JRPG dudes look feminine because asian dudes look (somewhat) feminine
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is just it me, or does everyone else hear 'girly-man' and immediately only able to hear arnold schwarzenegger in his arnold voice saying "agh you're such a girly-man" XD
By whose standards? What you think of as being appropriate "guy" appearance might be utterly ridiculous or alien to someone from another culture.Hatman Jam said:
J-POP?! J-POP IS YOUR EXAMPLE?!tobyornottoby post=9.68314.624393 said:
Google some american boy bands or frikin' indian pop, you'll find feminine men as well.
Dang. What pisses ME off about the whole japanese androgynous male is not so much about how he "naturally" looks, but rather that the poor sod is ALWAYS dressed like some fraking fashion model, posing and stuff whenever he's there just standing. Why not just draw an average androgynous looking dude?! A guy with a plain t-shirt, pants, tennis shoes and probably a fancy cell-phone since he's from japan.
I dare ANYONE to show me the manliest men protagonists in jrpgs are not from the 8-bit era, mainly-or manly?-because they couldn't have enough detail to femme them up.
I mean, by the 16-bit era Cecil was already flamin' things up with that paladin hairdo, he hung around a pansie looking bard(though he grew massive balls later on), and that was just the beginning...
Oh, well...
Taking history into account, the japanese DO have a certain surviving trend dating back to feudal times where male beauty was admired right there, along with feminine beauty; and it wasn't unusual for a tough daimio dude to have a pederastic relationship with a boy-toy whom he would look after and make sure would remain educated and such. Kinda like the greek in their time. It was the western values that got firmly instilled in japanese society at the end of WWII(though to be honest some were already there), that led to some kind of condemnation for steamy man-on-man-train-action.
Alas, girly tough guys are as part of japanese culture as big boobed ladies are for the rest of us non japanese.
I dare ANYONE to show me the manliest men protagonists in jrpgs are not from the 8-bit era, mainly-or manly?-because they couldn't have enough detail to femme them up.
I mean, by the 16-bit era Cecil was already flamin' things up with that paladin hairdo, he hung around a pansie looking bard(though he grew massive balls later on), and that was just the beginning...
Oh, well...
Taking history into account, the japanese DO have a certain surviving trend dating back to feudal times where male beauty was admired right there, along with feminine beauty; and it wasn't unusual for a tough daimio dude to have a pederastic relationship with a boy-toy whom he would look after and make sure would remain educated and such. Kinda like the greek in their time. It was the western values that got firmly instilled in japanese society at the end of WWII(though to be honest some were already there), that led to some kind of condemnation for steamy man-on-man-train-action.
Alas, girly tough guys are as part of japanese culture as big boobed ladies are for the rest of us non japanese.
XD I'm actually writing a WoW webcomic (yes, I know, there are too many) although, it's drawn. The thing is I'm normally great with paper, but I'm just gettin' used to my Tablet. But yeah, I just got finished introducing the cast and now I'm doing the first comic as we speak, but ANYWAY to the point.
In response to Bomberman: I draw Kimejo, my mage, as a bishie, but I actually put him in a normal trench-coat-ish thing that I loosely based off the black mageweave robes, my favorite robes. There are actually no other really bishie characters in the comic aside from Vitcor, who I took massive liberties with and drew and emo-cut with purple highlights in it because while he's a really nice good-natured guy, he dresses as an emo. And so, to fit with it, I dress him in a black leather coat that I don't shade to make it look more mysterious and flowin'.
But yeah. I try to make it look like they're semi-dressing the part.
In response to Bomberman: I draw Kimejo, my mage, as a bishie, but I actually put him in a normal trench-coat-ish thing that I loosely based off the black mageweave robes, my favorite robes. There are actually no other really bishie characters in the comic aside from Vitcor, who I took massive liberties with and drew and emo-cut with purple highlights in it because while he's a really nice good-natured guy, he dresses as an emo. And so, to fit with it, I dress him in a black leather coat that I don't shade to make it look more mysterious and flowin'.
But yeah. I try to make it look like they're semi-dressing the part.
The visible biological differences between men and women -- assuming everyone keeps their clothes on, of course -- boil down to facial hair and breasts. Oh, and Adam's apples, too.Joeshie said:
I've spoken to a number of Asian women and many don't have very high regard for their male counterparts. Perhaps having kind, gentle blokes with feminine qualities in videogames is their way for compensating.
