Kentaro Miura, creator of Berserk, has died at 54

Chimpzy

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Yes. (Although I don't think the rape horse actually gets to rape anyone in-panel, which is a small act of mercy given how rape-heavy Berserk is)
Guts intervenes in the nick of time, so yeh, no rape for rape horse, tho not for lack of trying. Also yes, while infamous, it's not the worst example of sexual violence in the series. Cough! Wyald! Cough! Trolls! Cough! "Elves"! Double Cough! Femto!
 
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Samtemdo8

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Yes. (Although I don't think the rape horse actually gets to rape anyone in-panel, which is a small act of mercy given how rape-heavy Berserk is)
I was more disturbed and heartbroken at the King of Midland's attempt to rape his own 16 year old daughter
 

Chimpzy

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Do I even want to know? Because there's only so many ways to interpret "Rape Horse" and knowing berserk, I doubt it's a clever name.
Well, I would suggest not looking up that chapter anywhere near the vicinity of anyone you don't want to do any explaining to.
 

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Ubell Blatt has an actual rape horse in the first chapter, the one in berserk was just a demonic spirit possessing a horse and turning it into some creepy uncanny valley demon that kinda looks like a horse, so it's more like a regular berserk demon that rapes and murders and eats everything it comes across, the horse itself was just like a normal horse before the spirits came at it.

I was more disturbed and heartbroken at the King of Midland's attempt to rape his own 16 year old daughter
They cut that entire subplot from the old anime adaptation so I was always confused about the harshness of the punishment meted to Griffith since in my eyes he was the most fitting knight of the kingdom for the princess. I guess it was my innocent youthful eyes back then not getting it or something I dunno, but when I finally read the manga it all clicked.
 

Samtemdo8

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Guts intervenes in the nick of time, so yeh, no rape for rape horse, tho not for lack of trying. Also yes, while infamous, it's not the worst example of sexual violence in the series. Cough! Wyald! Cough! Trolls! Cough! "Elves"! Double Cough! Femto!
Cough! The Beast of Darkness, which is Gut's own warped malice and psyche raping and eating Casca in his mind in some twisted venting of frustration and desire to get closer to Griffith !Cough
 

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I've never read or watched any of Berserk, so all I'm gonna say is that it is sad that he passed away at such relatively young age.
 

bluegate

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This made me panic-check to see if the guy drawing Vagabond was still alive.
 

Dreiko

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Vagabond has been in hiatus for so long I don't think that's ever continuing, the books it's based on ended forever ago so you can go read those if you wanna find the end to the story.

What I did was just go read slam dunk to get my fix of him after I got to the end lol.
 

bluegate

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Vagabond has been in hiatus for so long I don't think that's ever continuing, the books it's based on ended forever ago so you can go read those if you wanna find the end to the story.
I wasn't so much interested in the story as I was in the art actually.
 

Dreiko

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I wasn't so much interested in the story as I was in the art actually.
Haha then slam dunk is prolly good for you as well, it has that same manly art :D.
 

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Honestly I will say Miura's legacy is controversial to say the least. While his work was definitely a proof his dedication. Works like Goblin Slayer drew heavy inspiration from berserk and it had it's share of misogynistic ideals about female characters who serve as aeither a)objects that fawn over Goblin Slayer or B)As objects of sexualized violence. He may be a product of the boom of violent OVA anime and manga that favored machismo male leads, but his works don't really have a place in modern media without being called problematic
 

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He may be a product of the boom of violent OVA anime and manga that favored machismo male leads, but his works don't really have a place in modern media without being called problematic
So what? I don't like everything in the guys work either, but his manga has a place in modern media regardless, if it's problematic or not. You don't get to solely decide that, people do. Besides, you can have be something manly and be non-toxic about it. This is a North star was able to achieve this just fine it has been doing it for years. Now the original Manga and anime had its flaws with its female characters, but at least video games adaptions improved them. And there are plenty of anime/manga from that era (especially afterward) that have action girls that are the main leads and are written well or have a good/entertaining personality.
 

