JRPG dudes look feminine because asian dudes look (somewhat) feminine

[Susan Arendt]

I'll complain about it all I want. It's not aesethically pleasing to play as a supposed male who looks more like a female than a male.

Then don't. Surely there are plenty of other games that you can play that won't bother you so.

 

[Joeshie]

I'll complain about it all I want. It's not aesethically pleasing to play as a supposed male who looks more like a female than a male.

Then don't. Surely there are plenty of other games that you can play that won't bother you so.

Well, yeah I do play other games. That doesn't mean I can't still complain about it.

 

[Jamash]

Having steering wheels on the right side of the car makes perfect sense. It because we drive on the left, which goes back to the times before cars when people on horseback always rode on the left hand side of the road because the majority of people are right handed so it's easier to wield a lance or sword or whatever against someone if you're on the left side of the road.

Like the Asian idea of male beauty, it's a long established tradition. What's the reasoning behind driving on the right hand side of the road? Are the majority of American's left handed or like a lot of things, is it just to be different and to break away from tradition.

 

[tobyornottoby]

I'll complain about it all I want. It's not aesethically pleasing to play as a supposed male who looks more like a female than a male.

Sure The funny thing is, I have the opposite (as an asian). Just wondering how much that is cultural... or maybe just me

 

[DeadlyFred]

Well, to wit... its not that "a lot of Japanese men look like women" its that "Japanese pop music is a market dominated by men who look like women because the girls like it". Thus the convention is not so much a cultural statement as it is fanservice to all the gals who love their angsty and flamboyantly-dressed leading men. Though the same really can be said for this country as well except instead of androgynous man-boys our women love the shady, rough-around-the edges badboy types; long hair and goatee optional. Take to note as well that 90% of female sidekicks follow the same sort of type-casting as well, which is why most end up being nothing but superficial eyecandy thrown on like so many pounds of self-adhesive gelatinous tits.

 

[Phrobaby]

SteinFaust: Women weren't originally banned from kabuki...and kabuki wasn't originally "kabuki", like all art forms, it evolved over time. During the shogunate and their semi-Confucian, totalitarian rule, there was a bit of an up-shift in the blue laws (laws regarding morality). Women were banned from the stage because it was licentious. There's probably a bit of the whole Buddhist "women are evil and they suck" attitude present as well, whereby the male actors who played female roles were considered the epitome of femininity and, thus, women were expected to follow their example.

As to girly men in Japan (I can't speak on the rest of Asia), you're projecting one extremely culturally specific view on another significantly different culture. Let's go back a thousand years: the "great" men of Europe were probably savages killing people and taking over land (probably in the name of God). In the Heian aristocracy, however, even the guards captains weren't particularly well versed in martial exploits (with the notable exception of archery), but were instead expected to be poets and statesmen. The Kokinshu spirit is still evident today in such cultural practices as hanami (cherry blossom viewing).

So...you call it girly men, but I think a better word would be refined...or, they are over flowing with miyabi (courtly elegance).

Though I should also point out that there a plenty of Japanese men you probably shouldn't call girly men. Because they will beat the shit out of you and then go have a beer. For fun.

 

[Panayjon]

I'm not really offended per say but what the hell kind of racist tripe is this? I can even point to the racist part:

Anyways, studies show that asian dudes have less testosterone in their blood than western guys, so it's all just... the way it is

What studies? What scientific endeavor was undergone to prove or disprove this theory? What possible credible source could you offer? Even supposing it were true, wouldn't big and burly being the rarity then become the standard of handsome? Things easily obtained are not easily desired.

Even forgetting that supposed truth, there does exist the term "Pretty Boy" in western culture. A "refined" gentleman really isn't any further from the mark. Additionally, there's that bit about J-pop/rock bands. Caucasian groups... hmmmm... N-Sync and Backstreet Boys. Oooh, one of them is "bad" because he has facial hair. Remember, what you see in JRPGs and indeed any pop culture... is only a very very shallow facet of an entire people. The reason you see the whole "Andro" thing so often in such games as Kingdom Hearts, Final Fantasy, ect. is because its what sells and is easily identifiable.

Additionally, when you're trying to make a point, whatever that point might be... don't lob too many generalizations into the argument. Sure as hell not an entire fucking ethnicity.

 

[PedroSteckecilo]

Pretty Boys in JRPG's is the equivalent of casting Brad Pitt in a movie, it doesn't matter whom the intebded audience is, Brad Pitt is there to bring in the ladies (that and he's a pretty awesome actor, but we're talking about apperances here).

 

[Ixus Illwrath]

This thread teems with racist overtones...

Methinks it's heading for a collision with the lock-mobile

 

[TheKbob]

I really don't mind it unless it's Magna Carta extreme. Then I'm kind of like... uh, yah... set the game down and pick up 2 copies of Gears of War just in case someone saw me looking at it (MC).

XD

 

[Hatman Jam]

Personally, I don't hate the typical JRPG guy for looking girly, but because having those characters look girly has become a sort of standard that shouldn't have been established in the first place. It's not interesting and unique character design, it's boring and simply cannon fodder for fanfictions and bad fanart that would no doubt showcase an awkward situation like timid feminine boy was kissed by stereotypical macho male character as the punchline.