To go further, I'd say JRPGs are aimed more at the women's crowd now (or gay) whilst over here RPGs, or gaming in general, is considered dominantely male still. It would make sense to have guys that appeal to the female demographic (and for some reason or rather, the main characters from the Legacy of Kain series just doesn't fill that void).
As for Brits and Japs driving with a different method, that's because they're driving on the right side of the road and you're not!
To go further, I'd say JRPGs are aimed more at the women's crowd now (or gay) whilst over here RPGs, or gaming in general, is considered dominantely male still. It would make sense to have guys that appeal to the female demographic (and for some reason or rather, the main characters from the Legacy of Kain series just doesn't fill that void).
As for Brits and Japs driving with a different method, that's because they're driving on the right side of the road and you're not!
Thats not entirely true, which you also know.Susan Arendt post=9.68314.624931 said:
There's a thing about more muscle mass, broad shoulders, larger frame in general - And that thing that women got hips.
Also stuff about jawline, chin, eyebrowbone, and almost everything about your face.
-- The problem is that the JRPG main male characters have no shoulders/arms, and have faces resembling the female sidekick's very much. In turn the women tend to have no hips, and no breasts (Or both are VASTLY overdone) and such either there is NO contrast, or a very wrong contrast.
"A man isn't more muscular than a women biologically" Yes he is, you should be able to tell a man from a women by simply looking at their frame, which you can't in JRPG.
I'm not asking for a Arnold Schwarzenegger clone, I'm asking for a man that looks like an actual man.
-- One thing is obeying the cultural trends, whatever, but they are OVERDOING it the EXTREME. While the trends might very well say that people must look feminine, it CANNOT remove the biological differences between male and females. BUT IN THE GAMES, YOU ARE ALMOST UNABLE TO TELL A MAN FROM A BY LOOKING AT THEM, HOW DOES THIS MAKE SENSE???
You're right, I was indulging in a bit of exaggeration to make a point. Yes, as a rule, men have more muscle mass than women, have broader shoulders, and unibrows. Ok, maybe not unibrows as a rule, just unibrow tendencies.s0denone said:
That is, adult men do. Take a teenage boy, on the other hand, and you tend to get a skinny, hairless person with a squeaky voice. (Again an exaggeration, but I think you see where I'm going with this.)
Perhaps the issue at hand is that JRPG heroes tend to be boys, not men? It's certainly true that JRPG characters, as a rule, tend towards youth.
There's a point I'd missed completely, and now that you say it, that could very well be the caseSusan Arendt post=9.68314.625004 said:
I don't see how this came to be, though, unless their target audience isn't really manly men, but instead wicked looking teenies, and women. (That may be the case, though)
It doesn't really bother me much. Only thing is that every once in awhile,I find a stupid person saying"That chick is hot!!" and I would then say "Dude,that's a guy" And normally that would follow with said person screaming in embarrassment and myself laughing malevolently.
But I never even set the trap to begin with. it just happens. and it's victims tend to be people who: A.have never seen anime or B.too dense to figure it out before hand.otterbeans post=9.68314.625026 said:
No no no. The boy is a trap. It's the actual term for boys in anime and games that look like girls, and/or are set up as girls only until they are revealed as guys later on.darkmetalfox post=9.68314.625035 said:
4chan, or something. The original trap is, I think his name is Tsukasa, from DotHack.
Yeah, I think that's probably one of the biggest reasons for the effeminate males that take place in JRPGs. JRPGs do occasionally have a very masculine male, they just tend to get relegated to the sidelines while the main character tends to be unusually young. The effeminate men tend to show up as the villians.Susan Arendt post=9.68314.625004 said:
I wish more male characters would be designed like the ones in Final Fantasy XII (excluding Vaan). Characters like Basch and Balthier. Neither of them were Gears of War-esque masculine, but they had enough masculinity about them that you could plainly see that they were in fact men.
That's certainly part of it as well. Youth is definitely fetishized in Japan for a number of reasons.Susan Arendt post=9.68314.625004 said:
Another thing to keep in mind is the obsession Japanese have with the West. If you look at Ukiyoe woodblock prints, created before the West began to heavily influence Japan, the characters are highly stylized but distinctly Asian in their physical features, and mature looking.