Judge Awards Sony With Visitor IDs of PS3 Hacker's Website

[Buizel91]

Well...they had it coming...

Now I'm going to sit back and laugh *gets Pepsi, Popcorn, and Oreo's*...

Who's with me?

I'll bring chips and salsa, is that cool?

Sure is ^_^

 

[jp201]

I don't really blame sony for this at all. You take whatever advantage you can in a case and if a judge grants them that right then why would they say no thanks?

Blame the judge for this one for even allowing the subpoena to occur in the first place.

 

[Tanis]

Sony currently plans to use this information only for the previously stated purpose, and not to sue everyone on the planet.


Yeah, like I trust Sony for jack right now.


Treating everyone like criminals may work in other countries but here we have a tradition, at least on paper, of 'Innocent Until Proven Guilty'.

What if Sony decides to do a ban-wave or lawsuit wave with the information they gain?
What's to stop them?

 

[Lunar Templar]

....

....
this kinda makes me wanna get my PS3 and the games a dump em off at game stop for a 3DS an Pokemon White

srsly, this really stupid

 

[JDKJ]

So when are they going to sue the Escapists ISP so they can find out who commented on this comment on the case?

"LOL"

Look me up, Sony!

The thing I don't get is what this research demonstrates. They claim they need it to prove their case against him, but how? His visitors, even if they used his tech for piracy, do not dictate whether or not he broke the law. If we could use that kind of example as evidence, every gun manufacturer would be in jail because their hardware has been used in crimes (regardless of intent). Proving he "distributed jailbreak materials" seems rather flimsy, since jailbreak materials in and of themselves have been found legal.

They want the personal information of people to which he distributed something they contest but even defined withing the context of a legal term? That really does sound like an excuse to get the info for other reasons. Maybe not to sue everyone under the sun, but other reasons.

And the judge agreed? I wonder if he has a specific reason or, if like many people who legislate and preside over technological issues, he has no freaking clue.

There's a perfectly legitimate reason for the information: it goes to proving whether or not Hotz' posting of the information furthered the circumvention of an access control mechanism for the purposes of infringing copyrighted materials, an element of the DMCA that Sony is required to prove in order to prevail. Seeking evidence to prove to your case is always a legitimate need. In fact, it's usually a requirement of prevailing.

 

[naab]

geez people this only being used as EVIDENCE.

And contrary to the Data Protection Act (or any other Non-US Law protecting Privacy), your personal information could be stored by Sony as long as the case is ongoing?

That's a stunning abuse of power.

EDIT: By the way, that's the same California that's trying to ban people using adult games; and they've just granted a right to grab all gamer accounts. Can't see any conflict of interest there at all....

And this is why people think the legal system is a joke in the US

 

[JDKJ]

geez people this only being used as EVIDENCE. Their not even doing anything about the people they have info on (yet). And even if they did, they would be in the right, its their service and they should do the best to protect it from thieves and people ruining games due to hacks.

So you are fine with the judge handing sony all personnel information on anyone who has interacted with a person of interest to them? They want anyone whose seen his youtube videos (probably including his real life friends) and anyone whose seen his twitter feed. what about people who have seen news stories about it and have googled it to get more information?

Sony who is not an unintrested party when it comes to personal information usage; its a major player in the overly draconian RIAA.

It's equivalent to Person A committing a minor crime and the police receiving personal information on anyone who has ever been spotted by CCTV walking past or anywhere near Person A. Except it's much worse than that because they are receiving information on people from other countries who are not subject to their laws. In fact it is down-right illegal according to our (UK) data laws to hand out people's personal information without a very strong cause.

If you want to fully enjoy the protections of the UK's law and never subject yourself to the laws of the United States, I'd suggest that you never log on to a server based in the United States (like Google's or YouTube's or Twitter's). But if you chose to, in effect, come to the United States, then don't complain when you're held subject to the laws of the United States.

 

[Illyasviel]

No. I like my PS3, they may have my info but I don't care, I have done nothing wrong and anyone who is innocent has nothing to worry about

You like your PS3 more than your own freedoms?

It's that kind of immaturity that gives gamers a bad stereotype.

