Journey Creator: Games Aren't Good Enough for Adults

Adam Jensen_v1legacy

I never asked for this
Sep 8, 2011
6,651
0
0
Games are entertainment. Adults can be entertained without the intellectual stimuli. And they usually are. Most adults have jobs. They don't have time to play games that will teach them something relevant about life. They want to relax and enjoy a mindless game after spending 8 hours at the office. I think young audience is better suited for intellectually stimulating games. You just need to find a way to advertize those kind of games.
 

ThunderCavalier

New member
Nov 21, 2009
1,475
0
0
Richardplex said:
Making someone cry because the game made them kill someone who the game made them fall in love with because the story is a dick isn't relevant to real life either. Sure you made me invested emotionally in the story and the characters, but it doesn't teach me anything. I don't appreciate people more, I don't feel bad for people in real life, and killing people close to me hopefully won't be relevant to life either. I like his conclusion, but I think his reasoning isn't sound.
NinjaDeathSlap said:
Altogether now...

uuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuurrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrgggggggggggghhhhhh *facepalm

Credit where credit is due, Journey was awesome. But someone really needs to go around the indie developer crowd with a pin and start deflating some heads. Arguably, people like this, who think that games have to follow their specific example before they can have any kind of emotional and intellectual merit are holding back the potential of what games can be more than the suits at EA and Activision ever will.
Both of these. Definitely.

I think we're missing a bit of a point here, people. At the end of the day, we enjoy games, movies, novels, etc. not because of their artistic quality or because of their ingenuity or innovation... but because of how much we enjoy it. I think our cynicism and the sudden Indie revolution has clouded our vision on this.

I do not play a game every time to get some sort of revelation of life that'll make me a better person, nor do I watch a movie thinking that it'll be giving a speech as invigorating and enlightening as Citizen Kane. Yes, small-budget games coming out of nowhere and doing something 'new' and 'unique' are great, but some of these creators, such as Phil Fish's absolutely brilliant comments regarding the games an ocean away [http://kotaku.com/5891178/when-you-say-japanese-games-just-suck] really need to stop for a second and, imo, STFU.

Yes, you're brilliant designers that brought something new and innovative, and the gaming community as a whole is better for your contributions. That doesn't give you a pedestal to proclaim your godhood or blast some other designers, because, in the end, they're making games. FUN games. I may decry the repetitiveness of games like CoD or the cheap tactics done by developers like on-disk DLC, but I enjoy the product in the end, so I really have no right to claim, now do I?

If the game is FUN, then I think we can agree that it's a success. I don't go into every game thinking that it should be a Silent Hill 2, and I think the more pretentious of the gaming community need to realize that.
 

Iron Criterion

New member
Feb 4, 2009
1,271
0
0
Way to generalise, Mr Chen.

The personally see no difference between an intellectually stimulating H.P. Lovecraft book describing usual landscapes and terrifying creatures, and actually being to explore a place like that in games such as Skyrim.
 

Fappy

\[T]/
Jan 4, 2010
12,010
0
41
Country
United States
Zhukov said:
Lastly, adults are perfectly capable of indulging in some good ol' dumb fun every now and again. Yes, it's a shame that that is just about all gaming is capable of delivering, but there's nothing inherently wrong with it.
True enough, most adults only have enough time to enjoy some dumb fun. Video games are supposed to offer an escape from real-life responsibilities after all.
 

Ken Sapp

Cat Herder
Apr 1, 2010
510
0
0
Who is Jenova Chen to tell anyone else what they do or do not enjoy? Personally I go to games to temporarily escape the ho-hum everyday grind, not to be reminded of it.
 

geizr

New member
Oct 9, 2008
850
0
0
It's not so much relevance to real-life as it is having more nuance and sophistication than trite clichés and sophomoric humor. Adults look for more depth and multi-faceted qualities in order to be stimulated, not just ad nauseum repetition. At the same time, all this nuance and sophistication has to be packaged and paced to fit into the adult's schedule. While we may be willing to play a long game, one that will keep us occupied for weeks to months, the game cannot require singular 4+ hour sessions in order to make progress. At the same time, during that entire weeks to months play time, the game cannot use typical time-lengthening tricks, recycling of content, and repetition of action to give the illusion of a long game. Adults see right through that sort of stuff and become completely dissatisfied. Kids love repetition because their minds are built to learn by near endless repetition. However, the adult mind "gets it" after just 2-3 iterations and is ready to move on after that. Asking the adult to perform anymore repetitions than that, without setting up some meaningful purpose or goal where the adult can logically understand the need for the repetitions, will lead to tedium, boredom, and then abandonment.