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I think if you find the sexual violence in either berserk or goblin slayer for that matter as objectifying that's way more on you than it's on the work lmao. It depends on what you go into it looking for. And yeah Berserk is about a hellish medieval world, being mysoginistic is like the 40th worst thing wrong with chars in that world. Even the good guys are kinda bad guys, that's like, the whole appeal of the story. It's a story with no heroes where the good guys lose in the end or become bad guys. Expecting sexual violence to be the one bad thing this world doesn't have doesn't make sense, it's like you have a special protected class of thing that is holy and can't be written about in the same ways other things can. Good art doesn't have to obey such trash restrictions and how influential and beloved berserk is speaks volumes to that.


And yeah people who would call things "problematic" unironically while unaware of the pathetic political connotations such an act carries are the exact sort of people who when they dislike a work, you know it's worth checking out.




Also it's interesting how much failure to grasp the point of berserk is on display here, that of not giving up and keeping up trying to live, even in such a terrible world. Asking for the world to be better doesn't fit, what fits is having the guts to keep moving forward. That's why berserk is so beloved, it gives people motivation and hope because it shows you that even in such a terrible world you can still try to live, so whatever ill you have going on in your life doesn't feel nearly as bad any more.

If you sanitize the world and take away some of the bad things of it, you take away a portion of how powerful of a motivating force the story is for all of the millions of fans worldwide.
 
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Really sad about this. Love Berserk, and pretty cut up that we're unlikely to see an ending to the story. I wanted that Griffith comeuppance, goddamnit!!
 

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Honestly I will say Miura's legacy is controversial to say the least. While his work was definitely a proof his dedication. Works like Goblin Slayer drew heavy inspiration from berserk and it had it's share of misogynistic ideals about female characters who serve as aeither a)objects that fawn over Goblin Slayer or B)As objects of sexualized violence. He may be a product of the boom of violent OVA anime and manga that favored machismo male leads, but his works don't really have a place in modern media without being called problematic

I fully agree that the female characters in Berserk are mishandled and lacking in terms of ability to fight and defend themselves. Casca, despite being described as a competent fighter, only holds her ground once in single combat. As a character, she is only interesting in regards to her relationship with other men - first Griffith then Guts. Farnese is likewise only interesting in regards to her character growth because of Guts. The women in the manga in general lack their own agency and are often very hopeless.

However it is absolutely ludicrous to blame Berserk for its imitators, or to even compare it with Goblin Slayer. Goblin Slayer is a juvenile fantasy manga. I wouldn't even call it dark fantasy. The world it is set in lacks bleakness, there are no overwhelming odds driving humanity to extinction, and humans are generally alright people. The only reason that Goblins are a problem is because they are underestimated.

The only grimdark element it has is the opening scene and the rape. But even then one has to be lacking in critical thought to say that its rape scene was inspired by Berserk. Compare the rape scene in goblin slayer to the one in Berserk, from the panelling, the angles and the tone. In Goblin Slayer the angles and design of the character are made deliberately titillating, and serve no narrative weight. In Berserk, the rape scene is horrifying, and Miura went to great lengths to not make it look sexual in any way. It evokes horror and hopelessness, and has great narrative value. The majority of the rest of the manga is about dealing with the aftermath of it, and it firmly establishes that the one that initiates it has lost any and all humanity they once had, and made the deal with the Godhand in full knowledge of what it entailed.

To say that Goblin Slayer draws some inspiration from Berserk has some truth in it. Berserk is a bit like Evangelion in the sense that everything that came after it borrows heavily from it. It is a cultural juggernaut. But to blame it for what boils down to an amateurish fantasy power trip manga showcases not only a lack of thought, but a critical lack of knowledge on the subject.
 

Dreiko

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I fully agree that the female characters in Berserk are mishandled and lacking in terms of ability to fight and defend themselves. Casca, despite being described as a competent fighter, only holds her ground once in single combat. As a character, she is only interesting in regards to her relationship with other men - first Griffith then Guts. Farnese is likewise only interesting in regards to her character growth because of Guts. The women in the manga in general lack their own agency and are often very hopeless.

However it is absolutely ludicrous to blame Berserk for its imitators, or to even compare it with Goblin Slayer. Goblin Slayer is a juvenile fantasy manga. I wouldn't even call it dark fantasy. The world it is set in lacks bleakness, there are no overwhelming odds driving humanity to extinction, and humans are generally alright people. The only reason that Goblins are a problem is because they are underestimated.