Hi, you must be new to the Internet. Newsflash: Google has long eroded your Internet freedoms. I know this might be hard to believe ( I actually find it harder to believe there are people who aren't aware of this ), but this is simply the way the Internet works, and has worked, for a long, long time.

Read this [http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/7.268922-Judge-Awards-Sony-With-Visitor-IDs-of-PS3-Hackers-Website?page=3#10310772].

Long story short, this court case would be impossible without the initial invasion of your privacy that is happening every single day. An invasion of your privacy entirely made possible, and completely endorsed and sponsored, by every single major player of the Internet. Including Google, Microsoft, Amazon, Facebook, YouTube ( Google owns YouTube ), ad infinitum?

So, what are you more concerned about?

Every major player on the Internet collecting tons and tons of personal information about you, information to never be "expired," "deleted" or "destroyed," because let's face it, you can buy a gigabyte of storage for a quarter, and doing whatever they want with this information, including trading, selling or giving it away.

Or...

Sony, who obviously isn't collecting your personal information every single day because if they were, they wouldn't be asking Google for it, asking, one time, to look into a small portion of your daily lives?

Your concerns, though just and honest, are misplaced. Sony isn't your enemy. The Internet is.

Oh, and by the way, Sony isn't going to use this information to pursue individuals like you, unless you too are part of the TRADE SECRET REVEALING, BACKWARDS ENGINEERING scene. Then, well, being part of the TRADE SECRET REVEALING, BACKWARDS ENGINEERING scene is technically illegal, and they had a valid case against you anyway, no matter how many times you play your stupid game of "your court has neither authority or jurisdiction in this matter." This is all strictly business, and unless you aren't Joe Blow, in the scope of this action, Sony doesn't care about you.

Not gonna bother with your whole 'privacy' comment, since it's pretty much true. (and almost impossible to avoid, given how the internet works)

But Reverse engineering is done all the time, and it used to be specifically allowed by the laws of many countries. (Although depending on how you did it, it could be illegal. - If you have intimate information about how something works through means other than actual reverse engineering of the hardware/software or whatever).

Thank you for actually not focusing on a single tidbit of sensationalist news and addressing the topic as a piece of a wider scheme.

I completely agree, the regulations in regard to reverse engineering and the Internet as a whole, is rubbish and needs to be completely revisited and revised.

I agree consumers should be allowed a certain degree of control over there boxes, but I also find it important that a company's trade secrets be protected. So should a consumer be allowed to install their own operating system on their PS3 or XBox 360? I honestly don't have a problem with that, but whatever is installed shouldn't be given kernel level access. It may not directly interface the hardware, but it may be emulated through a shell. That is the ideal compromise. People get what they want, company trade secrets are preserved. Sure the result won't run as fast or as smoothly as a direct implementation, but I mean, you have what you want, asking for more would be greedy.

 

[JDKJ]

i am confused about this case do we rent or license the console from sony or do we own it because it seems like sony wants to have control of our personal property and that frightens me quite a bit

The software and the firmware in the console is licensed to you for use. You do not own it. Sony does.

 

[008Zulu_v1legacy]

So everyone who has LOL'd at the jailbreak vid are going to be banned from online activities with their PS3s?

All Sony can really do is affect people in America, if they try disconnecting people in other countries for watching a youtube video, then they will sticking their dicks in the proverbial hornet's nest. The American judical system might be in their wallet, but dont count on the rest of the world bending over.

 

[JDKJ]

geez people this only being used as EVIDENCE. Their not even doing anything about the people they have info on (yet). And even if they did, they would be in the right, its their service and they should do the best to protect it from thieves and people ruining games due to hacks.

So you are fine with the judge handing sony all personnel information on anyone who has interacted with a person of interest to them? They want anyone whose seen his youtube videos (probably including his real life friends) and anyone whose seen his twitter feed. what about people who have seen news stories about it and have googled it to get more information?

Sony who is not an unintrested party when it comes to personal information usage; its a major player in the overly draconian RIAA.

It's equivalent to Person A committing a minor crime and the police receiving personal information on anyone who has ever been spotted by CCTV walking past or anywhere near Person A. Except it's much worse than that because they are receiving information on people from other countries who are not subject to their laws. In fact it is down-right illegal according to our (UK) data laws to hand out people's personal information without a very strong cause.

