Justice League Director's Cut announced for HBO Max.

Casual Shinji

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At least now people can finally stop talking about it.

Whatever shitty quality it has will obviously not be Zack Snyder's fault though... right?
 

Samtemdo8

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I'm gonna enjoy Henry Cavill being Superman for the last time until he's replaced by someone else.
 

immortalfrieza

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Unless this cut can make the extremely lackluster bad guy nobody anywhere ever heard of good, make the Justice League actually useful and competent, and most importantly have the League have a purpose besides "bring Superman back to life so he can fix everything while the rest of the team do nothing important" no amount of deleted scenes can fix Justice League.

Even if this somehow makes Justice League good I'm really really disgusted by the very bad precedent that this might set. If this works why not just frequently make really terrible half assed first versions of movies, rake in the cash, and then bring out the second version that's actually good that they should have had the first time and rake in even more money? There's businesses listening to their customers and then there's exploiting them.
 
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Dwarvenhobble

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At least now people can finally stop talking about it.

Whatever shitty quality it has will obviously not be Zack Snyder's fault though... right?
Like that will stop people talking about it.

If it's bad it will be a "Don't listen to the fans" cry from certain media pundits for years to come who have for some reason I can't figure out tried to present the Snyder cut as part of the "Culture War" thus only bad people support it so it will be rolled out by media pundits for years to come "Oh you want this thing in media or want these changes made? Remember the Snyder Cut this is why big companies should never listen to you."

Then there will be the media pundits who were against it who see this as a fearful sign of their increasing irrelevance and loss of power to influence the industry when compared to fans power to organise and speak more directly to studios now.

If it's Good you'll still have some critics panning it because they opposed it.

Worse if fans like it and critics hate it you'll have a lot of pieces about why the fans are awful and why there is the critic / fan divide and probably stuff about how fans are toxic and shouldn't be listened to.

I mean there are still GARMZ JURNALIZTS who claim fans who objected to the ending of Mass Effect 3 initially were all Toxic hatemongers who Bioware surrendered to and inspired future cases. I'm sure some of the more deranged ones even say Bioware trying to improve the ending of Mass Effect 3 is part of the reason Donald Trump got elected.
 

Buyetyen

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Even if this somehow makes Justice League good I'm really really disgusted by the very bad precedent that this might set. If this works why not just frequently make really terrible half assed first versions of movies, rake in the cash, and then bring out the second version that's actually good that they should have had the first time and rake in even more money? There's businesses listening to their customers and then there's exploiting them.
This is more or less the playbook for AAA game publishers these days, so not that far-fetched. That would be a pretty miserable development. On the other hand, that's an awful lot of extra moving parts to what is already a complex process in an industry with more unions than game development. And considering the way word of mouth can sink a feature, it might be considered too much risk for not enough reward.
 

Dwarvenhobble

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This is more or less the playbook for AAA game publishers these days, so not that far-fetched. That would be a pretty miserable development. On the other hand, that's an awful lot of extra moving parts to what is already a complex process in an industry with more unions than game development. And considering the way word of mouth can sink a feature, it might be considered too much risk for not enough reward.
You have to remember Cats came to cinemas with unfinished CGI and had to be patched.

Films getting patches is literally a thing now.

Hell they did it sort of with Avengers Endgame too by adding in the part complete Hulk Scene near the end of the films initial run.

It's not like there aren't already even cases of it happening in film releases with Directors Cuts sometimes coming a bit after the theatrical cut Home video release.
 

MrCalavera

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Even if this somehow makes Justice League good I'm really really disgusted by the very bad precedent that this might set. If this works why not just frequently make really terrible half assed first versions of movies, rake in the cash, and then bring out the second version that's actually good that they should have had the first time and rake in even more money? There's businesses listening to their customers and then there's exploiting them.
Already set:
Now we wait for the Lucas Cut of "The Rise Of Skywalker" and Wright Cut of "Ant-Man".