The only grimdark element it has is the opening scene and the rape. But even then one has to be lacking in critical thought to say that its rape scene was inspired by Berserk. Compare the rape scene in goblin slayer to the one in Berserk, from the panelling, the angles and the tone. In Goblin Slayer the angles and design of the character are made deliberately titillating, and serve no narrative weight. In Berserk, the rape scene is horrifying, and Miura went to great lengths to not make it look sexual in any way. It evokes horror and hopelessness, and has great narrative value. The majority of the rest of the manga is about dealing with the aftermath of it, and it firmly establishes that the one that initiates it has lost any and all humanity they once had, and made the deal with the Godhand in full knowledge of what it entailed.

To say that Goblin Slayer draws some inspiration from Berserk has some truth in it. Berserk is a bit like Evangelion in the sense that everything that came after it borrows heavily from it. It is a cultural juggernaut. But to blame it for what boils down to an amateurish fantasy power trip manga showcases not only a lack of thought, but a critical lack of knowledge on the subject.
Totally disagree, Schierke is incredibly capable and has agency and is able to do stuff Guts can't day and night. I dunno why people forget her, maybe cause she's young so they don't identify with her? Either way, I have heard this take a ton of times and it's irksome how consistently it forgets Schierke exists when she's like the main female protagonist for twice as long as Casca was and for about half of the duration of the entire manga.

Casca is competent for a woman, that's like her whole character arc, she's struggling to keep up with a world of savage men and demons, and yeah of course she'll have trouble doing that in such a world. The fact that she doesn't magically manage to one punch everything in her way because she's just that awesome is what makes the story interesting.

But yeah all in all this gives me sword art online vibes where people were like...imprinted upon Asuna so when she was sidelined for the vastly superior character of Sugu in the second season people lost their shit about it. I always found her boring while Sugu is my fav char in the series but even outside of her all the subsequent main heroines like Yuki and Shinon were so much more interesting, but some people still hate SAO because they just are stuck to Asuna like barnacles and if she isn't how they want her to be it doesn't matter what else that show has which is of value they'll still hate it. Like even the author called Asuna a little bit boring in an interview, that's kinda the point of the character, she's default nice and kind and competent. I don't think I was the only one who found her dull.



Goblin Slayer is legit a DnD campaign with a randy DM, it's fun for what it is but it's not really trying to give a deeper message, it's just really entertaining. Also my fav char in that series is the Lizardman bro, he's such a cool dude XD.
 
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Bartholen

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Vagabond has been in hiatus for so long I don't think that's ever continuing, the books it's based on ended forever ago so you can go read those if you wanna find the end to the story.

What I did was just go read slam dunk to get my fix of him after I got to the end lol.
You had me a bit worried there. Musashi, the original text Vagabond is based on, is literally my favorite book of all time, but I'd never heard it described as "books", plural. Went and checked, and the 1000-page hardback I own contains the whole story. It's probably less words in total than a single installment of ASOIAF. Just something I thought about.

I really surprise myself how optimistic I seem to be getting with age, but a part of me sees a certain possible light at the end of the tunnel here: I don't think it's unreasonable to infer that Miura's passion wasn't really in Berserk anymore. We were on that fucking boat for a solid decade, the completely inconsequential, 3-chapter mini-flashback arc took like an entire year to come out, Miura made that whole weird "Gigantomakhia" miniseries in between, then there's Duranki etc. It feels like I'm shitting on the guy when I say this, but I think there's a possibility that Miura himself might have been a bottleneck here. If he had full say on when a new chapter was supposed to go out, then someone else taking the reins might be a (welcome) change of pace in that regard.

I know it's wishful thinking, but a part of me can't help but hope that if there is someone worthy and understanding enough of Miura's vision to take over his work and see it finished, I'd honestly rather have that than leave the story unfinished. It's not like Berserk was an episodic series that went by an arc-by-arc basis. It's not like it had its heyday and then faded into obscurity: with things like Dark Souls gaining massive popularity Berserk might have been more famous than ever. I mean christ, there's a whole band (and quite a popular one too) in my country who basically make mostly tribute songs to Berserk. So leaving it unfinished would be akin to leaving the Sistine Chapel unfinished. This would, of course, rely on the fact that this "new Berserk" would actually be good. If it'd turn out Game of Thrones past season 5, then I'd be all for declaring it non-canon.