A big law case is a fairly strong cause.
And It depends how bothered you are about personal information. I don't really care if people know who i am or where i live. Mainly because it won't change any part of my life.
Aslong as you don't keep my bank details i do not care

You're sort of ignoring the most important part of his statement: some of the information is on people in other states and other countries. A California judge should not have the jurisdiction to do hand over the information of that many people. In some of the places some of those people live in, that is blatantly illegal.

First off, the judge isn't handing over any information. He can't. He doesn't have the information that's being sought in his actual possession. He's issuing a subpoena empowering Sony to go looking for the information they seek. Secondly, it doesn't matter that you may live in Bumphuque, Egypt. The information is within the jurisdiction of the 50 United States. Any court within those 50 States can issue subpoenas for information in the 50 States.

 

[Something Amyss]

There's a perfectly legitimate reason for the information: it goes to proofing whether or hot the Hotz' posting of the information furthered the circumvention of an access control mechanism for the purposes of infringing copyrighted materials, an element of the DMCA that Sony is required to prove in order to prevail. Seeking evidence to prove to your case is always a legitimate need. In fact, it's usually a requirement of prevailing.

God, I addressed that in that very post. Jailbreaking, which is what they even called it, is not illegal under the DMCA (according to the courts). Proof that he distributed it does not go to the benefit of proving a DMCA violation.

 

[JDKJ]

Oh crap, I think I watched that video a few months ago when I first heard about this guy.

THEY'RE AT THE WIND- *crash*

Hey are you okay man?
I know I accidentally went to his site recently. I was aiming for "geohatz" because I wanted a snazzy and environmentally safe hat, but that tricky "o" slipped in there! Am I next...?! Oh god, I'm freaking out!


Brb, someone's at the door.

*flips his desk over grabs a shotgun and puts on a helmet*

I am safe... They cannot get me...

*restores computer to upright position behind over turned desk*
Oh a knock at the back door....

Haha CHampions train LOSERS COMPLAIN
GG cheaters
Oh this is the best day of my life I will title today
The day cheaters got what was coming to them
hmmm need something a little more flashy.... JUSTICE DAY!!!

Go read something about this. He is not a cheater. He doesn't make cheats. He jail broke his PS3 to restore features Sony removed after he purchased it.

And the part where he then posts that information to the internet for all to see has to do with what? It ain't got nothing to do with restoring features to his console.

 

[Something Amyss]

i am confused about this case do we rent or license the console from sony or do we own it because it seems like sony wants to have control of our personal property and that frightens me quite a bit

The software and the firmware in the console is licensed to you for use. You do not own it. Sony does.

Law>EULA. Also has legal precedent. Sorry.

 

[JDKJ]

Siiiiggghhhhhh.

Hi guys, welcome to the Internet. Seeing that a lot of you are new to the Internet, let me mentor you on some of the workings of this wild digital frontier.

Let's take a step back and stop specifically focusing on Sony getting the courts to subpeona Google or whoever. Let's take a look at the the big picture, if you will. If I were that piece of shit GeoHot, this is exactly the type of news I would want everybody to focus on to garner sympathy. Its a good gameplan really, and while I'm not suggesting the author of this article is under GeoHot's thumb, let's dissect this sensationalist crap.

The very fact that Sony can subpeona Google, Twitter, etc. for information about visitors collected years ago tells us a few important things:

Number one: This information exists.

Number two: Google, Twitter, etc. have been collecting this information. In fact, they've been collecting this information for years. And years. And years. And that they haven't deleted this information, and furthermore, probably have never even considered deleting this information. Regardless of how sensitive this information is or that it could be possibly out of date.

"You're full of shit and a liar" you might be thinking. "Cite your sources you liar!" "You just made that all up!"

Pay attention. I don't need to cite sources. I have taken a statement, disassembled it, and reassembled it in a way that does not abridge its implications. I have only drawn logical conclusions regarding the implications made. This is automatically proof positive.

A lot of you "protect personal freedom at all costs" types getting ready to take your righteousness out of your pants are really chumps if you haven't realized this all. That's right. Every single search query you put through google including that one for "naughty teacher extracurricular lessons" has been saved on a Google hard disk somewhere in this world, locked away, possibly to used for further reference at an undisclosed time in the future.

