Kickstarter Video Project Attracts Misogynist Horde

[Vrex360]

The gaming community is no longer worth defending.

It isn't, it can honestly go fuck itself. Misogynist obnoxious little douchebags who spam and harass an innocent vlogger who has done nothing to harm anyone, apparently enraged by the idea of someone questioning women's treatment in gaming media, decided the best course of action should be misogynist comments and blatant attempts to intimidate her with graphic threats of rape?

Seriously fuck this behavior and anyone who thinks it's acceptable. I'm amazed how many people have made her the villain here or as I saw on the first page believing that she's part of the 'evil PC police' and that therefore e-intimidation is the only way to stop her. What really would happen if she made this video series?
Would people die?
Would the gaming community explode?
Would the economy collapse?

No, there would be a video series that questions video games portrayals of women. One that you don't have to pay attention to, one that won't effect you in any way and that has no bearing on your life. If the thought of that offends you to the point of believing that widespread hate campaigns and rape threats are essential then you seriously need to reconsider your priorities.

As far as the argument 'grah she stealinz monez for her site', a few things:
Anita Sarkessian does these videos for free, she has stated numerously that she doesn't put ads on her videos so she gets no ad revenue money for doing them. Her videos have been used as educational material in women's studies and universities. I myself got a good grade at UNI for referencing her work, she's got a Masters degree in media and social studies and a bachelor in communications. I'd say she's pretty qualified to do her job and I'd hardly say she's greedy either, if she has supporters who want to help her raise the money to get the licensing for video game footage or whatever else that she might need because she, again, refuses to put ads on her work then that's fine with me.
She's qualified to talk about it (for instance she spoke at a conference hosted by Bungie about women's representation in video games) and is being very reasonable, she certainly doesn't deserve rape threats or for her work to be considered 'terrorism'.

Hell you know who IS a E-begging scammer? The Amazing rapethreatening Athiest. He made that site 'free speech vids' demanding $20 0000 in donations and once the site was up it failed within a week because he didn't spend any money on the basic things like bandwidth and file space. So where did all that money go?
More importantly where was the vicious hate campaign against him?

I've watched, and liked, a lot of Anita's videos. She's for the most part very level headed and respectful, I don't know where her reputation of an insane man hater comes from. There were a few times where she goes overboard but her original 'Tropes versus Women' series and the ones about LEGO and 'The Hunger Games' are pretty damn well written and thought out videos. All she has ever done is address issues, she doesn't even actually direct a blame figure. In her recent 'Oscars and the Bechdel test' video she admits that a movie passing the Bechdel test doesn't mean its inherently a good movie or that a movie that doesn't pass it is a bad movie, just that there is an issue to be addressed.

All she is doing here is making a series of videos about some of the harmful stereotypes aimed at women in gaming. That's all and frankly it's not unreasonable to have a video series that addresses this stuff, if we acknowledge problems like harmful stereotypes in our media enough that we can identify them easily it might help game developers in the future avoid those mistakes and move forward.

This outrage never happened when she made the original 'Tropes versus women' series. It never happened when she first asked for donations about gender and toys (specifically LEGO). This is the first time mainstream outrage by mean spirited insecure fat neck bearded virgins happened to her and it was coincidently the first time she decided to tackle video games.

And that is why I reiterate what I said before, if this truly is 'the gaming community' then:

THE GAMING COMMUNITY CAN GO FUCK ITSELF

Because I can't imagine many self respecting women would be about to.

And god bless you Anita, never stop fighting the good fight.

 

[Furrama]

Not that the Escapist community is very... um... sensitive to this issue on the whole, but my goodness people. Some of you are as bad as some of the youtube commenters, calling her a slut, questioning and nitpicking everything possible in order to defraud, but where I stand there is really nothing to pick at here. I've seen every episode of her other show, and I don't agree with everything she says. Same as with MovieBob, same as with Yahtzee, they all tend to see issues where I don't at times. That's okay. That's a thing. But on the whole, thus far... she's pretty level headed and on the mark most of the time.