Oh. Wait. No one cares about "Ant-Man"...
 
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Dalisclock

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Schrodinger's cuts are always better before you see them. Movie science is different that way.
The most powerful thing in Culture is potential. Anything that could be or could have been is almost always far better then what we end up experiencing. Yes, there's the very rare experience where the thing ends up meeting or exceeding the anticipation/potential(not counting when expectations are super fucking low so just not shitting the bed gets applause) but normally what you had in your head as the perfect thing will never be what you actually get. Especially considering everyone's idea of what makes a thing "Perfect" is different.

On a similar note, apparently some SW fans are emboldened by this.


Because apparently there's a number of people who really felt the problem with Revenge of the Sith was that it wasn't 4 HOURS LONG!

I question how many of these people have watched a 3 hour, let alone 4 hour movie. Because I've seen a couple really long movies and the ones I liked I liked despite how long they are, not because of it. The extended/Alan Smithee cut(That Lynch disowned) of DUNE does indeed have more stuff in it and some of it makes the movie more interesting, but at the cost of the pacing dragging to a crawl.

I'm not even going to get into the very important fact that Lucas doesn't own Star Wars anymore because it was sold to Disney and unlike Justice Leauge, ROTS is 15 years old at this point and anything more then just throwing all the existing footage(regardless of how finished it is) into a film and dumping it on Disney + is probably not gonna be feasible at this point.
 
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XsjadoBlayde

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Just realised I haven't even seen the original cut yet either. And still haven't any pull to do so. Something about those trailer clips of the final CGI battle is so extremely off-putting, such ugly meaningless weightless nonsense, that I wrote it off completely from that alone.
Even the large war battle in Avengers Endgame, while visually less ugly, is still messy weightless CGI nonsense where my brain turns off, going "none of this is real, it'll be fiiine, everything will sort itself out anyway." It all gets a bit samey after the 100th laser battle. Nothing new or inspiring to find. Anyway, the point was that justice league had an especially awful looking version of that.
 

Bob_McMillan

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Am I the only one confused why this is coming out on HBO Max instead of DC Universe??? Or is DC Universe dead already?

Anyway, as I see it, all they can really do is change up the story and maybe add a few action scenes back in. JL was just a plain boring movie with maybe one action scene that I truly remember, so I honestly doubt a Snyder cut will do anything for me. Unless they can somehow use CGI to get anywhere near the level of the Batman warehouse scene from Batman v Superman (aka the only thing worth watching in that movie).
 

Samtemdo8

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Already set:
Now we wait for the Lucas Cut of "The Rise Of Skywalker" and Wright Cut of "Ant-Man".

Oh. Wait. No one cares about "Ant-Man"...
You mean the Theatrical cut of the Original Trilogy and not the Special Editions of 97?
 

Eacaraxe

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The extended/Alan Smithee cut(That Lynch disowned) of DUNE does indeed have more stuff in it and some of it makes the movie more interesting, but at the cost of the pacing dragging to a crawl.
I...don't necessarily feel that's the best possible comparison to draw. Dune being one of those written works that has so much going on in the background and so many moving parts, especially when it comes to how crucial the link is between exposition on Arrakis' ecosystem and the books' greater narrative, that adapting it to an audiovisual work and being coherent alone is a Herculean task of which most writers wouldn't be capable. The best we've gotten, and the best we're likely to get counting the movie currently in projection (about which I am not optimistic), was the 2000 miniseries and that clocked in at five hours.
 

