Kick-Ass 2: Did they go too far this time? (Spoilers)

[Leemaster777]

So, I saw Kick-Ass 2 yesterday. Short version: I liked it. Not quite as good as the last one, but I had a good time. Would definitely watch another one if they made it.

With that out of the way, I'd like to talk about a scene from the movie where... well, I think they went too far. (Last warning, I will be posting unmarked spoilers)

Specifically, I'm referring to the scene where Mother Fucker and his crew break into Night *****'s house, and attempt to rape her. I just think that scene was in ENTIRELY bad taste.

Yeah, I know they try to play it off as a joke since the Mother Fucker can't get it up, but the fact that they even went there in the first place really left a bad taste in my mouth. Playing the rape off as a joke like that is almost worse in a way.

I'd also like to make clear that on the subject of rape jokes in general... I don't really have an opinion. I'm not using this scene as evidence to support my cause or anything. I just tend to take these sort of things on a case-by-case basis. And in this case, I thought it was too much.

Am I being too sensitive in this case? Am I alone on this one?

 

[shrekfan246]

Am I being too sensitive in this case? Am I alone on this one?

Considering the other thread about the same scene, which was apparently played much more straight and graphically in the original comic, I could imagine you're not alone on this one.

I haven't seen the film yet though, so I don't know why I'm even posting in this thread.

Personally, I'm pretty easy to amuse, so playing it as a joke because it fails would probably make me snort rather than feel uncomfortable. By that token, I'll probably never read the comic, though.

 

[Leemaster777]

Am I being too sensitive in this case? Am I alone on this one?

Considering the other thread about the same scene, which was apparently played much more straight and graphically in the original comic, I could imagine you're not alone on this one.

I haven't seen the film yet though, so I don't know why I'm even posting in this thread.

Personally, I'm pretty easy to amuse, so playing it as a joke because it fails would probably make me snort rather than feel uncomfortable. By that token, I'll probably never read the comic, though.

...there was another thread about this?

*Proceeds to double-check recent threads again*

...dammit. I didn't realize there was already a thread about this. How did I miss that?

 

[Genocidicles]

I'll say what I said in the other thread:

The butt of the joke is the rapist, not the victim. So there's nothing wrong with it.

 

[Lieju]

You should look at who or what the joke is on.

I'll say what I said in the other thread:

The butt of the joke is the rapist, not the victim. So there's nothing wrong with it.

I haven't seen the movie, but from what I understand, the joke is that he can't get it up? So we are supposed to find it funny that he was unable to rape her? (Because obviously a 'real' man should always be ready to have sex, even when the other party is unwilling.)

I can't say it's the worst rape-joke I've seen, but it does seem kinda iffy to me. I don't in the first place find Erectile dysfunction funny in itself, as the indication is often that a man who isn't always ready for sex is not a real man.

 

[Diablo1099_v1legacy]

From what I've heard, the Comic was A LOT worse.
See, the first Kick Ass reworked huge parts of the comic to make it work better as a movie.
Long Story first, the Comic is much worse.

 

[Lionsfan]

You should look at who or what the joke is on.

I'll say what I said in the other thread:

The butt of the joke is the rapist, not the victim. So there's nothing wrong with it.

I haven't seen the movie, but from what I understand, the joke is that he can't get it up? So we are supposed to find it funny that he was unable to rape her? (Because obviously a 'real' man should always be ready to have sex, even when the other party is unwilling.)

I can't say it's the worst rape-joke I've seen, but it does seem kinda iffy to me. I don't in the first place find Erectile dysfunction funny in itself, as the indication is often that a man who isn't always ready for sex is not a real man.

I didn't think the joke was that he's not a *real man*.

The joke is, the guy himself. Here's this guy, wants to get revenge over his Dad's death, calls himself the world's first supervillain....but he dresses up in BDSM gear, calls himself the Mother-Fucker, and thinks that killing a dog is crossing the line. Then we get to the attempted rape scene, where he even says to the girl "you're about to feel some Evil Dick" or something, and nothing happens; he's not a supervillain, he's just a pathetic loser playing dress-up.

 

[CrimsonBlaze]

I feel that while the idea of rape was a touchy subject to put in a movie like Kick-Ass 2, the fact that the rapist was the butt of the joke and nothing more serious took place in terms of an attempted rape (i.e. stripping her naked, holding her down, having someone else rape her, etc.), I'd say that it wasn't anything to really merit outrage.

Heck, in Silent Hill, Pyramid Head completely undresses a woman while he held her up and proceeded to ripping her flesh off and chucking it towards the people going into a church; That was a lot more disturbing and graphic. On a more recent note, I felt that the implied sex scene in the first Kick-Ass movie where Dave and his then girlfriend are having sex in the alley was a lot more graphically detailed than the failed rape joke or even the implied sex scenes in Kick-Ass 2.

 

[Saladfork]

Well, my opinion is that there is no subject matter in the world that can't be joked about. Hell, I almost feel like the moral crusaders getting up in arms over a joke almost becomes part of the joke itself.

I've personally made jokes about such things as genocide and torture, and I have never heard a credible argument about why I shouldn't.

 

[Queen Michael]

In my opinion, no joke can ever go too far. I'll accept jokes about anything. But I do have full respect for people who disagree.

 

[Scolar Visari]

You're talking about a movie called "Kick-Ass", which has characters such as "Mother Fucker" and "Night *****" and heaps of gratuitous violence, and you're upset that a scene containing attempted rape is in bad taste?

 

[Montezuma's Lawyer]

Yes, you're over reacting.

The joke is at the expense of the rapist, not the victim.

It demeans the rapist, calm down.