She has an opinion she wants to share, she's asking for money to help get it out there and get research material, and that's also fine. People do that. She's gotten her contribution and then some, so there will be even more episodes then there would have been originally, so yay for those of us who wanted this. ZeFrank also asked for money recently, and got a whole lot of it for something very similar. Very very very few people threw a fit over that. Making documentaries/web videos, drawing, painting, making music, it's all art and it's all work. It's not that much of a stretch to expect that people should get paid for their work and materials if they are good enough. Go up to a famous artist and ask him to draw you a picture for free, and then tell him he should do it because he loves it. He'll laugh in your face. On the whole, she didn't ask for all that much considering the quality of work she does, (if it had been for a professional outlet she would have been paid more than that). The fact that she got many times over what she asked for is a testament to the issue at hand.

This discussion has been bubbling along the issues of gaming for a long, long while now. It is something that shouldn't need to be said, but judging by the hate speech I've seen here and there, it clearly needs to be brought out in the open. Women are people, just like men, we have fantasies and hopes and dreams, just like men. We want to play along side men, together, without feeling left out or objectified. Let us all stand up, point out that there is a problem, and let us all work together to fix it.

 

[Khazoth]

I could name you female characters that aren't sexualized at all, and are taken quite seriously, but why don't you take a moment for me to name me off a couple of gay / transsexual male characters that are not..

*Gay for comedies sake

*Lack any personality other then being gay

*Are a character they stapled gay onto for the sake of generating more media attention. (Green Lantern is a good recent example of this)

All true, but that's not what's being discussed here. I just posted something to this effect- complaining about an existing issue does not mean you only care about that one issue. As a woman I am not happy with how women are generally portrayed in games. As a gay person I'm also not happy about how LGBT people tend to be represented. As neither a male or a transgendered person, I am unhappy with how gay/trans males are portrayed. Just as I fall into multiple categories, I am able to acknowledge multiple problems, and I don't think competing to see who has the biggest problems is helpful to anyone.

[small]Why can't we all just be nice to one another?[/small]

The problem isn't that she's ignoring it, the problem is that this is all anyone in the gaming community talks about. I'm sick of it. "Oh, hur hur women are sexualized men are pigs."

Faith, April Ryan, Jade, Samus Aran, Kerrigan, Alyx Vance, Both L4D Girls, Shaundi, Purna, etc.

I could go on but i'm sick of this discussion and so are a lot of people. Can we move on from boo hoo poor women? Anyone remember when one of GTA's controversies was that you could beat up women? Fun how women are above being the target of violence, eh?

 

[Eamar]

Epic snip of epicness

*Stands up and applauds* Bravo, sir, bravo. You actually know what you're talking about. Could have done without the "neckbearded virgins" insults at the end, but otherwise you make very valid, well thought-out points.

This part in particular could do with being highlighted:

This outrage never happened when she made the original 'Tropes versus women' series. It never happened when she first asked for donations about gender and toys (specifically LEGO). This is the first time mainstream outrage by mean spirited insecure [people] happened to her and it was coincidently the first time she decided to tackle video games.

It never ceases to amaze me how blind people are to this issue, and how they fail to realise that a lot of the behaviour in this community is not normal and is considered shocking by "outsiders". Thanks for pointing it out.

 

[Furrama]

Epic snip of epicness

*Stands up and applauds* Bravo, sir, bravo. You actually know what you're talking about. Could have done without the "neckbearded virgins" insults at the end, but otherwise you make very valid, well thought-out points.

This part in particular could do with being highlighted:

This outrage never happened when she made the original 'Tropes versus women' series. It never happened when she first asked for donations about gender and toys (specifically LEGO). This is the first time mainstream outrage by mean spirited insecure [people] happened to her and it was coincidently the first time she decided to tackle video games.

It never ceases to amaze me how blind people are to this issue, and how they fail to realise that a lot of the behaviour in this community is not normal and is considered shocking by "outsiders". Thanks for pointing it out.

A-friggen-men. I agree with your statements. It feels good to know I'm not alone in a sea of bad behavior.

 

[Khazoth]

Also, I would like to introduce this forum to a revolutionary thought.

Youtube Community =/= Gaming Community.

Revolutionary thinking, I know.

 

[Eamar]

The problem isn't that she's ignoring it, the problem is that this is all anyone in the gaming community talks about. I'm sick of it. "Oh, hur hur women are sexualized men are pigs."

Faith, April Ryan, Jade, Samus Aran, Kerrigan, Alyx Vance, Both L4D Girls, Shaundi, Purna, etc.

I could go on but i'm sick of this discussion and so are a lot of people. Can we move on from boo hoo poor women? Anyone remember when one of GTA's controversies was that you could beat up women? Fun how women are above being the target of violence, eh?