Shouldn't have been established in the first place? How delightfully narrowminded of you. I assure you, the character design is no more "boring" than the Western manly ideal of huge biceps and square jaw, or female characters with tiny waists and breasts so large it's a wonder the poor girls' spines don't crack.

In other words, every culture has their own ideals of beauty or attractiveness. If you don't like the Asian aesthetic, that's fine, just don't play those games.

Hmmm you've certainly got me there about the character design. But the thing is, I don't play games for the characters alone, I play it because it's fun. Most Final Fantasy games feature feminine men and under dressed women, while most shooters feature big jawed macho men or heavily clad armored soldiers, but most in both game genres can still deliver an equally entertaining experience.

Is it really too much to ask for the guy to look like a guy?

 

[laikenf]

SteinFaust: Women weren't originally banned from kabuki...and kabuki wasn't originally "kabuki", like all art forms, it evolved over time. During the shogunate and their semi-Confucian, totalitarian rule, there was a bit of an up-shift in the blue laws (laws regarding morality). Women were banned from the stage because it was licentious. There's probably a bit of the whole Buddhist "women are evil and they suck" attitude present as well, whereby the male actors who played female roles were considered the epitome of femininity and, thus, women were expected to follow their example.

As to girly men in Japan (I can't speak on the rest of Asia), you're projecting one extremely culturally specific view on another significantly different culture. Let's go back a thousand years: the "great" men of Europe were probably savages killing people and taking over land (probably in the name of God). In the Heian aristocracy, however, even the guards captains weren't particularly well versed in martial exploits (with the notable exception of archery), but were instead expected to be poets and statesmen. The Kokinshu spirit is still evident today in such cultural practices as hanami (cherry blossom viewing).

So...you call it girly men, but I think a better word would be refined...or, they are over flowing with miyabi (courtly elegance).

Though I should also point out that there a plenty of Japanese men you probably shouldn't call girly men. Because they will beat the shit out of you and then go have a beer. For fun.

Hahaha, I have a japanese friend who I used to take boxing lessons with. I eventually didn't do to well at boxing (quit after a year and a half) but my friend was a fucking shredder, try calling him a girly man, and good luck. Also, japanese men are as "macho" as any western man (like most asian societies); I don't think video games are an accurate glimpse of any given culture.

 

[DeadlyFred]

Its honestly more the dress code that bothers me, personally. Broody effeminate men are all well and fine but do they all have to look like they share wardrobe with a blind circus troupe? Even your average visual kei band member is more coordinated than these guys! What's his name... Tidus? (the one from FFX) That has got to be the most god-awful ensemble I have ever bloody seen. It's not even a matter of properly representing battle-ready combat garb, just dress them in something which doesn't look like the physical manifestation of an epileptic fit.

 

[PedroSteckecilo]

I really don't mind it unless it's Magna Carta extreme. Then I'm kind of like... uh, yah... set the game down and pick up 2 copies of Gears of War just in case someone saw me looking at it (MC).

XD

I don't think anyone REALLY wants MC extreme, that one REALLY through me for a loop. I was like

"Hey, cool, a game with a female lead for once, cool. Wait, that's a guy? That is just wrong."

 

[tendo82]

Are you sure? I had heard Kabuki was entirely male, even heard that secret trysts with the more andro actors was a common occurrence.

yeah. old theatre was entirely male, as females were banned from performing (f*ck if i know why)

Females were the original Kabuki performers, however the troupes were also available as prostitutes, leading the shogunate to ban female performers, thus the all male casts of Kabuki today.

Also, standards of beauty and the roles males and females play in society are two entirely different things. Despite the popularity of more effeminate looking males, Japan is an extremely patriarchal society with sharply defined gender roles for men and women.

 

[xMacx]

TS: Beat Takeshi would like a word with you about your perception of the Japanese male.

and Bolo Yeung said once you're done there, come stop by the mainland and you can test out his testosterone levels.

 

[monodiabloloco]

You're just jealous because Japanese men are, in a whole, more attractive.
Testosterone does not euqal attractive.
Especially Disgusting, repulsive chest hair. Notice how Kratos has none?
...
Sorry if I insulted you, but I have a thing agianst hairy.

Dang... that's harsh.

 

[SeventhSeraph]

You're just jealous because Japanese men are, in a whole, more attractive.
Testosterone does not euqal attractive.
Especially Disgusting, repulsive chest hair. Notice how Kratos has none?
...
Sorry if I insulted you, but I have a thing agianst hairy.

XD I shave my legs, and I'm a 14 year old guy.

Which makes for some odd reactions.

"Sorry I was late. I had to shave.

"You shave? HAHAHAHA!!!"

"Not my face, but yes." (aside from that ugly fuzz, but that's beside the point)

"..."

"MY LEGS AND UNDERARMS YOU PERV!!!"

 

[otterbeans]

It's probably because they're trying to make the female characters appealing to the men, and in the same way, the male characters appealing to the women. FFX is a good example, they really cover the gambit there.

Yuna, cute and elegant
Rikku, cheerful and spunky
Lulu, gothic and boobs

Tidus, typical boyfodder
Wakka, responsible silly doof
Auron, manly and brooding

And Kimarhi for all you furries out there.

So basically, it's about catering to everyone's interests. And in most cases with women, they (or at least I) want something cute and non-threatening. Thus, girly boys.