Making a game for an adult requires more sophistication and refinement of the art. When I say art, here, I don't mean the fine visual details or obtuse abstracted scenery. I'm talking about the construction of the game itself. The pacing of the content, the fluidity and fit of the controls. I'm also talking about the themes, the dialog, the situations and issues, the character design. Literally everyone in and about the game has to work as a seamless whole that evokes its own unique identity. That is the art of games. It's the craftsmanship that is put into the holistic construction of the game.

Most of the games that have been served as examples of games as art are really just pretentious pretenders that fail to understand the true art of game design. Instead, they substitute gauche abstract visuals, nebulous stories, and reckless pacing as being artistic (when it's really all just a mess, much like most of the modern abstract art). They fail to understand that the art of the game exists on the holistic level in the totality of the game's construction and its interaction with the player, not in the individual details. Also, being obtuse and difficult to comprehend is not necessarily artistic, in any medium; it's usually more indicative that the "artist" really just had no clue what he was trying to do or how to do it.

Getting back to the main point, adults require games that stimulate on an intellectual and spiritual level (do not construe this as meaning the game has to be religious or have religious themes; though there is no restriction against such to achieve this end). They require games that get to the point of what they want to say and don't waste time mucking about in needless time-extension simply to give the illusion of copious content (an adult can easily see when a 60 hour games is really only 30 minutes of actual content with 59 hours and 30 minutes of filler and grind). Adults want games that are refined and sophisticated, not clichéd and childish. This is not to say adults don't like occasionally engaging that sort of stuff, but we become fatigued when that is the only thing available. Real-life relevance is not necessary for the adult to be engaged in a game (adults very much like fantasies, too), however, at the same time, there is no restriction to this. Don't make the mistake of thinking there is a single "magic-bullet" way of making a game that appeals to adults (in fact, this mistaken "magic-bullet" thinking is what is wrong with a lot of "solutions" to various issues, but that's a different rant).
 

FoolKiller

New member
Feb 8, 2008
2,409
0
0
Revolutionaryloser said:
FoolKiller said:
Does he understand what the word game means?

Does he know what playing is?
Games are defined by being entertaining methods of training.
That is a very selective definition of the purpose of a game. If he thinks that that is what it should be, he's just plain wrong.

game as defined by the free dictionary is...

An activity providing entertainment or amusement; a pastime

I have no problem understanding what he is trying to say or imply. It's just that he's plain wrong. Some games may provide training as they do in elementary school, but that is not the principal goal of a game. The entertainment is. And while I commend him for aspiring to make a game that goes beyond mere entertainment, I cannot agree with him that playing video games that are out there which have no real life relevance are a waste of my time.

It's the equivalent of me saying that reading a novel is a waste and isn't adult oriented because it's fiction.
 

R0cklobster

New member
Sep 1, 2008
106
0
0
Wow, what's with all the hate people are giving this guy? I think he definitely has a point. It's not like he said that games that don't engage the viewer on a more meaningful level are worthless, only that it's one aspect of video games that could be used a heck of a lot more effectively given the target audience. What's all that wrong with pushing the boundaries?
 

LilithSlave

New member
Sep 1, 2011
2,462
0
0
Well, being able to use a sniper rifle isn't useless. But it is only useful to a very small section of human experience.

I think the criticism comes close, but somewhat misses the mark. It isn't that most games aren't useful enough, it's that they aren't relatable, except outside of the niche of people with a massive emotional need to "machismo" on some level.

There's nothing wrong with games trying to delve into political, philosophical, religious, romantic, or other matters. And the fact that people think that is a problem, is kind of sad. Yes, pleasure is fine. But people take pleasure out of more than one thing, and that is also fine. And I think the gaming industry does deserve more.