Come now, this doesn't have to be about insulting those who have a problem with the portrayal of women. I for one consider the idea that women should never be the enemies in games inherently sexist, and so do most of the feminists I've seen on here recently. Likewise, no feminist worth her salt is going to say anything like "men are pigs." That's just as bad as "women are sluts" or something.

The way to make people talk about the things you want to talk about is to bring it up more often. But not in such a way that you insult other people who also have valid complaints.

If I went around saying "yeah, men get a raw deal sometimes but boo hoo poor men stop talking about it and address MY problems", I'd not be well received, and understandably so. You see what I'm saying?

I sympathise with you, I really do, and I agree this gets more exposure than some other issues. Based on the responses it gets from a lot of people I'd say there's still a way to go, but you obviously disagree. But there's really no need to belittle people's arguments or insult them.

 

[orangeban]

Right, here's why dealing with stereotypes facing women is a bigger issue than stereotypes facing men. Note, I'm not saying stereotypes around men aren't a bad thing, it's really to do with the reasons these stereotypes exist.

The stereotypes about men can be sorted into two major categories

1) Super manly
2) Not manly

These stereotypes revolve around this idea of men being the ultimate ideal. Manly stereotypes of men are all about "THE ULTIMATE MAN" and how God damn awesome he is. Marcus Fenix, the hordes of Call of Duty tough guy protagonists, Master Chief, Adam Jensen, and so on. These super manly men are generally protagonists.

Think about non-manly stereotypes.

- The gay man. Since being straight is a "MANLY" thing, this guy's normally played for laughs. Often, note how stereotypical gay men are often very feminine in their actions and mannerisms. They aren't straight, therefore they aren't MEN, therefore they should act like women.

- The nerd. Also played for laughs. He's a weakling, he's usually not the protagonist (think of Snake and Otacon).

- The evil guy. Your stereotypical evil wizard, what isn't he? Young, strong, big, surrounded by women, charging into battle swinging a sword. The whole idea of soldiers being more noble and honourable than wizards stems from MANLINESS being desired above all else and spells not being MANLY. This is partly why wizards are so often villains and kings so often good guys.

The stereotypes about women can also be sorted into two major categories.

1) Sexy
2) Burly

The sexy women are designed to be appealing to men. That's basically their only purpose, they're eye candy. Women who's only expected role is to look pretty. This is also where you get the whole "damsel in distress" thing, the hero's reward is a pretty woman.

The burly women are women is a relatively new stereotype I feel. These are women who are as MANLY as possible, it's all about basically making women men since men are the best right?

Basically, the only good is the MAN. Therefore, everything that isn't a man is inferior (or is not useful to men, see "sexy"), and this includes men who don't live up to standards of manliness.

Men are only inferior when they're not MANLY enough, women are always inferior and the best they can hope is to be sexy (since, to the straight "MANLY" man, this is something that can be done by men) or as much like men as possible.

Edit: As to my categories, notice how the different tropes dealt with by the Kickstarter fit rather neatly into them (apart from the voodoo priestess one, but that's actually covered under a separate category I didn't mention of "It's foreign, i.e. strange and barbaric and different i.e. they're allowed to do crazy stuff).

The sexy stereotype - Damsel in Distress - Video #1
The Fighting F#@k Toy - Video #2
The Sexy Sidekick - Video #3
The Sexy Villainess - Video #4
Background Decoration - Video #5
Women as Reward - Video #7

The burly stereotype - Mrs. Male Character - Video #8
Unattractive Equals Evil - Video #9
Man with Boobs - Video #10

 

[Eamar]

snip

I appreciate your agreement You may want to add something to that post to avoid a low-content warning though.

 

[Khazoth]

You pretty much nailed it. Some games overdo the whole sexuality thing, but instead of ignoring it, both men and women make a fuss about it that leads to publicity. I would have never seen the Hitman trailer if there wasn't a big ass article on every gaming website. I wouldn't even know what DoA is if it didn't appear in every topic about sexualization of women, possibly because it's one of those 5 games that does so.

Yeah, I hadn't heard about Hitman until it was brought up on the Escapist. Remake the trailer with a bunch of transvestites and there won't really be a problem with the media masses.

Funny how that works all these years later huh?

