 bucks.