Part of me wondered about this as well for years, and with hindsight it seems more and more likely: Miura might have written himself into a dead end with how he chose the story to go, and just couldn't figure out how to move it into its desired conclusion in a natural way. He created such an intricate, incredibly complex tapestry with so many shades of morality and so many nuances that it would make even the best writer in the world balk. And unfortunately I think a lot of it has to do with Casca. You can't just have her overcome her horrific trauma in a short while. You can't just leave her on the elf island, cutting the female protagonist of the whole story completely out of the picture. You can't have her just go on a revenge quest against Griffith, because her relationship with Griffith is so incredibly twisted. To satisfyingly resolve the way Miura developed Casca in the story would require insanely nuanced writing and understanding of an incredibly complex topic that needs to be treated very, very carefully. And I think it's possible that he just couldn't figure it out, hence all the stalling on the boat and long hiatuses.
 
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Dreiko

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You had me a bit worried there. Musashi, the original text Vagabond is based on, is literally my favorite book of all time, but I'd never heard it described as "books", plural. Went and checked, and the 1000-page hardback I own contains the whole story. It's probably less words in total than a single installment of ASOIAF. Just something I thought about.

I really surprise myself how optimistic I seem to be getting with age, but a part of me sees a certain possible light at the end of the tunnel here: I don't think it's unreasonable to infer that Miura's passion wasn't really in Berserk anymore. We were on that fucking boat for a solid decade, the completely inconsequential, 3-chapter mini-flashback arc took like an entire year to come out, Miura made that whole weird "Gigantomakhia" miniseries in between, then there's Duranki etc. It feels like I'm shitting on the guy when I say this, but I think there's a possibility that Miura himself might have been a bottleneck here. If he had full say on when a new chapter was supposed to go out, then someone else taking the reins might be a (welcome) change of pace in that regard.

I know it's wishful thinking, but a part of me can't help but hope that if there is someone worthy and understanding enough of Miura's vision to take over his work and see it finished, I'd honestly rather have that than leave the story unfinished. It's not like Berserk was an episodic series that went by an arc-by-arc basis. It's not like it had its heyday and then faded into obscurity: with things like Dark Souls gaining massive popularity Berserk might have been more famous than ever. I mean christ, there's a whole band (and quite a popular one too) in my country who basically make mostly tribute songs to Berserk. So leaving it unfinished would be aking to leaving the Sistine Chapel unfinished. This would, of course, rely on the fact that this "new Berserk" would actually be good. If it'd turn out Game of Thrones past season 5, then I'd be all for declaring it non-canon.

Part of me wondered about this as well for years, and with hindsight it seems more and more likely: Miura might have written himself into a dead end with how he chose the story to go, and just couldn't figure out how to move it into its desired conclusion in a natural way. He created such an intricate, incredibly complex tapestry with so many shades of morality and so many nuances that it would make even the best writer in the world balk. And unfortunately I think a lot of it has to do with Casca. You can't just have her overcome her horrific trauma in a short while. You can't just leave her on the elf island, cutting the female protagonist of the whole story completely out of the picture. You can't have her just go on a revenge quest against Griffith, because her relationship with Griffith is so incredibly twisted. To satisfyingly resolve the way Miura developed Casca in the story would require insanely nuanced writing and understanding of an incredibly complex topic that needs to be treated very, very carefully. And I think it's possible that he just couldn't figure it out, hence all the stalling on the boat and long hiatuses.
Lol sorry about that, I just assumed it was more than one book cause it's a pretty long story, I just read about it in passing back forever ago so I had it in the back of my mind that it's a book adaption.




Berserk is this one huge hit that you can't really end in a satisfying way for everyone, it took a life of its own kinda so by the end it felt like it was too big of a burden to bear. I felt it losing its focus around the bit where Griffith came back, and Miura was doing all he could to just keep the torch lit past that. Hey, more dark souls reference just write themselves.


But I dunno, I feel weird about others continuing the story. It has been going so slow for so long anyways that I legit never expected it to actually end anyways. I think the risk of messing it up is too huge of an undertaking so if you attempted it you'd have to give it to some seasoned veteran who comes in and takes over with the guidance of the remaining team.