 

[Angryman101]

She has an opinion she wants to share, she's asking for money to help get it out there and get research material, and that's also fine. People do that. She's gotten her contribution and then some, so there will be even more episodes then there would have been originally, so yay for those of us who wanted this. ZeFrank also asked for money recently, and got a whole lot of it for something very similar. Very very very few people threw a fit over that. Making documentaries/web videos, drawing, painting, making music, it's all art and it's all work. It's not that much of a stretch to expect that people should get paid for their work and materials if they are good enough. Go up to a famous artist and ask him to draw you a picture for free, and then tell him he should do it because he loves it. He'll laugh in your face. On the whole, she didn't ask for all that much considering the quality of work she does, (if it had been for a professional outlet she would have been paid more than that). The fact that she got many times over what she asked for is a testament to the issue at hand.

She now has over fifty thousand dollars to do some research on wikipedia and other free websites. She now has fifty THOUSAND dollars to do some dumb fucking web series that has been done COUNTLESS times before, for FREE.
I don't give enough of a shit about this to watch the series because 1. feminism makes my eyes voluntarily roll and 2. why the fuck do people care THIS MUCH about video games, but that fact fills me with disgust.

 

[ThunderCavalier]

So, is it just safe to say that we're all losers in this?

Because both sides seem to be acting irrationally.

 

[johnnnny guitar]

okay At first while I was reading this I was like why are people getting so upset I mean I dislike feminists most of the time but this is insane.
Then I clicked the video, these were the first words that came out of my mouth "OH NO IT'S YOU" seriously I can not stand her I've seen some of her other videos and she is everything that is wrong with modern feminism.

 

[General Vagueness]

you could've shortened this article to: This is the video 4chan picked to raid today
("raid" isn't really the right word, it fits more for an entire site, but that's what they say in the threads)

 

[Khazoth]

She now has fifty THOUSAND dollars

...Ow, my soul. I seriously think I felt a blood vessel pop when I read that. I think she has every right to do this web series but.. Exactly what is she going to spend that money on?

you could've shortened this article to: This is the video 4chan picked to raid today
("raid" isn't really the right word, it fits more for an entire site, but that's what they say in the threads)

Sexism gets more views

 

[Furrama]

She has an opinion she wants to share, she's asking for money to help get it out there and get research material, and that's also fine. People do that. She's gotten her contribution and then some, so there will be even more episodes then there would have been originally, so yay for those of us who wanted this. ZeFrank also asked for money recently, and got a whole lot of it for something very similar. Very very very few people threw a fit over that. Making documentaries/web videos, drawing, painting, making music, it's all art and it's all work. It's not that much of a stretch to expect that people should get paid for their work and materials if they are good enough. Go up to a famous artist and ask him to draw you a picture for free, and then tell him he should do it because he loves it. He'll laugh in your face. On the whole, she didn't ask for all that much considering the quality of work she does, (if it had been for a professional outlet she would have been paid more than that). The fact that she got many times over what she asked for is a testament to the issue at hand.

She now has over fifty thousand dollars to do some research on wikipedia and other free websites. She now has fifty THOUSAND dollars to do some dumb fucking web series that has been done COUNTLESS times before, for FREE.
I don't give enough of a shit about this to watch the series because 1. feminism makes my eyes voluntarily roll and 2. why the fuck do people care THIS MUCH about video games, but that fact fills me with disgust.

She asked for 6,000. She's putting it up for everyone to watch for free. I can easily see where 6,000 dollars would go in the production she described. Games, platforms she might not have, big heavy books and other sources that don't run cheap, lights, upkeep on the camera, software, lots of things. Plus the hours of work one would put into the the thing. That much for what she wants to do makes sense with market standards.

People... people gave her more than that. A sign of solidarity perhaps, but they gave it to her. Don't be mad at her for getting far more than she asked for. That's like getting mad at a street performer for getting a few extra $50 dollars put in his hat by some kindly strangers who liked his work.

And it's not 50,000 anymore. It's 70,893. And growing by the hundreds every other refresh.

As far as your stance on feminism, I'm sorry you feel that way. True feminism strives for equality for both men and women, and I'm sorry that you don't want that. As far as why people care so much about video games? I dunno, why are you commenting on a gaming website?

 

[maddawg IAJI]

Edit: Kay guys, no-one else can bring anything new the table in telling me what the video does wrong. For the love of all the gods, stop quoting me, I simply don't care any more, you aren't adding anything.