Dalisclock

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I...don't necessarily feel that's the best possible comparison to draw. Dune being one of those written works that has so much going on in the background and so many moving parts, especially when it comes to how crucial the link is between exposition on Arrakis' ecosystem and the books' greater narrative, that adapting it to an audiovisual work and being coherent alone is a Herculean task of which most writers wouldn't be capable. The best we've gotten, and the best we're likely to get counting the movie currently in projection (about which I am not optimistic), was the 2000 miniseries and that clocked in at five hours.
Yeah, that was the best example I could think of an extended cut that adds a lot more running time but doesn't really help the movie. Maybe the Apocolypse Now Redux owuld have been better?
 

happyninja42

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Worse if fans like it and critics hate it you'll have a lot of pieces about why the fans are awful and why there is the critic / fan divide and probably stuff about how fans are toxic and shouldn't be listened to.
Well, fans ARE toxic a lot of the time regarding these properties. Harassing, abusing, and threatening other human beings for the ATROCITY of making a fictional story in a way they didn't like.

**The following is pure speculation**
And while this is pure speculation on my part, it's my personal feelings that the suicide of Zack's daughter, was probably, at least in part, fueled by shitbag fans who can't separate their obsession with fictional products from reality. And that they probably gave her so much shit because "your dad's a fucking hack who DESTROYED batman and superman!" that she got tired of it. And I don't think that's a very big leap personally. We know from previous actors, like the guy who voiced JarJar, that the amount of hate people think is totally justified to throw at a stranger, can drive them to contemplate suicide. And teenagers are already in a high risk for suicide due to social pressures, and that social network technology makes it a lot easier for bullies to be bullies. It wouldn't surprise me at all to learn that his daughter, already emotionally shaky due to just simply being a teenager, possibly got tired of all the normal ridicule she might've endured, AND fanboy hate, that she did what she did.
**The proceeding is pure speculation**
So yeah, saying fans can be toxic, and be a problem, is a perfectly valid criticism. Even discounting my above statement, you just have to look at how a lot of them behave to know that's true.
 

Dwarvenhobble

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Well, fans ARE toxic a lot of the time regarding these properties. Harassing, abusing, and threatening other human beings for the ATROCITY of making a fictional story in a way they didn't like.

**The following is pure speculation**
And while this is pure speculation on my part, it's my personal feelings that the suicide of Zack's daughter, was probably, at least in part, fueled by shitbag fans who can't separate their obsession with fictional products from reality. And that they probably gave her so much shit because "your dad's a fucking hack who DESTROYED batman and superman!" that she got tired of it. And I don't think that's a very big leap personally. We know from previous actors, like the guy who voiced JarJar, that the amount of hate people think is totally justified to throw at a stranger, can drive them to contemplate suicide. And teenagers are already in a high risk for suicide due to social pressures, and that social network technology makes it a lot easier for bullies to be bullies. It wouldn't surprise me at all to learn that his daughter, already emotionally shaky due to just simply being a teenager, possibly got tired of all the normal ridicule she might've endured, AND fanboy hate, that she did what she did.
**The proceeding is pure speculation**
So yeah, saying fans can be toxic, and be a problem, is a perfectly valid criticism. Even discounting my above statement, you just have to look at how a lot of them behave to know that's true.
You mean like Marvel 'fans' did to Joss Whedon?




The people who want the Snyder cut likely aren't the ones who harassed his teenage daughter (if she was being harassed, we don't know the full story)
 

happyninja42

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You mean like Marvel 'fans' did to Joss Whedon?




The people who want the Snyder cut likely aren't the ones who harassed his teenage daughter (if she was being harassed, we don't know the full story)
I didn't say I was talking about only the fans who want the snider cut. I just said fans in general can be toxic, which they can be. And yes I know we don't know the story, which is why i covered my statement with "this is speculation" warnings. But it's not out of the realm of possibility, given we have documented cases (one just a week ago of a female wrestler on some reality tv show) of people being driven to suicide due to social media harassment, and we know teenagers are especially susceptible to it, and we know that nerds can be incredibly hostile to people they think had any connection to something they feel was "ruined". All 3 of those being together in one situation isn't that big of a stretch to me. Again, I don't know it for sure, but considering OTHER people in similar nerd franchises, were harrassed to the point of near suicide and social isolation/mental instability, it's hardly a crazy speculation.
 