You might argue that "Google is my friend." "They wouldn't do anything with all that personal information they've collected about me that I wouldn't want them to do." Well, you're wrong. Your tiny, petty, insignificant feelings are worth peanuts compared to the multi-billion revenue this industry generates every single year. And even if Google won't do it, Twitter will. So will Amazon. And FaceTube ( Top Gear reference ). Pretty much everybody really.

Furthermore, do you think Google cares about these physical lines you've drawn in the sand when you're on the Internet? Not really they don't.

It was only a matter of time before somebody wizened up and decided to use the court system to get at all this information. And in fact, Sony isn't the first.

So if you really are a privacy advocate, Sony is hardly your enemy. Google is. The Internet is. They were the ones who made this court case possible, GeoHot was only the catalyst and Sony the actor. Even if you're like me and block all Google analytics scripts and so on and so forth, every week, a new book about who you are and what you are doing is being written, and published, without your consent, from information gathered about your online habits.

Sorry if I've shocked you ( and sorry for the long post ). Welcome to the Internet kiddos.

Oh, and by the way, Sony isn't going to use this information to pursue individuals like you, unless you too are part of the TRADE SECRET REVEALING, BACKWARDS ENGINEERING scene. Then, well, being part of the TRADE SECRET REVEALING, BACKWARDS ENGINEERING scene is technically illegal, and they had a valid case against you anyway, no matter how many times you play your stupid game of "your court has neither authority or jurisdiction in this matter." This is all strictly business, and unless you aren't Joe Blow, in the scope of this action, Sony doesn't care about you.

Well said. It always surprises me how those simple and obvious realities so quickly escape the comprehension of some.

 

[JDKJ]

Isn't that out of any one judge's jurisdiction?

No, it's not. Not if the information sought is contained within the United States of America. Any judge, in any court in the U.S., can give you a subpoena to go digging for information anywhere in the U.S.

 

[Doctor Glocktor]

geez people this only being used as EVIDENCE. Their not even doing anything about the people they have info on (yet). And even if they did, they would be in the right, its their service and they should do the best to protect it from thieves and people ruining games due to hacks.

Oh and it has already hurt sony, ala the killzone 3 leak. So yeah kinda an issue they should deal with.

The playstation 3 is not a service. It is property owned by the person who bought it, and that person has the right to do whatever the Hell they want with it.

This is absolutely retarded.

 

[Asehujiko]

This is turning out to be better than I expected. I thought the weak willed jury would rule that PS3s belong to the people who buy the right to use them. Or something of that matter. But now with this information, we can hopefully quash PS3 pirates.

Fun fact: Not everybody who viewed Geohotz youtube channel or twitter is a pirate, uses jailbreaks for other purposes, owns a ps3 or even any other sony product. One of his videos|(which is criminal to watch) was posted right here [http://www.escapistmagazine.com/news/view/107733-Sued-PS3-Hacker-GeoHot-Responds-With-Rap].

 

[Illyasviel]

Well said. It always surprises me how those simple and obvious realities so quickly escape the comprehension of some.

Thank you. It is rather surprising isn't it.

To the rest of you, let's take a look at my inbox for some real problems.

Ever sent someone a link to a copyrighted YouTube video? Of course: Everybody has. And now the US Government seems to think that means it can put us in prison.

Bryan McCarthy ran a website, channelsurfing.net, that linked to various websites where you could watch online streams of TV shows and sports networks. A couple months ago, the government seized his domain name and just today they arrested him for criminal copyright infringement.

Skype, BlackBerry, and other Internet communications services are under attack! The Obama administration and the FBI are pushing legislation that would ban online communications technologies like these unless their developers make it easy for the government to wiretap them.

The Communications Assistance for Law Enforcement Act (CALEA) requires telecom companies to make it possible for the government wiretap their networks. Now Obama and law enforcement want to expand CALEA to cover all online communications technologies, including peer-to-peer and social networking apps. The New York Times says the law would even include making sure the government could intercept and unscramble encrypted messages.

This "tragically unjust, dick move, by evil, evil Sony" "news" is sensationalist piss.