Wow. Talk about one sided journalism. For a rational view of why people are against this For a reason why people are against this who aren't misogynistic pricks, that isn't just picking youtube comments, which are vile on every subject under the sun, and calling it news, here [Edit:while it makes some valid points, take it with a grain of salt, as ForeverPandering is opinionated and does enjoy bitching and making fun of people. But still, he gives some valid non-misogynist points against the project, though his ""Females have ample and adequate representation in video games" bit is BS, ignore that]:

I'm not here to really talk about what you said, rather on the video you posted. If you haven't realized yet, that video is completely inaccurate on most of the information it gives out. Take the very beginning for example, where he mentions that this is a bad idea for a documentary and he would be right if it was not for one major factor, this is not a documentary. This is a critique of popular culture. While documentaries need to focus on both sides of the coin, critique does not. Critique is all about finding fault and problems within a scenario. Yahtzee is a critic, MovieBob writes critiques, Micheal Moore is a critic. The History Channel however, mostly does documentaries.

He also talks about how the main consumers of video games are 15-25 year old males. They're aren't. The average consumer is in their 30s, has been playing on and off since 1990 and there are more adult female gamers over the age of 18 then there are teenage male gamers 17 or younger. (Source:http://www.theesa.com/facts/index.asp). The idea of Gamers being mostly male has been becoming less and less true as years have passed, but I don't really think t

Lastly, I don't believe I have ever heard of an anti-femenist reason given for Madison Paige and I've never even heard of a pro or anti complaint for the other 3 and due to the fact that I got work in about 45 minutes, I can't really spend a lot of time researching it. So for the sake of arguments, I'm just gonna focus on Madison from Heavy Rain.

Now, from what I'm beginning to see here from the few sources that have come up, the majority of the complaints against Madison are not about the character. Rather, they are for the scenarios she is forced into, namely sexual assault, at least 2 of these cases if I remember correctly, 3 if you count the DLC and a possible 4th if you wish to count her dream sequence where she is attacked while wearing nothing but a tank top and panties. I would not call the whole "Almost every action sequence she is in is used to show off her body or to place her in a scenario where she could be sexually assaulted" as an "asinine reason."
(Source:http://borderhouseblog.com/?p=1691 and http://honestcake.wordpress.com/2010/03/03/assault-is-not-sexy-zoo-today/)

 

[Kahunaburger]

So, is it just safe to say that we're all losers in this?

Because both sides seem to be acting irrationally.

I dunno, this is what the conversation looks like from my end.

A: Hey, world, here is my documentary kickstarter.
B: Sweet, have some money.
C: How dare you analyze things I like! [sexism]
A: Cool, I funded the doc. Thanks, kickstarters!
C: [sexism] [antisemitism] [threats]
A: Whoa, not cool with the harassment, guys.
B: Well, this certainly proves we need more discussion of sexism in games - here's even more money!
A: Thanks, kickstarters!

Repeat the last few steps as necessary.

 

[Khazoth]

So, is it just safe to say that we're all losers in this?

Because both sides seem to be acting irrationally.

I dunno, this is what the conversation looks like from my end.
A: Hey, world, here is my documentary kickstarter.
B: Sweet, have some money.
C: How dare you analyze things I like! [sexism]
A: Cool, I funded the doc. Thanks, kickstarters!
C: [sexism] [antisemitism] [threats]
A: Whoa, not cool with the harassment, guys.
B: Well, this certainly proves we need more discussion of sexism in games - here's even more money!
A: Thanks, kickstarters!

Repeat the last few steps as necessary.

If this qualifies as her 'losing' I really wanna lose like her all the way to the casinos in vegas.

 

[Angryman101]

*sigh*

Then show me the webseries that defines and explains all the tropes she wants to cover in her series with examples of both offenders as well as games which avoid those topics at all. Also, they better include the origin of the trope.

Also, your last question is fucking stupid. Why do people care about anything that is not needed for survival? People care about video games because they are actually a big part of our society, they are an artistic as an educational medium which suffers from the same problems other media suffer. Maybe even more because people like you tend to excuse everything with "it's just a game for boys so they are allowed to depict women in those tropes".

Go onto 'tvtropes.com' and read the pages about female characters. You will get literally everything you need to know. And nobody who wrote those was paid. Then google 'female representation in video games', look of the video section, and take your pick. Everything there will have the same points she is raising.
I think anybody who passively consumes entertainment without contributing themselves before becoming passionate about it is trash. They are what is wrong with society, not 'female misrepresentation.' It makes me sick.