Gordon_4

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You mean like Marvel 'fans' did to Joss Whedon?




The people who want the Snyder cut likely aren't the ones who harassed his teenage daughter (if she was being harassed, we don't know the full story)
You know, for all that behaviour is just appalling, juvenile (I'm honestly shocked there's no mention of the bike sheds after school), and would probably be below contempt for the average school debate huckster; by my count about half of them are basically surprised pikachu about certain character turns in the movie. Others are sarcastic chancers under the delusion they're funny. A fair few are questioning Joss' own self-described credentials as a feminist writer in the context of aforementioned character turn with Black Widow and I count at least one example of what we in the Transformers fandom refer to as "RUINED FOREVER".

My point is that as mud slinging goes, this is pretty banal. Disrespectful as shit mind and I wouldn't blame him for giving anyone that talked to him in the pub that way a good slap across the chops. And if anyone did send Zack and Deborah's daughter - her name has never come up and I feel that's kind of shitty - messages to the tune of 'kill yourself because your dad ruined Superman' then fuck them, fuck the horse they rode in on and I hope they die miserable and alone with the weighty knowledge that they have behaved in a way that make Superman feel nought but shame.
 
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happyninja42

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My point is that as mud slinging goes, this is pretty banal.
Sure it seems banal, but the problem is quantity. I've heard people who are a social figure discuss this very topic. And it's not JUST that the comments can be hurtful, and sure, maybe you can shrug off the occasional "you're an asshole" comment from a random stranger. But when it's THOUSANDS of them, EVERY DAY, without any end in site, that's very hard for any human to just easily shrug off. Rantasmo, a youtube content provider, had a whole video about it, as have others, but his is the one I've seen most recently. But bottom line, sure one person making one comment is easy to ignore, but when it's an unending tide from every quarter, that effects the average human psyche. That kind of constant negative reinforcement is how people end up thinking "maybe I am a piece of shit. I mean everyone seems to think so, and they never stop telling me."

And if anyone did send Zack and Deborah's daughter - her name has never come up and I feel that's kind of shitty - messages to the tune of 'kill yourself because your dad ruined Superman' then fuck them, fuck the horse they rode in on and I hope they die miserable and alone with the weighty knowledge that they have behaved in a way that make Superman feel nought but shame.
I agree, they should all fuck off if they did it. And again, I don't know if they did, or if it had any impact on her making her choice to do that. But it's not without precedent. And it doesn't have to be literal lines of "you should kill yourself because your dad made a shitty movie". That's not how harassment works for people. It's a cumulative wave of negative reinforcement, that morphs in the person's head into a negative personal view, that often makes them decide to kill themselves, to not bother people anymore. Frequently the last messages from people on social media that commit suicide is some form of apology, in fact this kind of cryptic message is often what makes people take notice and go check on them, to find them dead. And when the person is a social figure, or even just tangentially tied to a social figure, it's not that big of a surprise to learn "oh look, her social history has a ton of people constantly giving her shit." And we have documented proof that fans of comics and other nerdy things, are more than capable, and happy to harass anyone, including children, if they feel "their childhood" was ruined, or some other such bullshit rationale.

Anyway, not trying to derail this thread any further for those who want to actually discuss the snyder cut. So I'll stop here.
 

PsychedelicDiamond

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I think it's needlessly polemical to assume backlash to Zack Snyder's movies played any part in Autumn Snyder's suicide. I think a lot of nasty things have been said about artists like Zack Snyder or Rian Johnson for their interpretations of popular properties and that should be spoken out against but I can't condone using the suicide of a person to do so.

What can be said is that the death of his daughter and him abandoning the projecteto grieve puts Snyder in a very sympathetic position for actually getting to finish it on his own terms now. On that note, I do find it in bad taste how David Ayer is trying to latch onto the outpour of sympathy and solidarity for Snyder to get another chance at Suicide Squad.
 
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