 

[norashepard]

I do see where the joke kind of goes astray. It does use the ************ as the butt of the joke, playing him off as a loser who couldn't get it up to rape the girl. But then take that to it's conclusion, which is in fact that any non-loser, would have in fact been able to get it up, and would in fact, rape the girl.

Essentially the joke was "Ha ha, he can't rape her what a tool. Cool kids could totally rape her." Which, in my eyes at least, is sleazy and still manages to totally disregard the victim. I know I certainly had my reservations about that part of the movie.

 

[Fox12]

You should look at who or what the joke is on.

I'll say what I said in the other thread:

The butt of the joke is the rapist, not the victim. So there's nothing wrong with it.

I haven't seen the movie, but from what I understand, the joke is that he can't get it up? So we are supposed to find it funny that he was unable to rape her? (Because obviously a 'real' man should always be ready to have sex, even when the other party is unwilling.)

I can't say it's the worst rape-joke I've seen, but it does seem kinda iffy to me. I don't in the first place find Erectile dysfunction funny in itself, as the indication is often that a man who isn't always ready for sex is not a real man.

It's even worse, because they immediately beat the shit out of her. So the scene goes from incredibly dark, because of attempted rape, to really "funny" because he can't get it up. The problem is that it then becomes incredibly dark again, because they beat her up so bad that she has to stay in the hospital. It's the same problem I had with the death of Col. Stars and Stripes. They have a series of joke preceding a decapitation of a major character. There was an incredibly nauseating sense of mood whiplash, where the film wanted to have its cake and eat it too. It's like it wanted to be dark, but not TOO dark, after all, it's a comedy. The result was that it wasn't funny at all, it was just kind of disturbing. I wish the film had chosen a set mood, to be either dark or light hearted, instead of switching between the two in the middle of a single scene.

The first film had a good mix, with a little bit of drama mixed into the humor. For the most part it was funny, but when things got dark, the director wasn't scared to "go there." When a scene had a ton of blood mixed in witha Bannana Splits song, the resulting absurdity made for great laughs. The difference is that it knew when to play it safe, and when to put all the cards on the table. The fact that the movie was so light hearted made the dark moments really stand out, such as the torture scene.

The second film was held back because certain scenes didn't know whether to be dark or light hearted, and they just didn't work. That's why I think it fell JUST short of the original film, even though it's still great. That said, I think it's the best film of the year, hands down, warts and all.

I love how a goofy super hero comedy had better writing, better acting, better pacing, and better drama then Elysium, the supposedly dramatic intellectual Sci-Fi romp of the year. Looking forward to Kick Ass 3, if they can fix their problems with tone.

 

[Brown_Coat117]

The second film was held back because certain scenes didn't know whether to be dark or light hearted, and they just didn't work. That's why I think it fell JUST short of the original film, even though it's still great.

This exactly.

As far as the joke itself, it went too far will really depend on you point of view so there's is not much point in really discussing it other then to say that I didn't think it went too far given that the point of the joke was to make the rapist look like the pathetic piece of shit that all rapists truly are, however if was too much for you don't let anyone shame you into trying to change.

 

[Yuuki]

I don't really believe in giving the topic of rape "special treatment" compared to all the other horrific topics out there. Nobody is going to convince me whether murder better/worse worse than rape, or whether rape is better/worse than torture, etc.

I couldn't give two shits even if there was a rape scene in Kick Ass 2 that was taking the piss out of the VICTIM instead of the rapist because that is one of the purposes of the movie, to break boundaries on all fronts in terms of gore/realism/etc and go for shock value. I will treat it just like any other scene in the movie - if it adds any kind of value, it's fine.

Also can this thread please be merged with the other one? Don't need the exact same happening in two threads at once:
http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/18.825564-The-Kickass-2-rape-joke-Spoilers-Not-really

 

[EeveeElectro]

For those who are wondering, this is how it happens in the comic:

Spoiler: Spoilers obviously. Not brilliant quality, sorry.

I think, while still terrible, it could have been much worse. I don't see how beating her until she's hospitalized isn't getting mentioned much, if at all, but I suppose it's what you expect with such a violent film.

Bearing in mind, Katie is an innocent victim in this who's brought into it. The beef is between Kick-Ass and The ************ but she ends up being hurt too. She isn't even Kick Ass's girlfriend in the comic book which makes it worse in my opinion.

I suppose it depends on how easily offended someone is. It does take a lot to make me feel the way the comic did but it was interesting at the same time.

 

[Relish in Chaos]

I have nothing much to add, other than at least it?s better than the rape actually going ahead and being used as a plot device to show how evil the Mother Fucker is. I haven?t seen the film yet, though, so I can?t know whether or not I?ll find it funny. I have laughed at some pretty fucked-up things in the past, though.

Either way, it has been said that they?ve had to rework various parts of the original comic to make it more palatable for the general viewing public, such as the rape and dog death scenes (because killing an animal is apparently worse than killing a human), because it would be ?too dark and bring the tone down?. Which begs the question: why did Millar include those scenes in the first place if he figured they wouldn?t be included in the screen adaptation he?d be working on?

I mean, I don?t know much about Mark Millar or his works, other than the smattering of criticisms I?ve seen of him on internet forums. It does seem as if the Kick-Ass franchise(?) is entirely meant to be a shock-value parody of superhero comic tropes, contrasting the silliness of a teenager deciding to dress up in a wetsuit to fight crime like Spider-Man to the ultra-violence that would actually happen if anyone tried to do that in real-life?but then you have said teenager surviving attacks that should really kill him or at least turn him off to the idea of going vigilante again, and an eleven-year-old girl massacring an entire room of armed gangsters.